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Thread: another take on Ed's playing and attitude.

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    another take on Ed's playing and attitude.

    Alright guys, please don't kill me on this one, just read and think about this for a minute. I really don't think Ed's playing as of late has anything to do with him being drunk or whatever. i was thinking about this and instead of looking at his playing from a fan standpoint, i thought about it from a musician's way of thinking. let me explain, here's a guy who from day 1 was taught to be perfect, not ever to make a mistake. When your young and going through the yrs. getting better and better, in Ed's case, he got great very quickly, kind of putting yourself in a box, playing what you know the best, the most. Then in Ed's case getting the band togeither and playing live, still with a must play very accurate attitude. Ed even stated that at a very young age he was taught to be very disciplined on whatever instrument he was playing . Now let's get to the point where he is a 17 or 18 yr. old guy, a guitar wizard, as he was. Vh has now become a big thing in southern Cal, Here's a guy who plays better than anyone out there, get's on stage and is just perfect. Ed is just one of those rare players that never fucks up live, that's just the facts. But Ed does fuck up, it's just that he does it out of the publics eye. All those great songs on the six pack albums put togeither with alot of fucked up night and days of playing. When it was all said and done and they were on tour supporting the album, he had already created a box around those songs and when playing live, he didn't dare to stray to far away in his playing. So with every new album there was a box that was put up around those songs he played live, from the first album to the last one. Even through the Spammy yrs. it didn't change. So you have Ed creating all this great guitar work, in the studio fucking up all over and just experamenting like crazy. If you think that those tunes are created on first thought and are perfect from the first strum of the pick, your wrong. Now lets get to his playing on this tour. Now i'm not going into the whole Sammy sucks thing and it should of been Dave stuff, i'm talking only about ED. first, your playing does not get worse as you get older it get's better, unless you get three fingers cut off or have a stroke or something, so let's throw that theory out the window. sunday night those guys were in Biloxi, well i'm from BR. and i was listening to the local rock radio, and they were taking calls about the show. Some said it was good , and some said it was alright, but were classic VH fans. But they all were talking about Ed's playing. They never said it was bad just that he missed a few notes and in his solo, he played all this off the wall stuff. One guy said that before he started his solo, Ed came to the microphone and said, he didn't know what he was going to play next, he is just having a ball and playing whatever comes to mind. He said that sometime's it comes out great and if it doesn't tonight, just laugh with me about it, then he went off on some blues stuff. the point i'm trying to make is, I don't believe it's a drunk thing or a can't play no more thing, it's Ed playing live out of the box he has been in since he first started playing. Going at it from a, i 'm going to play free and uninhibated live. Does everyone know how much balls it takes to do that, get up on stage and just play and create new runs and riffs on the run. Now i'm just talking to the dudes here on this site who plays, not just guitar, any instrument. Everyone here that reads what i'm am saying is going to have their opinion on this, thats fine, but everyone here does not play music, and that's where i'm coming from on this. To play free and out of the box like Ed is doing, with his stature and just who he is, takes incredable courage and a sense of knowing who you are. For yrs. he has been doing what everyone else does, play and create in the studio, work out all of the mistakes and try to play perfect. But on this tour, he opened himself up, to try and play new things in old songs and not play inside that box. It sucks if you went and payed $200.00 for the show and you get a guy who probably made you pick up a guitar and start playing, do the exact opposite of what you where accustomed to for all these yrs. As a guitar player myself, i know that if i stay in my box and play nothing but what i'm comfortable playing, i will never grow as a musician, and that goes for Ed himself. People who are going to this tour is just seeing this first hand from Ed. You can say what you will about his his playing, i think the dude is just be a creative musician, and not being afraid to show people that he is just human and even the best of the best can and do make mistakes. thats how we all grow. Now since i know my brothern here, let the flames fly baby.

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    Sorry dudes for not paragraphing.

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    Re: another take on Ed's playing and attitude.

    Originally posted by MUSICMANN
    Alright guys, please don't kill me on this one, just read and think about this for a minute.
    OKAY.....1 minute.....
    A totaly absurd explanation for EVH's sub-standard playing on this tour. If that is what you want to tell yourself, feel free. Now, I am going to disregard any further attempts by you to rationalize this travesty.


