Yes because before today's announcement, I was a little scared they'd actually play this year. Thankfully though, it's now FINALLY put to bed.Originally posted by Va Beach VH Fan
For someone who hates hockey, you sure are paying a helluva lot of attention to it....
We're all happy your gonna pull through Lou...Originally posted by Lou
Yes because before today's announcement, I was a little scared they'd actually play this year. Thankfully though, it's now FINALLY put to bed.
...Shit, I was worried there for second
Yo Yo Yo
I hear now they're moving it back to Wednesday. What cocksuckers. Get it over with!
It ain't over 'til it's over, the Union looks like they've blinked, but is it enough to save the season ?? We shall see...
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...ATE=sports.htm
NHL Players Agree to Accept Salary Cap
By IRA PODELL
AP Sports Writer
NEW YORK (AP) -- The NHL players' association agreed to accept a salary cap, but contract talks broke down early Tuesday over the amount that teams would pay.
Even while the negotiations were going on, NHL commissioner Gary Bettman had already planned to announce the cancellation of the season Wednesday, a source close to the negotiations told The Associated Press on condition of anonymity Monday.
Bettman was slated to speak Wednesday in New York, but the NHL declined to give details beyond the time and location.
The NHL offered to remove its demand for a link between league revenues and player costs, a "significant move in the players' direction" the union said in a statement early Tuesday following a meeting in Niagara Falls, N.Y.
But when the players offered to accept a cap at $52 million - the first time they came off their opposition to a ceiling on salaries - the offer was rejected by the NHL. The league insisted on a salary cap that topped out at $40 million per team.
"It is indeed unfortunate that with the major steps taken by both sides we were unable to build enough momentum to reach an agreement," players' association senior director Ted Saskin said in a statement early Tuesday.
No new talks were immediately scheduled, but with the philosophical differences now bridged there appeared to be room for the sides to negotiate dollar figures.
The 24-percent rollback on all existing contracts, originally offered by the union on Dec. 9, as well as more aggressive luxury tax rates and thresholds, were included in the players' counteroffer.
With the major stumbling blocks now out of the way, the sides are only $12 million apart on what each team's cap should be. With the salary rollback, only eight of the 30 teams would be above $40 million.
Until now, Bettman insisted that the 30 teams know what their costs will be each season. The only way, he said, that could be achieved was to tie to the amount of player costs to a percentage of league revenues.
That was a solution the players' association refused.
NHL chief legal officer Bill Daly was the only other person involved in the meeting that wrapped up early Tuesday. The NHL reported that no progress was made, but didn't reveal any details of what was discussed.
If a deal is not reached quickly, the NHL would become the first major professional league in North America to lose an entire season because of a labor dispute. The Stanley Cup has been awarded every year since 1919, when a flu epidemic canceled the finals.
But more than two-thirds of the season and the All-Star game already have been lost to a lockout that started Sept. 16.
Bettman said the sides needed to start putting a deal on paper by last weekend if the NHL was going to hold a 28-game season and a full 16-team playoff. The regular season normally is 82 games.
Even a session with a federal mediator Sunday in Washington couldn't produce an agreement. But it did lead to the breakthrough in talks Monday.
Bettman had said teams needed to have cost certainty to survive and the only way he could guarantee that was with a salary cap that linked league revenues to player costs. Now that position has changed for the first time since the NHL started gearing up for the lockout in 1998.
The league has said teams lost $273 million in 2002-03 and $224 million last season, and an economic study commissioned by the NHL found that players get 75 percent of league revenues. The union has challenged those figures.
A cap had been an automatic deal-breaker for the union even though it agreed that the financial landscape was flawed. The players' association contended that there are many other ways to fix it.
"There is no question the system has to change," said New Jersey Devils president Lou Lamoriello, who took part in earlier negotiating sessions. "We just have to keep working to find a solution. It's unfortunate we have to come this.
"If the season does end, we can't stop. We have to continue working at this and get it rectified as soon as we possibly can."
Monday, the 152nd day of the lockout, was to have been the last day of the All-Star break; the festivities in Atlanta were called off months earlier. Through Monday, 824 of the 1,230 regular-season games have been lost.
"Everybody has to take responsibility," Lamoriello said.
The sides have traded proposals throughout the lockout, but the salary cap had always been the sticking point. Other issues such as arbitration, revenue-sharing, and rookie caps never reached the true negotiating stage because the sides couldn't agree on the big issue.
In recent days, the union and league seemed adamant that they wouldn't budge.
