Whenever I read anything by him, I can hear his irritating loud voice like when he's giving his 2 cents on ESPN.
ANNOYING to say the least, but the article was good.
Whenever I read anything by him, I can hear his irritating loud voice like when he's giving his 2 cents on ESPN.
ANNOYING to say the least, but the article was good.
Red Wings veteran Yzerman says season is lost; likely won't return in 2006
January 30, 2005
DETROIT (CP) - Steve Yzerman may have played his final National Hockey League game. The Detroit Red Wings veteran told the Detroit News on Sunday he's not optimistic the NHL lockout will end anytime soon, and that if the labour dispute extended into 2006, he likely wouldn't return.
"I've pretty much got my mind made up about what I'm going to do, but there's no need to say for sure yet," said Yzerman, 39. "If next season started on time and the Red Wings called about playing, it's something I'd definitely consider. But starting in January might be different."
With no talks scheduled, Yzerman acknowledged the season is likely lost.
"I don't see it happening," the Red Wings' captain said. "The philosophies haven't changed and there's no compromise in sight. I'd hoped at the last moment the owners would move off the salary cap, but they're not going to.
"I don't see a deal being done in the next week, and that's pretty much all the time that's left."
Yzerman sits sixth on the all-time scoring list with 1,721 points (678 goals, 1,043 assists). He had 18 goals and 33 assists in 75 games last season.
Hall of Fame.
Inside Dish: Semantics rules labor discussions
By Kara Yorio - SportingNews
With unconfirmed rumors that a soft-cap system is on the table, the labor dispute once again has become about semantics. The "soft cap," which would tax teams that exceed a payroll threshold, is a luxury tax system--the same type of system the NHL has sworn won't work and said it won't accept. If the league does make a soft-cap deal, it will be capitulating. But don't declare a players victory just yet. These things are like big trades--it takes years to analyze the outcome. After all, the last collective bargaining agreement was declared a huge victory for the owners, and the players obviously got the better of that one. . . .
With a negotiating strategy that leaves the league unwilling to declare a drop-dead date, fans are left hanging. Is the league willing to play a 28-game season? A 30-team Stanley Cup playoff tournament without any regular-season games? NHL vice president Bill Daly says the league isn't at a point where it knows how few games would constitute a viable season. Of course, it does know and must have multiple contingency plans. This obviously is not an area in which the league would be unprepared. . . .
Update from Europe: A possible season-ending wrist surgery took Modo C Peter Forsberg out of the running for the Swedish Elite League scoring title--and ruined a sentimental reunion with Canucks LW Markus Naslund, whose first Modo game was the one in which Forsberg was injured. Panthers LW Kristian Huselius led the league in scoring heading into last weekend. . . .
The AHL All-Star Game has turned into the NHL young-stars game. Twenty players on the 25-man Canadian roster played at least one game in the NHL last season, and more than a few were full-timers, including Bruins C Patrice Bergeron and Senators C Jason Spezza.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news?slu...=tsn&type=lgns
They need to get this shit resolved....
One week without football and I'm going nuts already....
Eat Us And Smile - The Originals
"I have a very belligerent enthusiasm or an enthusiastic belligerence. I’m an intellectual slut." - David Lee Roth
"We are part of the, not just the culture, but the geography. Van Halen music goes along with like fries with the burger." - David Lee Roth
ESPN.com news services
The NHL is expected to make a formal proposal to the players' association Tuesday, and it still includes a salary cap, according to media reports.
With the clock's ticking growing ever louder, the league sent a memo to teams outlining its latest ideas.
The proposal, much of which already has been disclosed informally to NHLPA leaders, would include a salary cap with a minimum of $32 million and a max of $42 million but likely would not include an individual cap of $6 million, according to a New York Daily News report.
The plan also is expected to require profit-sharing, with a 50-50 split of money over a figure to be determined, although speculation has put it at at least $100 million.
The league also wants to make salary arbitration a two-way street, giving teams as well as players the right to exercise that option.
Opinions differ as to whether a luxury tax -- a league no-go thus far -- could be on the table. The Daily News reports that the formal proposal won't include a luxury tax, but former Canucks president and general manager Brian Burke told the Toronto Star that the two sides "will discuss a luxury tax."
The lockout reached its 138th day Monday and already has forced the cancellation of 747 of the 1,230 regular-season games plus the 2005 All-Star Game. Time is running out to reach a deal and prevent the NHL from becoming the first major North American sports league to lose an entire season to a labor dispute.
Speculation is that a deal must be done this week -- or next week at the latest -- to salvage the current season.
Talk Classic Rock - The Official Message Board For Classic Rock -- Now on XenForo!
Domi takes a shot
Leaf pleads with sides to get a deal done now
By MIKE ZEISBERGER, TORONTO SUN
A candid Tie Domi has a blunt message for Gary Bettman and Bob Goodenow. "Get together now before it's too late!" the veteran Maple Leafs forward said yesterday, urging the NHL commissioner and the head of the players' association to finally step out of the shadows and up to the plate before the 2004-05 season is officially flushed away.
"Bob and Gary are our leaders and they owe it to the 730 players, the 30 owners, the countless number of fans and the hundreds of thousands of people who are affected by this, to give it one last shot. If the season is cancelled without one last shot or without their best efforts, there will be serious consequences for both parties and the sport."
Domi is worried about the future of hockey, especially given the indifference of many fans toward the lockout.
"When dog shows and poker are receiving higher ratings (than hockey had) on ESPN, there is legitimate reason to be concerned," he said.
"This has nothing to do with who's right and who's wrong. This is about the game. And for two guys to have control of this situation and not talk, it doesn't sit well.
"It's not like the clock is ticking any more. We're at midnight right now. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out this is a crucial time for all parties involved."
Unfortunately, Domi's plea might be falling on deaf ears.
In an e-mail message yesterday afternoon, NHL executive vice-president Bill Daly said he "anticipated that something will be scheduled for later this week." Yet later in the day, Daly seemed less optimistic, wondering why he had not heard from the union.
The answer is simple. The players were not impressed during a pair of meetings last week, claiming the owners continue to insist on cost certainty -- meaning a salary cap.
"Bill knows that the concepts they discussed with us on Thursday would not form the basis for an agreement, so he should not be surprised that he hasn't heard from us. We were very clear on Thursday that we would not be negotiating over his proposed concepts," Ted Saskin, NHLPA senior director, said in a statement.
Maybe not. But Domi was quick to point out that Bettman and Goodenow were not part of any recent face-to-face talks.
"We know there is a lot of bad blood right now, but we can't let egos get in the way of the game," said Domi, one of the more business-savvy Leafs. "We need to work together to help the game grow.
