Why are liberals voting for Kerry??

[tobinentinc]

I need some kind of reason why democrats are going to be voting for kerry in the 04. Liberals of the army please tell me.

[Big Train]

Crickets chirping.....

I actually am curious myself WHY he would get anyones vote, other than him not being George Bush.

[ELVIS]

That's the only reason...

[Cathedral]

Why?

I'm not a Liberal, but i can tell you in one word.

HATE.....

[steve]

I'd vote for my college-era cum-stained SOCK over Bush.

I'd vote for your mom if she had a chance of winning. But hey, the reasons why are far too personal for this public message board.

Reason number 1: He reads.
Reason number 2: I agree with most of his political stances, except for the fact that he's being too conservative on the whole marriage for gays issue.

I have many more, but I work for a living.

...Why are YOU voting for the illiterate, war-mongering, lazy, incompetent, Al Queda enabler enabling, fool Bush?
Or are you not and I just reading in between the pixels here...

[FORD]

Originally posted by steve

...Why are YOU voting for the illiterate, war-mongering, lazy, incompetent, fool Bush?

Because Mush Limpdick told them to.

[wraytw]

Originally posted by FORD
Because Mush Limpdick told them to.

Must be those chips that they implanted in our brains.

[livingproof]

It's sad when the first argument anyone has against Bush is that he can't read. If there were really some issues that were being handled wrong by Bush, you'd think that those would be first the list other than "he's dumb".

So what if he sucks at delivering speeches? If being a great public speaker is the most important element of a great President to you, then the problem is not Bush. It's the average liberal American who thinks he/she knows how the Presidency works. You don't know shit, I don't know shit. They're in the office, they know how it works.

America has taken free speech to the point of disrespect. Some deserve disrespect, I won't argue with that. But the office of the Presidency is a sacred thing, and people say whatever they want about it. It's ridiculous how people have lost all respect for anything. If you want to disagree with what the President is doing, then present it in a sense that relates to his position. Making personal attacks is the lowest form of rebuttal and only dishes the disrespect back toward you because now everyone thinks you're just a bitter douchebag who had a boner for Gore.

In a time where the world is very unstable and our country is under constant threat, I'd much rather have a cat in office who has kept us safe and terrorist-attack-free since September 11th. I would never put a new face in office when there is so much going on that it would be much too much to learn in the short amount of time that he would need to. I want a cat who knows what's been going on.

[Big Train]

very well stated...welcome aboard..

[Mezro]

Originally posted by tobinentinc
I need some kind of reason why democrats are going to be voting for kerry in the 04. Liberals of the army please tell me.

The "anybody but Bush" reason pretty much sums up why I'll vote for Kerry.

Mezro...no problem with Republicans..just don't like GWB and his gaggle of two-faced cronies...

[FORD]

Junior doesn't have a clue what's going on. He's admitted as much. He doesn't read newspapers. He doesn't watch TV news - not even FAUX. All he "knows" about what is going on in the world is filtered to him from his PNAC advisers.

Or in other words, Junior knows even less than you do. And what's worse is that he doesn't seem to give a shit that he's misinformed.

[Big Train]

The "anybody but Bush" reason pretty much sums up why I'll vote for Kerry.

By that logic, why not vote for Nader? You would at least help a 3rd party off the ground and give you 3 options next time around.

[FORD]

Originally posted by Big Train
The "anybody but Bush" reason pretty much sums up why I'll vote for Kerry.

By that logic, why not vote for Nader? You would at least help a 3rd party off the ground and give you 3 options next time around.

If Junior wins, there won't be ANY options next time around. :(

[Betty Bush III]

OK Oliver Stone-er. Heard any good conspiracy theories lately? Bush is president, not King.

[FORD]

Originally posted by Betty Bush III
OK Oliver Stone-er. Heard any good conspiracy theories lately? Bush is president, not King.

Actually, he's neither. But he thinks he's a king. And as long as neither Congress or the Courts will challenge his insane warmongering, he might as well be.

Now go back to installing your RFID chips in the razors......

