The Bible

[Seshmeister]

I know a few of you study such things but has anyone here actually looked into the history of the bible.

I.e. where it came from, who chose which gospels to include, and what stuff was left out.

I've been doing some reading on it over the last couple of years and it's fascinating stuff.

The bible as we know it was put together in Constantines time with his blessing. I always thought that he was the first Christian emperor which is sort of true but what I didn't realise was he only turned to Christianity on his deathbed, the old 'just in case' approach.

Kind of like Darwin repudiating his work on his death bed.

What's more interesting is the fact that there were some 80 gospels originally and then they were brought down to the ones there are today during Constantines reign.

The discovery of the Red Sea Scrolls included some of the stuff that hadn't made it to the final draft of the New Testament. In those it seems to strongly show that Jesus was married and may have had a kid. Not good news for Constantine since if Jesus had heirs then all kings were in a bit of trouble...

I'm not an expert in this but I think that it's worth a look...

Cheers!

:gulp:

[Don Corleone]

I've studied a fair amount of material on this, and I'll agree with you that it is very interesting. The Bible we know was actually written in Greek originally, then translated into Latin, before finally being translatted into English.

The point you make about the Red Sea Scrolls is also an interesting one. It is rumoured that there was a chapter of the Gospel of Mattew that was destroyed very early on that may have included this bit of info. Also the Jesus having kids thing spills over into the Holy Grail story.

In the origianl text the holy grail appears as 1 word, and can be translated to mean either 2 things

1. Holy Cup (or grail from the Anglo Saxon word)
2. Blood Royal

In grail theory the speculation is that Mary Magdalin was the "cup" and that the "Blood Royal" was a child. Unfortuantely after the crusifiction she took refuge in Gaul (France), so a blood decendant will most probably be French.

[FORD]

Originally posted by Don Corleone
I've studied a fair amount of material on this, and I'll agree with you that it is very interesting. The Bible we know was actually written in Greek originally, then translated into Latin, before finally being translatted into English.

The point you make about the Red Sea Scrolls is also an interesting one. It is rumoured that there was a chapter of the Gospel of Mattew that was destroyed very early on that may have included this bit of info. Also the Jesus having kids thing spills over into the Holy Grail story.

In the origianl text the holy grail appears as 1 word, and can be translated to mean either 2 things

1. Holy Cup (or grail from the Anglo Saxon word)
2. Blood Royal

In grail theory the speculation is that Mary Magdalin was the "cup" and that the "Blood Royal" was a child. Unfortuantely after the crusifiction she took refuge in Gaul (France), so a blood decendant will most probably be French.

Now wouldn't that just fuck up the Neocon shitbags' day - the possibility that descendants of Jesus Christ would be FRENCH.

I suppose they would say that explains why He didn't overthrow the Roman rule of Israel :rolleyes:

[Mezro]

The bible: a book of fairy tales and legends that makes the Brothers Grimm look weak.

Mezro...I'm always shocked when people buy the cart of shit that the bible (and religion) sells...

[Warham]

Why shocked? More people believe in God than don't.

[FORD]

I'm sure JC will clear this all up in the morning. Of course, He doesn't post on the Sabbath :)

[Mezro]

Originally posted by Warham
Why shocked? More people believe in God than don't.

Because I don't understand how intelligent people really believe in God.

If you are a man of faith Warham explain it to me. Look at the state of the world today. Do you really think an all powerful, loving God would allow the world to be filled with war, terrorism, disease etc etc etc.

Mezro...to me, it is like believing in Santa Claus as an adult...I better be good so God doesn't put coal in my stocking...please...

[Cathedral]

Given the fact that Mary Magdeline spent so much time with Jesus alone, and the rest of the desciples were jealous of her to the point that they excluded her as the 13th of the group proved to me that there was much much more to the story than anyone knew.

If anything, she was the holder of more knowledge from Jesus from their private walks than any of the other 12. When she spoke of Jesus teachings she was shunned, and the books telling her side of it all were excluded from history, some say destroyed.

The bible we know of today is the product of manipulation from the start which pretty much makes it impossible for anyone to know how to live by the word of God. which means that in the end, the only people who will ever see heaven, are the one's who lived in that period and saw first hand what was actually going on.

My mother and her husband live by the bible and we get into conflicts about such things. They would have me believe what they believe without proving it, or documenting it as it were.
This i did spend a few months doing but the inconsistencies became to many to disprove, leading me to abandon it all as untrue, or incomplete at the very least.
The lack of the other books makes it completely impossible to prove everything the bible says.
In my opinion the missing books would create more questions than they would answer and completely contradict the scripture as it is preached today.

I can explain further but i'd rather send you a book explaining my findings.
This can be yours for FREE if you send me a Love Gift of $20.00 or more. This gift IS tax deductable and will enlighten you in many ways.
I accept payment by personal check, money order, Visa and Master Card.
Don't delay, YOU need this informative book.......... ;)

[knuckleboner]

Originally posted by Mezro
Because I don't understand how intelligent people really believe in God.

Do you really think an all powerful, loving God would allow the world to be filled with war, terrorism, disease etc etc etc.



of course. the greatest gift a diety can give is free will. if whatever omnipotent entity is out there gets physically involved in our world, then we really don't have full free will.

free will means that some bad shit is going to happen from time to time. but it's better in the end.



and personally, i don't fully understand how intelligent people can believe that the entire vastness of the universe began from absolute nothing. it's certainly a leap of faith to assume a diety started it all.

but to me, it's a bigger leap of faith to say that NOTHING started it. a complete lack of any intelligence whatsoever just happened to lead to the creation of a highly orderly universe? i'm not buying...

[DLR'sCock]

I would say that the answer is most likely beyond the comprehension of any human being....

[Mezro]

Originally posted by knuckleboner
but to me, it's a bigger leap of faith to say that NOTHING started it. a complete lack of any intelligence whatsoever just happened to lead to the creation of a highly orderly universe? i'm not buying...

Something bigger than us had to have started it but I'm not ready to believe the organized religion version of a supreme being (God).

Mezro...what created us? I don't know...the questions is will they/it ever come back and determine that the human race is a failed experiment...

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by Cathedral


The bible we know of today is the product of manipulation from the start which pretty much makes it impossible for anyone to know how to live by the word of God. which means that in the end, the only people who will ever see heaven, are the one's who lived in that period and saw first hand what was actually going on.



There's this clause they pounded into us in elementary school that whatever the Church holds true, God holds true in Heaven. I never bought that.

But the whole no one but those alive at the time seeing Heaven thing, I don't think it's like that.

Seeing how most religions have the same basic morals but different ways to worship, I think the differing religions is just part of the free will deal. I highly doubt that when we die we'll meet St. Peter at the pearly white gates and he'll go to us, "Sorry. [insert religion here] was the correct answer. Bye."

Honestly, I think all that matters is that you don't go aroundas if you rule all and that there is some sort of acknowledgement of this higher power.

[pete]

If a higher power required acknowledgement &/or praise: It would make it's prescence known.

I come from the same school of thought that mezro comes from.

The school of logic.

But I respect faith. I admire it. Wish I could share it.

