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View Full Version : "Push comes to shove" : Worst classic VH track?



Mr Badguy
08-06-2004, 07:35 PM
I have a real problem with "Push comes to shove" from "Fair warning".

You know how you get songs that you ain`t crazy about?

When I think about it, it`s the only Dave era song that I REALLY dislike.

It`s too slow and uninteresting.

Try and change my mind...

jharp84
08-06-2004, 07:39 PM
It took me awhile too get used to this one until one day the doobie kicked in and eddie's solo was smokin!! Also the lack of DLR-VH material it will grow on you!!!

degŁello
08-06-2004, 08:59 PM
The solo fucking smokes.

ClubDave
08-06-2004, 10:18 PM
i dont even think its the worst song on fair warning.......i love the way it grooves...you can tell the song was totally dave inspired casue yo ucan get up and dance to it, i could imagine them playing it live with dlr up there shakin his money maker.......i like the bass in the beginning, its a nice change in a vh song when yo ucan hear mikey g oon a nice groove by himself

rustoffa
08-06-2004, 11:03 PM
It's all personal preference I guess.
That's how I feel about "I'll Wait".

Rikk
08-06-2004, 11:27 PM
I love both PUSH COMES TO SHOVE and I'LL WAIT.

Warham
08-06-2004, 11:28 PM
No, the worst classic Van Halen track is Sunday Afternoon In The Park.

DLRdelight!
08-07-2004, 02:14 AM
Push Comes To Shove is one of my personal favorites. Its one of those tracks that if i come across it i hardly skip it. Has really good vibe and a solo that blows me away!!!

pete
08-07-2004, 12:09 PM
One of my favorites.

Everyone's working in that song.

Dave's voice is great on it.

One of the best guitar solos on any VH album.

Great vibe.

Mezro
08-07-2004, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by Rikk
I love both PUSH COMES TO SHOVE and I'LL WAIT.

I would have to agree.

Mezro...never been a big fan of Jamie's Cryin'...

Coyote
08-07-2004, 06:08 PM
This might stink of sheep-ness, but in terms of Classic Van Halen, there wasn't one weak song at all. Unlike... :D

Figs
08-07-2004, 06:52 PM
This song probably doesn't count but I'll say "Big Bad Bill."

My least favorite original is probably "Jump."

turboblues
08-07-2004, 08:46 PM
Happy trails! Don't like the instrumental part.

degŁello
08-07-2004, 11:17 PM
Re. "Push Comes...":

While I do dig the track and have never had a problem with it (and love the solo), one thing I've noticed is how much the 'whiteness' of VH's rhythm section shows through on that song.

To me, the song is an attempt at a funky, Stonesy kind of "Miss You" vibe, except the stiffness of Al and Mike's playing doesn't really allow it to happen.

pete
08-07-2004, 11:37 PM
Excellent post.

I agree, It was their attempt at a "Miss You" vibe.

I was gonna post that same conclusion today.

I think Al & Mike did a decent job on it though. I thought Al was exceptional in his abilities. It was nice not hearing sloppy high-hat playing.

I just appreciated that they actually wrote a song where every instrument had voice and melodic input. Typically the drums and bass in VH supports the guitar.

anyway.

5 starts - cause I can relate to you

degŁello
08-08-2004, 01:40 AM
Hey, thanks. Right back at you.

You've got a good point about PCTS's overall arrangement being cool, for sure, with the bass taking a more prominent role, Ed working and dancing around it instead of dominating, and everybody contributing melodically. Definitely a step outside of their usual band approach.

pete
08-08-2004, 03:55 AM
Originally posted by degŁello
Hey, thanks. Right back at you.

You've got a good point about PCTS's overall arrangement being cool, for sure, with the bass taking a more prominent role, Ed working and dancing around it instead of dominating, and everybody contributing melodically. Definitely a step outside of their usual band approach.

EXACTLY.

