What made Eddie Van Halen we used to know so great

I could lay down a pretty good list of wonderful guitar players but for me Eddie Van Halen encompassed everything you could want in a rock and roll guitar great. He was high energy and could play fast but he always did it in a musical way. He wrote great riffs and invented new techniques of playing. Even if Eddie wasn't inventing a new technique he did a new spin on an old one. He had great tone. He was a true innovator and not only created one of a kind riffs but guitars as well. Ed had great stage presence and seemed to be having a blast up there.

The Eddie I mentioned above seems so far from the fruitloop he has become. I think many of his former fans scratch their heads wondering what in the fuck happened. The guy went from being one of the coolest guitar Gods of all time to a fucking geek.

Yup, and only Sammy fans believe he still "Has it"

First of all, great thread.

As a huge EVH fan who is still scratching his head in bewilderment over what he has become, I have to say I agree with what you said.

When I was a kid and first got turned on to VH, I was stunned by Eddie. His presence on stage was pure, raw energy. I remember seeing pictures of him in the white and red overalls, and you could see the blood stains at his knees from where the skin was rubbed off from him sliding across the stage.

That said to me that he was a guy who would give his all for a great show.

Couple that with the fact that he revolutionized rock guitar playing, and could make the near impossible look effortless. That is the mark of greatness.

It makes me sad to see him today.

Man, to me - Eddie just looked cool as hell whenever he played live. Whether it was the cool jumps or those goofy facial expressions, the guy just knew how to move when he played and seemed like he was truly enjoying what was taking place on stage. Plus he was just a total bad ass, and I think he knew it at the time- which added a little swagger to his persona.

The bottom line is that he just came off so cool and mysterious that I became damn near obsessed with the guy.

It's really sad that he's in the shape he is today. I hope he still has some of that early fire left in him, but as of now it looks as if he's flamed out.

And I agree with dutchman, great thread. 5'er for that.

Well here's my go,

Like all bands when they first began early Eddie and the rest of the boys were hungry, real hungry. All of them were pushing foward together to reach the greatest of heights for the first time. Sure they were as VH always was volatile but they were all rising to the top of the rock heap.

As it always was from my vantage point Dave had, and still does, have this characteristic of wanting to quash the competition. His domain was the stage. He simply owned it. If you were on his stage you'd better be in the fuckin' band. A good portion of this bravado and showmanship was for the crowd and the extravaganza but boiled down it was essentially him.

Dave's modo can be grasped with this. If you're standing on the fifty yard line than I am not goin' to run around you or stop and pontificate why you should move out of my way. What I am goin' to do however is run straight for you and mow you down simply because I am better than you and the quicker you realize this all the better. When you recover from your concussion I'll be standing on the fifty yard line in another city but don't worry my manager will send you the footage. I'll be the one wearin the shit eating grin!

Simply put, being around any person with this kind of drive is goin to rub off on you. I think Dave was Eddie's gnat, his Russian storm trooper, his eastern block authoratative pain in the ass. The "...that's not good enough my fingerless grandmother could play a riff like that now really put some effort to it..." kind of guy.

Dave mentioned this kind of pushing a pupil or student mentality during his radio gig but it is something I have always believed occurred during the time the great Van Halen roamed the earth.

Now I think that also was the down fall to a degree of the band because being around some one whose always wanting something different or better out of ya can be draining and Eddie has said being around Dave did that to him.

Being in that kind of relationship needs balance and mabey there wasn't enough of it. Mabey with that mentality Dave wasn't also able to convey the respect to Ed in a way that Ed could understand, hense the constant friction and breakdown in communication that always and still seems to occurr from these diametrically oppossed artists.

In any event Van Halen has always been about speculation about what made them such a force on and off the stage. But in terms of what made Ed great as a guitarist I believe it was "The Great David Lee". He made the incindiary talents of Eddie burn at a temperature that has yet to be attained since.

Eddie has all the ingredients of the greats but alas grasshopper Dave's the spice. Any chef will tell ya folks without the flavoring your food can be guareenteed to be served up bland. It will still be in that fancy dish and all but you won't be asking for seconds and ya surely won't be tellin' your friends bout the place.

I feel that Dave is content with what he contributed to the Great Van Halen. He has made his peace as best he can considering the circumstances. He's damn proud of the brand name. He has never stopped particapating in life whether it be through his music or folowing his many and varied interests.

Ed in contrast is still pondering why Classic Van Halen was so great and why that was so. The legend of that lineup is unsinkable. It will always rise to the top whether it be in the photos, the interviews, the stunts, the backstage parties, and most certainly through the music which still is as ear spliting as it was 25 years ago.