The history of the bible is a fascinating subject.

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by pete
If a higher power required acknowledgement &/or praise: It would make it's prescence known.


Maybe it does, but mankind has a habit of remembering all the bad and letting the odd good luck pass from memory.

When people where waiting for the Messiah to come, they were expecting chariots in the sky and this mighty king. What they got was a little baby boy born next to sheep and cows. Any presence that a higher power who was involved with that would make wouldn't be a full-blown one.

If the higher power made an apperance where it was unmistable that He/She/It existed, there would go that free will option

[pete]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
Maybe it does, but mankind has a habit of remembering all the bad and letting the odd good luck pass from memory.

When people where waiting for the Messiah to come, they were expecting chariots in the sky and this mighty king. What they got was a little baby boy born next to sheep and cows. Any presence that a higher power who was involved with that would make wouldn't be a full-blown one.

If the higher power made an apperance where it was unmistable that He/She/It existed, there would go that free will option

Assuming there is a GOD.

By assuming HE/SHE/whatever requires praise is projecting human arrogance on the diety.

I don't think if there is a God - that this God, who has lived for eternitiy, would have the issue of vanity.

I also thing, still assuming there is a God, that the lack of confirmed knowlege of Him/Her supports that theory.

you're right, we revel in our misery and take for granted our fortunes.

[rustoffa]

(carbon 14 tastes good)

Why did Peter's bones serve as the foundation for the vatican?
The crusades were a bitch for everyone involved.
The inquisition?

Too many variables involved.

Galileo tried to turn it into a handbook.

One thing's for certain, It's a hotbed of controversy!

[Mezro]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
There's this clause they pounded into us in elementary school that whatever the Church holds true, God holds true in Heaven. I never bought that.



I hate when people influence children on issues of faith, morality, politics etc.

Let children come to their own conclusions on the subject(s) as they grow and experience life.

Mezro...forcing shit on people is not educating them...

[Mezro]

Originally posted by pete
But I respect faith. I admire it.

I respect faith as well but despise those who are blinded by it.

Mezro...our current president comes to mind...

[pete]

Bush is not a Christian.

He says he is.

He doesn't know who the head of india is.

Ask him who the 12 apostles are.

LOL

He will fail.

[pete]

Don't forget RUFUS

The 13th Apostle

btw.....I just got banned from the links

"Form Submission Error
You have been banned from making any new posts or sending private messages. The reason for this ban is: Another idiot Army moron we don't need here"

[Seshmeister]

I just think it's amazing that over thousands of years people have spent so much time analysing every nuance of the text of the bible but so little has been done looking into where it came from.

There seems to be some pretty good evidence that Mary Magdelene was of royal blood so are we looking at spin...?

You have Constantine fearing the threat of an alternative heir so how better than to say she was a whore?

Unless Jesus was a screaming homosexual then it was deeply frowned upon for a 30 year old Jewish guy in those days not to be married. If he wasn't married then there should have been some justification for that in the gospels.

Leonardo da Vinci in his last supper painting shows a women(surely) at his right hand side.

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Newsweek/Photos/mag/031208/031129_davinciCode_hd.hmedium.jpg

Why would he risk that?

You have Constantine fearing the threat of an alternative heir so how better than to say she was a whore?


Cheers!

:gulp:

[Mezro]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
Unless Jesus was a screaming homosexual

Imagine if that were really true and the Bible was nothing more than a gay travel log.

Mezro...say Jesus, you have a really styling goatee there...

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by pete
Don't forget RUFUS

The 13th Apostle

btw.....I just got banned from the links

"Form Submission Error
You have been banned from making any new posts or sending private messages. The reason for this ban is: Another idiot Army moron we don't need here"

Pete you have just gone up in my opinion hugely...:)

You aint someone until you've been banned form the Links...:D

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by Mezro
Imagine if that were really true and the Bible was nothing more than a gay travel log.

Mezro...say Jesus, you have a really styling goatee there...

:)

I think it really comes down to either he was gay or the bible has been severely manipulated.

At the moment I'm going for the later.

[pete]

He did kiss Judas in the garden. or vice versa

according to the bible.

Ford was acting like it was the end of the world.

[pete]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
:)

I think it really comes down to either he was gay or the bible has been severely manipulated.

At the moment I'm going for the later.

It's been said and documented that there was also references to karma/reincarnation that were removed from what is now called the bible.

[Mezro]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
:)

I think it really comes down to either he was gay or the bible has been severely manipulated.

At the moment I'm going for the later.

At the moment I'm going for the bible not being historically accurate and that people put way too faith in a work of fiction.

Mezro...I'd be surprised if 10% of it was true...

[Viking]

It's like this: let's say that I believe in the Bible, Heaven, Hell, the whole enchilada, and you don't. Now, If YOU'RE right - it's all a bunch of superstitious bunk - then the only way we're BOTH going to know is when we both reach thermodynamic ambiance (READ: room temperature). And then nobody's going to be around to gloat, will they? BUT - BUT - let's just assume, for a moment, that I'm right. That there is an Almighty Creator, and if we want more than this miserable existence, there are a few (logical) ground rules we have to follow. Now, if I AM right, then when I die, my soul goes to a Much Better Place. YOU have some 'splaining to do at The Pearly Gates. Now, either way, I think I'm in a win-win situation. Even if YOU'RE right, at least I'll be remembered as someone that didn't run around living some Lord Of The Flies existence, and I can live with that.

[pete]

Originally posted by Viking
It's like this: let's say that I believe in the Bible, Heaven, Hell, the whole enchilada, and you don't. Now, If YOU'RE right - it's all a bunch of superstitious bunk - then the only way we're BOTH going to know is when we both reach thermodynamic ambiance (READ: room temperature). And then nobody's going to be around to gloat, will they? BUT - BUT - let's just assume, for a moment, that I'm right. That there is an Almighty Creator, and if we want more than this miserable existence, there are a few (logical) ground rules we have to follow. Now, if I AM right, then when I die, my soul goes to a Much Better Place. YOU have some 'splaining to do at The Pearly Gates. Now, either way, I think I'm in a win-win situation. Even if YOU'RE right, at least I'll be remembered as someone that didn't run around living some Lord Of The Flies existence, and I can live with that.

God

Scmod

MOD

what does it all mean?

LOL

[rustoffa]

Originally posted by Viking
It's like this: let's say that I believe in the Bible, Heaven, Hell, the whole enchilada, and you don't. Now, If YOU'RE right - it's all a bunch of superstitious bunk - then the only way we're BOTH going to know is when we both reach thermodynamic ambiance (READ: room temperature). And then nobody's going to be around to gloat, will they? BUT - BUT - let's just assume, for a moment, that I'm right. That there is an Almighty Creator, and if we want more than this miserable existence, there are a few (logical) ground rules we have to follow. Now, if I AM right, then when I die, my soul goes to a Much Better Place. YOU have some 'splaining to do at The Pearly Gates. Now, either way, I think I'm in a win-win situation. Even if YOU'RE right, at least I'll be remembered as someone that didn't run around living some Lord Of The Flies existence, and I can live with that.