Nicw to see EVH play with a groove instead of the groove serving him.

FORD
08-09-2004, 01:03 AM
I love "Push Comes to Shove", but then I can't find a single flaw on any of the first 4 albums. Except the fact that they're too damn short.

The only truly weak song on the first 6 albums is "I'll Wait". Eddie could have saved that little slice of Velveeta for Hagar's Hallmark scribble and included "Big Trouble" on 1984 instead.

degŁello
08-09-2004, 04:01 AM
I'm forever defending I'll Wait.
Might as well have a go, one more time...

I think its a cool track, with moody vocals, great lyrics, signature drum fill hooks, and a searingly tasty solo from Eddie, one of the few where you can actually hear his Clapton influences. And Dave's vocals are killer.

JCOOK
08-10-2004, 12:03 AM
"She decides" and "You agree" shes' leaving

Please put that with anything roy has ever contributed

Seshmeister
08-10-2004, 12:15 AM
Originally posted by FORD
I love "Push Comes to Shove", but then I can't find a single flaw on any of the first 4 albums. Except the fact that they're too damn short.

The only truly weak song on the first 6 albums is "I'll Wait". Eddie could have saved that little slice of Velveeta for Hagar's Hallmark scribble and included "Big Trouble" on 1984 instead.

Agreed...

JCOOK
08-10-2004, 12:44 AM
Who is this Hagar person you speak of?

vhsinger22
08-10-2004, 12:10 PM
" is there anything left in that BOTTLE" its a great tune!! i love all the b-sides. when classic radio has worn out all the hits, you can go home and listen to stuff rarely heard and it rocks!!!

Angel
08-10-2004, 01:15 PM
One of my all time favourite tunes! I love the Bluesy feel to it!

Carmine
08-10-2004, 04:41 PM
that tune totally defined mine and my friends teenage years. We used to hang out in my buddies freezin cold garage all the time, had our first drinks, smokes and women in that garage! the first couple of verses to the song were are lives at the time... everytime I play it now, its like a trip down memory lane....

Bill Lumbergh
08-11-2004, 04:13 AM
I used to absolutely LOVE that track back in the day. I played it constantly, and it seemed to get better every time. I still love it, but it is one of the few Classic VH tunes that hasnt aged well IMO. "l'll Wait" has grown on me over the years.

Big Troubles
08-11-2004, 08:26 AM
Originally posted by Seshmeister
Agreed...

verbatim

"Ill Wait" should've waited until 5150. "Big Trouble" or "Put Out the Lights" would've fit in great on 1984.

Well there is STILL a very good chance of seeing a Van Halen "Unreleased" CD drop within the next 2 years. (especially if Ed and Al spend all their tour money again) :D

diamondsgirl
08-11-2004, 07:14 PM
Some great posts in here!

PCTS is not my least favorite VH song, but it is my least favorite song on Fair Warning. (Sunday Afternoon is next to last, but I love how it segues into One foot out the door)

Deguello - great post on the "whiteness" and the Stones. Never thought of PCTS quite that way, and I think you're right on.

I'll Wait and Jump are my least favorite VANHALEN songs. Too Top 40 for me.

pete
08-11-2004, 10:47 PM
PCTS is one of their best tracks.

If I wanted a 1-dimensional baNd I'd listen to early metallica.
or Motely Crue
or other musicians who were more concerned with how the appeared to others than playing because they love music.

btw:late metallica sucks too - at leaat they tried though.

A work-out and cosmetics regimine is not enough to carry your music for the long haul.

Hear me fuckers!

Cut out the Vince Neil threads.

He's sad and always was.

Had you been confident (and not fat) in yourselves, you would have never bought this bullshit.

OPEN YOUR EARS YOU ASS-RECEPRICALS!!!!!!!

pete
08-11-2004, 11:03 PM
ONE OF THE BEST VH GUITAR SOLOS EVER

MIKE'S PART WAS AS ESSENTIAL AS THE GUITAR

ALEX ACTUALLY USED THE HI-HAT PEDAL

DAVE......... HE MADE THIS SHIT!!! (I say!)

Play it again - cock smokers!!!!

pete
08-12-2004, 08:35 AM
too much beer

degŁello
08-12-2004, 11:13 AM
Actually Pete, I thought it was a great post. Very entertaining (esp. the hi-hat remark), and I agree with every point you made!

No such thing as too much beer, maybe...

DeadOrAlive
08-12-2004, 01:39 PM
I LOVE push comes to shove. At first I hated it, but it grew on me!

Mr Badguy
08-12-2004, 05:16 PM
No, I still ain`t convinced.

I think it sounds like an attempt to try something different and it doesn`t work.

If it was an attempt at funk, then it lumbers too much.

I never buy into this "I love everything they ever did", it`s very teeny-bopper.

secrets
08-12-2004, 05:51 PM
Personally I love PCTS, always have. I think it does sound experimental but that's what's cool about Fair Warning in general. Very original, this was Van Halen pushing the boundaries of what they could do.

This song has the same kind of feel as Ladies Night in Buffalo off of EEAS. It's that heavy bass and funky guitar riff with a killer guitar solo and Dave's spoken lyrics.

You have to go back and listen to that guitar solo over a simple bass line and rhythm. That alone makes the song work for me.

DeadOrAlive
08-13-2004, 06:17 PM
That's when push comes to shove!

pete
08-13-2004, 06:40 PM
Originally posted by Mr Badguy
If it was an attempt at funk,

There's nothing "funky" about it.

There are "black" aspects.

Before you deem the song unconvincing know the stylistic influences that comprise it.

TwoFoolsAMinute
08-13-2004, 09:42 PM
For my money,

Loss of Control is the worst Van Halen track.

DeadOrAlive
08-13-2004, 10:46 PM
Loss of Control, Loss of Control, Loss of Control
Loss of Control, Loss of Control, Loss of Control
Loss of Control, Loss of Control, Loss of Control


I like that song too!

secrets
08-14-2004, 02:55 PM
Are there really any "worst" classic Van Halen songs? In my book there are only good and even better, really.

DeadOrAlive
08-14-2004, 06:21 PM
Right with you secrets!

Lou
08-14-2004, 09:05 PM
I like the song. It's not in my top 10 but it's a good song.

"I'll Wait" has gotta be the worst classic VH song. Eddie even admitted in that scanned in magazine article that was posted here that no one was into that song but him. Dave makes that song listenable.

DeadOrAlive
08-14-2004, 09:06 PM
I like I'll Wait...

Mr Badguy
08-15-2004, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by pete
There's nothing "funky" about it.

There are "black" aspects.

Before you deem the song unconvincing know the stylistic influences that comprise it.

Ooh, hark at mr music.

How do you define "funk" or "black" musical aspects?

I would say that the walking bass line in that song could be mistaken for an attempt at a funk/rock hybrid.

Sorry if that doesn`t fit into the small box in your mind that is labelled "funky".

"Funky" is a term like "heavy", there can be hundreds of different definitions depending on who you talk to.

Like your gran would say that Poison are "heavy" whereas you and I wouldn`t.

I would say there are funk elements in the bass part with the off beat upper register fills between the walking melody of the bass part.

In my opinion.

DeadOrAlive
08-15-2004, 01:57 PM
I'll Wait till your love goes down...

secrets
08-15-2004, 06:03 PM
Originally posted by Mr Badguy
How do you define "funk" or "black" musical aspects?

I would say that the walking bass line in that song could be mistaken for an attempt at a funk/rock hybrid....

I would say there are funk elements in the bass part with the off beat upper register fills between the walking melody of the bass part.

In my opinion.

Definately, the opening bass line seems like funk. But you get walking bass lines in jazz and blues also.

I doubt it was an attempt at funk, though it has aspects of that genre. Overall it has the feel of a slow blues IMO. The lyrical content is down beat and it doesn't suit funk at all.

Eddie's guitar part before the chorus with the clean rhythm multiple overdubs is quite unique, very unusual. Doesn't sound like any style I can define.

If you want to hear Van Halen "attempting" funk, check out their cover of Superstitious by Stevie Wonder on this site. Great stuff.

degŁello
08-15-2004, 06:23 PM
While we're getting into debating musical genre definitions and what ones were influential in the creation of PCTS...

I'll just add that I have read Eddie saying he doesn't and didn't like the song PCTS very much, and that it was actually an attempt at a reggae kind of vibe, which was Dave's idea, and Ed felt it fell short of what they were gong for.

PenguinsKID1986
08-15-2004, 06:28 PM
Dancin in the streets! girlly song, it sucks

DeadOrAlive
08-15-2004, 07:51 PM
There'll be dancing, in the streets!
Every Guy, Every Girl!

degŁello
08-15-2004, 08:41 PM
Dancin' In the Streets is the one and only VH track I never, ever listen to.

DeadOrAlive
08-15-2004, 08:53 PM
There'll be swingin' swayin', records playin'!

DeadOrAlive
08-15-2004, 08:53 PM
Sorry, just got this song stuck in my head now...

pete
08-15-2004, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by Mr Badguy
Ooh, hark at mr music.

How do you define "funk" or "black" musical aspects?
Be careful your whiteness is bordering on brightness. Define soul:.............. Funny how a guy jerking off to his Judas Priest collection can consider himself an authority on musical styles. Motown is not funk. Soul is not funk. RnB is not funk. PCTS is RNB. You obviously do not give much creedence to to the relevance of black musical styles. It's all funk to you.

I would say that the walking bass line in that song could be mistaken for an attempt at a funk/rock hybrid.

So how many FUNK albums do you own to make such an educated presumption.

Sorry if that doesn`t fit into the small box in your mind that is labelled "funky".

If any part of my mind is small - then you are a parasite in Einstein's poo.

"Funky" is a term like "heavy", there can be hundreds of different definitions depending on who you talk to.

Unless you know what it is. Funk is not an opinion. It is a style as defined as heavy metal. with much more depth

Like your gran would say that Poison are "heavy" whereas you and I wouldn`t.

I would say there are funk elements in the bass part with the off beat upper register fills between the walking melody of the bass part.

RnB brother - Check it out!.

DeadOrAlive
08-15-2004, 09:52 PM
I love your avatar pete! It's pretty damn funny!

pete
08-15-2004, 10:00 PM
Originally posted by DeadOrAlive
I love your avatar pete! It's pretty damn funny!

You forgot cool.

You get a "B" for that one.

:)

DeadOrAlive
08-15-2004, 10:03 PM
It's cool, too! You get a vote too! Thanks man!

ULTRAMAN VH
08-16-2004, 12:46 PM
The solo in this tune is amazing. DAVE ROCKS 24-7 so Ed probably had trouble coming up with a ballad. This was as close as he could get until he broke out the keyboards for I'll Wait. Even the pop tunes Jump and I'll Wait had an edge to them, because of Roth's vocal style.

Mr Badguy
08-16-2004, 05:37 PM
Originally posted by pete


You still didn`t define "funk" or "heavy metal" or "RnB".

Should be easy to a man who knows that all three are easily defined.

"Funk" as a genre didn`t exist until the late 60`s at the earliest so obviously RnB can be included in any definition as it was one of the genres that crossed over to develop the stylistics of funk.

Sorry that you need all your music to be categorized in genres and sub-genres so that you can decide what you like and don`t like on the basis of what it is.

Me, I can wake up in the morning and listen to Judas Priest, Weather report, Stevie Wonder, Kate Bush, Duke Ellington or anything I want.

Thanks for your opinion anyway, son.

Mr Badguy
08-16-2004, 05:39 PM
Originally posted by ULTRAMAN VH
The solo in this tune is amazing.

Eveyone keeps going on about the solo.

A great guitar solo does not a good song make.

Why do you think Steve Vai never has platinum solo albums?

pete
08-16-2004, 08:04 PM
Originally posted by Mr Badguy
You still didn`t define "funk" or "heavy metal" or "RnB".



It's not my place to educate you.

son

DeadOrAlive
08-16-2004, 09:40 PM
Could This Be Magic, or could this be looooove?

Mr Badguy
08-17-2004, 04:09 AM
Originally posted by pete
It's not my place to educate you.

son

Jeez, what a kop out.

Glad we got that sorted out.

:bananna:

PRIEST ROOLZ!

:killer:

DeadOrAlive
08-17-2004, 09:22 PM
Lonely ship, apon the water! Let us save the Women and Children First!

pete
08-18-2004, 12:11 AM
Originally posted by Mr Badguy
Eveyone keeps going on about the solo.

A great guitar solo does not a good song make.

Why do you think Steve Vai never has platinum solo albums?

I think the beauty of that solo is it SERVES the tune and the instruments around it (arrangement if you will).

That is a good guitar solo.

When the guitat solo makes the tune, You need a new writer.

Knowing when to not use a solo is important too.

I could list 10 great aspects of that solo.

Too much typing.

Fabulous Shadow
08-18-2004, 12:17 AM
Does it seem cold in here to you?

Mr Badguy
08-18-2004, 02:15 PM
Originally posted by pete
I think the beauty of that solo is it SERVES the tune and the instruments around it (arrangement if you will).

That is a good guitar solo.

When the guitat solo makes the tune, You need a new writer.

Knowing when to not use a solo is important too.

I could list 10 great aspects of that solo.

Too much typing.

I agree.

However, I always think the best solos are little songs inside the song itself.

While it would be nice to sit and marvel at the great melodic and technical aspects of that solo, which is in itself fantastic, don`t you think it would be served better by a superior piece of songwriting?

DeadOrAlive
08-19-2004, 12:29 AM
Sail away with someone's daughter! Let us save the women and children first!

Marlowe01
08-19-2004, 05:16 PM
I personally thought "Sunday Afternoon in the Park" sucked on that album. "Push Comes to Shove" wasn't that great but it was O.K.

DeadOrAlive
08-20-2004, 12:56 AM
Sunday Afternoon in the Park is just a boring instrumental... It's very hard to play, but it's not very appealing to me.

degŁello
08-20-2004, 01:03 PM
I like SAITP a lot. Very moody.
Alex's drums sound killer.

Tracks like that one that added depth to VH's albums and energy as a band.

secrets
08-20-2004, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by degŁello
I like SAITP a lot. Very moody.
Alex's drums sound killer.

Tracks like that one that added depth to VH's albums and energy as a band.

Yes, and it leads us nicely into One Foot Out The Door which is a great track.

It's in the context of Fair Warning that these songs work. They add an atmosphere to the overall feel of the album. On their own they might not stand up but together they are something special.

Think of Fair Warning as a concept album, very dark and cynical.

degŁello
08-20-2004, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by secrets
... It's in the context of Fair Warning that these songs work. They add an atmosphere to the overall feel of the album...

EXACTLY.

spmusicplyr
08-20-2004, 02:46 PM
i love it!!

DeadOrAlive
08-20-2004, 03:05 PM
I LOVE OFOTD because of Ed's ass-tearing solos in the end!

degŁello
08-20-2004, 05:06 PM
Originally posted by DeadOrAlive
I LOVE OFOTD because of Ed's ass-tearing solos in the end!


Yes, they're fucking killer].

DeadOrAlive
08-20-2004, 10:13 PM
I know! His solo is like a minute long!