A Christian Can Be a Christian or a Liberal, But He Can’t Be Both

[BigBadBrian]

A Christian Can Be a Christian or a Liberal, But He Can’t Be Both
Doug Giles

October 23, 2004


Can a Christian be a liberal? Short answer: no. There is no way a Christian can buy into neo-liberal ideology and be faithful to the bigger-than-Dallas teachings of the scripture and expect to continue enjoying his hard-won religious liberties.

For the "Christian" to lean politically to the left means that he must blow off huge chunks of the Bible and replace the scripture with the make-believe notions of postmodernism’s malleable "Christ." Only after torturing the scripture can the Christian then fit liberalism into his supposed relationship with God.

For the Christian who believes that unfeigned faith in Christ should correspond with Jesus’ high view of scripture, it is… now… impossible to believe in God and be an adherent to postmodern liberalism.

The twain no longer meet. Liberalism has been hijacked by bizarre special-interest thugs who spit on the Word of God and believe that the Bible has no place in public life, (except maybe in a museum where people can look at it from time to time).

The Christian who has a bent to the liberal left needs to understand something: while he is skipping around the maypole with his rose-colored glasses on, if it were up to the modern, secularized liberal establishment, he would be more restricted than Bill when Hillary’s in town. Yes, if the Christophobic thugs had it their way, Christians would be relegated to a marginalized spiritual ghetto on the sidelines of life.

For the naïve Christian voter who thinks he can toss a ballot in the Nuevo liberal direction, please know that a vote toward the secular left could leave you bereft of sacred liberties. Thanks to the aggressive ludicrous liberal lug nuts’ anti-Christian agenda, your vote for a liberal, Christian, is a vote for …

1. Christianity to be scrubbed from government and whatever turf the government owns. Thanks to the liberals, the Ten Commandments have about as much acceptance in our government and their properties as Rush Limbaugh would at Al Franken’s family reunion. Yes, the Judeo-Christian principles that formed the rock-solid foundation of this great American Experiment are now aggressively fought against by the lascivious left.

If… if… the secularists continue to stay behind the wheel of this American bus, you can kiss all semblance of Christianity good-bye in this heretofore God-graced government. Saint, you might as well say farewell to our government’s recognizing Christmas and adios to Good Friday if you’re going to vote the liberal ticket. If the secularists have it their way, Easter will be behind your keister, and you can kiss the Cross good-night as an acceptable public symbol that represents your faith and our nation’s recognition of Christ’s atoning work.

2. Secularism to be continually mainlined into our public school system. Thanks to rabid vapid secularism, our public schools and universities would rather you be a Rocky Horror super freak than a Christian. If your beliefs run to the bizarre or the banal, or if you want to smoke the same philosophical crack that Caligula, Nero, Castro or Lenin freebased, they’ll accommodate you.
Our schools are totally open to anyone and to anything, unless, of course, you’re a Christian. And if that’s the case, then you’re likely to get more sympathy from a badger with minimal sleep than you will from liberal educators who are hard at work making your life hard. A vote for the secular left is a vote for Christianity to continue to
be officially vilified on campus and Christians to be ostracized in campus life.

3. Public officials, employees and appointees to be pressured to hide their faith in the closet and suppress their public displays of belief in God lest they be grouped with Hitler, Osama, or Mussolini and then fired. Not only will the liberals aggressively work to prohibit the State from green lighting and recognizing Christianity as a legitimate and positive force in our land, they will also attempt to stifle Christians from influencing the path of government.

4. Public attacks on churches and Christians and attempts to restrict them in the private sector. Consider this, Christian pastor and Christian lay person looking to vote for the ludicrous left: the secular Mafioso’s intent is to make your ministerial life difficult, your evangelistic work taxing and your voice minimized. And good luck, pastor and church committee, in trying to buy property and get zoning with the anti-Christian libs at the helm.

5. The continued media endorsement of the same putrid hedonistic stuff that sunk ancient Rome. Yes, with the liberals in place, expect more weird crap in movies and on television. Expect to see more paintings of Christian symbols/ saints smeared with elephant dung. Expect Christianity to be bashed and vilified and Christians made out to be buckled-shoed morons with three teeth and an IQ of 50. Expect the culture to coarsen. Expect your kids to continue to be exposed to things that only rock stars see backstage with groupies. A vote for a liberal is a vote to see Christians continue to receive special ridicule and be flogged more than a piñata during a Cinco de Mayo festival.

