Eddie Van Halen ---> Final Meltdown in Arizona--->November 19, 2004.

[WARF]

Originally posted by Nickdfresh
I still haven't seen anything in the mainstream media about this. Not to be skeptical, but if fucking Vanilla Ice made the entertainment news today, why didn't Ed's rampage?

What happened to Vanilla Ice today???

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by WARF
What happened to Vanilla Ice today???

His animals got loose and terrorized the neighborhood. Nothing major, as long as his "music" stays in captivity.

[stringfelowhawk]

Everyone has a point but from a personal standpoint let me say this...

Alcoholism can and is considered many things. There has recently been evidence of it possibly being a dormant trait passed on in a persons DNA. I've personally lived with alcoholics my entire life. My father, my grandmother, my stepbrother, my stepmother, my moms boyfriend etc. To put it mildly, I left home at 14 because standing up to them became a violent act. I have heard it is considered a disease also. I'll say this, if its a disease and they know it, why do they "choose" to not take their medicine? Its a metaphor and not meant literally but its fact that most of the alcoholics I've lived with "KNOW" they have a problem and claim they want to get better, but none of them have or did until something catastrophic happened to make them. How many times do you have to lead a horse to water before it drinks? I love my grandmother to death. She is 90 years old and still gets around fine. She quit drinking 57 years ago. On Jan.2 it will be 58 years ago. She stopped cold turkey. No intervention, no rehab, nothing. She once told me one night after she got really, really, snockered (she's 4 foot 8 inches, 92 lbs, cherokee and Irish decent and could drink many of soldiers under the table) that she went home one night and went to take a bath. She just happened to look in the medicine cabinet for some asprin and found a mini bottle of whiskey. It dawned on her what she had become and has not had so much as a sip of wine since. You can say its disease, you can say its choice, I don't know. I'll just say if they don't want to quit, there is nothing in the world that will make them until they are ready. Its apparent Ed is not ready and probably won't be until its to late. That's really sad, he was one hellova guitar player once in one hellova fun band. 20 years later he's just another Rock cliche' and that pains me to say. Dave was right to leave and if his own wife and kid can't make him stop, I doubt Dave can either. I know for a fact Al can't, he's probably telling him to have another the way that vindictive motherfucker thinks.
For the future of Van Halen or not. I really hope he takes care of himself for his kids sake cause I'm living proof once that bridge gets burned it takes divine intervention to rebuild it. I'm rebuilding mine now after 12 years of estrangement. I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

[lms2]

Alcoholism is a disease. The fact that it is a disease is not an excuse to let it run rampant.

There is no medicine you can take to "cure" alcoholism. You can educate yourself on the disease, whether you are the alcoholic, or the family dealing with it. The fact is that whether an alcoholic is drinking, or not, it is something you deal with everyday. But millions of people DO deal with it, effectively, everyday.

I think it is funny as anything that Dave's EMT glory made world wide news.... and Eddie's rampage didn't get shit.

Guess we know now who's news worthy!

[Lou]

Alcoholism is not a disease, it's an addiction. You're not born addicted to alcohol, just like you're not born addicted to smoking or drugs.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Lou
Alcoholism is not a disease, it's an addiction. You're not born addicted to alcohol, just like you're not born addicted to smoking or drugs.

Having some experience in the subject, I do not think it is a cut and dry "nature vs. nurture" thing. I think many factors combine to result in alcoholism. Studies have shown that some people have a greater predispostion to becoming addicts or have the classic "addictive personality."

That does not mean that self-control plays no part in it. A person can stand back and see that they have a problem if they are willing to seek help and not live in a perpetual victimhood state of mind. Alcohol is caused by a combination of factors are both genetically predetermined but are also subject to the choices of the person that knows that he/she has a problem on some level.

[WARF]

Alcohol is an Edoholic.

[Mezro]

Originally posted by diamondsgirl
Mezro, you know I dig you, but it is not a FACT that alcoholism is a weakness. That is your opinion and I respect it. But, I think there may be things you don't know.

I have researched this disease. And I am enabling no one. People are born alcoholics, that has been proven scientifically. They don't suddenly become alcoholics because they pick up a drink. And they are still alcoholics years after they put the last drink down. The desire to drink heavily is a symptom of a chemical imbalance. The disease starts out more as a mental illness/obsession/compulsion and eventually becomes physical as the person becomes addicted to the substance.

I do agree that alcoholics who do not seek help are weak. And anyone who hits their spouse is weak. Alcoholic or not.
I also agree that anyone who uses the "excuse" that this is a disease, to continue drinking is weak.

And I dig you diamondsgirl but I will respectfully disagree with you.

Mental problems are indeed an illness and alcoholism is a weakness that can be caused by an illness.

Mezro...where I said "FACT" I should have said "my opinion"...but I still stand by my opinion...

[lms2]

Okay, fine... I will give you that. Addiction is a disease, alcohol is a drug of choice. But still, you can't argue that Dave is newsworthy while EVH is not!

[glensfallspaul]

"The general concensus is that Dave wouldn't join because the band wanted him only as a hired gun (as Ace and Peter were on the KISS reunion tours). Dave wouldn't accept that (Sammy did when he rejoined). He wanted his proper share of the reunion profits. And he was right!!!"

Dave certainly was right -- even if it meant that the big reunion never would happen. The "hired gun" status of Ace and Peter in the KISS reunion caused big tensions in the end, resulting first in Peter leaving, then Ace. To not give Roth an equal share of the profits, when he was a founding member of the band (and, during his tenure with VH, a main focal point) was short sighted.

Van Halen and their management was being pennywise but dollar foolish. They would have really cleaned up with Roth back out front.