"The owners and players both want a successful NHL and that starts with a partnership. But before you can have that, you need trust and there isn't a lot of that right now. We need to fix that.
"One side wants a cap, one doesn't. It's up to (Bob and Gary) to be creative and find compromise."
Domi has seen little of that from the league.
The union, he noted, offered a 24% across-the-board rollback in salaries. The league, meanwhile, has conceded little.
"The bottom line is, the fans don't want to hear our issues. They don't want to hear who's right and who's wrong. They just want entertaining hockey back."
Diamond Mafia Forever - 4. To restore fullbug to the prominent place in this board, after various serious attacks by hitch1969 have now damaged his reputation and now is reguarded as a "Retarded, Stoned, Canadian, Dog finger bangin' fuckup"
Gee no kidding. It's only been "things have to be done this week to save the season" for a month nowOriginally posted by EVH FANATIC
Speculation is that a deal must be done this week -- or next week at the latest -- to salvage the current season.
NHL makes new offer to players' association
By IRA PODELL, AP Sports Writer
February 2, 2005
NEW YORK (AP) -- The NHL's latest salary-cap proposal to end the season-long lockout was rejected Wednesday by the players' union, which came back with its own idea: Bring commissioner Gary Bettman to the bargaining table.
Bettman accepted, and is set to rejoin the talks Thursday for the first time since Dec. 14. He'll meet with union head Bob Goodenow.
In turning down the league's offer, the union reiterated it won't accept a salary cap as a solution.
``The league presented a written proposal with minor variations of concepts that were presented orally by the NHL last Thursday,'' NHLPA senior director Ted Saskin said. ``We told the league last week and again today that their multilayered salary cap proposals were not the basis for an agreement.''
The sides met for four hours in Newark, N.J., the fifth time in two weeks they've talked.
The NHL proposed a six-year deal that contained a cap that would force teams to spend at least $32 million on player costs but no more than $42 million -- including benefits. Both figures would be adjusted each year to reflect changes in league revenues.
The lockout reached its 140th day Wednesday, and has forced the cancellation of 762 of the 1,230 regular-season games plus the All-Star game.
Bettman has promised the 30 NHL teams that he will get them cost certainty, a direct link between league revenues and players costs. This offer would give the players between 53 and 55 percent of league revenues.
If a deal is reached in time for hockey to be played this year, the NHL proposed that the players' association would still receive 53 percent of revenues generated from a full playoff schedule that would follow a shortened regular season.
Also included in the offer -- which could be reopened by the union after four years -- was a profit-sharing plan that would allow the players' association to evenly split revenues over a negotiated level with the league.
On Dec. 9, the players' association proposed a luxury-tax system with an immediate 24 percent rollback on all existing contracts. The NHL liked the idea of cutting down salaries but called that a short-term fix.
That portion of the union's offer, however, was accepted and included in the league's new proposal.
The NHL also proposed keeping guaranteed player contracts as they currently exist and implementing a jointly monitored accounting and audit system that would penalize teams with multimillion dollar fines and the loss of draft choices if they failed to disclose financial information.
The league agreed to keep arbitration, a change from its counterproposal to the union on Dec. 14, but the NHL wants to make it so teams can take players to arbitration instead of it being a one-way process.
The league also proposed offering a joint council between owners and players to discuss various business and game-related issues.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news;_yl...v=ap&type=lgns
I'm guessing when the big boys are there on Thursday, they'll formally say they're rejecting the offer, and then Bettman will inform them that the season is kaput.....
They are making somewhat of a stink in Detroit about Chelios, Hatcher, and Draper signing on to play for that minor league team, where they have a total team SALARY CAP of $260,000.
Oh the irony ...
NHL union rejects profit sharing
By Tim Panaccio, Inquirer Staff Writer
Not even the enticement of a 50-50 profit-sharing plan could persuade the National Hockey League Players' Association to accept the NHL's latest collective bargaining agreement proposal.
The union rejected the league's proposed six-year deal yesterday afternoon after a meeting in Newark, N.J., because it still contained a salary cap.
Both sides will meet again today in faint hopes of ending the 141-day lockout.
"They have not made much change from their position on Dec. 14," said Ted Saskin, the union's senior director and lead counsel. He said the latest proposal offered "minor variations" from what both sides discussed informally last week in New York.
There is agreement that a deal must be in place this week to have a 25-to-30-game season. Today's meeting will include NHL commissioner Gary Bettman and union executive director Bob Goodenow.
"We all know we are right down to the end here, and Bob and Gary have to be in the room to do the deal that needs to be done," said Bill Daly, the league's chief legal counsel. At the same time, Daly added, he had "no particular sense of optimism" given the union's rejection.
So why meet if the union won't accept any deal with a salary cap?
"Let's try to see what it is we want to achieve," Saskin said. "We believe there are many ways to reduce players costs, and it's not always through a salary-cap method. We're not wedded to luxury taxes."
Taking part in yesterday's face-to-face negotiations, the first since last week, were the fewest officials to date - four. They were trying to find common ground to bridge the "philosophical" gap that has prevented a new agreement.
The league's offer encompasses what would be left of this season plus six full seasons (through 2010-11), with a reopener clause for the union after 2008-09.
The offer included variations of what the league proposed in December regarding free agency, revenue sharing and salary arbitration, and a twist on the hard salary cap becoming a "floating" cap. For the first time, however, the league offered a profit-sharing plan, which Saskin described as "fairly vague."
Daly did not provide money figures or say when profit sharing would kick in, nor did he explain how the league would share revenue among its clubs. Saskin labeled the revenue-sharing idea "fairly mysterious."
The proposal would require each of the 30 clubs to spend $32 million, with a hard cap set at $42 million. Payroll ranges would be adjusted annually to reflect league revenues. The league said that it would accept the union's offer of a 24 percent across-the-board rollback on all existing contracts and that it would "consider" inclusion of a payroll (luxury) tax "within" the confines of the $42 million hard cap via a tier system.
Given that half the clubs last year had payrolls of more than $50 million, the league's tax would seem meaningless within the NHL's "floating" payroll range. If the league wanted a true luxury tax, it would institute a tax above the hard cap - not within it. The league's offer linked player costs and revenues, with no less than 53 percent and no more than 55 percent going to the players.
Also included in the proposal:
Two-way salary arbitration in which both sides could take the player/team to arbitration, with mutual "walk-away" rights in which players would become free agents.
Qualifying offers to restricted free agents set at 75 percent for players earning $800,000 or more; 100 percent if less than $800,000.
