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View Full Version : Arnie's Coming people...don't doubt it...



Top Jimmy
02-26-2004, 05:47 AM
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Arnold Schwarzenegger, making his Sunday talk show debut as governor, said that he and other foreign-born citizens should be eligible to run for the White House and that President Bush can carry California in November if he does more to help the state.

The Austrian-born former bodybuilder, in the capital for his first meeting with fellow governors, said he has not thought about running for president. The Constitution says only natural-born U.S. citizens are eligible for the country's highest office.

The Republican governor said anyone who has been a U.S. citizen for at least 20 years -- as he has -- should "absolutely" be able to seek the presidency. A constitutional amendment proposed by Sen. Orrin Hatch, a Utah Republican, would make that possible.

"There are so many people in this country that are now from overseas, that are immigrants, that are doing such a terrific job with their work, bringing businesses here, that there's no reason why not," said Schwarzenegger, who became a U.S. citizen in 1983.

"Look at the kind of contribution that people like Henry Kissinger have made, Madeleine Albright," he said, referring to two former secretaries of state who were born in Europe.

Schwarzenegger said on NBC's "Meet the Press" that he has been too busy with California's problems to contemplate a future run for the White House. "I have no idea, I haven't thought about that at all,"(YEAH RIGHT) he said.

Schwarzenegger reaffirmed his opposition to the gay marriages that are taking place in San Francisco. He said Mayor Gavin Newsom's refusal to obey the state's law against same-sex marriages could set a bad precedent. (Full story):baaa:

Top Jimmy
02-26-2004, 05:51 AM
and just LOOK at the 'salute' here.....

FORD
02-26-2004, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by Top Jimmy
and just LOOK at the 'salute' here.....

Now where have I seen a salute like that one before.....

That short guy with the funny mustache who Herr Gropenator's daddy worked for.

Oh yeah, then there's THIS asshole.......

John Ashcroft
02-26-2004, 11:46 AM
So where is free speech verboten again? Not at Free Republic... No that's not where. Not at the U.S. message boards... And who wants to outlaw guns again? Which side of the aisle is that... I seem to remember another Ammendment to our Constitution that say we can have 'em.

Refresh my memory guys.

Cathedral
02-26-2004, 12:31 PM
This whole Hitler comparison thing is starting to tick me off a tad.
Hitler was a monster, dude.
It is just plain childish and out of line to even think Bush is anything like him.

But then again, Bush is a man of faith and persecution is his burdon to bear in this society because of it.

I understand though, the same thing happened to Jesus, only he was crucified over his label.

FORD
02-26-2004, 12:35 PM
Comparing Junior to Jesus??

That oughta get you a beachfront condo - at the Lake of Fire!

knuckleboner
02-26-2004, 12:43 PM
surprisingly, i agree with orin hatch.

i understand the rationale behind the framers requiring people to be natural born citizens or citizens at the time of the creation of the U.S. but i think if someone has been a citizen, today, for at least the past 20 years, that they should be eligible to be president.

i'd vote for this amendment.

Sarge
02-26-2004, 02:24 PM
Bush is no Hitler.. he's just a chimp..

John Ashcroft
02-26-2004, 02:26 PM
I don't know about this one. I'm really not in favor of changing the Constitution at all (or at least until we shore up adherence to it in our court systems).

I do have a question though, my daughter was born in Germany while I was serving in NATO. She has dual citizenship now, and will be strictly American at the age of 18. Can she be President someday?

John Ashcroft
02-26-2004, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by Sarge
Bush is no Hitler.. he's just a chimp..

Interesting that a chimp has advanced farther in life than any of us... ;)

flappo
02-26-2004, 02:37 PM
..speak fer yerself

John Ashcroft
02-26-2004, 02:43 PM
Well, I do still scratch my balls from time to time...

FORD
02-26-2004, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by John Ashcroft
I don't know about this one. I'm really not in favor of changing the Constitution at all (or at least until we shore up adherence to it in our court systems).

I do have a question though, my daughter was born in Germany while I was serving in NATO. She has dual citizenship now, and will be strictly American at the age of 18. Can she be President someday?

Only if she's a Democrat. Republicans will never nominate a woman :D

Seriously, as long as she was born a US citizen, that's the requirement.

John Ashcroft
02-26-2004, 03:01 PM
Ah, but she wasn't. We had to apply for it post-birth. It took a couple of months.