The Roth Army is strong I tell ya......
Jaw-dropping smackdown from Viking.
Hats off bro.

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
I just think it's amazing that over thousands of years people have spent so much time analysing every nuance of the text of the bible but so little has been done looking into where it came from.

There seems to be some pretty good evidence that Mary Magdelene was of royal blood so are we looking at spin...?

You have Constantine fearing the threat of an alternative heir so how better than to say she was a whore?

Unless Jesus was a screaming homosexual then it was deeply frowned upon for a 30 year old Jewish guy in those days not to be married. If he wasn't married then there should have been some justification for that in the gospels.

Leonardo da Vinci in his last supper painting shows a women(surely) at his right hand side.

http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Newsweek/Photos/mag/031208/031129_davinciCode_hd.hmedium.jpg

Why would he risk that?

You have Constantine fearing the threat of an alternative heir so how better than to say she was a whore?


Cheers!

:gulp:

hun, you do realize that this is nothing new. I was taught this long ago. It's just coming up recently and popularly because of that novel.

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by Mezro
I hate when people influence children on issues of faith, morality, politics etc.

Let children come to their own conclusions on the subject(s) as they grow and experience life.

Mezro...forcing shit on people is not educating them...

You choose if you are Confirmed or not. They made us go to a special theology class after school. Sat there and had this guy rip apart all our answers to theological questions and prove over and over again how there was no God and all that. Afterwards you had the option if you wanted to receive the sacrament or not.

[pete]

You're so selective in your response recipients. Sorry if I wasn't Entertaining.

[Ally_Kat]

:p what did you do to get banned, or were you only banned cuz you're from here?

[pete]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
:p what did you do to get banned, or were you only banned cuz you're from here?

The truth hurts.

I explained my points articulately while simultaneously insulting the gene pools that spawned the lack of comprehension so prevelant.

go figure

[FORD]

You can get banned for little or nothing at Links if it's Brett's "time of the month". I guess looking like Cherone comes with PMS?

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by rustoffa
The Roth Army is strong I tell ya......
Jaw-dropping smackdown from Viking.
Hats off bro.


Yup. :gulp:

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Mezro
I hate when people influence children on issues of faith, morality, politics etc.



It's called parenting. That's what parents do. Do you have kids? :gulp:

[Warham]

People have to influence their children on issues of faith, morality, politics, etc. I'd rather influence my daughter than have other children influence her. They've got to have a good moral compass in life, and parents provide it.

My cousin didn't get a good moral compass from his parents. Now, he's in jail for 6 years for breaking into vending machines. Also had a kid of out wedlock at, I believe, 17 years of age. Schlub. Also dropped out of school at 16. Not only did he not get moral guidance, he didn't get any guidance period, and his parents are to blame.

You can tell who's got kids and who doesn't.

[WACF]

Viking said it best.....

[Satan]

Don't believe a word of that Bible stuff. Just keep on sinning all you want. I've got plenty of room down here :D

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by pete

I come from the school of logic.

But I respect faith. I admire it. Wish I could share it.




I agree with you 100%

[Jano]

Religious's war kill so many peoples in the world,it's ridiculous

[Mezro]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
It's called parenting. That's what parents do. Do you have kids? :gulp:

Nope. I really have no interest in children but I'm sure it brings joy to those who do.

Mezro...plus a child named "Mezro Jr" would have a tough time at school...

[frenchie]

the bible is as boring as the coran.some people justify why they are killing people with that.history learned this

[frenchie]

but it's true that jesus was the first real rock star, i've got all these albums

[Satan]

The differnce between Heaven and Hell....

You don't have to believe in anything to end up here. Come on down! ;)

[Mezro]

Originally posted by Viking
It's like this: let's say that I believe in the Bible, Heaven, Hell, the whole enchilada, and you don't. Now, If YOU'RE right - it's all a bunch of superstitious bunk - then the only way we're BOTH going to know is when we both reach thermodynamic ambiance (READ: room temperature). And then nobody's going to be around to gloat, will they? BUT - BUT - let's just assume, for a moment, that I'm right. That there is an Almighty Creator, and if we want more than this miserable existence, there are a few (logical) ground rules we have to follow. Now, if I AM right, then when I die, my soul goes to a Much Better Place. YOU have some 'splaining to do at The Pearly Gates. Now, either way, I think I'm in a win-win situation. Even if YOU'RE right, at least I'll be remembered as someone that didn't run around living some Lord Of The Flies existence, and I can live with that.

Not believing in God does not mean a Lord Of The Flies existence. It means trusting your own judgment and taking everything with a grain of salt until you have more to go on than blind faith.

I won't have any explaining to do if there is a God/Heaven/Pearly Gates. The creator would love me for who/what I am. If anything, I think a higher power would be thrilled to see one of his creations try to think outside of the box and do something a bit off the beaten path. It is easy to be a follower but tough to be a leader.

It would be great if there is a God but I don't really see any proof of it...yet;)

Mezro...I respect your right to believe what you want Viking as I'm sure you do mine...

[Jano]

Originally posted by FORD
Now wouldn't that just fuck up the Neocon shitbags' day - the possibility that descendants of Jesus Christ would be FRENCH.

I suppose they would say that explains why He didn't overthrow the Roman rule of Israel
-
:rolleyes:
-Be nice to me now,i maybe JESUS's descendant!!!!:D

[Mezro]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
You choose if you are Confirmed or not. They made us go to a special theology class after school. Sat there and had this guy rip apart all our answers to theological questions and prove over and over again how there was no God and all that. Afterwards you had the option if you wanted to receive the sacrament or not.

Having a guy try to "shock you" out of a faith that you've been taught (had forced upon you) since childhood, in one sitting, would only scare/confuse and make people want to be Confirmed more. Most people choose safety/the known over conflict/the unknown.

Why do you have to be Confirmed at all to believe in God? Do you think receiving the sacrament would make a God love you any more than he/she/it would otherwise?

Mezro...if there is a God you sure as hell don't need organized religion to find he/she/it...

[Warham]

Originally posted by Viking
It's like this: let's say that I believe in the Bible, Heaven, Hell, the whole enchilada, and you don't. Now, If YOU'RE right - it's all a bunch of superstitious bunk - then the only way we're BOTH going to know is when we both reach thermodynamic ambiance (READ: room temperature). And then nobody's going to be around to gloat, will they? BUT - BUT - let's just assume, for a moment, that I'm right. That there is an Almighty Creator, and if we want more than this miserable existence, there are a few (logical) ground rules we have to follow. Now, if I AM right, then when I die, my soul goes to a Much Better Place. YOU have some 'splaining to do at The Pearly Gates. Now, either way, I think I'm in a win-win situation. Even if YOU'RE right, at least I'll be remembered as someone that didn't run around living some Lord Of The Flies existence, and I can live with that.

Sounds a bit like Pascal's wager to me.

[Osama Bin Laden]

Those who distort the words of Allah and His prophets unto their own purposes will be tormented for everlasting.

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by Mezro
Having a guy try to "shock you" out of a faith that you've been taught (had forced upon you) since childhood, in one sitting, would only scare/confuse and make people want to be Confirmed more. Most people choose safety/the known over conflict/the unknown.