Free agency reduced to age 30 from 31, effective in the 2006-07 season.
The entry-level system increased to a four-year-contract from three years, with the rookie maximum set at $850,000 (salary and bonus). The minimum salary would increase to $300,000 from $186,000.
Profit sharing on a 50-50 basis if league revenues reached a negotiated threshold.
To assure that clubs weren't hiding money on profit and revenue sharing, an independent accounting firm would be jointly selected by the league and union. Any club found to be hiding money would face fines of $2 million to $5 million and the loss of as many as three first-round draft picks.
Yesterday's session included Daly and his outside counsel, Bob Batterman. Representing the union were Saskin and outside counsel John McCambridge.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news?slu...ight&type=lgns
Yea I miss it especially come play off time,and truth be told I'll start going back to watch games.... in person not on T.V
Report: NHL set to cancel season
February 3, 2005
NEW YORK (Ticker) - With little hope of a settlement, it appears the NHL is ready to pull the plug on the 2004-05 season.
ESPNews is reporting that an unidentified team owner has said the league will announce a cancellation of the season either Thursday or Friday. The owner reportedly indicated the announcement could come following Thursday's negotiating session.
If the season in cancelled, the NHL will become the the first North American sports league ever has lost an entire season due to a labor dispute. A Stanley Cup champion has been crowned every year since 1893 with the exception of 1919, when the Finals were canceled after five games due to a flu epidemic.
One day after the NHLPA rejected the NHL's latest proposal, the two sides are meeting again Thursday at an undisclosed venue in New York.
Unlike the previous five meetings, however, Thursday's session includes commissioner Gary Bettman and union executive director Bob Goodenow.
But with the lockout in its 141st day and over 60 percent of the schedule already postponed, the possibility of salvaging a portion of the 2004-05 season appeared extremely dim. The 1994-95 lockout was settled on January 11, 1995, and a 48-game season began later that month.
On Wednesday, the league revealed a new proposal featuring an equal profit-sharing plan and a salary cap, which it referred to as a "floating team payroll range."
The payroll plan called for a salary floor of $32 million and a cap of $42 million per team. This range would be adjusted each season to reflect changes in league revenues.
Other points of the league's proposal included a mutual arbitration process, a reduction of age for Group 3 free agency and the increase in the minimum players' salary. The NHL also incorporated the union's most recent offer of a 24 percent rollback in salaries in its plan.
The union, which has maintained it never would agree to any deal that includes a salary cap, flatly turned it down.
A closer look at the NHL's latest proposal
PIERRE LEBRUN
February 3, 2005
(CP) - A closer look at the NHL's latest proposal, which was rejected by the NHLPA:
Term: Six full seasons after this shortened year, including the 2010-11 season. The union would have the unilateral right to re-open the deal after the fourth full season, 2008-09.
The skinny: On the surface, the four-year re-opener is a gift to the union but the reality is that once you sign on to a salary cap system, it's very difficult to back out of it.
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Entry-Level System: Four years, mandatory two-way contracts. Maximum compensation of $850,000 US includes salary, bonuses for games played and signing bonus.
Players can earn $250,000 more a season in individual 'A' bonuses, categories such as ice time, goals, assists, points, plus/minus and an all-star game appearance; goalies' bonuses would work on minutes played, GAA, save percentage, wins, shutouts and the all-star game.
A few select entry-level players can earn over and above if they reach the 'B' bonuses, which few ever do. That would include $500,000 for winning a major award such as the Hart, Norris, Vezina or Selke, or between $100,000 to $400,000 for being anywhere from fifth to second in voting for those awards.
The skinny: It's a step in the players' direction after taking away all bonuses in the league's Dec. 14 offer. Bottom line, given that very few entry-level players would ever reach the elite 'B' bonuses, the maximum compensation here is $1.1 million a year ($850,000 plus $250,000).
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Restricted Free Agency: Qualifying offers (which are needed to retain rights) for players earning less than $800,000 (average salary last season was $1.8 million) would be 100 per cent of his salary from the season before. But the required qualifying offers for players earning over $800,000 would be 75 per cent of his salary from the season before.
Same right to match/draft choice compensation rules as under the expired CBA, in terms of other teams trying to sign restricted free agents to offer sheets.
But a new wrinkle: restricted free agents and their respective clubs have to agree to terms on a new deal by no later than 14 days after the opening of training camp. Failure to do so "results in player ineligibility (and unavailability to the club) for the balance of the season."
The skinny: The 75 per cent qualifying offers would be a huge victory for the league, clubs finally able to backtrack underachieving players without losing their rights. The 14-day signing deadline is a smart move, putting pressure on both the team and player to make a deal on time. Which likely means no more prolonged contract disputes. Too bad they didn't have that rule for the NHL and NHLPA in negotiating a new CBA.
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Salary Arbitration: Entirely mutual, players and clubs have identical rights to request arbitration. Under the old agreement, only players could elect. All restricted free agents are eligible for arbitration, another new wrinkle. Under the old deal, only certain players who fit a certain criteria would elect.
Players and clubs can defer being dragged to arbitration in two ways: the player can defer the team's attempt at arbitration by signing his qualifying offer; the club can defer a player's attempt at arbitration by one year by signing him at 105 per cent of his prior year's salary. The entire deferral process would not apply to a player coming out of the entry-level system.
Walkaway rights: clubs can walk away from an arbitration award in return for which players become free agents subject, however, to right to match from his old club for any offer that's 90 per cent or less than the value of the award. Players can walk away from a bad award and instead accept a contract for 90 per cent of their qualifying offer.
And finally the big catch in all of this: The league reserves the option "to eliminate salary arbitration mechanism in its entirety at any time during the term of the agreement" by dropping the age of unrestricted free agency to 28 (more on that later).
The skinny: It's a step up from Dec. 14, when the league completely obliterated the entire system. On the other hand, the fact the league could scrap it entirely when it wants is hard to take. Another tough pill to swallow here for the players would be the team's right to defer arbitration by simply signing him to a five per cent raise. That would mean, for example, that Hart Trophy winner Martin St. Louis , who earned $1.5 million last season and who should have cashed in big in arbitration, could be re-signed by Tampa at $1.575 million. That's crazy.
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Unrestricted free agency: Age eligibility would drop from 31 under the old deal to 30 in the new agreement. But it would drop to 28 if the league decides to scrap the salary arbitration system.
The skinny: A giveback to the players, obviously, and a major one if it drops to 28. On the other hand, some GMs believe the bigger the UFA market, the less crazy the spending is on the available players.
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Player contracts: Minimum salary increased 62 per cent to $300,000 a year and maximum term of contracts to be no longer than three years.
