Rafael Palmeiro--most empty stats ever?

[Lou]

This guy must have the most empty stats ever. I don't care about having 500+ homers (not to mention in the homer-friendly '90s and '00s), he is NOT a hall of famer in my opinion. He's not a winner, never was, and seems to be about himself. This guy is purely numbers and nothing else. Only leaders deserve to be in the Hall and this guy is not a leader; he just goes out and gets stats. Of course he's talented but he's simply not HOF material, and anyone who votes him in has watered-down standards.

[Snake]

Eddie Murray had the most empty stats ever.

I don't get the irrational Palmeiro hate.

Maybe its the mustache

[Figs]

My only beef with him (not his fault though) was when he got a gold glove in a year he played like 20 games in the field, and the rest at DH. Not sure what year, but I think it was his only gold glove.

[Snake]

he's had more gold gloves

he didnt deserve one that year

[Mama's Fool]

For some reason the press looks at the numbers. He was never a dominant player in his era. Henceforth, Rafael, the Crimedog, and Jose Canseco don't deserve to go.

[Lou]

Originally posted by Snake
Eddie Murray had the most empty stats ever.

I don't get the irrational Palmeiro hate.

Maybe its the mustache

Eddie Murray did win a championship right? Just checking.

It's not irrational, Palmeiro is annoying. With the Viagra ads, yeah the smug look on his face, that he's just hanging around anymore making big bucks.

Crimedog deserves to go to the HOF more than Palmeiro does. I guess my big problem is that he'll go to the HOF without a problem, simply because he has 500 homers, most of them in the live-ball era.

[ALinChainz]

Originally posted by Lou
Eddie Murray did win a championship right? Just checking.

It's not irrational, Palmeiro is annoying. With the Viagra ads, yeah the smug look on his face, that he's just hanging around anymore making big bucks.

Crimedog deserves to go to the HOF more than Palmeiro does. I guess my big problem is that he'll go to the HOF without a problem, simply because he has 500 homers, most of them in the live-ball era.

You can say that about a lot of the home run hitters though. He isn't the only one to benefit.

9 straight seasons of 100+ rbi, including highs of 142 and 148.

9 straight seasons of 30+ homers.

Only struck out over 100 times once in his career.

22 SBs one season. He has pretty good stats in my opinion. Didn't go into slugging pct, none of that.

I will agree with the Viagra thing, and that I hope McGriff makes it.

[Va Beach VH Fan]

So going by your rationale Lou, I'm thinking you don't think Edgar Martinez would go to the HOF either, correct ???

[Lou]

Absolutely not. No way, no how. Now Edgar is a great guy, but HOF--no. Mark Grace (who I don't think is a HOFer) deserves to get in before him.

[Lou]

One more thing--my opinion you absolutely positively have to be a leader to get into the HOF. Was Rafael Palmeiro a leader? Fuck no. All about the stats baby.

The more I think about it, the more ridiculous it is to try to bring Eddie Murray down. Eddie Murray was a model of consistency and a flat-out winner.

[Warham]

Andre Dawson and Ryne Sandberg deserve to go in before any of those guys.

[High Life Man]

Ryno will be in next year.

Raf will get in too.

It's time to reevaluate stats for HOF inclusion.

[Snake]

Eddie Murray was the Trent Dilfer of baseball

[Snake]

And make sure to keep Barry Bonds out of the hall; no championships and no leadership.

Maybe if Raffy was a roided up black man people would like him better.

Its clear to any unbiased baseball fan that Raffy has been one of the most dominant 1st basemen of his era

[Lou]

Originally posted by Warham
Andre Dawson and Ryne Sandberg deserve to go in before any of those guys.

I don't think they deserve to go in either. Hell a lot of Cubs here past and present that fall under the category "very good" but not HOF-worthy:

Mark Grace
Ryne Sandberg
Andre Dawson
Fred McGriff

BTW whoever keeps defending Rafael Palmeiro, answer me this:

WAS HE A LEADER? Because if the answer is no, then by default you shouldn't be in the HOF. That's what the HOF is, leaders and winners.

[Warham]

I'll make a case for 'ole Andre:

20 full seasons
2774 hits
503 doubles
98 triples
438 home runs
1591 runs batted in
314 stolen bases
.279 career batting average

only one of 4 players in ML history with 400 hr and 300 sb. Others are:
Willie Mays, Bobby Bonds, Barry Bonds

Also held record of 12 consecutive seasons of 10hr/10sb, until Barry Bonds broke that record.

Holds record with 5 intentional walks in one game.

1977 NL Rookie of the Year
1987 NL MVP (Runner up in 1981 and 1983)
8-time All-Star

8 Gold Glove awards (6 straight from '80-'85)

[Snoo]

Murray helped drive the Mets straight into the ground starting in 1992, and he was also on those OUTSTANDING Indian teams of the mid 90's that could never quite win the Series.

[Lou]

Originally posted by Snoo
Murray helped drive the Mets straight into the ground starting in 1992, and he was also on those OUTSTANDING Indian teams of the mid 90's that could never quite win the Series.

Well Eddie Murray won a WS in 1983 did he not? BTW that was also Cal Ripken's only WS, and you can argue that by hanging around he drove the Orioles into the ground in the '90s but that's another debate.

You know Greg Maddux and Randy Johnson only won one World Series, I guess they shouldn't be in the hall as one is not enough for you. Same with Nolan Ryan. Or Mike Schmidt or Steve Carlton.

Anyway you still didn't answer my question as to whether Rafael Palmeiro was a leader or not. That's OK because I know the answer, which is no. Throughout his career he didn't give any indication whatsoever of leadership.

BTW I'm all for keeping Barry Bonds & Mark McGwire out of the HOF because they cheated. In Bonds' case though, it's a shame because he's so naturally talented, he didn't have to cheat. If he didn't cheat he'd still easily have 500 HR's.

Here's another ballplayer that has 500 HR's that should not get in: Sammy Sosa. Another fuckin' CHEATER, and not a leader.

[Snoo]

Yeah, he won with the Orioles, I'm just saying he was a terrible leader once he got into his 30's. I don't think Ripken damaged the Orioles much. That little pissant 12 year old Jeffrey whateverthefuck in 1996 damaged the Orioles. Ever hear Sosa's reasoning for his sudden power? "After three years I got my eyes fixed and now I can see better." HAH.