JOHN 5 (Ex-Marylin Manson, David Lee Roth, Two)
**Exclusive**
By A. Lee Graham
Posted 9/12/04
(Pictured: John 5)
John 5 lost the fame but kept the name.
Months after Marilyn Manson gave him the boot, the artist formerly known as John Lowery is having the last laugh. Vertigo is his revenge, a guitar-driven monster that pisses over his past and announces a brave, new future for a guitarist both talented and tolerant.
"I had a great experience with Manson, but some things just don't last forever," says John, still enamored of the macabre frontman. "He's just a master of what he does, and he taught me a lot. I hold no ill feelings."
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Instead of lobbing invective at his former band leader, John raced to the recording studio and recorded Vertigo. Equal parts shred metal, industrial grind and country chicken picking - yes kids, country chicken picking - the indefatiguable axman redefines guitar prowess for a generation weaned on single-finger power chords and downtuned posturing.
"These kids really don't know guitar," laments John. "But that's cool. It just means I can maybe expose them to something new."
Coursing through Vertigo is a renegade spirit missing among today's artists. Within an electronic vortex proferring processed distortion and rib-rattling bass is genuinely scary guitar. Slashing the strings is the man behind David Lee Roth, Rob Halford and ... kd lang?
"Yeah, my fans probably wouldn't equate me with kd," laughs John, whose musical love affair knows no boundaries. From Rob Halford to Avril Lavigne, he leaves no genre unturned.
"Avril's actually very talented," says John. "We only worked together briefly, but she's definitely got it."
And so does John, no matter what Manson says.
Not only did he write the bulk of The Golden Age of Grotesque and toured the world with the Marilyn Manson freak show, John earned his stripes with David Lee Roth and Two, Rob Halford's industrial flirtation that saw the conflicted Judas Priest singer try something new.
"He was clearly more comfortable with metal, but it was something he had to do," says John. "He's a real pro, a pleasure to work with."
And David Lee Roth? "What can I say? I grew up jamming to Van Halen records, and Dave's just as you'd think he is. He's a real rock star."
Released as DLR Band in 1998, Diamond Dave's return to rock glory went unnoticed - and John joined Marilyn Manson. He harbors no regret, citing his fascination with Manson's mystique and a lifelong obsession with the macabre.
"It's not like I go around hacking up bodies or anything; the dark side's just interesting," says John, still sporting makeup and painted fingernails. Elaborate tattoos offer more evidence of hard living with the Manson clan.
But clean living ostensibly proved his undoing, distancing the guitarist from his bandmates and ultimately leading to his ouster.
"I don't dwell on the past," says John, eager to spread a new gospel. Vertigo lives up to its dizzying title, running the gamut from maniacal shred ("Feisty Cadavers") to "Sugar Foot Rag" and Sweet Georgia Brown," country standards given a new spin by the man wielding a customer Fender Telecaster.
Throw Jeff Beck's last three releases in a blender, toss in Manson's industrial grind and add a pinch of prairie picking, and we have one sizzling platter. John unwinds long enough to discuss the project, his past and the gig that got away.
Vertigo bridges so many styles. Was your intent to expand your audience beyond Marilyn Manson fans?
Of course. That, and the Marilyn Manson crowd didn't know I could play more than three chords. I really wanted to expose them to new music. I'm so into playing guitar, but Manson isn't that kind of band. I really wanted to put out an instrumental record where I could just go crazy on guitar. I think I did it. It's out of hand, like being on a roller coaster. The country side of it reminds me of backwoods murders. It's kind of like a soundtrack for that.
I see. So you lure Manson fans by giving country an insidious, backwoods spin?
Yeah. They all love that kind of thing, which I do, too. Those are the scariest people. They just live back there, and will kill you, skin you and wear your skin around. It's a soundtrack to them.
Some consider Shrapnel artists '80s dinosaurs. But Mike Varney's really kept current with new guitar trends. How do you fit into the mix?
That's a good question because when I was growing up, I liked Shrapnel artists. It was new, it was exciting to hear what was coming out.
Tony MacAlpine, Vinnie Moore - those guys were just starting out.
Right. That's what made Shrapnel exciting. When Epic wanted to release Vertigo, I was like, that's cool, but it wouldn't come out until next year. Their roster is so big, I would have been a small fish in a big pond. Shrapnel understands more what I'm doing guitar playing wise and how to market it. I was such a fan of that label. I figured I could create a long relationship with them.
You seemed well positioned to expose younger audiences to advanced guitar technique.
Why can't it be someone like me to reintroduce it to these new guitar players? I'd love to do that.
For years, lead guitar playing lay dormant. Now, it's returning with Shadows Fall, Unearth and these newer bands. Is there a renewed interest in lead playing?
