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Sarge
02-27-2004, 05:27 PM
http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/dictat.html

The worst genocides of the 20th Century
Jozef Stalin (USSR, 1934-39) 13,000,000 (the purges)
Adolf Hitler (Germany, 1939-1945) 12,000,000 (concentration camps and civilians WWII)
Mao Tze Dong (China, 1966-69) 11,000,000 (cultural revolution)
Hideki Tojo (Japan, 1941-44) 5,000,000 (civilians WWII)
Pol Pot (Cambodia, 1975-79) 1,700,000
Kim Il Sung (North Korea, 1948-94) 1.6 million (purges and concentration camps)
Menghitsu (Ethiopia, 1975-78) 1,500,000
Ismail Enver (Turkey, 1915) 1,200,000
Charles DeGaulle (Algeria, 1954-1962) 1,000,000
Yakubu Gowon (Biafra, 1967-1970) 1,000,000
Leonid Brezhnev (Afghanistan, 1979-1982) 900,000
Jean Kambanda (Rwanda, 1994) 800,000
Suharto (East Timor, 1976-98) 600,000
Yahya Khan (Pakistan, 1971) vs Bangladesh 500,000
Savimbi (Angola, 1975-2002) 400,000
Mullah Omar (Afghanistan, 1986-2001) 400,000
Idi Amin (Uganda, 1969-1979) 300,000
Benito Mussolini (Ethiopia, 1936; Yugoslavia, 1945) 300,000
Mobutu Sese Seko (Zaire, 1965-97) ?
Charles Taylor (Liberia, 1989-1996) 220,000
Foday Sankoh (Sierra Leone, 1991-2000) 200,000
Milos Milosevic (Yugoslavia, 1992-96) 180,000
Michel Micombero (Burundi, 1972) 150,000
Saddam Hussein (Iraq, 1987-88) 100,000
Hassan Turabi (Sudan, 1989-1999) 100,000
Jean-Bedel Bokassa (Centrafrica, 1966-79) ?
Richard Nixon (Vietnam, 1969-1974) 70,000 (vietnamese civilians)
Papa Doc Duvalier (Haiti, 1957-71) 60,000
Hissene Habre (Chad, 1982-1990) 40,000
Nikolaj Lenin (USSR, 1917-20) 30,000 (dissidents executed)
Francisco Franco (Spain) 30,000 (dissidents executed after the civil war)
Lyndon Johnson (Vietnam, 1963-1968) 30,000
Hafez Al-Assad (Syria, 1980-2000) 25,000
Milosevic (Bosnia, 1995) 20,000
Khomeini (Iran, 1979-89) 20,000
Paul Koroma (Sierra Leone, 1997) 6,000
Osama bin Laden (worldwide, 1991-2001) 4,000
Augusto Pinochet (Chile, 1973) 3,000
Efrain Rios Montt (Guatemala) 2,000
Marcos (Philippines) ?

Sarge
02-27-2004, 05:27 PM
they put President Johnson and Nixon on that list

ELVIS
02-27-2004, 05:28 PM
..and FORD will put George Bush on it...

lucky wilbury
02-27-2004, 06:56 PM
they only have saddam at 100,000?! well it was in one year but what about the rest of his time.

Pink Spider
02-27-2004, 06:59 PM
Originally posted by ELVIS
..and FORD will put George Bush on it...

Yep. It definitely needs to be updated.

John Ashcroft
02-27-2004, 07:03 PM
Originally posted by lucky wilbury
they only have saddam at 100,000?! well it was in one year but what about the rest of his time.

Exactly. I've heard estimates at over one million (counting Iranians and Kuwaitis).

FORD
02-27-2004, 09:45 PM
Originally posted by ELVIS
..and FORD will put George Bush on it...

Well, between Iraqi civilians and American soldiers killed in Afghanistan and Iraq, I figure Junior should be somewhere between Koroma and Khomeni.

The list is misleading though. LBJ (in 1964) and Nixon were legitimately elected, regardless of what you think of their policies. And Osama Bin Laden has never been the head of any government , so while he's definitely a dick, he's not a dictator.

Sounds like someone spends too much time studying math and not enough time in history?

John Ashcroft
02-27-2004, 10:36 PM
Ah, but none... let me repeat that, NONE of our Presidents can be considered dictators (not even Clinton), and are therefore ineligible for this particular list.

Pink Spider
02-27-2004, 10:58 PM
The current one is eligible.

But, it doesn't really matter. Genocide is genocide, whether the people elected (or the corporate media chose) the "dictator" or not.

The list seems to be off on Johnson and Nixon anyway, Laos and Cambodia don't seem to be factored in which would have put Nixon above Pol Pot.

ELVIS
02-27-2004, 11:08 PM
Has FORD asked you to marry him yet ??

:elvis:

John Ashcroft
02-27-2004, 11:19 PM
They're kin, so I think it's still illegal in her home town... Oh, but Ford lives in Washington! A quick drive to San Francisco and they're hooked up.

ELVIS
02-27-2004, 11:26 PM
Conspiracy must run in the family...

Pink Spider
02-27-2004, 11:29 PM
It's not illegal in Oklahoma I bet.

