Spector just Shocked...

[Big Train]

Hot Air » Blog Archive » Video: Specter shocked, shocked to find individual mandate in ObamaCare

Video: Specter shocked, shocked to find individual mandate in ObamaCareposted at 1:36 pm on August 14, 2009 by Ed Morrissey

This kind of thing is so predictable that it’s a wonder that we haven’t seen more of these moments coming from the increasingly rare open town-hall forums this month. When legislators don’t bother to read bills before supporting them, they will obviously fail to know all the nuggets of disasters contained within them. The beauty of this clip is that the question that flummoxes Specter comes not from a Tea Party protester but from one of Specter’s putative allies from a union:

The key takeaway comes at the end:
“In a free society, if people absolutely insist on not being covered, that’s ultimately going to be their choice.”

Had Specter done his job, he would already know about Section 401 of the House version of ObamaCare. King Banaian read it over a week ago and highlighted this particular portion in order to make clear that the bill does indeed impose individual mandates and assigns penalties for non-compliance:

In General- Subchapter A of chapter 1 of the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 is amended by adding at the end the following new part:

Subpart a. tax on individuals without acceptable health care coverage.

Subpart A–Tax on Individuals Without Acceptable Health Care Coverage

Sec. 59B. Tax on individuals without acceptable health care coverage.

Sec. 59b. tax on individuals without acceptable health care coverage.

(a) Tax Imposed- In the case of any individual who does not meet the requirements of subsection

(d) at any time during the taxable year, there is hereby imposed a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the excess of–

(1) the taxpayer’s modified adjusted gross income for the taxable year, over

(2) the amount of gross income specified in section 6012(a)(1) with respect to the taxpayer.

(b) Limitations-

(1) TAX LIMITED TO AVERAGE PREMIUM-

(A) IN GENERAL- The tax imposed under subsection (a) with respect to any taxpayer for any taxable year shall not exceed the applicable national average premium for such taxable year.

(B) APPLICABLE NATIONAL AVERAGE PREMIUM-

(i) IN GENERAL- For purposes of subparagraph (A), the ‘applicable national average premium’ means, with respect to any taxable year, the average premium (as determined by the Secretary, in coordination with the Health Choices Commissioner) for self-only coverage under a basic plan which is offered in a Health Insurance Exchange for the calendar year in which such taxable year begins.

(ii) FAILURE TO PROVIDE COVERAGE FOR MORE THAN ONE INDIVIDUAL- In the case of any taxpayer who fails to meet the requirements of subsection

(e) with respect to more than one individual during the taxable year, clause

(i) shall be applied by substituting ‘family coverage’ for ‘self-only coverage’.

2) PRORATION FOR PART YEAR FAILURES- The tax imposed under subsection (a) with respect to any taxpayer for any taxable year shall not exceed the amount which bears the same ratio to the amount of tax so imposed (determined without regard to this paragraph and after application of paragraph

(1)) as–

(A) the aggregate periods during such taxable year for which such individual failed to meet the requirements of subsection (d), bears to

(B) the entire taxable year.

Why doesn’t Specter know about this part of ObamaCare? Shouldn’t he have educated himself on the particulars of the “reform” before attempting to defend it in town-hall meetings? More critically, would Specter commit to opposing a bill that explicitly rejects his stated standard? If not, why not?
Read the bill, Senator. Inform yourself rather than spread “disinformation,” or Linda Douglass may have to track you at the White House’s Snitch Central.

[FORD]

Speaking of disinformation........

This is just one of many proposed bills. And for the record, I think mandatory corporate insurance SUCKS ASS. If I wanted that shit, I would have voted for Hillary, or the corporatist dog abusing Mormon bastard Romney.

If that shit DOES make it into a final bill, and Obama doesn't veto it, I would be the first to call him out on it.

[bueno bob]

Originally Posted by FORD

Speaking of disinformation........

This is just one of many proposed bills. And for the record, I think mandatory corporate insurance SUCKS ASS. If I wanted that shit, I would have voted for Hillary, or the corporatist dog abusing Mormon bastard Romney.

If that shit DOES make it into a final bill, and Obama doesn't veto it, I would be the first to call him out on it.

Abso-fucking-lutely.

[Big Train]

Disinformation?

Let's review:

It's in the proposal.

Spector is there to speak about the proposals.

He is not aware of what is in the proposals.