Why do you have to be Confirmed at all to believe in God? Do you think receiving the sacrament would make a God love you any more than he/she/it would otherwise?

Mezro...if there is a God you sure as hell don't need organized religion to find he/she/it...

It wasn't just one sitting, it was over a year.

Confirmation is a sacrament like Baptism, except with Baptism your parents are making the choice for you to be in the religion and not you. With Confirmation, you become an adult in the Church and choose yourself to participate in this faith. It's not that God'll love me more or that I need it to believe in God. It's me saying, "I pick this religion out of all the ones I've learned about over the span of my education. When you see me in Church it's on my own accord and not my parents dragging me to teach me their faith. This is now the official faith of Ally."

And no, it didn't want people to be Confirmed more. Half our class decided not to go thru with the sacrament. A couple of them found other religions that they preferred and for some, they deicided they didn't believe in a God.

[Osama Bin Laden]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
A couple of them found other religions that they preferred

Did they convert to Islam?

[turboblues]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
Pete you have just gone up in my opinion hugely...:)

You aint someone until you've been banned form the Links...:D
Hmm, gotta go over there and give a rant or two!

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by Osama Bin Laden
Did they convert to Islam?

There's this guy on yahoo messenger from Pakistan who is trying to convert me to Islam. Found out I was a Christian and apparently that's not a good thing.

Keeps telling me that I will perish unless I accept Allah's message. Told him his Allah and my God were the same dude. That threw him for a loop.

He's really adament on converting me. That and he keeps talking about his wife and how it was arranged and how my future marriage for love will fail.

Interesting character.

[turboblues]

Originally posted by turboblues
Hmm, gotta go over there and give a rant or two!
Got banned at the links after 6 posts:)
Well, don't even know why I got there in the first place. Nothing interesting going on over there. Bunch of losers!!

[turboblues]

God, Allah..whatever. DLR is the only god I know of!

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat

Interesting character.


Offer to give him the hummer of his life if he shaves off his beard then don't do it. :D :gulp:

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
hun, you do realize that this is nothing new. I was taught this long ago. It's just coming up recently and popularly because of that novel.

Well obviously it's not new...:)

But how many people have had the education you did?

Your experience is interesting with the guy offering alternatives but to me that just reads like they were testing how good their 16 year brainwashing program was...:)

And for the record I think Vikings much lauded post is flawed because surely true faith is completely different from hedging your bets?

As I remember the bible says it doesn't matter how good a life you lead, if you don't truely believe then it's off to Sammy land when you die. I'm not sure who added that bit but I'm guessing the churches that got huge donations in the wills of frightened people over the years have thanked him for it.

Cheers!

:gulp:

[knuckleboner]

Originally posted by Mezro
Something bigger than us had to have started it but I'm not ready to believe the organized religion version of a supreme being (God).

Mezro...what created us? I don't know...the questions is will they/it ever come back and determine that the human race is a failed experiment...

oh, i hear you, bro. i'm not saying that logic tells you which religion to follow. could be budda, could be allah, could be something completely new and different.

but there's a supreme being somewhere. because if whatever created us ISN'T an omnipotent being, then who/what created our creator? eventually, i think logic has a supreme being in there somewhere.

while i have my opinions on the intentions and nature of THAT supreme being, the only thing i can say about "him" with any certainty is that "he's" definitely not a hagar fan...

[pete]

The Coran is written for the .......... Intellectually challenged.

Religion for dummies.

[Ally_Kat]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
their 16 year brainwashing program was...:)



10 years. The Lutherans around here are confirmed at age 16. The Catholics do it at age 13. I started pre-K when I was 3, so 10 years for me. Well, 8 if you want to count when they started giving us theology lessons in 1st grade

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by knuckleboner
oh, i hear you, bro. i'm not saying that logic tells you which religion to follow. could be budda, could be allah, could be something completely new and different.


It's just an accident of birth.

The most devout Christians in the US would be devout Muslims if they had been born in a Muslim country.

Cheers!

:gulp:

[Satan]

Originally posted by knuckleboner
oh, i hear you, bro. i'm not saying that logic tells you which religion to follow. could be budda, could be allah, could be something completely new and different.



How about Satanism? :D

[knuckleboner]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
It's just an accident of birth.

The most devout Christians in the US would be devout Muslims if they had been born in a Muslim country.

Cheers!

:gulp:


no doubt. sure, some people convert as adults. but most stay with their originial.

still, personally, i don't think the ultimate deity cares which one (or even any) that we choose. he/she/it just wants us to lead a good, decent life. whatever we use to help us in that is fine.







and, yep, it could be satanism. sure would explain why everything in the universe eventually leads to us getting cancer!:D

[Mezro]

Originally posted by Ally_Kat
The Lutherans around here are confirmed at age 16. The Catholics do it at age 13.

Both the Lutherans and Catholics should wait until at least 21 to do the whole confirmation "hocus pocus" routine.

Mezro...13 years old...the age that Catholic Priests covet the most...:rolleyes:

[Mezro]

Originally posted by knuckleboner
oh, i hear you, bro. i'm not saying that logic tells you which religion to follow. could be budda, could be allah, could be something completely new and different.

but there's a supreme being somewhere. because if whatever created us ISN'T an omnipotent being, then who/what created our creator? eventually, i think logic has a supreme being in there somewhere.

while i have my opinions on the intentions and nature of THAT supreme being, the only thing i can say about "him" with any certainty is that "he's" definitely not a hagar fan...

There is something out there that rules us all...and it may come back to wipe the slate clean. Who knows, but it certainly opens the mind to wander and ponder.

Mezro...it would be fucked up if an alien race created its entire culture around the lyrics to Up For Breakfast...

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by knuckleboner
still, personally, i don't think the ultimate deity cares which one (or even any) that we choose. he/she/it just wants us to lead a good, decent life. whatever we use to help us in that is fine.


Not according to the bible though...

Live a wonderful kind charitable life but have no Christian faith and it's the flames for you.

I think the church added that bit to stop people giving all their money to the poor instead of them.

Cheers!

:gulp:

[Satan]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
Not according to the bible though...

Live a wonderful kind charitable life but have no Christian faith and it's the flames for you.



You say that like it's a bad thing? :(

[davidbmc]

You people are reading WAY too much of the da vinci code. there are 20 books out showing how the guy got so many facts wrong it unbelievable.

btw, da vinci wasn;t AT the last supper to paint the picture so how does he know who was there?

furthermore, the old testament canon was completed and accepted by the jews before christ was ever born...so the ot at least was not manipulated by constantine.

part two, the nt canon was complete long before constantine...again too much dan brownism going on!

btw, it was a great book (da vinci code) just full of historical errors.

[Katydid]

Originally posted by Warham
People have to influence their children on issues of faith, morality, politics, etc. I'd rather influence my daughter than have other children influence her. They've got to have a good moral compass in life, and parents provide it.

My cousin didn't get a good moral compass from his parents. Now, he's in jail for 6 years for breaking into vending machines. Also had a kid of out wedlock at, I believe, 17 years of age. Schlub. Also dropped out of school at 16. Not only did he not get moral guidance, he didn't get any guidance period, and his parents are to blame.