[Betty Bush III]

Dear Ford,

In regards to WMD in Iraq, the faulty proof was supplied by Russian intelligence, British intelligence, US intelligence, and the mouth of Willy Clinton to the ear of Dubya Bush during the transition of office. And it is also the position of the 911 comission that Bush did not lie. Granted, Bush and many Americans have been itching to kick somebody's ass in the Middle east, as we've been doing for the past three administrations on a lesser scale. "containment" they call it. I believe the troops should come home from their job of "keeping the peace," however I don't blame the administration for bitch slapping sadamy doucheinne once and for all. Why waste the effort containing this prick?

PS: Were you bitching about Clinton when he bombed Belgrade for absolutely no valid reason?

[Warham]

Liberals can't give you a reason they would vote for Kerry, because Kerry's never given anybody a reason to vote for him.

They only are voting for Kerry because they hate Bush.

That's why I can't wait until the debates. I wanna hear what Kerry's going to do about terrorism if he's elected. Maybe he'll ask the Germans and French for assistance.

[Betty Bush III]

FORD,
Ok I get it now, It's a conspiracy between Congress, the administration, the courts, the CIA, the FBI, the Oil companies, and the Boy Scouts of America.

Thanks for finally setting me straight on this one.

PS: What if the Administration already installed an RFID chip in your brain, they could track you going back and forth between the toilet and the computer.

[Betty Bush III]

Warham,

Kerry has already said that he would prosecute terrorists in the criminal courts rather than the military courts. That way he can make sure they receive a fair trial like OJ Simpson.

Just to be clear, I greatly admire Kerry for his bravery and service, I just can't vote for someone who is surrounded by socialist idiots like Ted Kennedy, Bill, and Hillary.

[Mezro]

Originally posted by Big Train
By that logic, why not vote for Nader?

I really don't want a repeat of the 2000 election and a vote for Nader will be a wasted vote.

Mezro...Nader sunk Al Gore and gave us 4 years of GWB. Ralph Nader can go fuck himself over a green barrel...

[steve]

I supported Kerry very early in the election.

Back when he was about 8% in the polls in New Hampshire and Iowa, I watched him give a speach on C-SPAN beneath a tent in a small town in NH. He spoke about the United States place in the world, his experiences in the Senate and Vietnam, and health care; and really spoke off the cuff - very natural, unscripted, detailed speech - very passionate.

Afterwards, the few dozen people there came up and started asking questions. One woman, a nurse, came up and started asking about teh reasons he voted for a particular bill from 12 years ago that affected her form of nursing - not only was Kerry able to recall the bill, he went on to discuss the details of it with her for the next 10 minutes, explaining to her exactly why he voted for what he did. She came to him very concerned and disgruntled - but left looking like she felt he had given not only a satisfactory answer, but bestowed some sense of faith in both Kerry's confidence, and his conscience.

I was watching a lot of CSPAN during the Democratic debates, and Kerry came accross this way to me a number of times - that is, extremely competent, knowledgable, and generally caring... everything that George W. Bush, for all that can feasibly be argued about his good intentions, is not. Both may have come from relative privilage - Kerry the son of an upper middle class diplomat and Bush born into a virtual empire of wealth - but Kerry seemed to have used that privilage to pursue public service from day one...beginning with hsi time as a kid growing up in war-ravaged Berlin....whereas Bush seemed to squander it his entire life, when, after bankrupting several companies on the Bin Laden family's money, fell into politics when there was nothing else to do - and by way of his daddy's name.

I appreciated Kerry's frankness in not being afraid to actually discuss the issues with folks he came accross in person, and not resort to lowest common denominator antagonistic black.white discussion. It is what turned me away from Bush in 1999 and what turned me away from Howard Dean, to be honest. Kerry wasn't afraid to be a little intellectual with folks - I look upon THAT as honesty and frankness.

So I did more investigation on the man, and then before he started rising in the polls, I went down to his headquarters in DC a few times and made some calls.

And then...based soley on my 6 hours of volunteering, he won Iowa and New Hampshire.

Well...possibly not.

Since the, Kerry has wandered a little from his willingness to really engage people in debates, but recently, he has begun to get back to that man bit by bit as he has become more comfortable with his role as national political figure.