If he is not aware of what is in the "many proposals", are we not premature in saying that is disinformation? Are we not premature in even having these town hall meetings selling the "plan" since it is clearly not a coherent one amongst those trying to sell it?

We are rushing through this very complex process and trying to defend our elected reps not knowing what they are talking about and yet somehow being asked to make a blind vote for something we HOPE they will understand and get right. And get done right now.

This is a clusterfuck.

[LoungeMachine]

Originally Posted by Big Train

This is a clusterfuck.

Welcome to US Politics

[Nitro Express]

Originally Posted by FORD

Speaking of disinformation........

This is just one of many proposed bills. And for the record, I think mandatory corporate insurance SUCKS ASS. If I wanted that shit, I would have voted for Hillary, or the corporatist dog abusing Mormon bastard Romney.

If that shit DOES make it into a final bill, and Obama doesn't veto it, I would be the first to call him out on it.

It's mandatory that you have corporate insurance on your car. You are breaking the law if you don't. Maybe we should have the govt. tax us more to cover that?

The real problem is the prices. They have gone up because the insurance companies buy influence in the govt. Don't think they and big pharma won't be involved somehow in this universal plan. It boils down to Americans have been fucked over by both the corporations and the the govt. We don't trust either and don't trust a so called solution.

[FORD]

Originally Posted by Big Train

Disinformation?

Let's review:

It's in the proposal.

Spector is there to speak about the proposals.

He is not aware of what is in the proposals.

If he is not aware of what is in the "many proposals", are we not premature in saying that is disinformation? Are we not premature in even having these town hall meetings selling the "plan" since it is clearly not a coherent one amongst those trying to sell it?

We are rushing through this very complex process and trying to defend our elected reps not knowing what they are talking about and yet somehow being asked to make a blind vote for something we HOPE they will understand and get right. And get done right now.

This is a clusterfuck.

1) The blog calls it "Obamacare" which implies this is something the President endorses.

2) It's a House bill. Specter is a Senator and has absolutely no say in what the House does. He SHOULD know what's in any of the Senate bills by now though.

[Nitro Express]

It's just like the bankers bailout. They hype the urgency to pass it through. People are pissed that trillions of unaccounted dollars have disapeared and the banks that their tax dollars bailed out now have increased interest rates and payed huge bonuses to the people who started the mess in the first place. Taxes go up, job losses continue, the stock market is shaky and nothing has been solved.

They aren't buying the hype again on health care and we all know all these clowns want it the authority given to them at the agency level and then once they have the power, the details come from there. Once we empower them, we can't get rid of them. It's all about power and nothing else.

[Nitro Express]

Clinton deregulated the banks to allow crazy speculation. He passed NAFTA. Bush Jr. used a terrorist attack as an excuse to expand the govt. and take away constitutional rights. He used weapons of mass destruction as an excuse to invade a sovergn country. Bush started to bail out banks that failed to do Clinton's deregulation. Obama continues bailout to obscene levels and introduces a new level of Bush style big government. He breaks his campaign promise on getting out of the middle east and expands it. Now we get Bush plus more spending and more govt. meddling.

See a pattern. These guys will say and do anything. Why should we trust any of them?

[Big Train]

Originally Posted by FORD

1) The blog calls it "Obamacare" which implies this is something the President endorses.

2) It's a House bill. Specter is a Senator and has absolutely no say in what the House does. He SHOULD know what's in any of the Senate bills by now though.

1. The "plausible deniability" clause is bogus. The president is presenting all kinds of ideas, letting his party take the hits. This is retarded process to not have a unified front on this. The guy who comes to the town hall expects Spector to know both bills, even though technically he doesn't have to. The poll numbers are falling because of this. Intentionally creating a mess and saying that's "Disinformation" while quietly adjusting the bill based on reaction (ie. Cudas "death panel" bit, which was dropped).

2. He doesn't seem to know which is in either, which makes the town hall exercise in itself "disinformation". Anything he doesn't know he can claim as disinformation, but anything he claims he does know nobody can take at face value.

[FORD]

I'm not here to defend Arlen Specter. He helped the BCE cover up one of their worst crimes (11-22-63) and I don't trust him as far as I can throw him. But these teabaggers are fucking misinformed shills of the Dick Arm(e)y, and specifically the one who told Specter that "GOD WILL JUDGE YOU !11!1!" was a literal mental case.