Oh, and this: "The parties may have a mutual interest in negotiating over the establishment of an NHL maximum salary for individual players. No specific amount is being proposed in this regard," says the league.
The word on the street is that the league would like no player to make more than $6 million a season. Jaromir Jagr is slated to earn $11 million next year.
The skinny: On the surface, the players have been thrown a bone by simply having guaranteed contracts still in place. But the three-year maximum on contracts is a huge blow, giving players little security. And the individual salary cap to be negotiated is a total non-starter for the union.
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Linkage/salary cap: This is the meat of the offer, the league's most important component and the one that the union absolutely abhors.
League-wide player compensation in any year of the agreement can't exceed 55 per cent of the league revenues (it was 75 per cent last season); that's up from 54 per cent in the league's Dec. 14 offer. Also, player compensation can't be below 53 per cent of league revenues.
Under this scenario last season, 55 per cent of the league's $2.1 billion in total revenues would have limited teams to spend no more than $38 million apiece on player compensation. Laymen terms? That's a $38-million salary cap.
The league also calls for 15 per cent of each team's player payroll to be automatically escrowed every season to ensure compliance with the 55 per cent rule. In other words, the escrow is solely for the purpose of squaring up at the end of the year. If owners pay too much, they get paid back from the escrow. If everything balances out between the 53-55 per cent range, than the escrow money is simply released back to the players. If the owners ended up paying less than 53 per cent of their revenues to players, than the players get the escrow back PLUS get a cheque for the balance.
The skinny: This is why there won't be hockey this year. The players would rather retire en masse than link their future salaries to the league's revenues. What if the damage of the lockout drops league revenues to $1.5 billion for the next full season? The players would get 55 per cent of that loot, $825 million. Translation? Team salary caps of $27.5 million. Now you see why the players have no interest in this system. The owners, on the other hand, feel they need this to ensure they won't continue to pile up operating losses.
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Floating team payroll range: The new range would be set by averaging total team payrolls, reflecting the NHL's acceptance of the union's offer to roll back all existing contracts by 24 per cent. The average range would be set by knocking off the top five spending clubs from last season and also ignoring the bottom five, in order to find a more representative range of the league as a whole.
The result for this season (based on last season's $2.1 billion in revenues) would see each team required to spend at least $29.8 million in player salaries ($32 million including benefits) and no more than $40 million in salaries ($42.2 million including benefits).
The skinny: Regardless of this payroll range, the league-wide link between player compensation and revenues would override this component. It's all about the 55 per cent ratio, that's the real salary cap.
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Payroll tax: The NHL is willing to implement a payroll tax somewhere in the floating payroll range but admits it will only go ahead with this at the union's discretion. Yes, the union prefers a tax over a cap, but it doesn't want both!
The skinny: Forget this, if the union ever swallows a linkage/cap system, the last think it will want is to add yet another salary drag on top of it.
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Profit sharing: A profit-sharing plan to which the players would share in "league profitability over a negotiated level on a 50-50 basis." The players and owners would share the profits 50-50 over and above a negotiated profit threshold.
The skinny: Without a figure to attach the threshold to, it's tough to know whether this is for real. Still, it would be the first of its kind in the major professional sports leagues in North America.
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Joint audit: The implementation of a jointly monitored accounting and audit function, with stiff penalties to teams who try to cheat on their financial reports. Teams fined $2 million and lose their first-round pick for first offence and get nailed with $5-million fine and loss of three first-round draft picks for second offence.
The skinny: A major part of this deal if the union ever accepts linkage. But given the inability of both sides to agree on numbers since eternity, one has to wonder how they could ever agree on what is a neutral, third-party accounting firm. Still, a smart component put in by the league.
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Owner-Player Council: The establishment of a joint owner-player council to discuss various business and game-related issues. The union wanted this in its Dec. 9 offer. On the surface, this should give the players the voice it's always wanted in helping Colin Campbell, the league's director of hockey operations, re-shape the game and make it better.
The skinny: Somewhere Brendan Shanahan must have been smiling when he saw this. The Detroit Red Wings star held a hockey summit in December that called for players to get a bigger voice in the on-ice issues of the game. An important gesture by the league.
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2005 playoff plan: Plans for a shortened regular season this year with a full playoff, but splitting some revenues from the post-season to "ensure that the players receive the agreed-upon 53 per cent of league revenues."
The skinny: Given that players have already lost eight of 13 paycheques and only get paid during he regular season, a chunk of the action in this spring's playoffs is a must for them to agree to come back at this point.
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Salary rollback: The union's offer of 24 per cent across-the-board salary rollback for all remaining years of all existing contracts is accepted by the league.
The skinny: This is the original NHLPA rollback, not the league's restructured rollback of Dec. 14.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news?slu...v=cp&type=lgns
NHL, Union End Talks With No Progress Made
Fri Feb 4, 8:08 PM
NEW YORK - No progress doesn't mean no hockey - at least not yet. NHL labor talks ended Friday after a four-hour meeting, without a resolution or a historic announcement that the season has been lost.
"We met the last couple of days, tried to cover some issues and maybe a few new issues to see if there was a possibility of some common ground and some traction, but that isn't the case," players' association executive director Bob Goodenow said before returning to Toronto. "The parties agreed to stay in touch, but there's really no progress to report of any type. That's the reality."
Representatives met for the third straight day, but weren't able to get over the major stumbling block: a salary cap. The NHL has insisted on a link between league revenues and player costs, and the players' association has steadfastly refused that as a solution to end the season-long lockout.
Goodenow and NHL commissioner Gary Bettman rejoined the discussions Thursday, and were at the table for Friday's session.
The NHL had indicated that progress was essential at these talks if there was to be hockey this season.
"We had extensive and constructive talks over the past two days," NHL chief legal officer Bill Daly said in a statement. "While there are no future meetings scheduled, we have agreed to keep the lines of communication open."
The 4 1/2-month lockout reached its 142nd day Friday and has wiped out 775 regular-season games and the All-Star game. The remainder of the 1,230-game schedule could be called off within days.
"Despite several media reports to the contrary, we have no intention of making any further announcement relating to collective bargaining or the status of the season at this time," Daly said.
On Wednesday, the players' association quickly rejected the league's proposal because it included a salary cap. That session was the fifth in a two-week span that Bettman and Goodenow didn't attend. But right after that meeting, the union invited the league back to the table and wanted the leaders there.
"I think we have to rely on the two people that are in the room with the others," said New Jersey Devils president Lou Lamoriello, who took part in earlier negotiations. "You can't go any higher than Bob Goodenow and commissioner Gary Bettman. It's in their hands and we have to respect that, and I believe that's where it should be.