Bush, meanwhile, just seems to get angrier, and angrier - using every form of debate tactic coached to him to turn every argument into a "your either with us or against us scenario".

[Pink Spider]

Originally posted by FORD
If Junior wins, there won't be ANY options next time around. :(

Corporate America loves Democrats too. Of course there will still be options. You know, one or the other like always.

Besides, what are the Democrats going to do? They've already supported putting protesters in caged off repressed speech zones. When it comes to keeping free speech away from themselves, they're no different from their Republican counterparts.

Bottom line, any real conservative that votes for Bush is as much of a fool as any real liberal that votes for Kerry. You people have been set up to vote for one or the other. And this isn't a post endorsing Nader. I just want to see people get their heads out of the sand and look and see how the voting system has been manipulated. Would either of these clowns be up there if they didn't have millions or billions (http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8248) invested in them winning the election? The answer is very clear.

There are better people from all spectrums out there that deserve to be President and surely could do a much better job than these 2.

Forget "electability" and voting for this guy because they're not as bad as this other one. That's another manipulation to keep America under total corporate control. You can't sell or buy democracy, but if you look at the corporations who own most of this media, you'll see that their prime motive is to subvert reasoning, or to influence you to buy their product. It's the same with politics. You're sold an ideology, a political party. Since there are so many Americans with a TV addiction, it's not surprising that Kerry and Bush are frontrunners, I simply want to know why? What's so special about these guys besides their bank accounts? And are Americans really this stupid?

Set your demands HIGH. If you don't demand much and set your expectations low to choosing between a bunch of corporate loving, constitution shredding losers like the Democrats and Republicans, trust me, you won't get much.

[Sgt Schultz]

They've given you their answer. They aren't voting FOR Kerry, they are voting against Bush becasue they have bought into all the anti Bush propoganda. Yeah, Bush has an MBA from Harvard and flew fighter jets - any idiot can do that. But wait, he didn't really do that, he must have cheated. And becasue he doesn't regularly read anti-Bush newspapers he's uninformed. And he flew onto a carrier just to show off and say "Mission Accomplished" when it really wasn't.

Of course that's the opinion of people ignorant of the facts. The fact is the war was won? Why say that. Gee I don't know, the Iraqi army was smashed, ther Iraqi government was no more, Saddam was missing. In fact the reason Bush said Mission Accomplished to the Abraham Lincoln was.......that's right....the carrier had come home becasue they didn't have any more targets. Meaning MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.

I do have a question for those voting FOR Kerry - what is he going to do DIFFERENTLY in Iraq? What does it mean to have better relations with France and Germany? That Kerry gets invited to go to their contries to be cheered by European Socialists? What else does it mean? Chamberlainesque appeasement of terrorism and terrorist states?

I'm rambling.

[FORD]

Originally posted by Pink Spider
Corporate America loves Democrats too. Of course there will still be options. You know, one or the other like always.

Not this time. If Junior wins, I believe we will be looking at a one party fascist state. The minor parties will never have their say if the major party even ceases to exist.

Besides, what are the Democrats going to do? They've already supported putting protesters in caged off repressed speech zones. When it comes to keeping free speech away from themselves, they're no different from their Republican counterparts.

I'm as appalled by the cage as you are, but it wasn't the Democrats who set that up. It was BCE Reichland security and/or the SS. And no doubt the same thing will be employed outside Madison Square Garden next month. In fact at one time I remember reading that the repukes wanted the so called "Free Speech zone" to be even farther away from the coronation/9-11 hypefest.

My free speech zone is bordered by the Pacific and Atlantic oceans, and fuck anyone - Democrat or Republican - who says otherwise.

Bottom line, any real conservative that votes for Bush is as much of a fool as any real liberal that votes for Kerry. You people have been set up to vote for one or the other. And this isn't a post endorsing Nader. I just want to see people get their heads out of the sand and look and see how the voting system has been manipulated. Would either of these clowns be up there if they didn't have millions or billions (http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8248) invested in them winning the election? The answer is very clear.

There are better people from all spectrums out there that deserve to be President and surely could do a much better job than these 2.