"We're done," Saskin said Thursday after talks broke off.
On Sunday, Daly said: "We will not be reaching out to them."
Eat Us And Smile - The Originals
"I have a very belligerent enthusiasm or an enthusiastic belligerence. I’m an intellectual slut." - David Lee Roth
"We are part of the, not just the culture, but the geography. Van Halen music goes along with like fries with the burger." - David Lee Roth
It took baseball 4-5 years ... I don't see how hockey saves itself any sooner.
I don't get why it's so hard to determine what the clubs lost and what they players get, open the books.
I heard this afternoon on the radio that there's a chance of a compromise. :p :pOriginally posted by Lou
I hear now they're moving it back to Wednesday. What cocksuckers. Get it over with!
I hope the season is salvaged just so it pisses you off.
Like Va said what the fuck do you care?
At least the Flyers give Philly a reasonable chance to finally win a championship. What's it been? Like 22 years or something since Philly won a championship?
McNabb played a helluva game in the Super Bowl huh?
CHOKE!!!!!!!!!!!
Talk Classic Rock - The Official Message Board For Classic Rock -- Now on XenForo!
Originally posted by Lou
I hear now they're moving it back to Wednesday. What cocksuckers. Get it over with!
get laid
Originally posted by Cato
Golden, why are you FAT?http://i167.photobucket.com/albums/u...TheDMCross.jpgOriginally posted by lesfunk
Much like yourself as the Jim Morrison of Nazi bunker flies
NHL, Players Give Ground in Negotiations
Tuesday, February 15, 2005 3:30 PM EST
The Associated Press
By IRA PODELL
In what could be a last-second breakthrough, both sides of the NHL lockout have given significant ground: The players' association will accept a salary cap, and the league has backed off its demand for a link between revenues and player costs.
Now they just have to figure out the money, and time has all but run out.
Even while the negotiations were going on, NHL commissioner Gary Bettman already had planned to announce the cancellation of the season Wednesday, a source close to the negotiations told The Associated Press on condition of anonymity Monday.
Bettman was slated to speak Wednesday in New York, but the NHL declined to give details beyond the time and location.
The NHL offered to give in on linkage, a "significant move in the players' direction" the union said early Tuesday following a meeting in Niagara Falls, N.Y.
But when the players offered to accept a cap at $52 million in return _ the first time they came off their opposition to a ceiling on salaries _ the offer was rejected by the NHL. The league insisted on a salary cap that topped out at $40 million per team.
"It is indeed unfortunate that with the major steps taken by both sides we were unable to build enough momentum to reach an agreement," players' association senior director Ted Saskin said.
The NHL had no comment Tuesday on the union's statement.
No new talks were immediately scheduled, but with the philosophical differences now bridged, there appeared to be room for the sides to negotiate dollar figures.
"We probably could've gotten this thing done in the summertime," Chicago forward Matthew Barnaby said. "Am I mad, no? I want to get back to work. But at the same time, I'm just a little disappointed that it went this far to play poker and to have someone call your bluff."
The 24 percent rollback on all existing contracts, originally offered by the union on Dec. 9, as well as more aggressive luxury tax rates and thresholds, were included in the players' counteroffer.
Buffalo Sabres player representative Jay McKee was surprised Tuesday when he heard the union would accept a cap.
"If that's where we were going, I wonder why now," he said.
With the major stumbling blocks now out of the way, the sides are only $12 million apart on what each team's cap should be. With the salary rollback, only eight of the 30 teams would be above $40 million.
Until now, Bettman insisted that the 30 teams know what their costs will be each season. The only way, he said, that could be achieved was to tie to the amount of player costs to a percentage of league revenues.
That was a solution the players' association refused.
NHL chief legal officer Bill Daly was the only other person involved in the meeting that wrapped up early Tuesday. The NHL reported that no progress was made, but didn't reveal any details of what was discussed.
If a deal is not reached quickly, the NHL would become the first major professional league in North America to lose an entire season because of a labor dispute. The Stanley Cup has been awarded every year since 1919, when a flu epidemic canceled the finals.
But more than two-thirds of the season and the All-Star game already have been lost to a lockout that started Sept. 16.
Bettman said the sides needed to start putting a deal on paper by last weekend if the NHL was going to hold a 28-game season and a full 16-team playoff. The regular season normally is 82 games.
Even a session with a federal mediator Sunday in Washington couldn't produce an agreement. But it did lead to the breakthrough in talks Monday.