My ClashPoint is this: Modern liberalism tosses the scripture out on several different levels. How a true believer in the Christ defined by the scripture can buy into what Jesus, the prophets and apostles said and also what these secular thugs say is beyond me. In addition to liberalism’s obvious and odious pro-holocaust-like abortion stance, its anti-biblical view of marriage, its scripture-slamming aggressive secularism, and its feckless view of our nation’s defense, liberalism completely clashes with the Christian worldview. Secular liberalism’s aggressive desire to eradicate Christians’ rights should cause Christians to be concerned.

The Democratic Party’s liberalism has degenerated over the last 40-50 years in regard to its view of Christianity and Christian rights. This party, which formerly embraced and protected our nation’s great Christian heritage and teachings, no longer does so. Thus, today the Christian is between a rock and a hard place: he can either be a Christian or a liberal, but he cannot be both.

[knuckleboner]

wow, is this a bunch of hyped up, mostly nonsense.

the others are mostly baseless. oh, i'm sure in a country of several thousand jurisdications and 300 million people, he can find 1 or 2 examples. but it's not widespread calamity.


P.S.: any election predictions of the ol' commonwealth, BBB? i'm guessing 52-47 bush...

[Jesus Christ]

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.

Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.

Rejoice, and be exceedingly glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.

Ye are the salt of the earth: but if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted? it is thenceforth good for nothing, but to be cast out, and to be trodden under foot of men.

Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.

Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.

Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

Ye have heard that it was said of them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment:
But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.

Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee;
Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift.

Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison.

Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.
Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.

It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery. Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.

But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.
Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloak also.
And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.


These are My teachings. If thou art a "Christian" then ye should live by them.

There is no "liberal" or "conservative" involved in that, My children. Do not distort My word or that of My Dad to support thy political positions

[McCarrens]

A true Christian cannot be a liberal. No true Christian desires the killing of babies or believes that it is okay for a gay man to lead a Protestant church.

[knuckleboner]

and i could say that a true Christian can't be a conservative, in favor of the death penalty or the cessation of aid to mothers who have too many babies...

that said, where exactly does Jesus proclaim homosexuality a sin?

[Jesus Christ]

Originally posted by knuckleboner


that said, where exactly does Jesus proclaim homosexuality a sin?

Good question, My son.

And Sesh.... stayeth out of this!

[McCarrens]

Me still no like grammar because of stupid thread, but me think He made conservatives because He not want liberals to trick everyone into think He not exist.

Me also think beleiving you Jesus bad and not healthy for self-esteem.

[McCarrens]

Originally posted by knuckleboner
that said, where exactly does Jesus proclaim homosexuality a sin?

Killing killers and slaughtering baby two different thing, said McCarrens.

And Jesus say homosexuality a sin in Bible. Duh, everyone know that. Even grammatcially-challeneged people like me.

[Jesus Christ]

Originally posted by McCarrens


And Jesus say homosexuality a sin in Bible. Duh, everyone know that. Even grammatcially-challeneged people like me.

I never said one word on the subject, My son.

[knuckleboner]

no doubt. i'm not a fan, but i really don't consider capital punishment murder. still...doesn't really seem like Jesus' brand of justice.

and, since we're not talking mormon here, i kind of assumed i was referring to the bible. where exactly in the bible? i mean, i don't need book, chapter and verse. a simple, "sermon on the mount," or "adam & adam parable" will do...

[McCarrens]

Originally posted by Jesus Christ
I never said one word on the subject, My son.

This prove you false coloring of the Son.

[McCarrens]

Originally posted by knuckleboner
no doubt. i'm not a fan, but i really don't consider capital punishment murder. still...doesn't really seem like Jesus' brand of justice.

and, since we're not talking mormon here, i kind of assumed i was referring to the bible. where exactly in the bible? i mean, i don't need book, chapter and verse. a simple, "sermon on the mount," or "adam & adam parable" will do...

What you want reference to? Me no fanatical church goes so investigation may take many moons.

[Jesus Christ]

Originally posted by McCarrens
This prove you false coloring of the Son.