Forget "electability" and voting for this guy because they're not as bad as this other one. That's another manipulation to keep America under total corporate control. You can't sell or buy democracy, but if you look at the corporations who own most of this media, you'll see that their prime motive is to subvert reasoning, or to influence you to buy their product. It's the same with politics. You're sold an ideology, a political party. Since there are so many Americans with a TV addiction, it's not surprising that Kerry and Bush are frontrunners, I simply want to know why? What's so special about these guys besides their bank accounts? And are Americans really this stupid?

Set your demands HIGH. If you don't demand much and set your expectations low to choosing between a bunch of corporate loving, constitution shredding losers like the Democrats and Republicans, trust me, you won't get much.

The only reason I'm participating in a "lesser of two evils" vote this time is because one of the evils is really that bad. Other Republican presidents of the past have done temporary damage. To the economy. To the environment. To the institution of government itself. But this country has always recovered from them.

The BCE - PNAC descent into totalitarianism is something we may NEVER recover from, and that's why I can't allow it to go on any further. I may be just as appalled with Kerry's foreign policy as I am with Junior's, but at least I'll still have mountains covered (mostly) with trees and clean air so I can see them. And Kenny Starr won't be on the Supreme Court.

And that makes a half-assed Democrat prefferable to a full assed fascist dictatorship.

I fully expect to be spending a lot of time over the next 4 years helping Howard Dean reform the Democratic Party. Or if that somehow fails, helping develop a viable third party. One way or the other, this will be the last time I vote for a "lesser evil", at least in a general election.

[Warham]

But the BCE controls the world. Even if Kerry is elected, there's nothing he can do to stop the BCE juggernaut. The New World Order is near. Head to your nearest medical center for your memory swipe and brain implant.

[Pink Spider]

Not this time. If Junior wins, I believe we will be looking at a one party fascist state. The minor parties will never have their say if the major party even ceases to exist.

They have little say now. We already have a one party corporate fascist state that have two separate factions of the same group. One plays the good cop, but some of us know better.


I'm as appalled by the cage as you are, but it wasn't the Democrats who set that up. It was BCE Reichland security and/or the SS. And no doubt the same thing will be employed outside Madison Square Garden next month. In fact at one time I remember reading that the repukes wanted the so called "Free Speech zone" to be even farther away from the coronation/9-11 hypefest.

My free speech zone is bordered by the Pacific and Atlantic oceans, and fuck anyone - Democrat or Republican - who says otherwise.

Nice try, but even Clinton had "protest zones". I would say that lately they've gotten a lot more scary looking. But, to put the blame solely on the Republicans is wrong. The Democrats have done the same thing for a while now.


The only reason I'm participating in a "lesser of two evils" vote this time is because one of the evils is really that bad. Other Republican presidents of the past have done temporary damage. To the economy. To the environment. To the institution of government itself. But this country has always recovered from them.

There is no way to recover without looking at the big picture. Shrub is a puppet. Both evils are puppets with the same goals who tend to vary minor on foreign policy and on a lot of social issues. The Democrats are simply not pushing for reform hard enough to be seen as a viable threat. And that's the way it's supposed to be by design.


The BCE - PNAC descent into totalitarianism is something we may NEVER recover from, and that's why I can't allow it to go on any further. I may be just as appalled with Kerry's foreign policy as I am with Junior's, but at least I'll still have mountains covered (mostly) with trees and clean air so I can see them. And Kenny Starr won't be on the Supreme Court.

The BCE is irrelevant to the overall scheme. Although, the Bush family has enabled some of the corporate reforms taking place, there lies an even bigger problem waiting. Call it "globalism" or whatever. A few that want a world government that wants to make itself rich beyond today's standards while making everyone totally dependent upon them for the basics of life(look around and you'll see what's taking place already). They want to control all combined wealth. PNAC only covers the American branch, but some of the details they outline points to a world corporate government. They are very much relevant.


I fully expect to be spending a lot of time over the next 4 years helping Howard Dean reform the Democratic Party. Or if that somehow fails, helping develop a viable third party. One way or the other, this will be the last time I vote for a "lesser evil", at least in a general election.