You can tell who's got kids and who doesn't.


You are right. If you take your kids to church and school events, teach them morals and values...They have a much better chance at life.

There is more to life than what ya'll have here. You need GOD to fill your emptiness. The emptiness that drugs, alcohol, sex, porn, rock and roll, the seven deadly sins or nothing else of the Devil can fill.

GOD deserves one day of your week, and your tithes or you'll never reach contentment, prosper, or have satisfaction. Restless is the heart until it rests with GOD.

Dear GOD, Please forgive our sins, faults and failures. Please forgive the things we have done, and the things we have failed to do. Never let us pretend we don't need you as the things of the world run thru our brains.

Please put your white light of protection and unconditional love around us. Please lead, guide, guard, direct and protect us in all our ways. Now and forever.

Thank you for the many blessings in our lives, our family, friends, and loved ones.

Please let your will (not our weak wills) be done on Earth as it is in Heaven.

Thank you for not allowing the Devil to put more burdens on us than we can handle; Because burdens are not of you but of the Devil. Thank you for getting us thru the Devils tests and temptations. Because the Devil failed and was kicked from Heaven. GOD NEVER FAILS...

We ask the Virgin Mary, Jesus, St. Joseph, the apostales, St. Michel, and all the Heavenly angels, saints and arch angels (and Heavenly Hosts) to pray also for us to our GOD.

AMEN


Can any of you find anything in this world that is FREE to make you feel any better than that? To fill your emptiness? I can't.

[FORD]

Why do you freeper nutcases always spell GOD in capital letters. Do you think you have to shout His name to get His attention or something?

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
Not according to the bible though...

Live a wonderful kind charitable life but have no Christian faith and it's the flames for you.




That's a fact. I find it amazing that those who don't believe go out of their way to chide or lampoon those who do. You'd think they would have better things to do... like go hooliganize their local rugby match. :gulp:

[Seshmeister]

I'll stop lampooning the Christians when

a) They start acting like Christians and give all their money to the poor and stop killing people or advocating them being killed.

b) They stop using obscure old testament passages as am excuse for basically any sort of scumbag immoral behaviour to their fellow humans.

c) They stop accumulating wealth and spend it on the needy.

d) They stop causing the spread AIDs in the 3rd world while fucking our childrebn at home.

e) They stop imposing their superstitions on everyone else. Why not make every Friday 13th a holiday? Makes as much sense.

Cheers!

:gulp:

[rustoffa]

Originally posted by FORD
Why do you freeper nutcases always spell GOD in capital letters. Do you think you have to shout His name to get His attention or something?

*sides hurting*:D

[Mezro]

I hope God shows up and starts humping everything like Mr.Peepers.

Mezro...fuck...our lord and saviour just came on my leg...

[Warham]

Originally posted by Katydid


We ask the Virgin Mary, Jesus, St. Joseph, the apostales, St. Michel, and all the Heavenly angels, saints and arch angels (and Heavenly Hosts) to pray also for us to our GOD.

AMEN


Can any of you find anything in this world that is FREE to make you feel any better than that? To fill your emptiness? I can't.

Christians aren't supposed to ask Mary, Joseph, the apostles, Michael and the angels to pray for them. Mary, Joseph and the apostles are dead and incapable of praying for you, and the angels do not want to be glorified in the way you seek.

Why would you ask Mary or Joseph, who were sinners just like you are, to pray for you? Why don't you do it yourself?

Sounds like you are Catholic.

[Osama Bin Laden]

Originally posted by knuckleboner
could be allah

Not could be. IS Allah. And Mohammed is His Prophet.

[Osama Bin Laden]

Originally posted by Warham
Christians aren't supposed to ask Mary, Joseph, the apostles, Michael and the angels to pray for them. Mary, Joseph and the apostles are dead and incapable of praying for you, and the angels do not want to be glorified in the way you seek.

Why would you ask Mary or Joseph, who were sinners just like you are, to pray for you? Why don't you do it yourself?

Sounds like you are Catholic.

Why would you assume Allah has a son?

Jesus was a great prophet but Allah has no children. To say so is blaspheming his sacred name.

[WACF]

Originally posted by knuckleboner
no doubt. sure, some people convert as adults. but most stay with their originial.

still, personally, i don't think the ultimate deity cares which one (or even any) that we choose. he/she/it just wants us to lead a good, decent life. whatever we use to help us in that is fine.

Well put...it is a point many just do not get...whether they be devout or an non-believer.

[Osama Bin Laden]

In the name of Allah, the Compassionate, the Merciful.

057.001
YUSUFALI: Whatever is in the heavens and on earth,- let it declare the Praises and Glory of Allah: for He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise.
PICKTHAL: All that is in the heavens and the earth glorifieth Allah; and He is the Mighty, the Wise.
SHAKIR: Whatever is in the heavens and the earth declares the glory of Allah, and He is the Mighty, the Wise.

057.002
YUSUFALI: To Him belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth: It is He Who gives Life and Death; and He has Power over all things.
PICKTHAL: His is the Sovereignty of the heavens and the earth; He quickeneth and He giveth death; and He is Able to do all things.
SHAKIR: His is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth; He gives life and causes death; and He has power over all things.

057.003
YUSUFALI: He is the First and the Last, the Evident and the Immanent: and He has full knowledge of all things.
PICKTHAL: He is the First and the Last, and the Outward and the Inward; and He is Knower of all things.
SHAKIR: He is the First and the Last and the Ascendant (over all) and the Knower of hidden things, and He is Cognizant of all things.

057.004
YUSUFALI: He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in Six Days, and is moreover firmly established on the Throne (of Authority). He knows what enters within the earth and what comes forth out of it, what comes down from heaven and what mounts up to it. And He is with you wheresoever ye may be. And Allah sees well all that ye do.
PICKTHAL: He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days; then He mounted the Throne. He knoweth all that entereth the earth and all that emergeth therefrom and all that cometh down from the sky and all that ascendeth therein; and He is with you wheresoever ye may be. And Allah is Seer of what ye do.
SHAKIR: He it is who created the heavens and the earth in six periods, and He is firm in power; He knows that which goes deep down into the earth and that which comes forth out of it, and that which comes down from the heaven and that which goes up into it, and He is with you wherever you are; and Allah sees what you do.

057.005
YUSUFALI: To Him belongs the dominion of the heavens and the earth: and all affairs are referred back to Allah.
PICKTHAL: His is the Sovereignty of the heavens and the earth, and unto Allah (all) things are brought back.
SHAKIR: His is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth; and to Allah are (all) affairs returned.

057.006
YUSUFALI: He merges Night into Day, and He merges Day into Night; and He has full knowledge of the secrets of (all) hearts.
PICKTHAL: He causeth the night to pass into the day, and He causeth the day to pass into the night, and He is knower of all that is in the breasts.
SHAKIR: He causes the night to enter in upon the day, and causes the day to enter in upon the night, and He is Cognizant of what is in the hearts.

