Bush Urges Americans To Give Iraq Soldiers Homecoming Vietnam Vets Didn't Get

[Big Train]

No, he asked another kid to take his place while he went off to Oxford to smoke weed and bang English birds..

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
Thanks for helping us stay on topic Warham.

Considering we're talking about people dodging out of the service, it's a relevant issue.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
Presidents have the right to speak to military crowds and be respected. But as far as I'm concerned, they DO NOT have the right to wear military uniforms. No president that I recall from this century has done so except one. The President is a civilian and should dress like one.

Personally, if I were a Marine, I'd find gw's get up in that picture above offensive. That and his flightsuit bullshit is the most shockingly jingoistic crap I've ever seen in this country. I'm ashamed. When gw flew to that carrier was they day I knew something was terribly wrong. I think that might have been the moment I knew gw was definitely full of dog shit.

Hmmm...presidents that wear uniforms and place their likenesses on billboards...

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Warham
Why would you find that offensive? The president has been the Commander-in-Chief of the military since ole Georgie was president.

Because by donning a uniform, you are saying you are part of an organization. He isn't in the Marines and he did not earn the right to wear their uniform, just like every Marine recruit has to.

You really need to forgive Clinton for banging your old lady or the wounds will never heal.

[Warham]

The following is Colonel Eugene Holmes's September 1992 affidavit concerning Bill Clinton and the draft.

Colonel Eugene Holmes is a highly decorated officer of the United States Army. He is a survivor of the Bataan Death March and three and a half years as a POW of the Japanese. He served 32 years in the army before retiring with 100% disability. His decorations include the Silver Star, 2 Bronze Stars, 2 Legions of Merit, the Army Commendation Medal and many others. During the Vietnam War, he personally inducted both his sons into the service--one for 3 years as a regular army enlisted man, and the other as a commissioned officer (after he had completed ROTC training).


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There have been many unanswered questions as to the circumstances surrounding Bill Clinton's involvement with the ROTC department at the University of Arkansas. Prior to this time I have not felt the necessity for discussing the details. The reason I have not done so before is that my poor physical health (a consequence of participation in the Battan Death March and the subsequent three and a half years interment in Japanese POW camps) has precluded me from getting into what I felt was unnecessary involvement. However, present polls show that there is the imminent danger to our country of a draft dodger becoming Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces of the United States. While it is true, as Mr. Clinton has stated, that there were many others who avoided serving their country in the Vietnam war, they are not aspiring to be the President of the United States.
The tremendous implications of the possibility of his becoming Commander-in-Chief of the United States Armed Forces compels me now to comment on the facts concerning Mr. Clinton's evasion of the draft. This account would not have been imperative had Bill Clinton been completely honest with the American public concerning this matter. But as Mr. Clinton replied on a news conference this evening (September 5, 1992) after being asked another particular about his dodging the draft, "Almost everyone concerned with these incidents are dead. I have no more comments to make". Since I may be the only person living who can give a first hand account of what actually transpired, I am obligated by my love for my country and my sense of duty to divulge what actually happened and make it a matter of record.
Bill Clinton came to see me at my home in 1969 to discuss his desire to enroll in the ROTC program at the University of Arkansas. We engaged in an extensive, approximately two (2) hour interview. At no time during this long conversation about his desire to join the program did he inform me of his involvement, participation and actually organizing protests against the United States involvement in South East Asia. He was shrewd enough to realize that had I been aware of his activities, he would not have been accepted into the ROTC program as a potential officer in the United States Army.
The next day I began to receive phone calls regarding Bill Clinton's draft status. I was informed by the draft board that it was of interest to Senator Fullbright's office that Bill Clinton, a Rhodes Scholar, should be admitted to the ROTC program. I received several such calls. The general message conveyed by the draft board to me was that Senator Fullbright's office was putting pressure on them and that they needed my help. I then made the necessary arrangements to enroll Mr. Clinton into the ROTC program at the University of Arkansas.
I was not "saving" him from serving his country, as he erroneously thanked me for in his letter from England (dated December 3, 1969). I was making it possible for a Rhodes Scholar to serve in the military as an officer. In retrospect I see that Mr. Clinton had no intention of following through with his agreement to join the Army ROTC program at the University of Arkansas or to attend the University of Arkansas Law School. I had explained to him the necessity of enrolling at the University of Arkansas as a student in order to be eligible to take the ROTC program at the University. He never enrolled at the University of Arkansas, but instead enrolled at Yale after attending Oxford. I believe that he purposely deceived me, using the possibility of joining the ROTC as a ploy to work with the draft board to delay his induction and get a new draft classification.
The December 3rd letter written to me by Mr. Clinton, and subsequently taken from the files by Lt. Col. Clint Jones, my executive officer, was placed into the ROTC files so that a record would be available in case the applicant should again petition to enter the ROTC program. The information in that letter alone would have restricted Bill Clinton from ever qualifying to be an officer in the United States Military. Even more significant was his lack of veracity in purposefully defrauding the military by deceiving me, both in concealing his anti-military activities overseas and his counterfeit intentions for later military service. These actions cause me to question both his patriotism and his integrity.
When I consider the calabre, the bravery, and the patriotism of the fine young soldiers whose deaths I have witnessed, and others whose funerals I have attended.... When I reflect on not only the willingness but eagerness that so many of them displayed in their earnest desire to defend and serve their country, it is untenable and incomprehensible to me that a man who was not merely unwilling to serve his country, but actually protested against its military, should ever be in the position of Commander-in-Chief of our armed Forces.
I write this declaration not only for the living and future generations, but for those who fought and died for our country. If space and time permitted I would include the names of the ones I knew and fought with, and along with them I would mention my brother Bob, who was killed during World War II and is buried in Cambridge, England (at the age of 23, about the age Bill Clinton was when he was over in England protesting the war).
I have agonized over whether or not to submit this statement to the American people. But, I realize that even though I served my country by being in the military for over 32 years, and having gone through the ordeal of months of combat under the worst of conditions followed by years of imprisonment by the Japanese, it is not enough. I'm writing these comments to let everyone know that I love my country more than I do my own personal security and well-being. I will go to my grave loving these United States of America and the liberty for which so many men have fought and died.
Because of my poor physical condition this will be my final statement. I will make no further comments to any of the media regarding this issue.