Bettman had said teams needed to have cost certainty to survive and the only way he could guarantee that was with a salary cap that linked league revenues to player costs. Now that position has changed for the first time since the NHL started gearing up for the lockout in 1998.
The league has said teams lost $273 million in 2002-03 and $224 million last season, and an economic study commissioned by the NHL found that players get 75 percent of league revenues. The union has challenged those figures.
A cap had been an automatic deal-breaker for the union even though it agreed that the financial landscape was flawed. The players' association contended that there are many other ways to fix it.
"There is no question the system has to change," said New Jersey Devils president Lou Lamoriello, who took part in earlier negotiating sessions. "We just have to keep working to find a solution. It's unfortunate we have to come this.
"If the season does end, we can't stop. We have to continue working at this and get it rectified as soon as we possibly can."
Monday, the 152nd day of the lockout, was to have been the last day of the All-Star break; the festivities in Atlanta were called off months earlier. Through Monday, 824 of the 1,230 regular-season games have been lost.
"Everybody has to take responsibility," Lamoriello said.
The sides have traded proposals throughout the lockout, but the salary cap had always been the sticking point. Other issues such as arbitration, revenue-sharing, and rookie caps never reached the true negotiating stage because the sides couldn't agree on the big issue.
In recent days, the union and league seemed adamant that they wouldn't budge.
"We're done," Saskin said Thursday after talks broke off.
On Sunday, Daly said: "We will not be reaching out to them."
Melrose and Hradek were just on ESPNEWS....
Nothing earthshattering, but Melrose is predicting they'll announce a deal tomorrow....
Doing a lot of reading on the various hockey websites, seems that there will be some pissed off players because of the cap, and some pissed off owners, because of the lack of linkage....
Oh well, that's what compromising is all about....
I don't know. I think a lot of the lower payed guys were pissed that the league may have contracted. It seems the anti-Salary Cap faction was the wealthier players that would have lost the most.Originally posted by Va Beach VH Fan
Melrose and Hradek were just on ESPNEWS....
Nothing earthshattering, but Melrose is predicting they'll announce a deal tomorrow....
Doing a lot of reading on the various hockey websites, seems that there will be some pissed off players because of the cap, and some pissed off owners, because of the lack of linkage....
Oh well, that's what compromising is all about....
Bettman letter to Goodenow
February 16, 2005
NEW YORK (CP) - Text of a letter Tuesday from NHL commissioner Gary Bettman to NHL Players' Association executive director Bob Goodenow (all dollar figures U.S.):
Dear Bob:
We attempted to reach out to you with yesterday's offer of a team maximum cap of $42.2 million ($40 million in salary and $2.2 million in benefits) which was not linked to league-wide revenues. As Bill told Ted, "de-linking" a maximum team salary cap from league revenues and total league-wide player compensation has always been problematic for us, especially since we cannot now quantify the damage to the League from the lockout. This presents the risk we will pay out more than we can afford. As you know, if all 30 teams were to spend to the maximum we proposed, and if the damage to our business is as we discussed at our meetings in New York, then the league would continue to lose money.
I know, as do you, that the "deal" we can make will only get worse for the players if we cancel the season - whatever damage we have suffered to date will pale in comparison to the damage from a cancelled season and we will certainly not be able to afford what is presently on the table. Accordingly, I am making one final effort to reach out to make a deal that will let us play this season.
We are increasing our offer of yesterday by increasing the maximum individual team cap to $44.7 million ($42.5 million in salary and $2.2 million in benefits). This offer is not an invitation to begin negotiations - it's too late for that.
This is our last effort to make a deal that's fair to the players and one that the clubs (hopefully) can afford. We have no more flexibility and there is no time for further negotiation.
If this offer is acceptable, please let me know by 11:00 A.M. tomorrow, in advance of my scheduled press conference. Hopefully, the press conference will not be necessary.
Sincerely
Gary B. Bettman
Commissioner
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news?slu...v=cp&type=lgns
There's so much excitement now as if it's gonna happen, people are gonna be crushed if the Union refuses that last offer.....
NHL makes 'final offer'
Story Tools: Print Email
Ira Podell / Associated Press
Posted: 1 hour ago
NEW YORK (AP) - The NHL made a take-it-or-leave-it pitch to the players' association on Tuesday, just hours before the North American pro ice hockey season was set to be canceled altogether.