057.007
YUSUFALI: Believe in Allah and His messenger, and spend (in charity) out of the (substance) whereof He has made you heirs. For, those of you who believe and spend (in charity),- for them is a great Reward.
PICKTHAL: Believe in Allah and His messenger, and spend of that whereof He hath made you trustees; and such of you as believe and spend (aright), theirs will be a great reward.
SHAKIR: Believe in Allah and His Messenger, and spend out of what He has made you to be successors of; for those of you who believe and spend shall have a great reward.

057.008
YUSUFALI: What cause have ye why ye should not believe in Allah?- and the Messenger invites you to believe in your Lord, and has indeed taken your Covenant, if ye are men of Faith.
PICKTHAL: What aileth you that ye believe not in Allah, when the messenger calleth you to believe in your Lord, and He hath already made a covenant with you, if ye are believers?
SHAKIR: And what reason have you that you should not believe in Allah? And the Messenger calls on you that you may believe in your Lord, and indeed He has made a covenant with you if you are believers.

057.009
YUSUFALI: He is the One Who sends to His Servant Manifest Signs, that He may lead you from the depths of Darkness into the Light and verily Allah is to you most kind and Merciful.
PICKTHAL: He it is Who sendeth down clear revelations unto His slave, that He may bring you forth from darkness unto light; and lo! for you, Allah is Full of Pity, Merciful.
SHAKIR: He it is who sends down clear communications upon His servant, that he may bring you forth from utter darkness into light; and most surely Allah is Kind, Merciful to you.

057.010
YUSUFALI: And what cause have ye why ye should not spend in the cause of Allah?- For to Allah belongs the heritage of the heavens and the earth. Not equal among you are those who spent (freely) and fought, before the Victory, (with those who did so later). Those are higher in rank than those who spent (freely) and fought afterwards. But to all has Allah promised a goodly (reward). And Allah is well acquainted with all that ye do.
PICKTHAL: And what aileth you that ye spend not in the way of Allah when unto Allah belongeth the inheritance of the heavens and the earth? Those who spent and fought before the victory are not upon a level (with the rest of you). Such are greater in rank than those who spent and fought afterwards. Unto each hath Allah promised good. And Allah is Informed of what ye do.
SHAKIR: And what reason have you that you should not spend in Allah's way? And Allah's is the inheritance of the heavens and the earth, not alike among you are those who spent before the victory and fought (and those who did not): they are more exalted in rank than those who spent and fought afterwards; and Allah has promised good to all; and Allah is Aware of what you do.

057.011
YUSUFALI: Who is he that will Loan to Allah a beautiful loan? for (Allah) will increase it manifold to his credit, and he will have (besides) a liberal Reward.
PICKTHAL: Who is he that will lend unto Allah a goodly loan, that He may double it for him and his may be a rich reward?
SHAKIR: Who is there that will offer to Allah a good gift so He will double it for him, and he shall have an excellent reward.

057.012
YUSUFALI: One Day shalt thou see the believing men and the believing women- how their Light runs forward before them and by their right hands: (their greeting will be): "Good News for you this Day! Gardens beneath which flow rivers! to dwell therein for aye! This is indeed the highest Achievement!"
PICKTHAL: On the day when thou (Muhammad) wilt see the believers, men and women, their light shining forth before them and on their right hands, (and wilt hear it said unto them): Glad news for you this day: Gardens underneath which rivers flow, wherein ye are immortal. That is the supreme triumph.
SHAKIR: On that day you will see the faithful men and the faithful women-- their light running before them and on their right hand-- good news for you today: gardens beneath which rivers flow, to abide therein, that is the grand achievement.

057.013
YUSUFALI: One Day will the Hypocrites- men and women - say to the Believers: "Wait for us! Let us borrow (a Light) from your Light!" It will be said: "Turn ye back to your rear! then seek a Light (where ye can)!" So a wall will be put up betwixt them, with a gate therein. Within it will be Mercy throughout, and without it, all alongside, will be (Wrath and) Punishment!
PICKTHAL: On the day when the hypocritical men and the hypocritical women will say unto those who believe: Look on us that we may borrow from your light! it will be said: Go back and seek for light! Then there will separate them a wall wherein is a gate, the inner side whereof containeth mercy, while the outer side thereof is toward the doom.
SHAKIR: On the day when the hypocritical men and the hypocritical women will say to those who believe: Wait for us, that we may have light from your light; it shall be said: Turn back and seek a light. Then separation would be brought about between them, with a wall having a door in it; (as for) the inside of it, there shall be mercy in it, and (as for) the outside of it, before it there shall be punishment.

057.014
YUSUFALI: (Those without) will call out, "Were we not with you?" (The others) will reply, "True! but ye led yourselves into temptation; ye looked forward (to our ruin); ye doubted (Allah's Promise); and (your false) desires deceived you; until there issued the Command of Allah. And the Deceiver deceived you in respect of Allah.
PICKTHAL: They will cry unto them (saying): Were we not with you? They will say: Yea, verily; but ye tempted one another, and hesitated, and doubted, and vain desires beguiled you till the ordinance of Allah came to pass; and the deceiver deceived you concerning Allah;
SHAKIR: They will cry out to them: Were we not with you? They shall say: Yea! but you caused yourselves to fall into temptation, and you waited and doubted, and vain desires deceived you till the threatened punishment of Allah came, while the archdeceiver deceived you about Allah.

057.015
YUSUFALI: "This Day shall no ransom be accepted of you, nor of those who rejected Allah." Your abode is the Fire: that is the proper place to claim you: and an evil refuge it is!"
PICKTHAL: So this day no ransom can be taken from you nor from those who disbelieved. Your home is the Fire; that is your patron, and a hapless journey's end.
SHAKIR: So today ransom shall not be accepted from you nor from those who disbelieved; your abode is the fire; it is your friend and evil is the resort.

057.016
YUSUFALI: Has not the Time arrived for the Believers that their hearts in all humility should engage in the remembrance of Allah and of the Truth which has been revealed (to them), and that they should not become like those to whom was given Revelation aforetime, but long ages passed over them and their hearts grew hard? For many among them are rebellious transgressors.
PICKTHAL: Is not the time ripe for the hearts of those who believe to submit to Allah's reminder and to the truth which is revealed, that they become not as those who received the scripture of old but the term was prolonged for them and so their hearts were hardened, and many of them are evil-livers.
SHAKIR: Has not the time yet come for those who believe that their hearts should be humble for the remembrance of Allah and what has come down of the truth? And that they should not be like those who were given the Book before, but the time became prolonged to them, so their hearts hardened, and most of them are transgressors.

057.017
YUSUFALI: Know ye (all) that Allah giveth life to the earth after its death! already have We shown the Signs plainly to you, that ye may learn wisdom.
PICKTHAL: Know that Allah quickeneth the earth after its death. We have made clear Our revelations for you, that haply ye may understand.
SHAKIR: Know that Allah gives life to the earth after its death; indeed, We have made the communications clear to you that you may understand.

057.018
YUSUFALI: For those who give in Charity, men and women, and loan to Allah a Beautiful Loan, it shall be increased manifold (to their credit), and they shall have (besides) a liberal reward.
PICKTHAL: Lo! those who give alms, both men and women, and lend unto Allah a goodly loan, it will be doubled for them, and theirs will be a rich reward.
SHAKIR: Surely (as for) the charitable men and the charitable women and (those who) set apart for Allah a goodly portion, it shall be doubled for them and they shall have a noble reward.