I think I know My own gospels pretty well.

Here are My words, if ye insist on hearing some:

Judge not, lest ye be judged.

Do unto others as ye would have them do unto you.

Love thy neighbor as thyself.

I think that about covers it.

[DLR'sCock]

Jesus was about helping people, the poor, the sick, in beaten down, the thief, the fool....

Jesus was about man coming together instead of being torn apart by understanding, truth, compassion, and forgivenss...

Jesus was not about hoarding wealth...

Jesus was not about a class system....

To Jesus all people are equal and the same...all should be loved and helped with no intetion for reward....

Jesus was an enemy of war...

Jesus was an enemy of hate...


Jesus is the opposite of fear...

Jesus was an enemy of racism, prejudice, and discrimnation...

Jesus was above the petty, and many of man who think they are so much more but in truth are so much less....

Jesus was an enemy of those who knowingly and intentionally manipulate others for their own personal gain(whether it be social gain, political gain, economical gain or any form of false empowerment)....He was against those that use and manipulate the masses who do not have the same capability to see that they are being manipulated whether it be because of their lacking in education, their intelligence, or their upbringing and influence on their lives....




Whether Jesus was merely a man or "the son of God"....I don't know....but he was and is a noble and humble being with so much to offer, it truly is a sadness that so many have no idea what they do......and those that know of what they do, well, the truth will unvail itself in due time....


then again, I am only a simple person....so what do I know???

[Jesus Christ]

Originally posted by DLR'sCock
Jesus was about helping people, the poor, the sick, in beaten down, the thief, the fool....

Jesus was about man coming together instead of being torn apart by understanding, truth, compassion, and forgivenss...

Jesus was not about hoarding wealth...

Jesus was not about a class system....

To Jesus all people are equal and the same...all should be loved and helped with no intetion for reward....

Jesus was an enemy of war...

Jesus was an enemy of hate...


Jesus is the opposite of fear...

Jesus was an enemy of racism, prejudice, and discrimnation...

Jesus was above the petty, and many of man who think they are so much more but in truth are so much less....

Jesus was an enemy of those who knowingly and intentionally manipulate others for their own personal gain(whether it be social gain, political gain, economical gain or any form of false empowerment)....He was against those that use and manipulate the masses who do not have the same capability to see that they are being manipulated whether it be because of their lacking in education, their intelligence, or their upbringing and influence on their lives....




Whether Jesus was merely a man or "the son of God"....I don't know....but he was and is a noble and humble being with so much to offer, it truly is a sadness that so many have no idea what they do......and those that know of what they do, well, the truth will unvail itself in due time....


then again, I am only a simple person....so what do I know???

You know a lot more than many self professed "Christians", My son

[Cathedral]

Ford, Shut Up...The bible clearly speaks out against homosexuality.

Leviticus 18-20
Specifically Lev 19 verse 22, and I quote: Thou shalt NOT lie with mankind, as with womankind: It is an "abomination".

Also, Romans 2 verses 25 - 32 (Read it, you will be enlightened)

Ford, you speak of that which you are ignorant in, therefore you decieve the people of this board in the name of Jesus Christ.

May God have pity on your soul, my brother.

[Cathedral]

A true Christian chooses neither party as a label. He votes what is most in line with Christianity, and that is not a vote for the Democratic Party.
They hardly ever consider themselves one or the other.

A Christian who votes for a Democrat will have an awful lot of explaining to do come Judgement Day.

[Guitar Shark]

Cat, don't you see the inherent contradiction between this statement..

Originally posted by Cathedral
A true Christian chooses neither party as a label.

and this one?

Originally posted by Cathedral
A Christian who votes for a Democrat will have an awful lot of explaining to do come Judgement Day.

And by the way, isn't Leviticus a book from the Old Testament? I thought the question was whether Jesus ever said homosexuality was a sin.

[FORD]

Originally posted by Cathedral
Ford, Shut Up...The bible clearly speaks out against homosexuality.

Leviticus 18-20
Specifically Lev 19 verse 22, and I quote: Thou shalt NOT lie with mankind, as with womankind: It is an "abomination".