    FUCK YOU Van Hagar!!!:fucku2: :fucku2: :fucku2:

  4. #4
    lms2
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    I have expressed ideas along this line before, but on this site they fall on deaf ears. Another idea that I have expressed on here is that Ed goes overboard on the "i'm only human" bit. He is/was whatever, a rock icon for crimineys sake.

    True that he is not stuck in the "box" that you speak of. I am one of the fans that enjoyed just seeing him play-what and how he wanted to play. Truth of the matter though is that Eddie laying on stage playing in front of 6,000 or so people was not "comfortable and natural". It was sick and disgusting.

    They are in need of ideas...and Spam is not the one to be getting them from.

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    If Dave could be convinced that a proper VH reunion was a good idea, he would have:

    1. Locked the sisters in the studio until they were fit to play, even if it meant 6 months;
    2. Told Mikey to "never play that lame fckn bass solo as long as I am on stage"
    3. Scoffed at the publicity machines push to absolutley fck up 3 new songs with crap lyrics and do a reunion tour. Wait til you fckn get it right and do a whole new album.

    Ed's playing comes down to alcohol and laziness, but that is just my opinion. And also lack of practice... he was quoted in a guitar mag he has been playing the oboe and other shit... well now it's clear... it's been at the expense of his guitar playing..

    It's simple... Dave would not have tolerated this substandard shit...
    Last edited by sambo; 09-08-2004 at 12:06 AM.
    Go home the Earth is full....

  6. #6
    badhorsie
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    I've never thought of Eddie as a "Studied" or a "trained" player. He is a very loose and very "Live" type of musician. He needs ALOT and i mean ALOT of live shows under his belt to get back what he's lost sitting around for years.

  7. #7
    lms2
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    What he needs is motivation to want to be that good again.

    Its easy when you are young and want to make a name for yourself; or when you have an inner need to prove yourself. Now, it really wouldn't surprise me to see him play "tuba". At least that is something he hasn't done live yet.

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    Originally posted by lms2
    What he needs is motivation to want to be that good again.
    Agreed.. good call.

    I believe Dave could provide that motivation or at least have enough motivation that it becomes infectious on the rest of the band.

    It just appears, with Spam, they are going through the motions.

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    Like looking for love in all the wrong places?

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    If it was the booze, then how was he able to play wtih that much perfection all those yrs. And yes Ed was a classical trained pianist very eary. He even said his teacher would scold him if he missed a note. Now getting out there and laying on stage is another thing. And yes i do also call this tour a travesty, but i'm not talking about anyone else but Ed. I'm not saying that i prefer him, to me opening up and just playing what comes to mind, in the middle of a song. I want to see the production and the mastery of his playing note for note. But after the horrible response VHIII got, i think that he just said fuck it, and decided instead of exploring new sounds and playing on a new album, he's doing it live. I just can't see him losing any skills from not playing live for 5 yrs. He still was playing in the studio and for a guy that is a pro like Ed is, you never lose your ability to play.

  11. #11
    lms2
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    Like riding a bicycle...

  12. #12
    lms2
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    except that some people set themselves up to fail. Is Ed so insecure that he is afraid to really pour his sole into creating kick ass. I mean, gosh, the guy paved the way and wrote the rules for so long... but there is always some young hot shot out there to take what you did, and make it better.

    Like the guy who says "I am number 2, I don't try at all." Cheap chicken shit... All he is saying is that I am afraid to give it all I got, cuz it just might not be good enough.

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    Originally posted by MUSICMANN
    If it was the booze, then how was he able to play wtih that much perfection all those yrs. And yes Ed was a classical trained pianist very eary. He even said his teacher would scold him if he missed a note. Now getting out there and laying on stage is another thing. And yes i do also call this tour a travesty, but i'm not talking about anyone else but Ed. I'm not saying that i prefer him, to me opening up and just playing what comes to mind, in the middle of a song. I want to see the production and the mastery of his playing note for note. But after the horrible response VHIII got, i think that he just said fuck it, and decided instead of exploring new sounds and playing on a new album, he's doing it live. I just can't see him losing any skills from not playing live for 5 yrs. He still was playing in the studio and for a guy that is a pro like Ed is, you never lose your ability to play.
    I agree it should be like riding a bicycle, but after 5 years of little riding, you are not going to be able to jump that house you once did, it will take time. No doubting he has the chops, it is EVH, but anyone that does not play (especially live) for an extended period of time and then goes back out on stage is bound to suffer.

    maybe, as badhorsie said, he just needs a shitload of live gigs to get it completely back under his fingers. That's all they used to do for years and years on end play show after show and it all falls into place.

