Van Halen is beyond repair

[Terry]

Would like to preface this by stating that the output produced by classic Van Halen hasn't diminished with age one iota, and I dig the music just as much now (if not more) than I did when it was first released.

Don't really think it matters if Hagar bails and Roth comes back or not, in terms of making Van Halen a band with a viable, creative future.

The way I see it, the opportunity the classic four had to put it all back together and move forward with integrity in 1996 was shot to shit (no two guesses who bears the brunt of the responsibility for that, either). There won't be another chance like that again, and if the aborted 2000 reunion demonstrated anything, it's that these guys can't get it together. For seemingly petty reasons to us on the outside, but there it is.

Ed.........well, he's just befuddled. Just an example of Nero fiddling while Rome burned. Alex has stepped up as the de facto leader for Van Halen. Both Ed and Al have been cocooned in fantasyland for too long (where half-filled arenas and three new song releases in 6 years are an indication of a successful, legendary rock band), and the shuttle won't be landing back on planet Earth anytime soon.

Classic VH required all four members firing on all four cylinders to work. Roth alone isn't enough to make the band rise from the ashes. It would take attitudinal and artistic changes on behalf of the others to get the Phoenix airborn, and those are concessions the Van Halens aren't even willing to admit to, never mind make.

About the only possibility I can see, realistically, is a reunion tour of oldies. Probably not played at 100% of what the band was and is capable of, either. Would be a cash grab more than anything else. For some that may be fine. I can understand the need to take a classic VH reunion however you can get it.

Regarding my own expectations based on the standards the classic lineup set for itself and the fans in terms of quality, content and performance, the scenario I described isn't gonna cut it. Not even by a long shot.

[scottydabodi]

Terry, I read/skimmed your post, and you rock, brutha! I still think if DLR was running the show, he'd could get them into some sorta fighting shape, but I understand what you mean, and there's a great chance that you're fucken RIGHT. Sad but True.

[Matt White]

The ONLY chance they have is DAVID LEE ROTH!!!!


DAVE OR THE GRAVE MOTHERFUCKERS!!!

[Lou]

I think there's just no shot at a real reunion happening given the state of this band. I don't think either party wants each other right now and that's just a damn shame.

[bueno bob]

Well thought out post, my man.

I'm tempted to agree with you on most parts. For all intensive purposes, Van Halen has relegated itself into the classic rock arena. While I have ZERO DOUBT in my mind that a Roth reunion would/will result in a sold out tour, airplay off the charts and megazillion albums sold, in the end that's what it'll probably amount to - a classic rock revisited "oldies but goodies" tour.

On the one hand, I want it NO MATTER THE PRICE...I was too young to have caught the REAL Van Halen live and it'd be a once in a lifetime opportunity; no ticket price would be too high, no commute too absurd.

On the other hand, David's the only one who appears to be in any sort of shape to do it. Mike's irrelevant, Al's too worried about breaking his neck and Ed just noodles in between fucking up his own songs. This is NOT the Van Halen I want to see. Christ, it'd be more exciting going to see David live, at least THAT'S a high energy performance.

On the third hand (?), you wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which fills up first!

I don't know, it's an AMAZINGLY hard call. I think they fucking OWE us a reunion album/tour, but under these conditions, with those three guys falling the fuck apart, is there truly any point? Maybe sometimes it really is best to just walk away and be able to say "You know what? It was a hell of a ride, but the brightest flames burn quickest..."

I'm worse than John Kerry I have so many fuckin' opinions on this,

Over and over though, you come right back to it - 1996 was THE TIME. And they dropped the ball in a Big Fuckin' Way. Whether they can pick it up again (and still run with it) is the question.

Maybe we'll get our answer.

[Panamark]

Great post Tezza !

After watching Ed's diminished abilities on this tour.
He really isnt up to the level required for the original
band to be duly represented..

My 1% hope is that even though this Hagar shit sucks
elephant cocks, Ed is at least starting to practice.
Perhaps with enough hours under his belt, he might
be able to pull it off again.. I know, its a slim hope I hold
onto..

[DrMaddVibe]

Too much bad blood and too much time wasted to make this even a viable option.

Those 2 bastards flat out USED Dave in 2000. I still remember the reaction of the crowd eating up seeing them together again. Then I remember looking at EdWAD's face...it told the whole story. It was there all along but we didn't want to see it. He smiles but shakes his head no, Alex is smiriking at Roth the entire time. They knew they were knifing him in the back in front of the people that created them...the MTV vidiots.

Dave has moved on and I really hope he capitalizes on recording something, anything with the current line-up. Put the acoustic remakes on there, or even beat Van Hagar to the punch and do an MTV unpluggged cd with the 6 pack.

Van Hagar has to live with what they've done, not just to themselves but to what remaining fans they have. Music, and good music at that is supposed to be shared with the fans not held back and put in jars.

As long as Dave keeps on being true to himself, I'll be buying his stuff everytime it comes out. I encourage everyone here on this board to do the same. If you haven't bought all of Dave's solo stuff..DO IT! For Dave, and for Rock n Roll!

[light 'em up!]

Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
Those 2 bastards flat out USED Dave in 2000.

They've always used Dave... ever since the early days when they used him for his PA and a nice place to practice. They used him in '96, 2000, and before it's all said and done they will try to use him again.... I bet he gets the call before year's end.

[BIG GOOSE]

Suppose he gets the call from Al.
I hope it would go some thing like...

Al;Dave how are ya!We want ya back in the band.
Dave:Could you call me back in 30,I'm plowing your new girlfriend.

[Big Troubles]

Van Halen as we knew it, is done. Sam made damn sure that this band will be unrepairable. Sam turned it into a top 40 pop band without substance or meaning. Too many love songs, not enough kick ass. Dave would be wise to step to the left of everything ED and Al end up doing with their beer soaked lives. Fuck em Dave- Leave the boys wanting more-

[bueno bob]

Originally posted by Big Troubles
Van Halen as we knew it, is done. Sam made damn sure that this band will be unrepairable. Sam turned it into a top 40 pop band without substance or meaning. Too many love songs, not enough kick ass. Dave would be wise to step to the left of everything ED and Al end up doing with their beer soaked lives. Fuck em Dave- Leave the boys wanting more-

Well, Sam and Ed together...I think Ed was pussifying himself and his music pretty well and Sam was just the right singer to do it with. 1984 (DONT GET ME WRONG, LOVE THE ALBUM!!!!) was, at times, a more friendly Van Halen than before, and I think Ed was going to take it in a radio-friendly direction anyway. Had Roth not quit in 85, he would have been handed the music for 5150 in late 85 and been fired after he told them what kind of crap it was, then VH would have made the announcement that they were looking for a new lead singer...point of the matter is, you'd have had 5150 in 87 rather than 86.

Was bound to happen.

I'm NOT apologizing for Hagar in any way, shape or form; merely stating that it was a tag-team effort between the two of them to water down Van Halen to the point of almost complete unrecognition, which is what Ed no doubt wanted in the first place.

[DrMaddVibe]

Originally posted by light 'em up!
They've always used Dave... ever since the early days when they used him for his PA and a nice place to practice. They used him in '96, 2000, and before it's all said and done they will try to use him again.... I bet he gets the call before year's end.

Yeah he has been used, but in 2000 he didn't have a say in the matter. Can I borrow your PA?...Uh sure. Can I play at your house...uh ok. Wanna record some tunes with us? SURE! It's not the same type of abuse that I was talking about.

[Bad Muthafucker]

Originally posted by BIG GOOSE
Suppose he gets the call from Al.
I hope it would go some thing like...

Al;Dave how are ya!We want ya back in the band.
Dave:Could you call me back in 30,I'm plowing your new girlfriend.

like McDonald's, i'm lovin' it!!!

[thepunisher]

As much as I would like a reunion, much of what you say may be true. The VH sisters, MA, theyre so cheesy and the word 'pussified' is right on. I'd like to see Dave bust a bottle of that hot sauce on fatso's head.

[Big Troubles]

Originally posted by bueno bob
Well, Sam and Ed together...I think Ed was pussifying himself and his music pretty well and Sam was just the right singer to do it with. 1984 (DONT GET ME WRONG, LOVE THE ALBUM!!!!) was, at times, a more friendly Van Halen than before, and I think Ed was going to take it in a radio-friendly direction anyway. Had Roth not quit in 85, he would have been handed the music for 5150 in late 85 and been fired after he told them what kind of crap it was, then VH would have made the announcement that they were looking for a new lead singer...point of the matter is, you'd have had 5150 in 87 rather than 86.

Was bound to happen.

I'm NOT apologizing for Hagar in any way, shape or form; merely stating that it was a tag-team effort between the two of them to water down Van Halen to the point of almost complete unrecognition, which is what Ed no doubt wanted in the first place.

true enough. But I question what 5150 would've sounded like had Roth sang on it and not Hagar. There would be no dreams, love walks in or why cant this be love. Thats for sure.

[lesfunk]

I agree with Terry 100%

[bueno bob]

Originally posted by Big Troubles
true enough. But I question what 5150 would've sounded like had Roth sang on it and not Hagar. There would be no dreams, love walks in or why cant this be love. Thats for sure.

Very true. Makes you wonder if maybe there's some stuff floating around somewhere that was dicked around with in the studio in 85 that hasn't surfaced...I'd almost bet money there is, even if it's just half assed shit that hadn't even been really worked on. I can see Dave putting some work on something like Get Up, Good Enough, and maybe 5150 (the song), with David attending those lyrically and the loss of the electronic percussion, the replacement of dreams, love walks in and why cant this be love (as mentioned), in place of that 3 other songs...

Would have been interesting. The world will never know, sadly.

[Roth & Roll]

Terry, as usual another insightful and dead-on accurate post.
I agree with you 100%.

The time was in '96 - when opportunity knocks you've got to answer the door. The problem is that Eddie and Al weren't home.

[bueno bob]

They were home, they just were too drunk to find the door.

[fanofdave]

yes, it's true that van hagar has watered down the legend
of the once mighty VH band. BUT....

whenever I listen to "Me Wise Magic" and "Can't Get This
Stuff No More" you see what a good shot of Dave can do
to reenergize the band. Ed tore up the guitar on MWM
and I believe its because Dave brings out the best in the
band. Since Dave is still kicking ass (at age 50, I might add)
he can still do the same motivating to those other lame
fuckers. Do I think they'll ever reunite? It's not looking
good; but Do I think there's still some rock and roll left
in the original lineup if they did reunite? You bet your
fucking ass I do. Dave hasn't disappointed before and
he wouldn't start if the 5150 head fluffers would wake up
and get with the program.

[chefcraig]

Originally posted by fanofdave
yes, it's true that van hagar has watered down the legend
of the once mighty VH band. BUT....

whenever I listen to "Me Wise Magic" and "Can't Get This
Stuff No More" you see what a good shot of Dave can do
to reenergize the band. Ed tore up the guitar on MWM
and I believe its because Dave brings out the best in the
band. Since Dave is still kicking ass (at age 50, I might add)
he can still do the same motivating to those other lame
fuckers. Do I think they'll ever reunite? It's not looking
good; but Do I think there's still some rock and roll left
in the original lineup if they did reunite? You bet your
fucking ass I do. Dave hasn't disappointed before and
he wouldn't start if the 5150 head fluffers would wake up
and get with the program.

You see...Dave suppying inspiration is not the problem, it's if Ed Van Halen reponds to it.

I've seen first hand (and heard the bootlegs of) Ed's playing on this tour...It may seem fantastic to someone whom has never heard the band, yet to me it is simply depressing.

At this point, Dave and his backing group treat the music with more conviction and respect.

Studio wise, in a controlled environment with a strong producer, I believe it would work, as one can repair mistakes.

Live, bearing witness to Ed's current state...forget it.

IMHO.
...craig

[bueno bob]

A lot of things would have to work out...

Sam would have to go, period; Dave would have to agree to talk; Al and David would have to bury the hatchet or else the whole thing'll fall apart in under a month; Ted Templeman and Don Landee should be brought back on board; renegotiate a deal with Warner Bros.; Ed needs to get dried out and re-dedicate himself to playing, period, with no outside distractions; the profits from all Van Halen ventures with Roth past, present and future need to be split 25% each across the board (otherwise it becomes a study in "Kiss' How To Ruin A Reunion 101")...

A LOT of work for that all to fall into place.

Now, stranger things have happened, but...I don't know...

[sambo]

Not sure whether they can pull it off... a lot needs to happen.. I hope so, but Dave could very well say "fuck you" to the lot of them.. no matter what the sisters intentions. Maybe they had their chance in 1996 and they fucked it, and Dave does not want to go down that path again.

No one to blame but themselves.

It's hard not to be cynical...

[Bill Lumbergh]

I think I have YET to disagree with a Terry post......right on the money again. And BT, shut up........what would you do without Dreams etc. those are the soundtrack of your life!

[BIG GOOSE]

Originally posted by bueno bob
Well, Sam and Ed together...I think Ed was pussifying himself and his music pretty well and Sam was just the right singer to do it with. 1984 (DONT GET ME WRONG, LOVE THE ALBUM!!!!) was, at times, a more friendly Van Halen than before, and I think Ed was going to take it in a radio-friendly direction anyway. Had Roth not quit in 85, he would have been handed the music for 5150 in late 85 and been fired after he told them what kind of crap it was, then VH would have made the announcement that they were looking for a new lead singer...point of the matter is, you'd have had 5150 in 87 rather than 86.

Was bound to happen.

I'm NOT apologizing for Hagar in any way, shape or form; merely stating that it was a tag-team effort between the two of them to water down Van Halen to the point of almost complete unrecognition, which is what Ed no doubt wanted in the first place.

This is a most excellent post.5 to you !!

[stilleddiesangel]

Cant agree with the "used" word where Dave's concerned. I find it difficult to believe Dave could be used by anyone. Roth's far too switch on for that, Dave is always thinking 2 steps ahead and he pretty much got the senario straight from the start but went with it to see where it would go. Ed has said to Dave that he's jealous of Dave's ability to do exactly what he wants when he wants without the pressures of Management, band etc. Whether that be musically or with his adventures, Dave just sees what he wants to do and goes for it. I love Ed to bits but u can see he's intimidated by Roth's character.

96 was a HUGE wasted opportunity, both Dave and VH had matured musically and the result was MWM which is IMO one of the best songs I have ever (non-vh included) ever heard. Ed's on fire and Dave's superb. The arrogance, and the ATTITUDE came back in one magnificent swoop. What a shame there wasn't more.

[RogueHorseman]

Originally posted by stilleddiesange
96 was a HUGE wasted opportunity, both Dave and VH had matured musically and the result was MWM which is IMO one of the best songs I have ever (non-vh included) ever heard. Ed's on fire and Dave's superb. The arrogance, and the ATTITUDE came back in one magnificent swoop. What a shame there wasn't more.

So true.

Ditto.

Ditto.

Ditto.

Ditto.

Ditto.

Ditto.