File Sharing May Increase Record Sales

[FORD]

We used to have something in this country called "radio" where you could hear a lot of good music played and then buy the stuff that was good.

Now they have something called "radio" which plays nothing but corporate crap like Titney Spears and the Backdoor Boys, and any new real music goes unheard.

Unless it turns up online. Napster in it's heyday was like FM radio in the late 70's. And guess what? Back in the late 70's and early 80's I taped a lot of shit off the radio too. Including a lot of "pre-released" albums. And then bought them on vinyl the day they hit the stores.

The irony is that the RIAA likes to bitch about bootlegs, even though they don't lose one goddamned dime on bootlegs, because the material isn't offerred for sale (by them) in the first place. Online sharing of boots has KILLED any profit potential in bootlegging, and has returned that sort of thing to exactly what it should be, fans of a band sharing rare recordings with each other.

As for the corporations, fuck'em. I can't come up with much sympathy for an industry where bands that actually write songs and play instruments can't even get signed, much less get on the charts.

[Figs]

I taped Van Halen II in its entirety off the radio. I have since purchased the six pack twice (vinyl & cd). My local station played entire albums at midnight every night, with a pause before and after each side so you'd have a nice tape. I bought quite a few that I had taped first.

Fuck it!

[Big Train]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
Train, the bottom line is that if you want to sell albums, you need to make good albums. And there's been maybe two or three out for this whole worthless year.

You guys need to stop investing all of your money in the insulting bullshit being pumped from record companies like it's a god-damn commodity like oil or steel.

Any counter to this point will require you to tell me how a piece of shit like Ashlee Simpson gets to record a professional CD and get the promotional capital to appear on SNL. It's laughable to me.

The stuff is crap and nobody should be buying it. And it's the record companies' fault. You guys work with MTV, you create the wants and then you cater to it. You could have people wanting talent, but you have them wanting a bunch of garbage.

You guys have some AMAZING logic. If a piece of music isn't something you personally like, it shouldn't be invested in. Ashlee Simpson is a joke musically, but she brings HUGE marketing opps for us, which is why she sold 3 million units. The job is half done for us. The bands you would be into, I would bet my life couldn't sell half of that number. I see it every fucking day of my life. All these people who claim if you pump money into indie band A, it would sell tons. RARELY happens. Especially in the last decade, the alt movement really didn't pay off.

And yes OD, it is a commodity. Art is what you do in your home. Once you start trying to "Sell your wares" to the public, you are now a music business person like the rest of us, whether you like it or not.

It seems like people have 8-9 arguments why its ok to steal music and I have yet to hear anything but spinning plates. Legitimate reasonings I have yet to hear.

[Big Train]

Originally posted by FORD
We used to have something in this country called "radio" where you could hear a lot of good music played and then buy the stuff that was good.

Now they have something called "radio" which plays nothing but corporate crap like Titney Spears and the Backdoor Boys, and any new real music goes unheard.

Unless it turns up online. Napster in it's heyday was like FM radio in the late 70's. And guess what? Back in the late 70's and early 80's I taped a lot of shit off the radio too. Including a lot of "pre-released" albums. And then bought them on vinyl the day they hit the stores.

The irony is that the RIAA likes to bitch about bootlegs, even though they don't lose one goddamned dime on bootlegs, because the material isn't offerred for sale (by them) in the first place. Online sharing of boots has KILLED any profit potential in bootlegging, and has returned that sort of thing to exactly what it should be, fans of a band sharing rare recordings with each other.

As for the corporations, fuck'em. I can't come up with much sympathy for an industry where bands that actually write songs and play instruments can't even get signed, much less get on the charts.

I myself am no fan of corp. radio, the ways they make us bend and spend is crazy. It also stifles lots of what we have to do. So do the big box retailers, who fuck the indie record stores, where a lot of acts can be broken wide to a larger audience.

Like I said before, I have no problem with streaming or sampling (30-45 sec samples, which any legit service has). I WANT you to hear everything we have to offer, the pop stuff and the indie stuff. However, taking the product home for free is not acceptable.

[FORD]

If you could only test drive a car for 30-45 seconds, would that be enough for you to know if you wanted to buy it?

[Big Train]

Yes, if EVERYTHING in the car (song) last 2-3 minutes. Not to mention you get to do this to EVERY car on the lot (er, album) to follow your logic.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Big Train
Ashlee Simpson is a joke musically, but she brings HUGE marketing opps for us, which is why she sold 3 million units.