Cathedral
02-26-2004, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by FORD
Comparing Junior to Jesus??

That oughta get you a beachfront condo - at the Lake of Fire!

Nope, just pointing out a coincidence. No comparison being made here.

Besides, i'm not the one making false claims that are based on theory with zero verifiable proof to substantiate it.
When i hear these conspiracy theories i always have to consider the source, not just if it fits my agenda or not.

FORD
02-26-2004, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by John Ashcroft
Ah, but she wasn't. We had to apply for it post-birth. It took a couple of months.

Was your wife a US citizen at the time? I was always under the impression that a child born to US citizens was automatically a citizen regardless of where he or she was born. One of my grandfathers was actually born in Hong Kong -his parents were working in China as missionaries. He was a citizen from birth as far as I know.

Hell, even my friends who recently adopted a baby in China had the paperwork taken care of so that she was a US citizen the minute the plane hit US airspace.

John Ashcroft
02-26-2004, 03:41 PM
Wife's a born and raised resident of Oklahoma (why else did you think I live in this shit-hole of a state? J.K.) I'm quite sure there are peculiar rules regarding my daughter. And I'm also pretty sure her birthplace excludes her from eligibility for the Presidency. I could be wrong.

Top Jimmy
02-26-2004, 03:42 PM
Truth be told...I'll vote for Arnie for pres if it ever happens.

knuckleboner
02-26-2004, 04:18 PM
Originally posted by John Ashcroft
Wife's a born and raised resident of Oklahoma (why else did you think I live in this shit-hole of a state? J.K.) I'm quite sure there are peculiar rules regarding my daughter. And I'm also pretty sure her birthplace excludes her from eligibility for the Presidency. I could be wrong.


glad to (mostly) prove you wrong on this one, mr. AG:

she should be eligible. the constitution only requires:


U.S. Constitution, Article II, Section 1:
No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President

(source: (http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/article02/))


so, the question remains, what is the interpretation of "natural born Citizen," since the Constitutuion does not specifically require the president to be born within the territorial boundaries of the U.S.

congress felt the need to expound on "natural born Citizen:"


U.S. Code, Title 8, Section 1401:

Section 1401. Nationals and citizens of United States at birth

The following shall be nationals and citizens of the United
States at birth:

(c) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying
possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United
States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States
or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such
person;

(d) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying
possessions of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United
States who has been physically present in the United States or
one of its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one
year prior to the birth of such person, and the other of whom is
a national, but not a citizen of the United States;

(e) a person born in an outlying possession of the United
States of parents one of whom is a citizen of the United States
who has been physically present in the United States or one of
its outlying possessions for a continuous period of one year at
any time prior to the birth of such person;

(source: (http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/ts_search.pl?title=8&sec=1401))



i think either (c) or (d) would probably apply to your daughter, making her a natural citizen from birth, according to the congress.

now, it's true, that if she were to run for president, the supreme court might ultimately have to rule on whether congress' interpretation of the constitution was proper. but, i think the congressional law is in keeping with the constitution and should be seen as valid.

dude, the lincoln bedroom's all yours!!

FORD
02-26-2004, 04:23 PM
Originally posted by John Ashcroft
Interesting that a chimp has advanced farther in life than any of us... ;)

Just think of where you could be if Poppy Bush was your old man.

FORD
02-26-2004, 04:35 PM
Originally posted by John Ashcroft
Wife's a born and raised resident of Oklahoma (why else did you think I live in this shit-hole of a state? J.K.) I'm quite sure there are peculiar rules regarding my daughter. And I'm also pretty sure her birthplace excludes her from eligibility for the Presidency. I could be wrong.

Just thought I'd ask, since it's not unusual for military guys to get married overseas. And the fact that circumstances might be more questionable in a case where the father was a US citizen, but the mother was not. Of course even that one would be solved by marriage.