057.019
YUSUFALI: And those who believe in Allah and His messengers- they are the Sincere (lovers of Truth), and the witnesses (who testify), in the eyes of their Lord: They shall have their Reward and their Light. But those who reject Allah and deny Our Signs,- they are the Companions of Hell-Fire.
PICKTHAL: And those who believe in Allah and His messengers, they are the loyal, and the martyrs are with their Lord; they have their reward and their light; while as for those who disbelieve and deny Our revelations, they are owners of hell-fire.
SHAKIR: And (as for) those who believe in Allah and His messengers, these it is that are the truthful and the faithful ones in the sight of their Lord: they shall have their reward and their light, and (as for) those who disbelieve and reject Our communications, these are the inmates of the hell.

057.020
YUSUFALI: Know ye (all), that the life of this world is but play and amusement, pomp and mutual boasting and multiplying, (in rivalry) among yourselves, riches and children. Here is a similitude: How rain and the growth which it brings forth, delight (the hearts of) the tillers; soon it withers; thou wilt see it grow yellow; then it becomes dry and crumbles away. But in the Hereafter is a Penalty severe (for the devotees of wrong). And Forgiveness from Allah and (His) Good Pleasure (for the devotees of Allah). And what is the life of this world, but goods and chattels of deception?
PICKTHAL: Know that the life of the world is only play, and idle talk, and pageantry, and boasting among you, and rivalry in respect of wealth and children; as the likeness of vegetation after rain, whereof the growth is pleasing to the husbandman, but afterward it drieth up and thou seest it turning yellow, then it becometh straw. And in the Hereafter there is grievous punishment, and (also) forgiveness from Allah and His good pleasure, whereas the life of the world is but matter of illusion.
SHAKIR: Know that this world's life is only sport and play and gaiety and boasting among yourselves, and a vying in the multiplication of wealth and children, like the rain, whose causing the vegetation to grow, pleases the husbandmen, then it withers away so that you will see it become yellow, then it becomes dried up and broken down; and in the hereafter is a severe chastisement and (also) forgiveness from Allah and (His) pleasure; and this world's life is naught but means of deception.

057.021
YUSUFALI: Be ye foremost (in seeking) Forgiveness from your Lord, and a Garden (of Bliss), the width whereof is as the width of heaven and earth, prepared for those who believe in Allah and His messengers: that is the Grace of Allah, which He bestows on whom he pleases: and Allah is the Lord of Grace abounding.
PICKTHAL: Race one with another for forgiveness from your Lord and a Garden whereof the breadth is as the breadth of the heavens and the earth, which is in store for those who believe in Allah and His messengers. Such is the bounty of Allah, which He bestoweth upon whom He will, and Allah is of Infinite Bounty.
SHAKIR: Hasten to forgiveness from your Lord and to a garden the extensiveness of which is as the extensiveness of the heaven and the earth; it is prepared for those who believe in Allah and His messengers; that is the grace of Allah: He gives it to whom He pleases, and Allah is the Lord of mighty grace.

057.022
YUSUFALI: No misfortune can happen on earth or in your souls but is recorded in a decree before We bring it into existence: That is truly easy for Allah:
PICKTHAL: Naught of disaster befalleth in the earth or in yourselves but it is in a Book before we bring it into being - Lo! that is easy for Allah -
SHAKIR: No evil befalls on the earth nor in your own souls, but it is in a book before We bring it into existence; surely that is easy to Allah:

057.023
YUSUFALI: In order that ye may not despair over matters that pass you by, nor exult over favours bestowed upon you. For Allah loveth not any vainglorious boaster,-
PICKTHAL: That ye grieve not for the sake of that which hath escaped you, nor yet exult because of that which hath been given. Allah loveth not all prideful boasters,
SHAKIR: So that you may not grieve for what has escaped you, nor be exultant at what He has given you; and Allah does not love any arrogant boaster:

057.024
YUSUFALI: Such persons as are covetous and commend covetousness to men. And if any turn back (from Allah's Way), verily Allah is Free of all Needs, Worthy of all Praise.
PICKTHAL: Who hoard and who enjoin upon the people avarice. And whosoever turneth away, still Allah is the Absolute, the Owner of Praise.
SHAKIR: Those who are niggardly and enjoin niggardliness on men; and whoever turns back, then surely Allah is He Who is the Selfsufficient, the Praised.

057.025
YUSUFALI: We sent aforetime our messengers with Clear Signs and sent down with them the Book and the Balance (of Right and Wrong), that men may stand forth in justice; and We sent down Iron, in which is (material for) mighty war, as well as many benefits for mankind, that Allah may test who it is that will help, Unseen, Him and His messengers: For Allah is Full of Strength, Exalted in Might (and able to enforce His Will).
PICKTHAL: We verily sent Our messengers with clear proofs, and revealed with them the Scripture and the Balance, that mankind may observe right measure; and He revealed iron, wherein is mighty power and (many) uses for mankind, and that Allah may know him who helpeth Him and His messengers, though unseen. Lo! Allah is Strong, Almighty.
SHAKIR: Certainly We sent Our messengers with clear arguments, and sent down with them the Book and the balance that men may conduct themselves with equity; and We have made the iron, wherein is great violence and advantages to men, and that Allah may know who helps Him and His messengers in the secret; surely Allah is Strong, Mighty.

057.026
YUSUFALI: And We sent Noah and Abraham, and established in their line Prophethood and Revelation: and some of them were on right guidance. But many of them became rebellious transgressors.
PICKTHAL: And We verily sent Noah and Abraham and placed the prophethood and the scripture among their seed, and among them there is he who goeth right, but many of them are evil-livers.
SHAKIR: And certainly We sent Nuh and Ibrahim and We gave to their offspring the (gift of) prophecy and the Book; so there are among them those who go aright, and most of them are transgressors.

057.027
YUSUFALI: Then, in their wake, We followed them up with (others of) Our messengers: We sent after them Jesus the son of Mary, and bestowed on him the Gospel; and We ordained in the hearts of those who followed him Compassion and Mercy. But the Monasticism which they invented for themselves, We did not prescribe for them: (We commanded) only the seeking for the Good Pleasure of Allah; but that they did not foster as they should have done. Yet We bestowed, on those among them who believed, their (due) reward, but many of them are rebellious transgressors.
PICKTHAL: Then We caused Our messengers to follow in their footsteps; and We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow, and gave him the Gospel, and placed compassion and mercy in the hearts of those who followed him. But monasticism they invented - We ordained it not for them - only seeking Allah's pleasure, and they observed it not with right observance. So We give those of them who believe their reward, but many of them are evil-livers.
SHAKIR: Then We made Our messengers to follow in their footsteps, and We sent Isa son of Marium afterwards, and We gave him the Injeel, and We put in the hearts of those who followed him kindness and mercy; and (as for) monkery, they innovated it-- We did not prescribe it to them-- only to seek Allah's pleasure, but they did not observe it with its due observance; so We gave to those of them who believed their reward, and most of them are transgressors.