    I wish Ed no harm, just don't want to see him disappoint his fans, and that's all I seem to be hearing.
    Last edited by sambo; 09-08-2004 at 12:33 AM.

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    question to Matt White, Do you play and what instrument. Cause if you do than you would understand what i was talking about, Playing songs that you have mastered and not opening up and giving yourself a challenge, is not growth as a musician. You don't have to be famous and play in front of a million people to be a musician and want to become a better player, but you do need to want to take risks when your playing, and that risk sometimes causes you to fall flat on your face. It's what you do to learn from that mistake that makes you a better player. that's how i see Ed playing right now.

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    I can understand some of not playing live thing, but remember, we are not talking about your average Joe guitar player, we are talking about a true natural player, not even just a natural player, but one out of 2 or 3 guys ever to pick up the guitar. Shit even in the mid 80's and early 90's they went for 3 yrs. between albums and live gigs.

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    Originally posted by MUSICMANN
    question to Matt White, Do you play and what instrument.
    I play Guitar, have been for 20+ years.

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    that's cool dude, i didn't mean to offend you on a opinion i had about this. Some things just don't fit right about Ed's playing and to me that was the most logical answer i could come up with. When i'm playing and really pushing myself, alot of times it just doesn't come out right , right away.

  18. #18
    lms2
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    Okay. I know your question was for Matt.... but the thing is, and I saw them live this tour, and already admitted that I enjoyed the crap out of seeing him play,and to me he still rocks. BUT

    Ed is a natural guitar player.

    Ed is a learned and practiced performer.

    what I saw and how I feel about it is that Ed wanted to achieve the look and give the impression that he was just playing off the cuff-but 26 years in the spot light leaves you seeking to make an impression. Hence the laying on the stage playing. It was a practiced act. You don't feel comfortable in the middle of a high pressure gig just laying down and noodling for a bit in front of people that are going to judge you regardless of how well you play. They were not honest mistakes that he is learning from. Ed is making a statement, but what exactly is he saying?

    (I know this is just about Ed, but the same with Spam. Those hugs he goes around giving the audience are not filled with warmth and are not genuine. They are an act.)

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    Originally posted by MUSICMANN
    I can understand some of not playing live thing, but remember, we are not talking about your average Joe guitar player, we are talking about a true natural player, not even just a natural player, but one out of 2 or 3 guys ever to pick up the guitar. Shit even in the mid 80's and early 90's they went for 3 yrs. between albums and live gigs.
    Yep but it still means you're sloppy and disjointed. And you're right it was BETWEEN ALBUMS, when they they were creating something new, practising, rehearsing, getting ready (and excited) for the next tour - with a whole slew of NEW material - so it was about taking risks and making mistakes, but when it came to their new live set, they were ready.

    He just doesn't seem to be ready yet..

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    Originally posted by lms2
    Ed is making a statement, but what exactly is he saying?
    "I need motivation/inspiration on stage?"

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    Originally posted by MUSICMANN
    that's cool dude, i didn't mean to offend you on a opinion i had about this.
    No offense taken. I just have a different opinion as to why he's playing like "a two year old with broken fingers"!!!
    When EVH said that in GUITARWORLD more than 20 years ago about JIMMY PAGE, it really pissed me off. So, I find it ironic that when he has aged and lost some dexterity people rush to his deffense. INSTANT KARMA!!!!! Too many beers & perhaps arthritis have taken their toll on "the KING of 10 fingers and 6 strings". Quote, by the way, by DAVID LEE ROTH.


    DAVE OR THE GRAVE BABY!!!!