"We have to have some patience."
Bettman and Goodenow were needed in the room before any deal could possibly be reached. No major league in North America has lost an entire season to a labor dispute.
"They're trying to do everything humanly possible to try to get the game back on the ice," Lamoriello said. "If there is reason to believe that there is hope and a chance, then I think you use that time."
NHLPA senior director Ted Saskin and John McCambridge also took part in the negotiations on the union side, while Daly and attorney Bob Batterman represented the league. Those four were the only participants in Wednesday's session.
The NHL proposed a six-year deal Wednesday that contained a cap that would force teams to spend at least $32 million on player costs, but no more than $42 million, including benefits. The union needed only a few hours to turn it down.
There were other components to the offer, such as a profit-sharing plan, reduced age for unrestricted free agency, a raise of the minimum salary, and the continued conclusion of guaranteed contracts, but the issue has always been about a salary cap.
"I never want to get discouraged or have any type of that attitude," Lamoriello said. "I think that we have to respect the people that are in that room, allow them to do what they're doing and just support the results that come out."
Bettman has said that teams lost a total of more than $1.8 billion over 10 years, and management will not agree to a deal without a defined relationship between revenue and salaries.
Last season's average salary was $1.8 million, and the NHL wants to push that back with a salary cap. The latest offer would give players between 53 and 55 percent of league revenues.
An economic study commissioned by the NHL found that players got 75 percent of revenues, but the union has challenged many of the league's findings.
The NHL has been operating under the same collective bargaining agreement since 1995, when the last lockout went 103 days before a 48-game season was played.
The Stanley Cup has been awarded every year since 1919, when a flu epidemic wiped out the final series between Montreal and Seattle.
No progress made in NHL talks; hockey season still hangs in balance
By IRA PODELL, AP Sports Writer
February 5, 2005
NEW YORK (AP) -- Even if the negotiating has stopped yet again, the clock on the hockey season keeps ticking.
After 13 hours of talks between representatives of the NHL and the players' association over two days, the sides broke off discussions Friday with no plans to meet again.
Though popular opinion held that this was the last chance to save the season, apparently there's still time to make a deal.
But only if the NHL can live without a salary cap, or the players' association agrees to accept one. Neither side has shown any willingness to change its position.
``We had extensive and constructive talks over the past two days,'' NHL chief legal officer Bill Daly said. ``While there are no future meetings scheduled, we have agreed to keep the lines of communication open.''
The talking stopped Friday afternoon after a four-hour meeting.
``We met the last couple of days, tried to cover some issues and maybe a few new issues to see if there was a possibility of some common ground and some traction, but that isn't the case,'' players' association executive director Bob Goodenow said before returning to Toronto. ``The parties agreed to stay in touch, but there's really no progress to report of any type. That's the reality.''
Representatives met for the third straight day, but weren't able to get over the major stumbling block: a salary cap. The NHL has insisted on a link between league revenues and player costs, and the players' association has steadfastly refused that as a solution.
Goodenow and NHL commissioner Gary Bettman rejoined the discussions Thursday, and were at the table for Friday's session.
The 4 1/2 -month lockout reached its 142nd day Friday and has wiped out 775 regular-season games and the All-Star game. The remainder of the 1,230-game schedule could be called off within days.
``Despite several media reports to the contrary, we have no intention of making any further announcement relating to collective bargaining or the status of the season at this time,'' Daly said.
On Wednesday, the players' association quickly rejected the league's latest proposal because it included a salary cap. That session was the fifth in a two-week span that Bettman and Goodenow didn't attend. But right after that meeting, the union invited the league back to the table and wanted the leaders there.
``I think we have to rely on the two people that are in the room with the others,'' said New Jersey Devils president Lou Lamoriello, who took part in earlier negotiations. ``You can't go any higher than Bob Goodenow and commissioner Gary Bettman. It's in their hands and we have to respect that, and I believe that's where it should be.
``We have to have some patience.''
No major league in North America has lost an entire season to a labor dispute.
``They're trying to do everything humanly possible to try to get the game back on the ice,'' Lamoriello said. ``If there is reason to believe that there is hope and a chance, then I think you use that time.''
NHLPA senior director Ted Saskin and outside counsel John McCambridge also took part in the negotiations on the union side, while Daly and attorney Bob Batterman represented the league. Those four were the only participants in Wednesday's session.
The NHL proposed a six-year deal Wednesday that contained a cap that would force teams to spend at least $32 million on player costs, but no more than $42 million, including benefits. The union needed only a few hours to turn it down.
``Right now, it isn't a good enough offer to place a vote on,'' Red Wings defenseman Nicklas Lidstrom said. ``I trust our committee, the players involved and the guys that are negotiating for us.''
There were other components to the offer, such as a profit-sharing plan, reduced age for unrestricted free agency and a raise in the minimum salary, but the sticking point remains the salary cap.
``I never want to get discouraged or have any type of that attitude,'' Lamoriello said. ``I think that we have to respect the people that are in that room, allow them to do what they're doing and just support the results that come out.''
Bettman has said that teams lost a total of more than $1.8 billion over 10 years, and management will not agree to a deal without a defined relationship between revenue and salaries.
Last season's average salary was $1.8 million, and the NHL wants to push that back with a salary cap. The latest offer would give players between 53 percent and 55 percent of league revenues.
An economic study commissioned by the NHL found that players got 75 percent of revenues, but the union has challenged many of the league's findings.
The NHL has been operating under the same collective bargaining agreement since 1995, when the last lockout went 103 days before a 48-game season began in January.
The Stanley Cup has been awarded every year since 1919, when a flu epidemic wiped out the final series between Montreal and Seattle.
Updated on Saturday, Feb 5, 2005 1:39 am EST
I read today that the NHL will call the season if no agreement is reached by the middle of February (14th or 15th).
The season is done.
How the hell can they have a season at this point?
The playoffs usually start around April 15.....they need to have some kind of training camp. So what does that leave? A month and a bit?
It's over....the fat lady is singing.
The rumour floating around up here, is that the NHL is avoiding calling the season because it makes it harder for them to declare an impasse.
Report: NHL to make offer and set deadline
Rocky Mountain News
The NHL is going to make another proposal and issue a drop-dead date to the players' association in an attempt to break the nearly five-month lockout, the Los Angeles Times reported on its Web site Tuesday night.
Sources, who were not identified, told the Times an agreement needs to be in place by Monday or Tuesday to start a 28-, 30- or 32-game season by Feb. 25.