The league bumped its salary-cap proposal from $40 million to $42.5 million and gave the union until 11 a.m. Wednesday (1600 GMT) to accept. If it is rejected, the season would be canceled two hours later, according to a letter sent by commissioner Gary Bettman to players' association executive director Bob Goodenow.
"This offer is not an invitation to begin negotiations - it's too late for that," Bettman said in the letter obtained by The Associated Press. "This is our last effort to make a deal that's fair to the players and one that the clubs (hopefully) can afford. We have no more flexibility and there is no time for further negotiation."
In the final bargaining session on Monday between NHL chief legal officer Bill Daly and players' association senior director Ted Saskin, the league dropped its long-standing demand for a link between revenues and player costs.
In return, the union came off its reluctance to a salary cap - and proposed one.
The cap the players offered was a soft cap of $52 million, a source close to the negotiations told The AP on condition of anonymity. Teams would be allowed to spend up to 10 percent above that three times in six years, but would be subject to an escalating luxury tax on anything above $40 million.
"We probably could've gotten this thing done in the summertime. Am I mad? No. I want to get back to work. But at the same time, I'm just a little disappointed that it went this far to play poker, to have someone call your bluff."
— Chicago Blackhawks forward Matthey Barnaby
While Monday's talks were still ongoing, Bettman scheduled a Wednesday news conference with the intention of announcing that there wouldn't be any hockey until at least next fall.
"Hopefully, the press conference will not be necessary," Bettman said in the letter.
Now the pressure shifts to the players. Some stated on Tuesday they were surprised that the union accepted a salary cap this late in the game.
"We probably could've gotten this thing done in the summertime," Chicago forward Matthew Barnaby said. "Am I mad? No. I want to get back to work. But at the same time, I'm just a little disappointed that it went this far to play poker and to have someone call your bluff."
Daly met one-on-one with Saskin in Niagara Falls, New York on Monday and presented an offer that removed the owners' desired link between league revenues and player costs.
The players' association refused to agree to that kind of tie-in since the union doesn't trust what the league claims as its revenue total. Once the NHL dropped that requirement, the players came off their refusal of a salary cap.
"Obviously, the two sides have moved off of things they never said they'd move," free agent defenseman James Patrick said. "It would be a shame if you don't bridge the gap or come to some compromise. Even though both sides rejected each other, it puts us in the ballpark I think."
The source added that the NHL's proposal on Monday was for a hard cap at $40 million with a 50 percent tax penalty for teams that spend between $34-40 million.
Now the sides are faced with a hard deadline to make a deal and salvage a season that was already going to be cut down from 82 games per team to 28.
A central component to all offers is a 24 percent rollback on existing contracts that was first presented by the players' association in its Dec. 9 framework. On the adjusted scale, only eight of the 30 teams would have finished last season above $40 million. The average team payroll was $33.95 million, with the rollback factored in.
Without the rollback, the Detroit Red Wings had the highest payroll at the end of last season with $82.9 million; the Pittsburgh Penguins were the lowest at $21.65 million.
If a deal is not reached, the NHL would become the first major professional league in North America to lose an entire season because of a labor dispute. The Stanley Cup has been awarded every year since 1919, when a flu epidemic canceled the finals.
As of Tuesday, the 153rd day of the lockout, 834 of the 1,230 regular-season games and the All-Star game already have been lost to a lockout that started Sept. 16.
What a stupid season that would be if that did happen.
This is where the hard-core hockey fans are just out of touch with how the rest of the world thinks. The hard-core hockey fan would say, "Oooh it's gonna be great! They're gonna be so desperate, every game is gonna be intense!"
I say, "The playoffs are longer than the regular season. What a joke."
Wow Lou, such anger and passion regarding a sport you hate. You sound more pissed that the game might come back. Piss on you!
I'm VERY pissed that the game has a good chance of coming back now. I'd love nothing more than to see the pride and joy of Buffalo go down.
Good, 'cause I enjoyed watching Philly fall on their face in the Superbowl like they did in the NFC championship game three years running.Originally posted by Lou
I'm VERY pissed that the game has a good chance of coming back now. I'd love nothing more than to see the pride and joy of Buffalo go down.
Such a negative ninny Lou(zer). No wonder why you're so loved here.
Dunno, gotta bad feeling with two hours to go....
Bettman, so far anyway, ain't budging from the 42.5M cap.....
Unlike the NBA, right Lou ???Originally posted by Lou
I say, "The playoffs are longer than the regular season. What a joke."