Bravo David Lee for contributing to something so great and passin' it on to the fans. You brought a great band into legendary status and a great guitarist into his best form which has yet to heard since the Failin' of Van Halen in 1985.

God speed David Lee!

I think everyone mellows out as they get older.

'Cept Dave.

Even Dave has mellowed out to a certain extent.

If the BOSTON POPS is any indiction.

I liked the way Ed incorporated different kinds of music into rock. I think that was unique to his style back in the day. I don't know if he is still doing that. I stopped listening.

Take the swing sound of "Sinners Swing" and "I'm the One" and the jitter bug type sound of "The Full Bug" as well as the almost Latin-y sound of "Dance the Night Away" as examples.

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Originally posted by WARF
Even Dave has mellowed out to a certain extent.

If the BOSTON POPS is any indiction.

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Yeah, what the hell was that about?

He still is great asswip

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Originally posted by Thorman
I'm a fucking asswipe

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You don't say!

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Originally posted by WARF
I think everyone mellows out as they get older.

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Lemmy hasn't

Yeah,

The "Boston Pops" was watered down Dave but really it is simply another dimension of what Dave is about. He's not one dimensional like a good percentage of folks would like him to be. It's just another side of Dave.

Listening to one segment of any of his interviews, or radio gigs will indicate to anyone without a pre-conceived and cemented viepoint that the man did not fall of the turnip truck. Unlike the two shitheads on Howdy Doody Mountain and their propaganda cam-"pain" of forget Dave he just can't connect the dots Dave explores (literally) many varied forms of everything. Doesn't matter if it is different styles of music, or the same songs presenting them in varied forms and structures. Singing the same songs for twenty years straight the same way would drive the sane crazy and the crazy sane.

It is in that kind mindset that one can present to us something of the calibre of original sonic ball-crunching music. Dave has always gotten a lot of flack for some of the non traditional Van Halen type vibes he has put out. His goin' off on tangents is healthy. It may not be popular or sellable to the unwashed masses but hey it's fuckin' Dave. I really tripped on YFLM others couldn't take to it. Others liked some other stuff like The DLR Band I really didn't like the album but for a few gems on it.

But believe you me if Dave ever entered the ring again as the voice of VH than he'd stiffen up the act pretty quick and they sure as fuck wouldn't be pumping out no "How many say I"s! That sonsbook would be used for cleaning out the tour bus toilets with. Forget that it wouldn't even be good enough for that.

Anyhows your right some Dave stuff if different or watered down or less a-"tit"-tudinal but its all different shades of one creative mother fucker.

Guess some of it had to do with him going for broke, having the throttle wide open and just plain fuckin' rocking hard on all those classic Van Halen albums. And even when the pedal wasn't to the metal (Could This Be Magic?, Big Bad Bill [Is Sweet William Now] ), the man sounded like he was still having fun.
His onstage presence reflected his recorded efforts; non-calculated. The shit-eating grin on his face said it all. Whatever his gripes about Roth post-1985, his perma-smile in the classic era probably had to do with the fact that he was having a ball. Even in his interviews back then, he didn't come off as arrogant about his talent. He was even reluctant to criticize other players, and had a self-effacing attitude about his own level of skill.
After Dave left...hell, even with the 1984 album, the music became purposefully commercial. Maybe that's where Ed's head was at. Maybe he wanted to pursue a sound that had more top 40 commercial sensibility. Probably success chipped away at the rawness and rough edges...might be hard to have a go-for-broke attitude when you're making millions.
Hadn't really read a lot of Ed's interviews post 1986 until the whole 1996 debacle. Was really no point, as I wasn't interested in the music from 1986-1995 that Van Halen put out. That spate of press in 1996, to me, displayed Ed as totally ego-driven, but without Roth's sense of humor or the humility EVH had displayed during the classic years.
Guess ultimately what made EVH great for me was his guitar playing. The man was on fire and blew my mind until Hagar joined the group and Ed went on autopilot. EVH just stopped growing as a player, and I lost interest. Only so many times I can hear pinched harmonics coupled with tremolo bar dives and two-handed tapping before I became ho-hum about it. Might have been different if he'd been writing stuff I dug, but that pop-rock schmaltz Van Hagar accelerated at wasn't my cup o' tea, and all the 'rockers' in the Sam Halen catalog did is remind me of how 2nd rate Van Halen MACH 2 was to the original.
Think, in the end, EVH's partnership with Dave went a long way towards defining the sound that made CVH such a great band. Only makes sense. 'Cuz if "Ed was/is Van Halen", as some say, then Roth leaving wouldn't have made a difference to me. Chemistry. Ed and Dave had it. Sam and Ed really didn't. Not to these ears. Sure, they got along better than Ed and Roth did, but doesn't sound like their mutual appreciation society had the spark to fire up Ed's creative batteries, least not on anything I ever heard Van Hagar come up with.