Anyway, as KB pointed out, your daughter should be OK if she ever decided to run. Otherwise military families would have an actual reason to claim bias, as opposed to the fabricated lie over ineligible ballots in Florida ;)

John Ashcroft
02-26-2004, 04:53 PM
Thanks guys. I still think it has to do with the whole "possession of the United States" deal. I've heard talk on this particular subject a long time ago, while stationed in Germany, and some of it's coming back. I remember that the kids born on military bases over there were fine and dandy (I.E. US possesion). It was the people in our situation that lived out in the community that had special circumstances applied. My daughter was born in a civilian, German hospital (Heinsburg). I had to register her in the local "rathaus" (town hall, but I like their name better...). And like I've mentioned, we actually had to apply for her U.S. citizenship through the U.S. Consulate, just like any other German would have to do. I remember not liking the whole process because I thought since our situation was so obvious, and certainly not unique, that stuff like this would've been worked out long ago. I'm still not certain she qualifies.

knuckleboner
02-26-2004, 05:16 PM
i hear ya. but read (c) from 8 U.S. 1401 again:

"(c) a person born outside of the United States and its outlying
possessions of parents both of whom are citizens of the United
States and one of whom has had a residence in the United States
or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such
person;"


if you can tell me how your situation doesn't qualify your daughter for natural-born citizenship, then i'll be the first to nominate the AG for the 9th circuit!!;)

John Ashcroft
02-26-2004, 07:19 PM
Because Heinsburg Hospital isn't one of the U.S.'s outlying possesions. I'm telling ya, it's why we had to apply for citizenship rather than it being automatic.

But the interesting part is "and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person;" I think that covers us. Still, it was a strange experience, I can assure you. I had to prove we (Mrs. Ashcroft and I) were citizens of the U.S. to get her citizenship.

But anyway, I'll take that 9th Circus appointment, if I can be Chief Justice. And since they create law, I'll grant myself the authority to fire them all.

And about my daughter, she most certainly will be capable of being President some day should she decide that route. But I assure you she'll be a Conservative (or I'll disown her!). ;)

FORD
02-26-2004, 08:12 PM
Originally posted by John Ashcroft
Because Heinsburg Hospital isn't one of the U.S.'s outlying possesions. I'm telling ya, it's why we had to apply for citizenship rather than it being automatic.

But the interesting part is "and one of whom has had a residence in the United States or one of its outlying possessions, prior to the birth of such person;" I think that covers us. Still, it was a strange experience, I can assure you. I had to prove we (Mrs. Ashcroft and I) were citizens of the U.S. to get her citizenship.

But anyway, I'll take that 9th Circus appointment, if I can be Chief Justice. And since they create law, I'll grant myself the authority to fire them all.

And about my daughter, she most certainly will be capable of being President some day should she decide that route. But I assure you she'll be a Conservative (or I'll disown her!). ;)


I think you're misinterpreting the quoted law. It's not the issue of whether the hospital was a US "outlying posession" - which it clearly wasn't , being a German civilian hospital. What the law is saying is that you and your wife must be residents of the US or it's "outlying posessions" and since you're both Okies, that qualifies (I guess that's in America ;) )

Perhaps the confusion on the part of the authorities came from the fact that your daughter was born in a German hospital, rather than in a military hospital.

Not that I blame you for that, given the horror stories I hear about Madigan!

knuckleboner
02-27-2004, 12:20 PM
yeah, section (c) says that if the person was born OUTSIDE of the U.S. or it's outlying possessions, they can be citizens from birth if...

and you and your wife clearly qualify for the "if."

i think you had to apply for citizenship just to PROVE that she deserved citizenship by birth. for the knuckleboner, it wasn't necessary, since my birth certificate says, "carmel by the sea, california." even if my parents were illegal, the birth certificate alone is enough for me to be a citizen by birth.

but Ms. AG, jr.'s birth certificate says, "germany." so you had to apply for, and prove that she deserved to be a citizen by birth. and once you said you and your wife were both U.S. citizens, and that at least one of you had a residence in the U.S. or it's outlying possessions at some time prior to your daughter's birth, under (c) of 8 U.S. 1401, she qualified for citizenship by birth.

and while that hasn't technically been tested in terms of the presidency just yet, the inference (and i think the final judgment) is that means she's a "natural born Citizen," and eligible for the presidency.

however, at this point, since i've done the legwork to get her there, i'll excpect some sort of appointment. maybe the AG, if you're retiring. or maybe an ambassadorship to sweden. or maybe appointed the domestic ski czar. but something!

John Ashcroft
02-27-2004, 12:25 PM
Heh heh heh... You've got it!

knuckleboner
02-27-2004, 12:40 PM
sweet! if she's as conservative as you hope for, i promise to keep my mouth shut and not embarrass the administration with babbling. i'm just along for the ride!!

Seshmeister
02-29-2004, 09:55 PM
If she's white and rich and willing to sell her soul she has a chance.