Eugene J. Holmes, Colonel, U.S.A., Ret, September 1992

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Big Train
No, he asked another kid to take his place while he went off to Oxford to smoke weed and bang English birds..

But he was against the war, and Dubya was all for it!

FORTUNATE SON Lyrics

Some folks are born made to wave the flag,
ooh, they're red, white and blue.
And when the band plays "Hail To The Chief",
oh, they point the cannon at you, Lord,

It ain't me, it ain't me,
I ain't no senator's son,
It ain't me, it ain't me,
I ain't no fortunate one, no,

Some folks are born silver spoon in hand,
Lord, don't they help themselves, oh.
But when the taxman come to the door,
Lord, the house look a like a rummage sale, yes,

It ain't me, it ain't me,
I ain't no millionaire's son.
It ain't me, it ain't me,
I ain't no fortunate one, no.

Yeh, some folks inherit star spangled eyes,
ooh, they send you down to war, Lord,
And when you ask them, how much should we give,
oh, they only answer, more, more, more, yoh,

It ain't me, it ain't me,
I ain't no military son,
It ain't me, it ain't me,
I ain't no fortunate one,

It ain't me, it ain't me,
I ain't no fortunate one, no no no,
It ain't me, it ain't me,
I ain't no fortunate son, no no no,

- John C, Fogerty

[Warham]

Clinton never served his country and Dubya did. End of story.

[Warham]

Clinton's Prestigious Military Record:

Bill Clinton registers for the draft on September 8, 1964, accepting all contractual conditions of registering for the draft. Given Selective Service Number 3 26 46 228.

Bill Clinton classified 2-S on November 17, 1964
Bill Clinton reclassified 1-A on March 20, 1968
Bill Clinton ordered to report for induction on July 28, 1969
Bill Clinton dishonors order to report and is not inducted into the military
Bill Clinton reclassified 1-D after enlisting in the United States Army Reserves on August 07,1969 under authority of Colonel E. Holmes.
Clinton signs enlistment papers and takes oath of enlistment
Bill Clinton fails to report to his duty station at the University of Arkansas ROTC, September 1969
Bill Clinton reclassified 1-A on October 30, 1969, as enlistment with Army Reserves is revoked by Colonel E. Holmes and Clinton now AWOL and subject to arrest under Public Law 90-40 (2)(a) "registrant who has failed to report...remain liable for induction"
Bill Clinton's birth date lottery number is 311, drawn December 1, 1969, but anyone who has already been ordered to report for induction, is INELIGIBLE!
Bill Clinton runs for Congress (1974), while a fugitive from justice under Public Law 90-40
Bill Clinton runs for Arkansas Attorney General (1976), while a fugitive from justice

All these facts come from Freedom of Information requests, public laws, and various books that have been published, and have not been refuted by Clinton.

[Blacklisted]

Originally posted by blueturk
.Dubya also made parallels between Iraq and World War II,but that's not even what pissed me off.

The reason he is making parallels with WW II is because Iraq has been a part of the Axis since WW II. The British had an airbase in Iraq during WW II and the Iraqi's attacked the base which has lead to them being on the Axis since WW II. Check out the RAF website and read about it.

Iraq has been a problem for the Allied forces since then.

[Nickdfresh]

Originally posted by Warham
Clinton never served his country and Dubya did. End of story.

Well, sort of until he went AWOL and stopped showing up to drills. I once had a grizzled old prick of a Master Sergeant in the reserves, when I once missed a drill (which I made up) he told me that "during Vietnam, we used to send soldiers who missed drills over there!"

I asked him if he ever served in Vietnam and he said no, so I called him a pussy! He got pissed but God he was afucking cunt.

Anyways, when you've got "connections," I guess you could miss whatever you wanted.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Considering we're talking about people dodging out of the service, it's a relevant issue.

BBB, we were talking about presidents donning military garb after dodging service. I don't recall seeing Clinton in anything except business suits and jogging suits the entire time he was in office.

[Warham]

Now I'll agree with that.

Bush got into the Guard because of pops and got out early because of pops, but he didn't flee the country. He served about four out of the six years, and then filed for an honorable discharge and received it after he entered Harvard in 1973.

[blueturk]

Originally posted by Big Train
It's valid OD. GW is just giving a speech and Turk is calling his credentials into question about it, which are irrelevant. Why not go even further and discuss other presidents and their rights to speak to crowds of military personnel?

How many of those presidents who never served in the military proclaimed themselves a "war president'?

[Big Train]

He is "president" , during a time of "war". How many used that exact verbiage, I don't know, I'm not a scholar. Are you saying he doesn't have the right to make that claim?

[Blacklisted]

Considering the state of the world and the terrorist attacks that have occured it is a time of war.

Clinton was in power during a time of "war" the "War on Drugs". The only difference is those wars were not full out war but small highly tactical missions with little or no collateral damage. Keep in mind during Clinton's time in office the U.S. dropped the most bombs in a single day in their history.

With the war in Yugoslavia/Kosovo.