Yeah totally Terry. I think you're on the money about Dave always having fun!

They totally lost that spontaneous element you speak of after Dave left.

As the old saying goes Dave "went for the fun".

And like ya said Ed went for the money and produced music instead of the other way around.

The lovefest Ed and Sam seemed to surfing on certainly wouldn't create stellar music ...that is of course unless you drank milk, drove a nissan, and made love...as Dave described.

One of Dave's great descriptions concerning Sammy's version was that Van Halen had become like a beautiful woman with really bad teeth!

It can be summed up with what you said,

Ed got stuck on auto pilot.

Nice descriptions about his guitar techniques that began to remain the same.

Thanks for that, Rack.

Comes across to some as selling the man short when I say Ed's style is tired. But I'm not saying his shit wasn't earth-shattering. Just that he never developed beyond what he played on the classic albums, and the fire in his playing was on the wane by the time Hagar got there...I'm just hard pressed to hear anything he did from 1986 onward that bettered what came before it.

Kinda not his fault, though. The stuff he put out from 1978-1984 was a tough act to follow.

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Originally posted by Nitro Express
I could lay down a pretty good list of wonderful guitar players but for me Eddie Van Halen encompassed everything you could want in a rock and roll guitar great. He was high energy and could play fast but he always did it in a musical way. He wrote great riffs and invented new techniques of playing. Even if Eddie wasn't inventing a new technique he did a new spin on an old one. He had great tone. He was a true innovator and not only created one of a kind riffs but guitars as well. Ed had great stage presence and seemed to be having a blast up there.

The Eddie I mentioned above seems so far from the fruitloop he has become. I think many of his former fans scratch their heads wondering what in the fuck happened. The guy went from being one of the coolest guitar Gods of all time to a fucking geek.

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Ed layed it all on the line. So did the whole band.

They wanted to rock have fun and make you think

all at the same time!!!

Ed, today, has taken the easier path, which is why he doesn't blow

our minds anymore.

Yeah,

Sounds like you're thiking mabey Ed wanked his cud and blew his whole load on the first six albums.

Quite possible Terry. :eek:

EVH was the reason I picked up a guitar. He always seemed to be having the time of his life, and that came across on EVERY song, Studio & Live!

He had all the flash, yet wasn't a "Mongolian string bender". Meaning, he always played for the song. Both his riffing & Soloing were genius.

CLASSIC VAN HALEN had both the heaviness & the commercial appeal that so few bands ever manage to attain.

DAVE was the FUN in CLASSIC VAN HALEN.

van hagar was/is just boring Journey knock offs. The GREATEST TRAGEDY IN ROCK HISTORY.

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Originally posted by Nice Rack!
Yeah,

Sounds like you're thiking mabey Ed wanked his cud and blew his whole load on the first six albums.

Quite possible Terry. :eek:

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Yep. Think I may have even posted something previously along those very lines.


Like Ed blew a fuse coming up with all the shit on the first 6 albums, or too much booze stocked in the bar at 5150 (anyone else but me notice that EVH's music sucking pretty much began to coincide with the construction of a studio in his backyard and his gradual takeover of production chores?).

His creative spark was mind-blowing while it lasted, though.

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Originally posted by Terry
Yep. Think I may have even posted something previously along those very lines.


Like Ed blew a fuse coming up with all the shit on the first 6 albums, or too much booze stocked in the bar at 5150 (anyone else but me notice that EVH's music sucking pretty much began to coincide with the construction of a studio in his backyard and his gradual takeover of production chores?).

His creative spark was mind-blowing while it lasted, though.

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Originally posted by Terry
Yep. Think I may have even posted something previously along those very lines.


Like Ed blew a fuse coming up with all the shit on the first 6 albums, or too much booze stocked in the bar at 5150 (anyone else but me notice that EVH's music sucking pretty much began to coincide with the construction of a studio in his backyard and his gradual takeover of production chores?).

His creative spark was mind-blowing while it lasted, though.

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Ive been to Rome, Dallas, Texas

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What made Eddie Van Halen we used to know so great

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That's an easy one, two answers...he wasn't in a band with Sammy Hagar making love songs and he and Diamond Dave were one of the greatest combinations in rock history.

Everybody is right about mellowing out though, anybody seen a Ted Nugent show lately? Totally different from back in the 70's.

Eddie need Dave!
By the way Thorman..... fuck you!