Seshmeister
02-27-2004, 11:44 PM
Looks like a political list to me.

Some of the figures look dubious.

If Vietnam makes it where's Trueman for Hiroshima or Churchill for Dresden?

Usual BS.

One mans terrorist is anothers freedom fighter.

Osama get's 4000. I'm not even convinced of that anymore.

Why isn't Atta on the list, he'll be pissed off in hell about that?

If I had claimed them would I have got them?

Cheers!

:gulp:

BigBadBrian
02-28-2004, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by Pink Spider
Yep. It definitely needs to be updated.

Exactly. How many civilian Serbs did Bill Clinton's bombing campaign kill in the former Yugoslavia? ;)

BigBadBrian
02-28-2004, 11:16 AM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
Looks like a political list to me.

Some of the figures look dubious.

If Vietnam makes it where's Trueman for Hiroshima or Churchill for Dresden?



What's the difference between the Bombing of Dresden and a German comic?

At least the Dresden bombing can make you smile. :D



Tell that one to a German friend! ;) :gulp:

(Yeah, I know I told this on DDLR.com but felt the need to be inflammatory this morning. )

ELVIS
02-28-2004, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by Pink Spider
It's not illegal in Oklahoma I bet.

Conspiracy or incest ??

FORD
02-28-2004, 01:33 PM
Originally posted by ELVIS
Conspiracy or incest ??

Probably both! Remember, in Oklahoma, God tells TV preachers that He will "call them home" unless their viewers send in $100 million.

ELVIS
02-28-2004, 01:37 PM
LMAO !!

DLR'sCock
02-28-2004, 06:54 PM
I thought Stalin killed upwards of 20 million to 25 million actually...

steve
02-28-2004, 09:28 PM
The list is technicaly called "The worst genocides of the 20th Century".

Each instance is what the author considers a single act or string of acts to be considered one act of genocide.

Thus, Stalin's 13 million number only includes the particular purges of 1934-1939.

Anyway... What a cold list - consdensing human being into statistics like that. Not that it isn't done, but it is rather hard to transfer the horror of a mass murder by putting a number on a peice of paper.

For instance, were Timothy MacVeigh or The DC Area Snipers any less of animalistic than each of these monster dictators? After all, they "only" killed 300 and 20 people each.

obviously, I am critiqing no one here - it's just lists like that make ya think.

When I see lists like this I am reminded of Primo Levi's books on the holocaust. They are...brutally honest and astonishing works. And in them he , in a way, condems all human beings for acts of genocide like this. that is a very simple explanation of his many writings of course and only my interpretation, but in each instance, somewhere along they way there are not only the dictators...there are followers, there are the the cattle-like masses that do not question authority, and there are those outside who se what is going on and do nothing about it. This perspective does not cast the dictators in any better light - they are some bad, bad folks, but I think it goes to show there is a bad side to humanity in general for acts of this scale to continually happen throughout history.

Seshmeister
02-28-2004, 09:55 PM
It's all about how close is the death to you.

If 20,000 people die in an Earthquake in Asia it's second on the news by the day after, and disappears by the end of the week.

If 1 kid in your state gets abducted and killed then it's number 1 for weeks. Especially if it happens during the Summer when news stories are quiet.

I guess you can't blame the media it's just human nature.

Cheers!

:gulp:

Ally_Kat
02-29-2004, 02:27 AM
well as per the Asia earthquake and the kid abduction/murder, it's all about newsworthyness. The local story about the kid in this case is more important for that area than the Asian earthquake.

there's this whole freakin' list of reasons on how to stack up newsstories.

steve
02-29-2004, 11:31 PM
In this instance though, the subject is the calculated evil of man.

To be killed by nature, while not exactly great, could be argued as a far more dignified way to go.

This is not to say any single death means any less when done in by the forces of nature/chance such as earthquake, old age, or bus...but there is a certain unique sadness behind being done in by the will of man.

The Nazi haulocaust is not just looked upon as bad per the sheer numbers of dead people, but for the fact that it was engineered death...

1) systems engineering (the hiarchy of workers needed to do the jobs)

2) mechanical and chemical engineering (for the calculated and efficient slaughter of millions

3) social engineering (the propaganda to wrongly blame the Jews for no good reason for...well, for nothing really)

Whereas - is nature and or accidental chance a sentient/conscious being? No. Well, at least i don't think so.

For if one beleives in God's domain over nature, than he/she/it/nay/yay is at the top of the list - because he killed EVERYONE (aka: The Flood).

But, like I said, I don't come from that angle (belief in "God" - particuarly as any sort of sentient/conscious humanistic entity) so I think there is an inherient difference between nature/chance and man/consciousness.

Mr Grimsdale
03-02-2004, 06:19 AM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
If Vietnam makes it where's Trueman for Hiroshima or Churchill for Dresden?

you forgot to mention the fun Winnie had in Mesopotamia in the 1920's with mustard gas

what a guy!

those were the days

we had a lot of fun in palestine too, putting down jewish and palestinian uprisings

bring back the empire!

Golden AWe
04-07-2004, 02:19 PM
Just came from Balkan last saturday...Sarajevo: