Any thoughts on the new 23 trillion cost of free healthcare?

[GAR]

Okayee..

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say the new estimate for the Dem's package is still too LOW at just over $23 trillion.

The reason I say that is, it's supposed to apply to the supposed 42 million uninsured only.

But when you do the math,
$23,000,000,000 / 42million = only $5,476.19 each person!


If you were to throw in a few hundred thou cancer cases, one mil or so aids cases, fifty thou kidney dialysis cases - then how is this gonna work out?

I forget the rough estimate for dollar expenditure from true healthcare pay basis, but it's something like 40 percent of it all is admin costs such as billing, coding for service, and collections. The doctor only really sees 60 cents or less of that dollar!

So how will this work then, subtracting admin costs, when they're also estimating another 60 million middle class jumping ship from private healthcare to a government entitled provision, for the simple fact if its free why pay for it?

SHIT was I even paying $5400 a year for myself, I think I was paying like $180 a month for Kaiser, and they fucking SUCKED.

I don't see it passing. I was watching Hannity on Fox this evening, and they had some clips of Democrats selling this bullshit at townhall meetings trying to explain their way thru it while getting laughed at and heckled by the citizens.

This sure as hell isn't representation: if it is, the Democratic Congress is only representing Bostonian Kennedian drug and insurance concerns for the biggest insurance sale in history.. and I would like to know who's getting the commision on this policy if it isn't the Kennedeys business affiliates.

Then Obama wants to have everyone vote on it without reading it - but they keep filling it with provision this and provision that!

Boehner did another thing on CSpan with the printout, he dropped it on the table in two volumes like a pair of Los Angeles telephone book listings.. thunk thunk..

Again, teh Democrats trying to rip the fucking people off, to Kennnedy's puppet cry of "this bill must be passed"

It ain't gonna pass..

[GAR]

oh I forgot to add, the obvious second equation in this is the 23 trillion divided by 100 million subscribers dillutes the wonder of free medical for everyone down to just 2300.00 for each person.

Our gross national product in a bad year is 9 trillion, the government averages about ten percent of that, so how do you give away 25 times more than what you take in taxes if that's only 900 billion in a bad year?

The math don't lie, and even a third grader can figure THAT out!

If it were possible, we'd have to have a 900 trillion dollar economy.. then of course we could afford free healthcare for everybody. But it's just not physically, fiducially possible!

Plus, if the cap n taxtrade taxes don't work out, you hook millions of people on free healthcare for one year, then you gotta kick em off the next?

Obama's a fucking bullshit artist.. and thats not the worst part: he tells Congress to work it out. In other words, the Messiah hath spoken "I'm so popular, this will pass because I so wish it therefore you guys work out the details amongst yourselves.."

Not only does it not work mathematically, it's not fair to the taxpayer who Obama wants to stick with the bill.

[FORD]

I'd rather spend "23 trillion" on keeping people alive than on murdering them in senseless wars. Funny how there's always enough money for that bullshit.

[letsrock]

Kaiser does suck. They are about as efficient as the VA.

[Seshmeister]

GAR your math is fucking woeful.

Don't give up the day job...

[Nickdfresh]

I'm pretty sure he's equally incompetent at his day job...

[letsrock]

Remember everyone believes they are entiltled.
It will be fun to see when a person goes to ER for an injury.

Something like this.

Nurse: What brings you in tonight?
Unemployed person: i got hurt at my job.
Nurse: Where do you work?
Unemployed Person: Any corner i can.
Nurse looks surprised, but knows she shes this all the time now.

Nurse: So what happened?
unemployed Person: I got stabbed over a dime bag.


thanks obama.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally Posted by letsrock

Remember everyone believes they are entiltled.
It will be fun to see when a person goes to ER for an injury.

Something like this.

Nurse: What brings you in tonight?
Unemployed person: i got hurt at my job.
Nurse: Where do you work?
Unemployed Person: Any corner i can.
Nurse looks surprised, but knows she shes this all the time now.

Nurse: So what happened?
unemployed Person: I got stabbed over a dime bag.


thanks obama.

Um, WTF are you talking about? Firstly, you're the one getting free healthcare based on having a temporary job you got paid for...

[Igosplut]

What the hell's GARgle whining about? Don't the indigent/homeless get free health care in California anyways???

[letsrock]

Originally Posted by Nickdfresh

Um, WTF are you talking about? Firstly, you're the one getting free healthcare based on having a temporary job you got paid for...

No i dont get free healthcare based on a temp job.
Who gave you that idea?
But being a Veteran i took use my VA benefits for my diabetes care.
Back to taking pointless shots again arent you.

[letsrock]

Originally Posted by Nickdfresh

Um, WTF are you talking about? Firstly, you're the one getting free healthcare based on having a temporary job you got paid for...

So your saying that the US Military and its veterans are all temp workers.
What the hell is wrong with you?

[Seshmeister]

Temporary is a term that denotes a finite period of time, with a defined beginning and an end. It is derived from the Latin temporarius "of seasonal character, lasting a short time," from tempus (gen. temporis) "time, season." It is the opposite of permanent.

How is it not temporary work?

A cynic might say that tying health care into military service helps politicians to recruit people from disadvantaged backgrounds into illegal or unnecessary wars.

[letsrock]

Originally Posted by Seshmeister

How is it not temporary work?

A cynic might say that tying health care into military service helps politicians to recruit people from disadvantaged backgrounds into illegal or unnecessary wars.

Well based on that then one could say that the military is used as a toll for future free healthcare.

[Seshmeister]

Yes or further education.

But it doesn't apply to richer families.

[letsrock]

Right, it leave a lot to be desired.

[GAR]

Originally Posted by FORD

I'd rather spend "23 trillion" on keeping people alive than on murdering them in senseless wars.

Keeping fuckers alive another 20 years while they shit themselves away in retirement isn't fair to the younger generation who has to pay for it.

ESPECIALLY when the older generation agrees once confronted with the costs involved that it really isn't fair to the younger generation.

Now, talk about fair: if one war a decade in the Middle East prevents nine or ten, isn't that fair too?

Diplomacy only goes so far with them Mohammedfucks before you gotta show them the slaughter and our military does slaughter really, really well. I'm always proud of that!

If you're NOT get the fuck out..

[GAR]

Originally Posted by letsrock

Remember everyone believes they are entiltled.
It will be fun to see when a person goes to ER for an injury.

I'm entitled to keeping the Fed's sticky fingers out of my bank account.

We already figured that if I have to pay an additional 7 percent on the company copay for workers insurance, that I'm keeping my FUCKING insurance because I like it.

I'm just gonna pass the cost along to new hires, that's all - and since I let em all go in April EVERYONE's a new hire.

That means: if you want health benefits, you're paying The Black Messiah that extra 7 percent for not partaking of the govt. medical plan. And word on the street is Kaiser is being positioned to share its provider network by the Dems -or else- so no matter what, my Kaiser is gonna get fucked up by the Black Messiah's plan if it passes.

[GAR]

Originally Posted by Seshmeister

GAR your math is fucking woeful.

Don't give up the day job...

Total Bailout Cost = $23.7 Trillion Dollars | The Big Picture

Total Bailout Cost = $23.7 Trillion Dollars


This is a WTF number:

“U.S. taxpayers may be on the hook for as much as $23.7 trillion to bolster the economy and bail out financial companies, said Neil Barofsky, special inspector general for the Treasury’s Troubled Asset Relief Program.


The Treasury’s $700 billion bank-investment program represents a fraction of all federal support to resuscitate the U.S. financial system, including $6.8 trillion in aid offered by the Federal Reserve, Barofsky said in a report released today.


“TARP has evolved into a program of unprecedented scope, scale and complexity,” Barofsky said in testimony prepared for a hearing tomorrow before the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform.


Costs include $2.3 trillion in programs offered by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp., $7.4 trillion in TARP and other aid from the Treasury and $7.2 trillion in federal money for Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, credit unions, Veterans Affairs and other federal programs, he said.

[sadaist]

Some people have slammed Kaiser. I want to tell you that you are correct, Kaiser sucks...but only at entry level. Once you get past the front lines and actually see specialists, they are terrific. At least in San Diego. But getting past that front line of defense is nearly impossible.

When I say specialist departments, I mean Oncology and the likes.

[ELVIS]

Originally Posted by FORD

I'd rather spend "23 trillion" on keeping people alive than on murdering them in senseless wars. Funny how there's always enough money for that bullshit.

You're delusional...

[Seshmeister]

Why does everyone in this thread keep saying 23 trillion?

What does money spent saving banks have to do with free health care?

[Nickdfresh]

Originally Posted by letsrock

So your saying that the US Military and its veterans are all temp workers.
What the hell is wrong with you?

It was for me!

And good for you for treating your diabetes and getting the care you need. But if you hadn't served, you might be fucked...

[Nickdfresh]

Originally Posted by Seshmeister

Why does everyone in this thread keep saying 23 trillion?

What does money spent saving banks have to do with free health care?

I don't know, but if I keep seeing bullshit statistics like this thrown out, then I am canning these shit threads...

[LoungeMachine]

Originally Posted by GAR

Total Bailout Cost = $23.7 Trillion Dollars | The Big Picture

Total Bailout Cost = $23.7 Trillion Dollars


This is a WTF number:

“U.S. taxpayers may be on the hook for as much as $23.7 trillion to bolster the economy and bail out financial companies, said Neil Barofsky, special inspector general for the Treasury’s Troubled Asset Relief Program.


The Treasury’s $700 billion bank-investment program represents a fraction of all federal support to resuscitate the U.S. financial system, including $6.8 trillion in aid offered by the Federal Reserve, Barofsky said in a report released today.


“TARP has evolved into a program of unprecedented scope, scale and complexity,” Barofsky said in testimony prepared for a hearing tomorrow before the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform.


Costs include $2.3 trillion in programs offered by the Federal Deposit Insurance Corp., $7.4 trillion in TARP and other aid from the Treasury and $7.2 trillion in federal money for Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, credit unions, Veterans Affairs and other federal programs, he said.

So, moron...... WTF does that have to do with "free healthcare", you fucking braindead oxygen thief.



I'm with Nick. This dumbass bullshit should go to the DUMP.

Go play make believe there, fuckbag.

[FORD]

Originally Posted by ELVIS

You're delusional...

...says the NURSE without his own health care coverage.

[GAR]

Originally Posted by ELVIS

You're delusional...

That's basically the classic argument for the Democratic Distraction.

I saw a clip on Hannitys show, with Pelosi saying in an interview "..one of the best things we do up here, is distraction of the Republicans from what we really intend."

When FORD pulls THAT ol' gag from 2003 of ".. but Bush, Bush and Bush" he does it mnemonically from watching too much television, not that he truly understands why or how he absorbed it along the way.

But I noticed it works for him in the DLR forums because just as in normal conversation, the minute someone answers to your distraction, you relieve control of the discussion to the distractor.

Pelosi loves this Clintonian technique because.. it works! However, it is childish and sooo 2003.. she and her bunch have run it into the ground leaving no substance.

AND: tonite she's announced she's got enough votes to pass this Healthcare Spendulus bill in Congress before summer break when a) just as of yesterday she was short 43 of her own Democratic votes (mostly bluedog dems) and all but 11 Repubs.

If she doesn't have the votes after that announcement it'll become the sword she chose to die on after her CIA tussle!

[Nickdfresh]

Originally Posted by GAR

That's basically the classic argument for the Democratic Distraction.

I saw a clip on Hannitys show, with Pelosi saying in an interview "..one of the best things we do up here, is distraction of the Republicans from what we really intend."

When FORD pulls THAT ol' gag from 2003 of ".. but Bush, Bush and Bush" he does it mnemonically from watching too much television, not that he truly understands why or how he absorbed it along the way.

But I noticed it works for him in the DLR forums because just as in normal conversation, the minute someone answers to your distraction, you relieve control of the discussion to the distractor.

Pelosi loves this Clintonian technique because.. it works! However, it is childish and sooo 2003.. she and her bunch have run it into the ground leaving no substance.

AND: tonite she's announced she's got enough votes to pass this Healthcare Spendulus bill in Congress before summer break when a) just as of yesterday she was short 43 of her own Democratic votes (mostly bluedog dems) and all but 11 Repubs.

If she doesn't have the votes after that announcement it'll become the sword she chose to die on after her CIA tussle!

You took your mouth off a cock to notice all that, huh? Did the store near the ally have Fox Snewz on?

[standin]

Gar you are a Wacko Winger.

[FORD]

Posted by a Canadian at Democratic Underground

Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts)

Tue Jul-21-09 12:29 PM

Words you'll never hear in the Canadian health care system

As a Canadian I marvel at all of these terms that are so common to Americans, but are virtually unknown to us.

Here's a partial list off the top of my head:

1. "Out of network"
There are no "networks" in Canada. Doctors and hospitals are not affiliated with private insurance companies. Doctors are private business entities and hospitals are usually run by non-profit boards or regional health associations.

2. "COBRA"
Health coverage is NOT tied to your place of employment in any way. So any COBRA-like scheme is unnecessary.

3. "Co-Pay"
The government pays 100% of basic care, 100% of the time. Drugs are not covered, but are subsidized by government to a point. And because of mass buys, discounts are obtained from the drug companies. That's why our prices are so much lower. Most employers offer a drug plan that pays for 100% of drug cost coverage.

4. "monthly premium\deductible"
Wazzat? We don't consider our health to be the same as our possessions.

5. "waiting for approval"
Doctors are the sole decision makers for health care. NOBODY influences or delays their decisions, warns them of costs or prevents them from giving treatment for any reason.

6. "Government interference"
The provincial government in each province PAYS for whatever services doctors provide. No questions asked. Unless the procedure is experimental, not medically necessary or unwarranted, doctors cannot deny basic care - by law.

7. "Health insurance lobby"
There are NO insurance companies for basic care, only companies for providing insurance for travelers. No money to be made here.

8. "bureaucracy"
When we visit a hospital or doctor's office, we walk in, get treated, walk out. No "applications", "registrations" or any other kind of paperwork is required. We NEVER have to talk to a single "government official" or wait for a "judgment".

9. "PRE-EXISTING CONDITION"
This is such a foreign concept to us. A Canadian's usual reaction to the explanation of this term is astonishment.


I'm glad to see that a sane health care system is within reach in America. Fight for it. It's WORTH it.

Would any of our Hoser friends like to add anything to his comments?

[ELVIS]

Originally Posted by FORD

...says the NURSE without his own health care coverage.

Government mandated, or Socialized medicine (which is exactly what it is) is in no way intended to help americans, dumbass...

it will increase abortions, ration healthcare (especially for the elderly as well as people beyond the useful working age) and generally tax us ALL to death, not to mention mandatory FEES that will have to be involved. Right now I could buy healthcare for $150 a month. I choose not to. Under Obaahaahaahaahaahaahaahma's plan, I wouldn't have that FREEDOM OF CHOICE!

But it's not going to pass. NO WAY!

[Seshmeister]

Where's the freedom of choice not to pay trillions on attack sorry I mean 'defence'.

Why not privatize the US military so that the 'christians' can give their income towards mercenary armies to invade other countries and other people can opt out?

This would leave good people more money to allow them to pay for the treatment of their children and parents when they get sick.

[ELVIS]

Write congress and tell them...

The US population has no say in anything anymore...

Most people can't tell you what the first and second amendments are, much less what theit intent was or is...

[Seshmeister]

Perhaps the problem is being stuck with a bunch of rules from slavers hundreds of years ago and it's time for the US to get a modern constitution to protect the people from those that are abusing the old flawed one.

[ELVIS]

The US is at the end of it's days if you ask me...

Nobody hardly knows whats going on and it seems that less even care...

The problem is that this country was built on self government, and i've yet to meet more than ten people in my life who can even digest that idea, much less get involved...

FORD thinks he's involved, but he's part of the problem, not the solution. Unless he's bullshitting us on a daily basis, and I highly doubt that...

[ZahZoo]

Originally Posted by Seshmeister

Why does everyone in this thread keep saying 23 trillion?

What does money spent saving banks have to do with free health care?

Lack of basic math skills, common sense and shock factors...

Most people can't even grasp what a billion or trillion is.

[letsrock]

Originally Posted by ELVIS

The US is at the end of it's days if you ask me...

Nobody hardly knows whats going on and it seems that less even care...

The problem is that this country was built on self government, and i've yet to meet more than ten people in my life who can even digest that idea, much less get involved...
FORD thinks he's involved, but he's part of the problem, not the solution. Unless he's bullshitting us on a daily basis, and I highly doubt that...

Most are afraid to try to run for office.

[letsrock]

I tried and failed, but at least i tried.

[ELVIS]

Good for you...

I sort of have it in mind on a very local level, but I need to grow in the church and the community first, but people know me and i'm well liked, so...who knows...

[Seshmeister]

It can be done.

Elvis impersonator wins a council seat in Spain

Elvis impersonator wins a council seat in Spain


An Elvis impersonator has been elected as councillor in the local elections in the town of Reus near Barcelona for the independent CORI party.



Ariel Santamaría, a former postman, based his election campaign around a series of concerts across the town, but his manifesto is of particular note...

He proposed that marihuana be planted in all green areas across the town and also that the Guardia Urbana carry a GPS satellite system at all times so they can find people who forget their lighters so they can he given a light for their spiff.

He also said the Town Hall should be painted pink, and the town square be converted into a swimming pool for nudists.

Sñr Santamaría also believes in new technology with a web page, and his press secretary has been attending to the press demands dressed as a pirate, eye patch included.

He obtained more than 1,800 votes to be elected as councillor.

I'd vote for him!

Much more sensible policies too rather than trying to gain support amongst the superstitious invisible cloud worshippers.

[ELVIS]

Dude, you're so intelligent, but seem so afraid of God, it's silly...

You are an absolutely great guy, but the the thought that you think the end of your earthly life is the end baffles me...

God is real! I know it beyond a shadow of a doubt. I pray you let down your guard and your incredibly analytical mind (I have that trait myself) and look at it with an innocent attitude...

It's not easy, I know, but dude, you're missing out...

And I wouldn't bother if I didn't care...