GARY BETTMAN:
NHL, union keep trying to bridge gap,
Proposals continue with clock ticking
By TIM GRAHAM
News Sports Reporter
2/16/2005
"This offer is not an invitation to begin negotiations - it's too late for that."
The hockey world has been on hold since the NHL lockout began five months ago, and the uncertainty about a season shouldn't last one day longer. The answer, whether good or bad, is expected this afternoon.
The league made a take-it-or-leave-it proposal Tuesday night, only to have the NHL Players' Association reject it with a counteroffer a few hours later.
NHL Commissioner Gary Bettman is prepared to call off the season at 1 p.m. today in New York. He has imposed an 11 a.m. deadline to hear if the NHLPA would avert the cancellation by accepting a $42.5 million salary cap.
"This offer is not an invitation to begin negotiations - it's too late for that," Bettman wrote in an open letter to NHLPA Executive Director Bob Goodenow. "This is our last effort to make a deal that's fair to the players and one that the clubs (hopefully) can afford. We have no more flexibility and there is no time for further negotiation."
Goodenow responded around 10 p.m. with a "final attempt to reach an agreement" - a $49 million salary cap. An hour later Bettman rejected the union's counterproposal and reiterated his 11 a.m. deadline.
At 12:15 this morning, Goodenow sent another letter to Bettman, stating "You will receive nothing further from us."
Reports were circulating the NHLPA would consider a $45 million salary cap, a proposal backed by Jeremy Roenick, Jarome Iginla and Chris Pronger. The superstars took it upon themselves to circumvent Goodenow and canvas the membership for support to save the season before the union made its salary-cap concession Monday night.
Some members were displeased at the potentially mutinous tactic.
"A number of guys went behind our backs," New York Islanders center Michael Peca said. "It isn't right. They're doing something unethical. I can say with 100 percent certainty (Goodenow) had no knowledge players were going to the league behind his back. To see these guys, running around and lobbying as individuals about a salary cap, when it's not what we believe in, it looks bad."
The NHL's ultimatum Tuesday was $2.5 million higher than what it offered the night before, when the sides made dramatic progress during a secret meeting in Niagara Falls.
The league, for the first time in collective bargaining, dropped its demand that a salary cap be linked to revenues. The NHLPA rejected the $40 million offer but responded with a landmark concession of its own.
The union shocked membership by making its first salary-cap proposal, offering a $52 million ceiling in addition to payroll taxes with thresholds at $40 million (25 percent), $44 million (50 percent), $48 million (75 percent) and $52 million (150 percent).
"The two sides have moved off of the things they said they'd never move away from," said former Buffalo Sabres defenseman James Patrick, a free agent. "Now it would be a shame if we didn't bridge the gap and come to a compromise. I think it could be done."
All of the recent plans include the NHLPA's Dec. 9 offer to roll back salaries 24 percent. Tuesday's events created a whirlwind of emotions among the rank-and-file.
"I would want an explanation as to why it has happened the way it did," Sabres center Adam Mair said. "The positive is that this brings us closer to a deal. The negative aspect is I don't know how much closer (the NHL) came to us. We've reached out a lot further than they have."
There was suspicion the 11th-hour negotiations were little more than legal maneuverings in the event the NHL declares an impasse in negotiations, the first step toward using replacement players.
The NHLPA would protest to the National Labor Relations Board, claiming the union was the one that compromised on the biggest hurdle and agreed to consider a salary cap.
Some players seemed energized by the union's salary-cap development. Columbusunion representative Todd Marchant rebutted the concept the NHLPA merely was looking to cut its losses by agreeing to a salary cap, but he claimed the move was necessary.
"You gotta look at the whole situation, and if an agreement isn't reached now the season will be canceled," Marchant said. "Then you can pretty much fast forward to next January and we'll be sitting here and probably talking about the same things. It's the gamble you take."
Many players were upset the union flip-flopped on its core belief.
"I'm disappointed in the fact that for years we were told to prepare for a lengthy battle, that under no circumstances were we going to agree to a salary cap," Peca said. "We prepared financially, emotionally, every which way for that very fight. Just as the 24 percent rollback was confusing to the players, we were even more confused when we heard a salary cap had been offered because that's even more of critical change."
While stunned the union is actually entertaining the notion of a salary cap, Marchant said he would trust the NHLPA's executive committee to bring the best possible offer to a membership vote.
"I have full faith that they will offer the right deal at the right time," Marchant said. "When they feel that's the best deal we'll be able to sign, then that's the best deal."