The proposal and drop-dead date are expected to be presented today or Thursday, the Times reported.
The sides have been at odds since the collective-bargaining agreement expired Sept. 15 and commissioner Gary Bettman imposed a lockout, which reached its 146th day Tuesday.
The owners want a salary cap to bridge the gap between revenues and expenses; the union has said it will not accept a cap.
NHL all-time scoring leader Wayne Gretzky, who is managing partner of the Phoenix Coyotes, told the Times he wants a cap.
"At this point in time for the better of the 30 teams it would be great for hockey," he said at a fantasy camp at El Segundo, Calif. "But whatever is decided, Phoenix is ready to go and ready to play. . . . Financially, the Coyotes lose less money not playing, but we lose a lot of credibility in the community with fan support, corporate sponsorship, just community fan base. How long it's going to take us to rebuild that, I'm not sure."
But Brett Hull, who signed with the Coyotes in the summer and was at the fantasy camp, told the Times it's too late.
"They should just start getting ready for next year," he said.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news?slu...ight&type=lgns
A 30 game season sounds perfect to me. But I doubt it will happen.
I like that idea better than the round robin tourney where all the teams get in.
Would be different, but not for the Cup, wouldn't be right.
The deadline is set.
No agreement by this weekend and plug is pulled.
Here's my opinion on hockey, and take this from someone who doesn't like the sport:
They need another Wayne Gretzky-type superstar.
If they want to join the other three professional sports in terms of popularity and interest, they need a Wayne Gretzky. They need what Jordan (and now LeBron James) is to the NBA. They need what Mark McGwire was to baseball in 1998 and what Barry Bonds is now. They need a spectacular player that people will watch.
You the hardcore hockey fan will say, "Not true, it's just great as it is." Trust me, IT'S NOT to the casual fan. It's a boring as fuck game with no scoring and no one attracting interest. Someone like me would not say, "Oooh Ilya Kovalchuk is in town, I gotta see him. Oooh I wanna see Martin St. Louis." Those guys are talented players, but hockey desperately needs someone bigger than the game. Until they get someone who completely dominates the game like Wayne Gretzky or Michael Jordan, someone who crosses boundaries, people like me ain't gonna care and the sport's just gonna wither away. They need someone with personality, someone who really sticks out, someone who is an ambassador for the game and promotes the game.
It wouldn't hurt, thats for sure.
They thought Eric Lindross was that guy...
...He wasn't.
Yo Yo Yo
Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemieux were those guys. Ever since them, there's been no one. There's talent, but there's no one promoting the game. To be perfectly honest, a quiet French-Canadian or an Eastern European who can't speak English is not going to get it done.
I agree.
This kid that was suppose to be the overwhelming number one pick in this year's NHL draft, Sidney Crosby, is suppose to be the next great player.
They'd better hope someone is.
I love the game because of it's long history and like it pretty much however it's played, as long as it's played and not cancelled because of dumb shit like this.
Guess what, whenever they come back from the lockout that's what they're gonna need. You'll be loving it still, but the rest of the country won't.
If you want the NHL to be cared about and to survive, then hope and pray that Sidney Crosby is a Gretzky-type talent who will embrace marketing the game.
We're in a little better shape here because of the success of the Wings. Their top minor league affiliate is here and are huge here locally, and it's the 2nd largest city in the state behind Detroit.
But they will need another star no question, and a lot more to get the fans back to the arenas. Baseball suffered, and this can only be worse.
Well regionalization, and inaccessibility is another problem. The sport is ridiculously regionalized which is why TV ratings are so low. And unlike the other three sports, you can't just go and play it whenever you feel like. Football, all you need is a ball for a touch football game with friends. Basketball, all you need is a ball and a playground that has hoops, and there are plenty of those in the US. Baseball you need a little more but still not a ridiculous amount. One bat, one ball, and a glove for everyone. Hockey...whew.
They're gonna have to do something about breaking into the southern and western US and making it more accessible to everyone. It's a sport that really, really stings of isolation.
NHL lockout talks are over; season appears next
By IRA PODELL, AP Sports Writer
February 11, 2005
AP - Feb 10, 7:23 pm EST
NEW YORK (AP) -- The only thing the NHL and the players' association are close to is stamping out a season that never started.
No talks, no deals, and with the clock ticking on a weekend deadline, virtually no chance of playing hockey.
That was the word from both sides after yet another failed negotiating session Thursday in Toronto.
``I can tell you unequivocally and without a doubt that we are done,'' NHL chief legal officer Bill Daly told The Associated Press on Thursday night.
``Without a change in position by the union, the season will be canceled,'' Daly said. ``There will be no further contact with the union before the season is canceled unless they reach out to us.''
Don't count on that happening.
``We're not going to pick up the phone this weekend,'' union senior director Ted Saskin said after the four-hour meeting. ``We're done.''
And so ended what was likely the last chance to keep the NHL from becoming the first major league in North America to cancel an entire season because of a labor dispute. An official announcement could come within days.
Nearly five months after the lockout started, the league and the players are still on opposite sides of the salary-cap argument. The owners insist on a link between revenues and player costs, and the union vows never to accept it.
``Their outright rejection of our proposal yesterday I think speaks more to the fact that the union is never, ever, ever, ever -- under any circumstances -- prepared to play under any kind of cost-certain, economic partnership, salary cap -- you pick the term -- type of system,'' Daly said.
``As long as that continues to be their position, it's going to continue to be difficult for us to resolve this.''
But the players' association doesn't understand why the NHL will only consider one option to fix the league's financial woes.
``I think it's been very clear from Day 1 that this has never been about having a negotiation,'' Saskin said. ``They have made it clear they have only one way of doing things and that's through their hard-cap system.
``There are clearly other ways to reduce player costs but they have not been prepared to look at any other way. The writing has been on the wall for some time.''
And now time is a major factor.
More PhotosDaly and commissioner Gary Bettman went to Toronto on Wednesday to give the players' association two things: a final offer and a deadline to make a deal.
Bettman said an agreement had to be ready to be put into writing by the weekend in order for there to be a season. The one he had in mind was already cut down from 80 to 28 games but would retain a standard, 16-team playoff structure.
But the offer that came with it never stood a chance.
The NHL suggested a new deal be made using the players' association's proposal from Dec. 9 that included a luxury-tax system and a 24 percent salary rollback on existing contracts.
But if any of four financial conditions were exceeded, then the NHL's salary-cap offer from last week would go into effect the following season. Teams would then be forced to spend at least $32 million on player costs but no more than $42 million, including benefits.
Players' association executive director Bob Goodenow said that at least one of the triggers would immediately be exceeded if this deal was put in place, and others could be easily reached.