Yeah, it's trying to come back, but the reason it's not coming back in such a huge urgency is because a lot of guitar players nowadays can't play like those guys because they've been schooled in Nirvana, where there's little guitar technique. And they hear this and say, "We can't really do that."
But when players came out of the Van Halen era, they kind of could already play like that.
So players coming out of the Van Halen era had Eddie and Randy Rhoads, but newer players that emerged from grunge didn't already have the technique.
Exactly, exactly exactly. That's exactly right. These people are coming out of Sum 41.
So they haven't exactly mastered "Icarus Dream Suite."
Yeah (laughs). I'm just doing it for the love of guitar. If it comes back, fine. But if it doesn't, fine. I'll still make fun instrumental records like this, too.
You've reinvented shred. I mean, who would've equated "Sugar Foot Rag" and "Sweet Georgia Brown" with fiery electric guitar?
That's another thing. Country music, the scene, is so conservative and traditional and so safe. I wanted to put a little black into their safe world, a little murder into their community.
Many of the new tracks mix an ultra-processed distortion with electronic effects. They almost mirror Jeff Beck's recent stuff.
Really?
Yeah, his last three discs really dig deep into techno while retaining that gutsy edge. Vertigo reminded me of that approach.
Wow, right after this interview, I've gotta go out and buy some of that stuff.
I think you'll dig it.
Cool.
Back to Vertigo. Is that pick rake in "Dead Man's Dream" sampled from "Runnin' With The Devil," or is that just coincidental?
That is me doing that. That's influenced from "Runnin' With The Devil," but I did it because I love Eddie.
Speaking of Eddie, tell me about your David Lee Roth experience. How did you land the gig, and why didn't you stay?
I was sitting on a friend's couch and was playing with Halford at the time (in the Judas Priest vocalist's band, Two.) I said, "I wonder what Dave's doing." I found his manager's number and said, "Hi, I'm John Lowery and I play with Rob Halford. Are you looking for music?"
He said not really. But I loved Van Halen and came up with these three songs and sent them to him. He asked me to send some more, and we did a record. We sold that pretty much out of David's house.
I bought a copy. It was really underrated.
Those were made out of Dave's house. The reason I didn't stay with Dave was I joined Marilyn Manson.
Why didn't you stay with Roth instead of joining Manson?
I was a huge fan of Marilyn Manson and really wanted to play with Manson. I was always intrigued by Marilyn Manson and blown away by him. It was a great opportunity.
Did the difference in your lifestyles - your abstaining from drugs and alcohol, and his reported substance use - ultimately split you apart? And even before then, did it make touring difficult?
In the end, it did. That's a great question. I wasn't a big drinker or into drugs or anything, but I loved the dark side and I'm very intrigued by serial killers and I'm like that in a way. So I think you're right: I was more into the music in general and other styles, too. But I never tried to bring it into Manson's world.
Your role was well defined within Marilyn Manson, so you'd never introduce a country lick or chicken-picking passage.
Never. I always stuck true to the Marilyn Manson sound.
Your role was like that of a studio guitarist in that you knew multiple styles but knew what the specific gig called for.
Yes, it's knowing exactly what not to play.
How did you pick the musicians on the disc, or did you handle all the instruments? Do they constitute the John 5 Band, or did they simply serve as studio players?
I had other musicians help me out - other bass players and other drummers. I didn't bring a lot of famous guys in. I just did everything myself and did it quickly in two months. Nowadays, it takes two years to make a record. I never really understood that. I just made it real quick. I got out of Manson just a little while ago and already have my new solo album.
KISS used to put out two records in a year. That was exciting to me. We're losing that nowadays. If someone puts out a record, your fans get older and move on to something else. Nowadays, girls listen to Hilary Duff and, a year and a half later, tastes change. Attention spans are so short.
Is the recording process itself more time-consuming, or does it just take forever dealing with the industry bureaucracy?
I think it's more that they're looking for that big hit single. It's a difficult thing to do. With instrumental music, obviously, I'm not looking for a top-40 hit single.
But has the politics of the recording industry become worse, like more back and forth between the studio and the board room?
Yeah. Even if you turn in the best album, they say go back and try to beat it. They say it just to say it.
Aside from you and Zakk Wylde, I can't name many rock guitarists so into country. Have you two discussed collaborating on the project together?
Me and Zakk are great, great friends. I first met Zakk when he got into Ozzy's band. That first week. He was in LA and came over. I was playing, and he was playing. He said he was the new guitarist in Ozzy's band. I said, "Holy shit!" He cooked us dinner.
Zakk's great. He's keeping rock guitar alive. He definitely needs to be applauded for keeping this whole guitar shred movement going. He's a great guy.