Also, Romans 2 verses 25 - 32 (Read it, you will be enlightened)

Ford, you speak of that which you are ignorant in, therefore you decieve the people of this board in the name of Jesus Christ.

May God have pity on your soul, my brother.

Jesus didn't write Leviticus or Romans. And the rulebook for an obscure sect of ancient priest, or the opinions of a man known for being extremely hateful and prejudiced, can not be attributed to Jesus, who wasn't even present on this planet when either was written.

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by Guitar Shark
Cat, don't you see the inherent contradiction between this statement..

No, i don't. A Christian will cast a vote based on who supports their values. It is their right to do so in an attempt to keep the immoral out of office.
Which if it weren't for the believers, this country would have done itself in a long time ago.
It's a checks and balances type of situation.



and this one?
No again, Because the Liberal Party supports those things which are an abomination to God. It's hard to be blessed by God if you support the murder of innocent children in the womb while reaming your buddy Dave in the rumper.

Silence is not an option for the faithful Christian so a choice must be made based on faith, and values.




And by the way, isn't Leviticus a book from the Old Testament? I thought the question was whether Jesus ever said homosexuality was a sin.

The Trinity states that The father, The Son and The Holy Ghost are one in the same.

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by FORD
Jesus didn't write Leviticus or Romans. And the rulebook for an obscure sect of ancient priest, or the opinions of a man known for being extremely hateful and prejudiced, can not be attributed to Jesus, who wasn't even present on this planet when either was written.

Don't waste your spin on me, tell it to your maker. It is clear what the "Word" of God is on this matter.

If Jesus hadn't been sentenced to death by a Liberal mind (cared nothing for truth or facts), who knows what else he would have said to his followers.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Saint, you might as well say farewell to our government’s recognizing Christmas and adios to Good Friday if you’re going to vote the liberal ticket. If the secularists have it their way, Easter will be behind your keister, and you can kiss the Cross good-night as an acceptable public symbol that represents your faith and our nation’s recognition of Christ’s atoning work.

First of all, there's no need to bring holidays into this. Everyone loves holidays!

Second, saying that soon Christians won't be able to wear crosses in the US because of bad liberals is some of the most inciteful nonsense I've ever read.

[HELLVIS]

Originally posted by Cathedral
The Trinity states that The father, The Son and The Holy Ghost are one in the same.

Man, you're good Cathedral. I was just reading through this thread and planning to reply once I'd read it all. But, you beat me to the punch on every angle I planned to take. I think I'll just step back and let you work. You seem to have the dogs on a shorter chain than they realize. I guess that's why they keep choking themselves.

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Cathedral
The Trinity states that The father, The Son and The Holy Ghost are one in the same.

Cat, that went straight over their heads concerning who wrote the Bible.

[FORD]

Bottom line is that GOD didn't write one word of the Bible. The words of Jesus in the Gospels were probably the closest you'll get to a direct quote, and even those are interpreted slighltly different between the 4 Gospels.

Moses and Paul were both murderers, so they were hardly perfect beings. What they wrote contained many of their own prejudices. Let's not forget that shortly before writing Romans, Paul was stalking Christians and killing them for fun.

These guys were hardly infallible.

[Cathedral]

Hey, I'm just sitting here browsing while eating my dinner. It got cold on this subject, lol.

I am just amazed at how people lean to their own understanding, myself included, I am no angel.

Feel free to jump in though, the water is plenty warm.

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by FORD
Bottom line is that GOD didn't write one word of the Bible. The words of Jesus in the Gospels were probably the closest you'll get to a direct quote, and even those are interpreted slighltly different between the 4 Gospels.

Moses and Paul were both murderers, so they were hardly perfect beings. What they wrote contained many of their own prejudices. Let's not forget that shortly before writing Romans, Paul was stalking Christians and killing them for fun.

These guys were hardly infallible.

Dude, there isn't one single person that ever has or will walk this earth that is "infallible" besides Jesus himself, and even he wasn't perfect.

Your reasoning of all things is terribly ignorant by damn near every standard it could be.

But we all know now that you think the bible is just a novel written by men.
Like i said, May God have mercy on your soul...

[HELLVIS]

Originally posted by FORD
Bottom line is that GOD didn't write one word of the Bible. The words of Jesus in the Gospels were probably the closest you'll get to a direct quote, and even those are interpreted slighltly different between the 4 Gospels.