Saskin called the proposal a public relations ``gimmick'' and the idea wasn't revisited Thursday.
Now it appears both sides will have to deal with the unknown repercussions that come with canceling a season in a league that is already low on the popularity scale in the United States.
``We're all suffering from the damage done,'' Saskin said. ``But the players have been resolute in waiting to get the right deal, the right deal for the sport and one that's fair for both to operate under. And that's not what the league has been prepared to do.''
As to be expected, the league felt the same about the players' association.
``Quite frankly, I don't know why they asked us to stay overnight,'' Daly said. ``I don't know what their agenda was. I just know there was no progress.''
If the deadline was set to pressure the players' association to give in to the salary-cap demand, it hasn't worked so far.
``We were not deadline hunting in any way,'' Saskin said.
During the meeting at the league's office in Canada, the sides spent 2 1/2 hours huddling separately. When it was over, Daly and Bettman immediately returned to New York.
The lockout has wiped out 824 of the 1,230 regular-season games through this weekend's scheduled All-Star game. If the season is canceled, there is no telling when there will be NHL hockey again.
``I have no idea as I sit here today,'' Saskin said.
The sides have been assisted by mediators -- as recently as last week in Newark, N.J. -- but neither felt that was how a deal would be worked out.
``This isn't a negotiation that failed due to a lack of understanding,'' Daly said. ``This is a negotiation that has failed for other reasons. I don't think a mediator would help.''
The NHL also put some more specific numbers to their revenue-sharing proposal, and Saskin said it was in the $80 million range of a $2 billion pie.
Saskin said those numbers showed that teams are not willing to enter into partnerships with each other let alone with the players' association.
Rob Gillies, a stringer for The Associated Press, contributed to this report from Toronto.
Updated on Friday, Feb 11, 2005 3:21 am EST
http://philadelphia.comcastsportsnet...0p.asp?ID=4186
Analysts: Shortened NHL Season a Bad Idea
PITTSBURGH (AP) -- The NHL would further alienate its diminishing fan base by trying to salvage a season that's ruined beyond repair, and is better off canceling the season as it tries to solve its labor mess, according to some well-known sports economists.
Negotiations between the league and its locked-out players union ended Thursday with no progress reported, creating speculation NHL commissioner Gary Bettman will cancel the 2004-05 season as early as Monday. Bettman said a labor deal was needed by this weekend so each team could play a 28-game schedule -- about one-third as long as normal -- before the playoffs.
The league will find it difficult enough to win back fans that have seemed disinterested at best during the five-month lockout, the economists said, so asking them to support a shortened season played mostly in the springtime with watered-down rosters would be a huge mistake.
Some NHL players already have committed to playing full seasons with European teams and thus won't play in North America even if there is a season.
"They (NHL franchises) are going to be hurting when they come back -- they were hurting before the lockout, with a fan base that is thinning out,'' said Andrew Zimbalist, an economics professor at Smith College who studies economic trends in American sports. "They're alienating a large part of the small fan base they already have.
Neither side has budged from the positions they've long held, with team owners insisting they must have "cost certainty'' -- a cap on player salaries -- and players strongly opposing it.
"They're playing with fire, which isn't a good idea for a sport that skates on ice,'' Zimbalist said.
Even if the NHL emerges from what would be the first full-season shutdown of a major North American pro sports league with a more favorable owner-friendly labor agreement, the analysts warn hockey will need years to repair the damage.
Franchise values, already the lowest of the four major pro team sports, will be appreciably diminished, they warn, and revenues likely will be lower because ticket prices may have to be lowered to win fans back. Last fall, Forbes Magazine valued six franchises -- the Anaheim Mighty Ducks, Atlanta Thrashers, Edmonton Oilers, Buffalo Sabres, Pittsburgh Penguins and Carolina Hurricanes -- at barely one-tenth as much as the NFL's Washington Redskins, which are worth an estimated $1.1 billion.
"When you have labor strife like this, certainly that impacts value,'' said Jackie Dal Santo, a Chicago-based executive who evaluates franchises for Willamette Management Associates. "It's difficult to say it's a certain percentage, but it does have an overall impact on the whole league. A lot of NHL teams already filed for or were close to filing for bankruptcy.''
The Pittsburgh Penguins, Buffalo Sabres and Ottawa Senators have declared bankruptcy since 1999, although all were later acquired by new owners who kept the clubs operating.
Roger Noll, an economics professor at Stanford University who studies sports business issues, questions if some small-market and Sun Belt franchises will survive longterm. Within 10 years, he envisions a North American super league stripped of perhaps a dozen current franchises, which would fold or become minor-league clubs.
"The notion that the NHL can solve its problems with a salary cap is ludicrous,'' Noll said. "It will increase profits for the best teams, but it doesn't make the small-market teams viable. The disparity of revenues across the league is greater than in any other sport, and there's no salary solution to that problem. Some teams have 25 times (the local TV revenue) of other teams. The only solution is to get rid of the small-market teams or subsidize them.
"Even if salaries were zero dollars per year, I question if some small-market teams would have enough revenue to cover costs. Blowing up the league is the likely outcome because the big-market teams don't see revenue sharing as being in their best interest,'' Noll said.
Noll said the NHL's business model doesn't work because it was designed in the mid-1990s around increasing national TV rights and licensing fees. Instead, the league's latest network TV deal with NBC guarantees no money.
"They're basically giving away their games,'' Noll said. "The NHL hasn't built a sufficient market outside of the northeast quadrant of the United States and southeast Canada. They're stuck with expansion franchises that aren't viable and there is no solution to it. It's just crazy. You can't operate a league the way they're currently operating.''
Neal Pilson, the former CBS Sports president who now runs a consulting firm, disagrees with Noll that the league must contract to survive but warns it will take time and considerable effort to win back fans.
"Eventually the league will play hockey again, and the spectators and the viewers will come back,'' Pilson said. "It (attendance) might not be as strong as before, and there will be a dropoff in viewership -- it took baseball 5-6 years to get back the levels it had before the 1994-95 strike. To the NHL, whatever damage they're sustaining now is less than the longterm damage done if they don't restructure their labor agreement.''
Pilson thinks NHL players are making "one of the most dramatic miscalculations in labor management history'' by refusing to consider a cap.
"The sad thing is the players don't seem to understand that if the season is canceled, their deal is going to be diminished. They're not going to get a better deal a year from now,'' Pilson said. "The league is going to be in a weaker position, so it's a huge miscalculation on their part that they can increase their bargaining position by refusing any discussion on a hard salary cap.''