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    I don't know what Ed is trying to say or accomplish with this new found freedom he says he has. Weel shit he's not saying anything, that's the problem. If he would come out like he did in Biloxi and say, i'm going to noodle around for awhile and if it comes out great fine, but if it doesn't then just laugh with me about it, that would be atleast a honest answer. But i said it before, all the shit with Spammy going on is a put on farce. A money tour thrown togeither without any respect for the true fans.

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    Matt, point taken and understood bro.

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    It is actually refreshing to share differing opinions about Ed and not have any real reference to the rest of them. I'm a bit over "bashing" today...

    but tomorrow is another day... and lookout Spam and Alice!!

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    Me too, I'm so sick and tired of this circus, that is Vh these days. All i ever wanted was to see a real and complete reunion, with all the attitude and bravado that once was.

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    Originally posted by lms2
    Like looking for love in all the wrong places?
    LOL! I missed that one lms2, yeah.... absolutely..

    and I don't want to talk about those places...

  27. #27
    badhorsie
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    Originally posted by MUSICMANN
    Me too, I'm so sick and tired of this circus, that is Vh these days. All i ever wanted was to see a real and complete reunion, with all the attitude and bravado that once was.
    You do know it will never be like it once was right?

    I'm sure it will be a GOOD show(and a treat for people who never seen them before) but it will never be as good as it was back then.

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    Originally posted by badhorsie
    You do know it will never be like it once was right?

    I'm sure it will be a GOOD show(and a treat for people who never seen them before) but it will never be as good as it was back then.
    It will definately be a treat for us in Australia (if they ever come down here). Otherwise, I will be making the trek to the US to take in a few gigs.

    The first and only time we saw them was Van Cherone in 1998, although we were lucky to see at least the Skyscraper tour some 10 years earlier.

    So yeah, I would have to go, either here or overseas.

    But that if it was real. * sighs *

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    Originally posted by badhorsie
    I've never thought of Eddie as a "Studied" or a "trained" player. He is a very loose and very "Live" type of musician. He needs ALOT and i mean ALOT of live shows under his belt to get back what he's lost sitting around for years.

    I agree, Ed is one of the loosest players I can think of. Even the records contain little mistakes, certainly not the sign of someone fixated on the idea of perfection (try to find a mistake in any David Gilmore record, or a Brian May track, for example). Ed has always been an off the cuff player, very much driven by the vibe and the energy of the song.

    Which, I think, is at the root of his playing problems. I don't think Ed's feeling the vibe right now. Some of it is probably touring on a greatest hits package (he's got to be bored with some of the material), some of it might be attributed to some rust on in the gears (certainly playing rock guitar hasn't been job 1 for the last few years - understandably so when you've got cancer, divorce, etc).

    And yes, there is some danger in improvisation. You might have an off night and just suck... it's part of the thrill of playing that way. But the reports of sloppy playing that goes nowhere occur far too much of late to put the blame all on a bad improv session. There's more going on here than that.

    Lastly, you don't necessarily get better as you get older. Sometimes, (especially after the years of substance abusing that Ed's put in) you loose "it". Some wine gets better with age, some turns to vinegar.....

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    That was one helluva long justification just to say that Ed cant play
    his old shit anymore !

    I think he needs to jump back into those "boxes" you mention.
    How could he possibly fuckup "Unchained"? C'mon every guitar
    playing Van Halen fan can nail the opening riff in that song.

    Yet Ed cant ???????????

    A song he has played thousands and thousands of
    times in his life. Sorry I dont subscribe to your theory.
    EVH is not as good as he was. I agree that with a lot of gigs,
    it *MAY* get him back to a decent level again. I hope so..

    Then enter DLR !!!
    BABY PANA 2 IS Coming !! All across the land, let the love and beer flow !
    Love ya Mary Frances!

  31. #31
    John Holmes
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    Originally posted by Panamark
    That was one helluva long justification just to say that Ed cant play
    his old shit anymore !