I doubt that the Democratic party can ever be reformed. It's too infested with people working against the common interests. Chances are that it will forever succumb to being a permanent Republican light organization. That's why there need to be third parties and individuals speaking up more than ever.

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by FORD
The only reason I'm participating in a "lesser of two evils" vote this time is because one of the evils is really that bad.

You said you would never vote for Kerry, that he is no better than the BCE...

..and "lesser of two evils" ?? That's how someone who considers himself 'informed' votes ??

Why not vote for Nader, FORD ??

I fully expect to be spending a lot of time over the next 4 years helping Howard Dean reform the Democratic Party.

The future of the Democratic party is Hillary Clinton...

BTW, does Howard Dean know anything about David Lee Roth ??



LMFAO!
:elvis:

[Big Train]

Posted by Ford:

I fully expect to be spending a lot of time over the next 4 years helping Howard Dean reform the Democratic Party. Or if that somehow fails, helping develop a viable third party. One way or the other, this will be the last time I vote for a "lesser evil", at least in a general election.

A viable third party? This is after you leave them hanging out to dry during the elections to get their 5%. It is simple: 5%-=Viable. Deny them that and your full of shit about helping them.

And to the other poster who said it's a wasted vote, that is a completely uneducated view. Your vote (which counts) means something. It is up to you whether or not you want to use it meaningfully. Hate Bush, ok no vote. Don't believe in Kerry, no vote. So what do you do? Why not build a third platform with that vote? This is about what you believe, not who you think will win. Vote what you believe, but if you believe your vote is wasted you very mistaken. Only you can make it meaningless.

[Betty Bush III]

Ford,

You throw around words like dictatorship and fascist, however why are tens of thousands of foreign people lining up to get into this country legally as well as illegally each day? Conversly there is no line of people trying to escape the United States. No one is forced to stay in case you didn't know that.

I don't know if you are serious about your opinions, or if you are trying to entertain yourself by acting like a typical ungrateful socialist pansy-ass. Let me know.

PS: you should take a vacation to North Korea this summer so you can learn the meaning of fascism.

[FORD]

Originally posted by ELVIS
You said you would never vote for Kerry, that he is no better than the BCE...

I'm voting against Bush. I will vote for Edwards though. He's far from my ideal candidate, but I believe he's a decent honorable guy.

..and "lesser of two evils" ?? That's how someone who considers himself 'informed' votes ??

Why not vote for Nader, FORD ??

Because Nader can't win. Neither can the guy the Greens have. Or the Libertarian. Or the right wing fringe candidates. Or La Rouche (thank God!) or whatever configuration the Commies and Socialists are taking this year.

I agree that other parties should be more involved in the process, but this country (Not to mention Afghanistan and Iraq) have suffered far too much under 4 years of the BCE and the idea of "making it worse so it can get better" just won't fly here. Because 4 more years of these fascist fucking pigs and there will be no way back. Lose the PNAC'ers first, then bring on the REAL campaign finance reform.

The future of the Democratic party is Hillary Clinton...

Hillary Clinton currently represents the WORST that the Democratic party has to offer. She's been absolutely SPINELESS against the BCE, and that's when she's not openly applauding them. If this party is to survive at all, it needs more Howard Deans and Barack Obamas, and far less DaschleHillaryGephardts.

BTW, does Howard Dean know anything about David Lee Roth

What do you think the "scream"in Iowa was all about? ;)

[FORD]

Originally posted by Betty Bush III
Ford,

You throw around words like dictatorship and fascist, however why are tens of thousands of foreign people lining up to get into this country legally as well as illegally each day? Conversly there is no line of people trying to escape the United States. No one is forced to stay in case you didn't know that.

I don't know if you are serious about your opinions, or if you are trying to entertain yourself by acting like a typical ungrateful socialist pansy-ass. Let me know.

PS: you should take a vacation to North Korea this summer so you can learn the meaning of fascism.


How does North Korea score on this test.....


The 14 Defining
Characteristics Of Fascism
Free Inquiry
Spring 2003
5-11-3

Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed
to the government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected - The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

[Big Train]

I'd say the good prof. been riding his bicycle around the DMZ for awhile...