So what did Zakk cook?
He made a steak and cut up some tomatoes. He had this big, huge long hair and was such a cool, nice, down-to-earth guy. On the last tour, Ozzfest, I rode with him on the bus.
To say you hold eclectic tastes is an understatement. From Buck Owens to Yngwie Malmsteen, your palette seems endless. How does one appreciate both country and shred metal?
"Hee Haw" was what really got me into it. It was this really corny TV show..
Roy Clark and Buck Owens: pickin' and grinnin'!
Yeah. It had great music and hot chicks on it. I remember seeing this little kid who tore it up, and he was my age. I wanted to do that. Back in the South, they put instruments in little kids' hands instead of video games.
Did you grow up in the South?
No, I'm from Michigan. But I appreciate their music.
When did you first start playing? What were your early influences?
I loved Jimi Hendrix, then KISS and then I moved on to Van Halen, then to Steve Vai and got into the whole shred-like craziness like Malmsteen, Vinnie Moore, etc. Nowadays, I'm the same person I wss when I was little, but I dig Albert Lee, Buckethead, Scottie Anderson and all those guys.
Have you incorporated those influences into your playing, or do they merely inspire your work?
Absolutely. All of them including Buckethead.
But does anybody really know Buckethead?
No one. That's one of the reasons I really like him. What a smart, smart, smart individual. He releases so many records.
Most of them on Bill Laswell's Axiom label.
Yeah. He really keeps his persona up.
From Buckethead to Marilyn Manson, you seem drawn to enigmatic performers with real mystery.
For some reason, I am. That's true. It always has to do with great musicians, but there's always something more.
Reports of your departure - or firing - differ dramatically. Marilyn has his account, and you have yours. What's the real story behind your exit from Marilyn Manson earlier this year?
What actually happened was, at the end of the tour, we were just on different roads. It was completely amicable. He just wanted to write with other members of the band, and I wanted to do other things.
Besides the Vertigo project, I also have a rock radio band called Loser. It's more MTV-type rock. I want to make instrumental records, too. But he wanted to do other stuff, but it's cool. We're still friends.
Really? I got a different sense from his comments.
No, we're cool.
So were his comments just to stir controversy?
I don't know, but everything's fine.
Any possibility of a future collaboration?
I don't know. I have no bad blood with him. I'd be open to it.
Do you miss wearing the makeup and costumes, or do you still apply the eyeliner and face paint?!
If you look at older photos, I always wore makeup.
You definitely sported the face paint in Two. When Rob disbanded Two, did it feel like a slap in the face when he said his real love lay with metal and that Two was maybe not where his heart lay?
No. He appreciated Nine Inch Nails, White Zombie - that kind of stuff - and just wanted to experiment with new sounds. He did and maybe it wasn't him.
You've served many masters. How was working with David Lee Roth, Rob Halford and Marilyn Manson different?
Rob was a true, true professional. He was so good at his craft.. He was such a pleasure. Working with him was fantastic because he's such a great guy. I don't think I ever saw him mad.
David Lee Roth is the true rock star. He was running the show: "This is how we're going to do it, boys," like the old Van Halen. I had a blast with David Lee Roth. As for Manson, everyone always asks me if Manson is real. He definitely is real and a true artist.
He's a great songwriter, producer, a great individual. That's why I stayed with Manson. He was so real. He was not a joke. But all three are very different individuals.
Adapting to each artist's working style much have been challenging. Did you see yourself as a chameleon, adjusting to situation?
Yeah, but that's true with any job.
I'm assuming John 5 was your Marilyn Manson stage name. If so, why not go back to John Lowery?
It has a biblical meaning. Plus there are five points on a pentagram. So it has this weird meaning. Marilyn Manson gave me that name when I first joined the band. Lots of people know me as John 5, so I wanted to keep John 5.
At least for kd lang, you not only recorded, but helped as a songwriter, as well. Is that true?
With kd, that's where I learned most of the country stuff. She had great country players. All of them were multi-instrumental. They played mandolin, lap steel, pedal steel. That was the norm. It was like you and I learn how to ride a bike or drive a car. I just knew how to play guitar.
What role did you serve with Avril Lavigne? From what I understand, most of her music was done by the time you entered the picture.
With Avril, we just wrote songs together. It was only 10 days or so. She is a great songwriter and has great ideas. There's a reason why she's famous.
Now that Vertigo's out, what's next? Are you touring? Collaborating with any big-name artists?
I'm going to do a tour and am also working on the Loser project. I'm also writing the next instrumental record and will tour in the winter time with Vertigo.
Thanks for your time, John.
Hey, no problem. Take it easy.
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