057.028
YUSUFALI: O ye that believe! Fear Allah, and believe in His Messenger, and He will bestow on you a double portion of His Mercy: He will provide for you a Light by which ye shall walk (straight in your path), and He will forgive you (your past): for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! Be mindful of your duty to Allah and put faith in His messenger. He will give you twofold of His mercy and will appoint for you a light wherein ye shall walk, and will forgive you. Allah is Forgiving, Merciful;
SHAKIR: O you who believe! be careful of (your duty to) Allah and believe in His Messenger: He will give you two portions of His mercy, and make for you a light with which you will walk, and forgive you, and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful;

057.029
YUSUFALI: That the People of the Book may know that they have no power whatever over the Grace of Allah, that (His) Grace is (entirely) in His Hand, to bestow it on whomsoever He wills. For Allah is the Lord of Grace abounding.
PICKTHAL: That the People of the Scripture may know that they control naught of the bounty of Allah, but that the bounty is in Allah's hand to give to whom He will. And Allah is of Infinite Bounty.
SHAKIR: So that the followers of the Book may know that they do not control aught of the grace of Allah, and that grace is in Allah's hand, He gives it to whom He pleases; and Allah is the Lord of mighty grace.

[Jesus Christ]

Originally posted by Mezro
I hope God shows up and starts humping everything like Mr.Peepers.

Mezro...fuck...our lord and saviour just came on my leg...

**searches for a plague of locusts.....**

[ODShowtime]

Thanks for straightening us out Osama.

[turboblues]

Originally posted by pete
The Coran is written for the .......... Intellectually challenged.

Religion for dummies. Every religion is...

[Jesus Christ]

Originally posted by turboblues
Every religion is...

Depends on what ye meaneth by "religion", My son.

[Figs]

Uh, Mr. Christ (may I call you Jesus?),

Your position on Roth vs Hagar?

Osama gave Roth's music the nod, but couldn't officially endorse a Jew. Please put Dave's faith aside in your answer.

[Angel]

Want a good giggle on the subject? Read the book "Lamb: The Gospel according to Bif, Christ's childhood friend." Excellent comedic read, but I wouldn't recommend it for devout christians, you may end up with your undies in a knot. ;)

[Jesus Christ]

Originally posted by Figs
Uh, Mr. Christ (may I call you Jesus?),

I am known by many names, My son. Jesus. Yeshuah. Isa. Emmanuel. The Lamb of God, just to name a few. :)

Your position on Roth vs Hagar?

Osama gave Roth's music the nod, but couldn't officially endorse a Jew. Please put Dave's faith aside in your answer.

Why would I put David's faith aside, when I myself am a Jew? In fact, I am the King of the Jews!

And verily, it shall be from the Temple in Jerusalem that the Messiah shall reign for 1,000 years. And that day shall be sooner than ye may think.

Dad and I love all of our children equally, but that does not mean that We have to love their cheese ballads. And there is no question that Samuel the descendant of Abraham's handmaiden Hagar hath destroyed what David the Chosen One did create with the Sons of Jan :(

[Snow Ho]

Originally posted by Jesus Christ
Why would I put David's faith aside, when I myself am a Jew? In fact, I am the King of the Jews!

And verily, it shall be from the Temple in Jerusalem that the Messiah shall reign for 1,000 years. And that day shall be sooner than ye may think.

Dad and I love all of our children equally, but that does not mean that We have to love their cheese ballads. And there is no question that Samuel the descendant of Abraham's handmaiden Hagar hath destroyed what David the Chosen One did create with the Sons of Jan :(

if you do not like hagar cheese ballads, what do you think of the cheesy songs sung in your name namely the ones played on k-love i have to hear every day at work :cheese:

[conmee]

As my good friend Marx remarked (Karl, not Richard), "Religion is the opiate of the masses." Indeed, organized religions have been responsible for much more suffering in this world than salvation. But as a Catholic, I will not tempt my fate with my Maker or risk purgatory in expounding my own unique belief system, other than to say:

WE ARE AN ALIEN EXPERIMENT!!!! Look, it's quite simple. The Uber-Aliens, as I call them, came down to Earth millions of years ago, saw that the dinosaurs were a pretty dull lot, and wiped them the fook out! Once they had properly 'cleansed' the Earth, they conducted various cross-mating experiments with the small mammals that survived the 'extinction' and eventually happened upon a fairly unique mix of primate and alien DNA resulting in modern man.

They come back every few thousand years to survey the land, check on the results of their experiments and basically keep tabs on how we're doing. Sorta like, how should I put it... an ALIEN ANT FARM! No relation to the band....

Anyhoo... the aliens have been causing wailiing and gnashing of teeth for millenia. They are described as angels riding firey chariots in Ezekiel.... Moses, Abraham, David, even Jesus... you guessed it... all ALIENS!!!! Religion was just "Aliens for Dummies" earthling-style. Religion was a great substitute for reasoning and examination of empirical data. With the Enlightenment, alien-bred mankind got full of itself, thinking nothing was beyond human comprehension or rational explanation... and religion, the Bible, the whole ball of wax started to fall into disfavor... plus, when the landlord (Jesus) is gone for so long, people just start treating the world like they have run-of-house and can fuck up the environment, enslave and kill each other, etc. But the aliens will be back, maybe even a-la-Independence Day... but having been privy to that movie's plot, they won't make the mistake of using our satellite systems or of pissing off Will Smith.... BUT.... they will be back, and they'll right the wrongs, and vaporize the sub-optimal 'sinners' and bring the 'holy folk' back to Centauri 7 or wherever the hell they make their homes... and that will be the 'heaven' we've all read about...

As for all the Bible research.. it is interesting indeed, if only from a historical and literary standpoint. But Roswell, NM holds more answers than the Bible, and that's where FORD and I agree, I daresay.... lmao

;->

Icon.

[Jesus Christ]

Live Long and Prosper, My son ;)

[Figs]

Originally posted by Jesus Christ
Why would I put David's faith aside, when I myself am a Jew? In fact, I am the King of the Jews!

Yes I know, I just thought that those who remained Jewish didn't buy into it.




And verily, it shall be from the Temple in Jerusalem that the Messiah shall reign for 1,000 years. And that day shall be sooner than ye may think.

Dad and I love all of our children equally, but that does not mean that We have to love their cheese ballads. And there is no question that Samuel the descendant of Abraham's handmaiden Hagar hath destroyed what David the Chosen One did create with the Sons of Jan :(

Thank you, Lord. Who could argue with that? I guess I can't ask thou to smite Samuel... but thanks anyway!

Maybe I'll start going back to church again...

[Jesus Christ]

Originally posted by Snow Ho
if you do not like hagar cheese ballads, what do you think of the cheesy songs sung in your name namely the ones played on k-love i have to hear every day at work :cheese:

The scriptures say "Make a joyful noise unto the Lord". While that may leaveth much open to subjective interpretation, I can appreciate the effort of anyone who genuinely attempts to write a song to praise My name. The cheesier ones don't go in My I-POD though :)