    I think he needs to jump back into those "boxes" you mention.
    How could he possibly fuckup "Unchained"? C'mon every guitar
    playing Van Halen fan can nail the opening riff in that song.
    You bet any fan playing that can. Try playing "Master of Puppets" or "Creeping death" *all downstrokes* - at James Hetfield's record speed. Now, *that* is pretty challenging, as far as palm muting riffing goes.

    Yet Ed cant ???????????
    He can't because he's not been playing seriously guitar for years or, probably, because he's punch drunk on stage, so he's sloppy.

    Axl Rose said that one of the best talent of Slash was being able to play very good on a lot of drugs and booze. A talent not everybody share, apparently.


    A song he has played thousands and thousands of
    times in his life. Sorry I dont subscribe to your theory.
    EVH is not as good as he was. I agree that with a lot of gigs,
    it *MAY* get him back to a decent level again. I hope so..

    Then enter DLR !!!
    That won't happen, because the replaceable and dispensable Alex Van Halen probably is Dave's worst enemy. I wonder why, has Dave really fucked his wife?

  32. #32
    lms2
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    That won't happen, because the replaceable and dispensable Alex Van Halen probably is Dave's worst enemy. I wonder why, has Dave really fucked his wife?
    Which one? I think its a little more than that, but if not, someone needs to tell him, it takes two to tango. Therein lies the problem. Spam poses no threat.

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    Alice likes to think he controls the band from a business perspective
    these days. Something Dave was heavily involved with back in the day.
    Alice would rather stay in control with a "YES MAN" replacement singer,
    than hand the control over to the Diamond one again..

    Methinks theres a bit of this happening in there too.

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    I agree with everyone here. I was just looking at his playing of late and trying to come up with a few differant theories. It's cool that we can discuss Ed on a normal level without all the bashing. Don't get me wrong, I am suffering at what is going on right now, with this tour. And i know that if thay ever get back with Dave and tour, it will never be like the good ole days, but i would imagine that the band would be a hellava lot more motivated to do a album and tour, than what's going on now. that i know would lead to better playing from Ed.

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    This was possibly the dumbest post ever. You have basically just shit in the face of every musician that has ever existed, by excusing crap playing and lack of practice, as playing out of the box...those are two totally different things. You are not the only musician on this board. I have been playing guitar for about 25yrs. I know tons of musicians and not one would agree with you. As Billy Sheehan once said, "You have to learn the rules before you can break them." EVH is not breaking rules. He is breaking his legacy. When he gets up there before his solo what he really means is, " I don't give a shit about myself, this band and sure as hell not you, the fans. SInce I don't care about any of the above, and I am only touring for the sake of cashing in, I didn't bother to practice and as a result, I am very rusty. I know you paid $90 or more to see the show and although I know that is a lot of money for many of you I already stated that I DON:T CARE ABOUT YOU...so fuck you. I am going to stand here and haphazardly play this piece of wood strapped around my neck. If it should accidentally sound great...well that i s awesome. If not..FUCK YOU. I don't care about you. Didn't you hear what I said above. EAT ME I AM EVH." Do you think I would be playing with SAMMY if I cared about any of the above."

    By the way, if any non guitar playing jerkoff picked up EVH's guitar on stage, there is the slightest possiblility that it might sound good. 99% of the time it will sound like shit....like EVH.

  36. #36
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    Maybe your right, maybe he just doesn't care about his playing anymore. It was just a theory i had. I welome your opinion, you have been playing a lot longer than me and i just wanted to get some feedback on this. i thought it was much better to start a thread and dicuss his playing than just bash away at the guy. It gets kindof hard to keep reading the same stuff on here, every single day. Like i said in a earlier post, i didn't mean to offend anyone of my fellow soilders with this thread, just another tkae on the situation, that's all.

  37. #37
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    I'd just like to sit Ed down, throw a bucket of cold water on him and ask him what the fuck he think he is doing...

    and hope for a plausible explanation...

  38. #38
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    eddie is still the six string king
    Originally posted by RIKK

    Now, tj was indeed a major cunt. Indeed, he probably still is.

  39. #39
    guwapo_rocker
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    Originally posted by tjvhou812
    eddie is still the six string king
    And you are still the Bi Man from Rhode Island!

  40. #40
    guwapo_rocker
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    Posted outside Ed's dressing room...

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