No progress made in meeting between NHL, players' association and federal mediators
By IRA PODELL, AP Sports Writer
February 14, 2005
AP - Feb 11, 2:46 pm EST
More PhotosNEW YORK (AP) -- A federal mediator tried to help the NHL and the players' association reach a deal just hours before a deadline to save the season.
That didn't work, either.
No progress was reported by the sides Sunday after a five-hour meeting in Washington that occurred as time ticked down on the NHL's weekend deadline.
After vowing not to reach out to the other after talks broke off Thursday, the sides met at the request of a high-ranking federal mediator. Neither commissioner Gary Bettman nor players' association executive director Bob Goodenow attended.
It wasn't clear if this meeting would extend the commissioner's deadline. Bettman said a new collective bargaining agreement had to be in place by Sunday for there to be a shortened season.
If Bettman's mind is made up, then a decision would likely be made Monday. An announcement that the season is canceled would be expected soon after.
NHL chief legal officer Bill Daly was joined at the meeting by outside counsel Bob Batterman, with players' association senior director Ted Saskin and outside counsel John McCambridge on the other side.
``There was no progress to report as a result of this meeting, and in fairness to the process it would serve no purpose to comment further,'' Saskin said in a statement.
The sides were assisted by mediators twice before -- as recently as a Feb. 2 negotiating session in Newark, N.J. Sunday's meeting was requested by Scot B. Beckenbaugh, the acting director of the U.S. Federal Mediation & Conciliation Service.
``No progress in the collective bargaining process resulted from the meeting,'' Daly said.
That wasn't the biggest surprise. Neither side thought mediation would help end the stalemate that has lasted five months.
``This isn't a negotiation that failed due to a lack of understanding,'' Daly said Thursday. ``This is a negotiation that has failed for other reasons. I don't think a mediator would help in this process.''
After two days of talks broke off Thursday in Toronto, Saskin also didn't see mediation as the way to reach a settlement.
``That's not something we've given a lot of consideration to, and certainly the NHL has made clear from Day 1 that they're not interested in any form of mediation -- binding or nonbinding,'' he said. ``If the NHL came forward and said they wanted to do binding mediation, then we'd have to do the analysis and have the discussion.''
Earlier Sunday, neither side seemed willing to budge or come together again to work on a deal.
``Our position hasn't changed,'' a players' association spokesman said.
``We will not be reaching out to them,'' Daly said.
The lockout reached its 151st day Sunday, when the league was supposed to hold its All-Star game in Atlanta. So far, 824 of the 1,230 regular-season games have been lost and the remainder of the schedule seems close to being wiped out.
Bettman said the sides needed to start putting a deal on paper by Sunday if the NHL was going to hold a 28-game season and a regular 16-team playoff.
The NHL said its 30 clubs need to know what their costs would be, and the only way that could be achieved is with a salary cap that linked league revenues to player costs.
A cap was an automatic deal-breaker for the union even though it agreed that the financial landscape had to change. The players' association contended that there are many other ways to fix it.
The sides have traded proposals throughout the lockout that started on Sept. 16. But the owners haven't come off their salary-cap demands, and the players haven't relented on their declaration that they won't accept that solution.
Other issues such as arbitration, revenue-sharing, and rookie caps, haven't gotten to the true negotiating stage because the sides couldn't tackle the big issue that seems likely to doom the season.
On Friday, the NHL sent a memo to its 30 clubs, allowing them to contact players -- something that was previously forbidden. The memo also allowed team executives to speak publicly about the lockout without being subject to significant fines.
Updated on Monday, Feb 14, 2005 4:28 am EST
Why can't they just call it off already...WHAT ARE THEY WAITING FOR?!?!?!
Gary Bettman makes Bud Selig look good!
For someone who hates hockey, you sure are paying a helluva lot of attention to it....
February 14, 2005
AP - Feb 11, 2:46 pm EST
NEW YORK (AP) -- With no miracle save in sight and a weekend deadline long gone, the NHL made plans for a news conference Tuesday to cancel what little remained of a season already decimated by a lockout.
A public relations executive, speaking on condition of anonymity, told The Associated Press that planning was under way Monday for NHL commissioner Gary Bettman to make the announcement at a news conference in New York.
The Canadian Press, citing an unidentified source, said Bettman will cancel the season at the news conference.
The NHL would become the first major professional league in North America to cancel an entire season because of a labor dispute. This would mark the first time the Stanley Cup was not awarded since a flu epidemic canceled the finals in 1919.
Asked about The Canadian Press report, NHL spokesman Frank Brown said the league had no immediate comment.
After vowing not to reach out to each other after two days of talks broke off Thursday, the sides met Sunday at the request of a high-ranking federal mediator. Neither Bettman nor players' association executive director Bob Goodenow attended.
But that round of talks in Washington was also unsuccessful, with both sides saying that no progress was made.
Neither side has been willing to budge on the salary-cap issue -- the NHL has said it is necessary in any new deal, and the players' association has rejected it as a solution.
NHL chief legal officer Bill Daly was joined Sunday at the five-hour meeting by outside counsel Bob Batterman, with players' association senior director Ted Saskin and outside counsel John McCambridge on the other side.
The sides were assisted by mediators twice before, as recently as a Feb. 2 negotiating session in Newark, N.J. Sunday's meeting was requested by Scot B. Beckenbaugh, the acting director of the U.S. Federal Mediation & Conciliation Service.
Neither side thought mediation would help end the stalemate that has lasted five months.
The lockout reached its 152nd day Monday, a day after the NHL was to hold its All-Star game in Atlanta.
Bettman said the sides needed to start putting a deal on paper by the weekend if the NHL was going to hold a 28-game season and a 16-team playoff.
The NHL said its 30 clubs need to know what their costs would be, and the only way that could be achieved is with a salary cap that linked league revenues to player costs.
A cap was an automatic deal-breaker for the union even though it agreed that the financial landscape had to change. The players' association contended that there are many other ways to fix it.
The sides have traded proposals throughout the lockout that started Sept. 16. But the salary cap has always been the sticking point. Other issues such as arbitration, revenue-sharing, and rookie caps, never reached the true negotiating stage because the sides couldn't agree on the big issue.
On Friday, the NHL sent a memo to its 30 clubs, allowing them to contact players -- something that was previously forbidden. The memo also allowed team executives to speak publicly about the lockout without being subject to fines.
AP Sports Writer Ronald Blum contributed to this report.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news;_yl...v=ap&type=lgns
I'm no Hockey fan, but this sucks for those of you that are....
I'm all for it, as long as they can get some competitive balance when they finally agree.....
The Owners win this one...just my opinion...
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