[Switch84]

Preaching to the choir, Mezro!

Originally posted by Mezro
I don't feel sorry for him.

If Ed is too much of a weak, destructive asshole to put the bottle down then fuck him.

I am tired of people hand holding/coddling/enabling drug addicts and alcoholics. All the excuses in the world don't change one simple fact: alcoholism is a weakness not a fucking illness.

I love people that belly up to the bar night in and night out, light up a butt and tell the world about all the great things they plan on doing. This is the catfish element of society; bottom feeders who exist on shit and scum (and my tax dollars of course).

Ed, you are a fucking failure as a human being and a disgrace as a father. Drunk bum/piece of shit. Someday your money will run out, your hands will shake and your playing days will be over. What will you do then?

Mezro...losers will always find excuses and excuses will always find losers...

Holy shit this is so TRUE! I've had members of my family that were alcoholics and drug addicts, and I tell ya, it ain't pretty! I've cut them off from my life because I REFUSE to enable them. These are self-inflicted ailments, just like cigarette smoking (which I do, and enjoy it. I blame NOONE.)

Dave should NEVER give this piece of shit another chance! He should keep that motherfucker in the rear view mirror, Baby!

And fuck all of this bleeding heart bullshit "Dave should come to the rescue" crap! DAVE DOESN'T OWE ED SHIT! It's not his responsibility to be Eddie Van Breakdown's personal 'Jesus'. If that bitch wants to be 'saved', he needs to do it himself.

[steve]

Originally posted by Fabulous Shadow
Can ya pull your head out of your Sam vs Dave ass mindset for possibly 5 minutes and explore the possibility that the problem with this band is acutally the fact that this man is acloholic who can't get along with ANYONE? Not Dave's fault, not Sam's fault, NOT Ed's fault! He's a fucking alcoholic. Everybody keeps coming back to him TRYING to make it work, KNOWING full well that IT'S NEVER GONNA CHANGE! What's that saying? About doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results? Com'on FORD gimme a BREAK! The man is a great guitar player and these guys WANT to work with him, alcoholic or not. When the cookie crumbles, they need not point fingers, they knew what they were getting themselves into.

I AGREE WITH YOUR ASSESMENT OF EDDIE AS A TROUBLED MAN - BUT ANGER THAT BOILS TO THE SURFACE THIS WAY IS NOT AS SIMPLE AS "ALCOHOLISM", IN MY OPINION.

EXPLOSIONS OF RAGE THAT BOIL TO THE SURFACE LIKE THIS HAVE FUNDEMENTAL REASONS - SUCH AS RESENTMENT. IN THIS CASE I THINK IT IS TOTALLY VALID TO BRING UP THE EDDIE'S (AND ALEX'S) MIS-PLACED RESENTMENT THAT HAS BEEN DIRECTED AT DLR FOR 20 YEARS. THAT'S A LOT OF HATE.

EDDIE VAN HALEN'S WHOLE IDENTITY IS TIED TO THE SONGS THAT MADE HIM FAMOUS - THE SONGS HE WROTE WITH DLR. "I AM YOU AND YOU ARE ME" - ME WISE MAGIC. HIS WIFE, HIS LIFESTYLE - EVERYTHING CAN BE TRACED BACK TO THE ORIGINAL VAN HALEN - WHICH WHEN YOU BOIL IT DOWN WAS REALLY ABOUT EDDIE AND DAVE CO-WRITING SONGS OVER ONE DECADE...THE MOST SIGNIFICANT DECADE IN EACH OF THEIR LIVES.

EDDIE AND ALEX DO EVERYTHIGN THEY CAN TO DENIGRATE THAT DECADE, BUT AT THE SAME TIME EXPLOIT IT FOR ALL IT IS WORTH...THIS TO ME, NOT THE ALCOHOLISM, IS THE REAL ISSUE AT HEART.

THE ALCOHOL DOESN'T HELP OF COURSE, BUT IT IS MERELY FANS THE FLAMES.

THE ONLY WAY OUT OF THIS WEB OF ANGER FOR EVH (AND AVH) IS TO GET OVER THEIR RESENTMENT - MALICIOUS, VICIOUS HATRED - OF DAVID LEE ROTH.
DAVE SEEMS TO BE AT PEACE WITH THE VH LEGEND. WHEN ASKED ABOUT CLASSIC VH, DAVE USES PHRASES LIKE "I SALUTE IT" - DAVE NOT ONLY IS AT PEACE WITH HIS PAST, HE EMBRACES IT. AND FRANKLY, THAT IS WHY DAVE SEEMS TO BE, FOR ALL HIS QUIRKS (WE ALL HAVE 'EM IN OUR OWN WAYS), AN INDIVIDUAL AT PEACE WITH HIMSELF.

SORRY TO SOUND LIKE A MONOLOGUE FROM KARATE KID, BUT THIS IS WHAT IS AT ISSUE.

[DavidLeeNatra]

caps locked?

[DavidLeeNatra]

Originally posted by Mezro
And I dig you diamondsgirl but I will respectfully disagree with you.

Mental problems are indeed an illness and alcoholism is a weakness that can be caused by an illness.

Mezro...where I said "FACT" I should have said "my opinion"...but I still stand by my opinion...

agree with you, mez...my father died when he was 36 from drinking...heavy drinking...noone filled his glass but him, noone brought the bottles...he was an addict not strong enough to say NO...I feel sorry for the kid (look at him, he seems to "eat" his problems) because I know what he's going through...but I don't feel sorry for ed. he is old enough to know his responsibility as a father and as a grown up human being...as dave said...he's a weakling and his sister is a triple weakling...

[steve]

Sorry - I was just tryin' to differentiate between the quote i was answering and my post.