Just because her also talentless sister came before her? They should both be eating out of dumpsters. This is what I'm talking about. There's 200 singers behind her with real voices and a real stage presence. If you guys pushed talent, it would start selling again.

The job is half done for us. The bands you would be into, I would bet my life couldn't sell half of that number.

You're right about that. Two of my favorite bands released amazing albums in 2001 (STP and Black Crowes) and then immediately broke up due to poor sales. They're old guys sure. But one of the reasons the great music on those records went mostly unlistened to is because people who would have liked it were too busy buying shit-ass Crazy Town albums you guys promoted because the one guy had lots of tattoos.

And yes OD, it is a commodity.

People are supposed to be proud of their work. I bet a lot of people in your industry are at least secretly ashamed of the crap they have to promote. But the bucks are there!

It seems like people have 8-9 arguments why its ok to steal music and I have yet to hear anything but spinning plates. Legitimate reasonings I have yet to hear.

I never said it's ok to "steal" music. I download the hell out of bootlegs, but that's because they're not for sale. I got to the fucking record store and search up and down for a CD I want to buy. I'm dying to throw money at you guys and you don't have shit to sell me. It sucks. I've left the record store empty handed on occasion when I couldn't find a single CD worth buying. I'm just mad because I'm selfish and I want more awesome music to listen to.

[Big Train]

Just because her also talentless sister came before her? And she had a TV Show.

YES!!!!!! ABSOLUTELY!!! We HAVE A WINNER!! We are in a business selling product, units. Am I ashamed of what we sell? Not really. Is it my personal taste? Most of it no, but some yes. But what does it matter?? My job is to find what people want to buy RIGHT NOW. The 2000 singers you mention aren't doing what they need to do.

You have a misconception about what we actually do. We are a bank, looking to invest in artists. We don't build, we INVEST in what's already there. She was a slam dunk.

With STP and the Black Crowes, are you blaming the music industry for consumers preferences? We should only promote what you like or what a few tastemakers like? Doesn't make any business sense. We sell what we think people will buy or have demonstrated in a limited capacity already what they will buy.

I'm not "Proud" of every album we have ever released, but I am proud of the work that my colleagues and I do everyday.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Big Train
My job is to find what people want to buy RIGHT NOW.


How hard could that be? Find the hottest, sluttiest chick possible and teach her a couple of dance steps.

With STP and the Black Crowes, are you blaming the music industry for consumers preferences?

The promotion on both albums was crap. That was somebody's fault. If it was out there where kids could see it, they'd buy it. That's what they do. They buy whatever you put in front of them.

I don't know man, it's not all "the industry's" fault, a lot has to do with the fact that the people out there will buy fuckin' anything once it has the seal of approval. It's everybody's fault.

[Big Train]

Sounds more like your mad at other consumers than the industry. If they don't like it, the record goes away pure and simple. We give shots everyday to things we think will work and they don't. 98% of ALL records fail every year. Those 20 or so records like Ashlee Simpson pay a lot of bills and allow us to continue to take chances tomorrow.

The bottom line artistically is that tastes have changed and expectations have changed. Both STP and the Black Crowes put out decent albums, but the truth is the public didn't react to them for whatever reason. Doesn't mean they were bad albums or that people didn't do their jobs. You can't sell what they don't want.

But they can steal what they do want...

[WolfStar999]

If mp3s are killing record sales, then how the hell did I manage to develop one of the most financially & socially debilitating music shopping compulsions known to mankind?!?! Answer that one, and I'll give you a dollar...along with my bagel and Diet Dr. Pepper.

[Big Train]

How am I supposed to respond to that? You guys are exceptions that prove the rule. YOU personally may have developed some sort of addiction (even though OD says nothing is worth buying), but by and large that is not happening, although I truly wish it were.

You can keep the Diet Dr. Pepper...ewwwwww

[WolfStar999]

Well I already ate the bagel, Big Train...and the dollar...it sorta got lodged in a stripper's cunt (no fooling- sucked it up like a vacuum!). Don't be hatin' on my soda though!

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Big Train
Sounds more like your mad at other consumers than the industry. If they don't like it, the record goes away pure and simple.

I don't think you are taking into account the music biz's role in shaping tastes.

[Big Train]

We certainly have some effect, but ultimately it is the consumers choice as far as what we sell. Were we supposed to ignore the southern rap movement, Lil' Jon for example (who sells tons on an indie label), in favor of the Black Crowes, who's sales have been slowing and who's new product isn't reacting?