[Big Train]

That's quite a play you have there, with villians and all.

So it is simply not possible that they were just regular americans here to discuss the different versions of the bill being bandied about by an administration who clearly doesn't have their message or heads on straight.

Someone who bothers to go to a town hall is ill informed because they read bills by both parties and expect to have questions responded to.

They are working with disinformation, even though it is an active proposal.

If the administration had a fucking clue, they would have someone at these town halls who could speak to both bills for us poor disinformation fed regular folks who just want some goddamn answers please.

[FORD]

Originally Posted by Big Train

That's quite a play you have there, with villians and all.

So it is simply not possible that they were just regular americans here to discuss the different versions of the bill being bandied about by an administration who clearly doesn't have their message or heads on straight.

Someone who bothers to go to a town hall is ill informed because they read bills by both parties and expect to have questions responded to.

They are working with disinformation, even though it is an active proposal.

If the administration had a fucking clue, they would have someone at these town halls who could speak to both bills for us poor disinformation fed regular folks who just want some goddamn answers please.

Like I said, these plants work for The DICK Arm(e)y (a.k.a. "Freedom Works")

[Big Train]

You are simply an apologist and a shill for the Democrats if that is your only response.

[FORD]

What other response is needed?

Oh right.... I forget sometimes that I'm talking to someone who believes that corporations have the "right" to extort any amount of money they want from any person, for any reason, or no reason at all. You don't believe a corporation can do wrong at all, do you?

Insurance companies. Halliburton. Exxon. TimeWarner. Doesn't matter.... all are blameless in your eyes, and it's only the people who are trying to scam some poor CEO out of his 12th mansion.

[Big Train]

Yea that is exactly what I think...

Don't rob the BCE....we are on to you...

There is no middle ground with you...which is why you end up a shill.

[FORD]

The "middle ground" here is a True Public Option, as Howard Dean has said.

That allows the people to choose. It also allows the insurance corporations to clean up their act if they want to stay in this business. If they don't do so, they cut their own damn throats.

And they know goddamn well that they won't be able to hold back the greed and do what's necessary, which is why they ordered the DICK Arm(e)y to stir up the shit and their pocket cowards like Baucus & Conrad to obstruct, obstruct, obstruct.

Single payer is what's best for the country. There's no logical reason we shouldn't go there immediately, especially since that was Harry Truman's intention 60 fucking years ago. But since the greedy douchebag corporatists have so much influence in Congress and the media, the compromise of the Public Option may be necessary.

But anything LESS than that is unacceptable, because it would amount to nothing else but another huge corporate bailout. And just like Chimpy's Wall Street bailout, this one would be for the most undeserving corrupt pieces of shit.

[Baby's On Fire]

Originally Posted by LoungeMachine

Welcome to US Politics

Welcome to politics anywhere.

A country should be managed like a business. Yet any business run like a country would fail.

Exactly why I always supported Ross Perot. But his downfall would have been a Congress refusing everything he put forward...out of pure politics!

[Sgt Schultz]

Yeah.....but where is your proof Big Train?

Also, remember that you can't criticize Barry's plan because he doesn't have one.

[Big Train]

My proof?

I'm criticizing Barry's people here for floating this half ass "idea" of what they want to do.

[sadaist]

Originally Posted by Big Train

My proof?

I'm criticizing Barry's people here for floating this half ass "idea" of what they want to do.

I don't mind anyone floating any idea. What I do not approve of is when you are called out if you disagree with it. Can't disagree with Obama or you're either a racist, or a plant from some extreme right wing group. But they sure were angrily disagreeing with Bush and his administration. Sounds like a bit of yelling on her part there.

[letsrock]

Spector is and always has been a joke.

A) part of the Warren commision

b) his single bullet theory.

[sadaist]

Originally Posted by letsrock

Spector is and always has been a joke.

Agreed. But I'm going to give him a little credit (very little) for actually continuing with the town hall meetings knowing whats waiting for him. Sacrificial lamb? Maybe. They might just figure he's on his way out anyways. Who knows. But he is getting back out there.

[Sgt Schultz]

Originally Posted by Big Train

My proof?

I'm criticizing Barry's people here for floating this half ass "idea" of what they want to do.

I was being sarcastic, sorry.

[Big Train]

No need...so was I.