Moses and Paul were both murderers, so they were hardly perfect beings. What they wrote contained many of their own prejudices. Let's not forget that shortly before writing Romans, Paul was stalking Christians and killing them for fun.

These guys were hardly infallible.

You are correct sir!
God didn't write it. Men did.
However, Jesus never denied any of the old testament. He only stated that was then this is now ( in so many words ).
With that being said, if one is to quote Jesus and the new testament as truth and the old testament as fallacy. He then is, in effect calling Jesus a liar, therefore nullifying his own argument.

[HELLVIS]

Damn, do people really talk like this?
It's like Wayne's World. We're a bunch of dumb-ass rockers waxing philosophic.

[ELVIS]

Let's hear you spin more of the Bible, FORD...

[FORD]

There are verses in Leviticus that refer to bats as birds and insist that all insects have 4 legs. Obviously these are not true statements. If God wrote, or even directly dictated the Bible, word for word, then that would make God a liar, since He certainly knows those things aren't true.

Now obviously, I don't think God is a liar. Which only leaves the reality that He didn't write the book.

In no way does that devalue the Gospels, or the books of prophecy or the historical material included in the other books. A lot of Truth can be found in the Bible, but that doesn't mean God dropped it out of the sky in one piece.

[ELVIS]

Originally posted by HELLVIS
God didn't write it. Men did.

The bible is the inspired word of God...

We are all God's children, and he uses people for his purpose, if we're willing to let him...

God used the authors of the bible to write his word...

[HELLVIS]

Hey ELVIS, what's up?

[ELVIS]

Not much...

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by FORD
There are verses in Leviticus that refer to bats as birds and insist that all insects have 4 legs. Obviously these are not true statements. If God wrote, or even directly dictated the Bible, word for word, then that would make God a liar, since He certainly knows those things aren't true.

Now obviously, I don't think God is a liar. Which only leaves the reality that He didn't write the book.

In no way does that devalue the Gospels, or the books of prophecy or the historical material included in the other books. A lot of Truth can be found in the Bible, but that doesn't mean God dropped it out of the sky in one piece.

I never said it fell out of the sky in 1 piece, I was just pointing out that the scripture does speak against homosexuality, and it does.

Picking and choosing what you want to believe from the bible will be a one way ticket to Hell, and you should know better than that. until now, I assumed you knew that.

[HELLVIS]

Originally posted by ELVIS
The bible is the inspired word of God...

We are all God's children, and he uses people for his purpose, if we're willing to let him...

God used the authors of the bible to write his word...

And...you are correct sir!

[ELVIS]

I don't know what's so hard to understand about that...

[HELLVIS]

Search me?

[Nickdfresh]

Sounds like Doug Giles has more in common with like minded religious extremists in al-Qaida and the Taliban than our founding fathers. Assholes like this pseudo-moralist cunt must make Thomas Jefferson roll over in his grave. I'm sure Giles was smiling on 9/11 along with his no-doubt heroes Rev. Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson as the airliners smashed into the Trade Center towers. Both men essentially said America deserved to be attacked because our nation was rife with immoral homosexuals, liberals, and abortionists. I guess birds of a feather... (in religious fundamentalist fascist cults i.e. al-Qaida, The Moral Majority etc.)

[knuckleboner]

Originally posted by Cathedral

If Jesus hadn't been sentenced to death by a Liberal mind (cared nothing for truth or facts), who knows what else he would have said to his followers.

(well, technically, cat, Jesus was sentenced by a conservative mind...in that sense of conservative preserving the status quo...)

but seriously, i believe Jesus said he was the fulfillment of the old testatment. but, there are a few things in the old testament at odds with the new, correct?

i mean, i'm pretty sure the old testament doesn't give too much flexibility on when/how one should observe the sabbath. the pharasees in the new testament thought they had a pretty good read on that. but Jesus seems to think a bit differently.

Jesus never said that homosexuality was ok, to be sure. but he also spoke a bit about compassion for jews and gentiles alike. if God/Jesus believes that homosexuals should be condemned, He'll do it; as judgment is the Lord's. but absent Jesus' teaching on the subject, i don't think it's inherent that Christians can't support civil (secular) rights for them.