Said Peca: "It still needs to go to a vote. Maybe it doesn't go through. Whatever deal they consummate, it won't be unanimous."
e-mail: tgraham@buffnews.com
http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial...16/1046368.asp
Last edited by Nickdfresh; 02-16-2005 at 10:19 AM.
Bettman Announces SEASON is CANCELLED!
http://www.nhl.com/
Game Off! NHL season canceled
By IRA PODELL, AP Sports Writer
February 16, 2005
AP - Feb 15, 1:37 pm EST
More PhotosNEW YORK (AP) -- The NHL canceled what little was left of the season Wednesday after a series of last-minute offers were rejected on the final day of negotiations.
A lockout over a salary cap shut down the game before it ever got a chance to start in October. Now the NHL, already low on the popularity scale in the United States, becomes the first major pro sports league in North America to lose an entire season to a labor dispute.
``As I stand before you today, it is my sad duty to announce ... it no longer is practical to conduct even an abbreviated season,'' commissioner Gary Bettman said. Accordingly, I have no choice but to announce the formal cancellation of play for 2004-05.''
``This is a sad, regrettable day that all of us wish could have been avoided,'' he said.
Bettman said the sides would continue working to get an agreement.
``We're planning to have hockey next season,'' he said.
The union scheduled a news conference later Wednesday in Toronto.
The league and players' union traded a flurry of proposals and letters Tuesday night, but could never agree on a cap. The players proposed $49 million per team; the owners said $42.5 million.
``We weren't as close as people were speculating,'' Bettman said.
This will be the first time the Stanley Cup isn't awarded since 1919 when a flu epidemic forced the finals to be called off.
``We profoundly regret the suffering this has caused our fans, our business partners and the thousands of people who depend on our industry for their livelihoods,'' Bettman said.
Before Monday, the idea of a salary cap was a deal-breaker for the players' association but the union gave in and said it would accept one when the NHL dropped its insistence that there be a link between revenues and player costs.
That still wasn't enough to end the lockout that started on Sept. 16 and ultimately wiped out the entire 1,230-game schedule and the playoffs.
Updated on Wednesday, Feb 16, 2005 1:22 pm EST
Bettman and Goodenow are both fucking idiots!!
They treat the fans worse than Van Halen for fuck sakes!!
Roids won't help hockey comeback like it did baseball.
Many players think that next season may be in jeopardy as well.
Ugly shit man.
Attention NHL Players: your 2 new teams...
Mezro...Home Depot & Target...it all starts with an application...
Got me a date with a shaved Asian. I know, I know; I think it's fucked!
LOL!Originally posted by Mezro
Attention NHL Players: your 2 new teams...
Mezro...Home Depot & Target...it all starts with an application...
DLR7884
Classic.
Originally Posted by WARF:
DLR7884 - This guy is one bad ass sonafabitch... I've seen him destroy peoples posting careers in a single sentence.
Question: Whom do you blame?
97401 votes since Feb 16 2005
Players 33% 31968 votes
Owners 15% 14383 votes
Both 52% 51050 votes
==================================================
Results from the Yahoo poll. Thought it was interesting and accurate in my opinion.
Well, disappointed that there's no hockey this season, but overall, in the big picture, it's best to get the best deal that ensures a competitive 30-team league, every year....
I watched both press conferences, and I gotta say, I think Bettman explained the NHL's position very clearly.... Goodenow just blames everything on Bettman, and doesn't provide any justification....
Here are some of the key details that I heard...
- The Union has NEVER looked at the owner's books, when they were urged to do so by the league.... So how can you bitch about "hiding" money when you won't even take the initiative to look at the books ??
- The Union turned down a 42.5M salary cap, which would have resulted in a significant increase in team salaries for the majority of teams in the NHL....
- Although they are required to do so, the Union has not even attempted to gather an informal vote amongst the players.... Many reports I've read and seen today said that a vote with the Union may have voted to accept the 42.5M cap....
Local sports radio here has specualted on that for months. I kept hearing, "if you talk to the players one-on-one, they think..(Goodnow is full-of-shit)."Originally posted by Va Beach VH Fan
Many reports I've read and seen today said that a vote with the Union may have voted to accept the 42.5M cap....
I was kinda hoping that they've make a deal....
I have to fly into Lou-adelphia next month for some work in Jersey for a few days, and between Philly/Jersey/NYR/NYI I could've grabbed a game in there....
Oh well....
Well if you want to meet up anyway let me know.
I agree VA, no hockey blows.Originally posted by Va Beach VH Fan
Well, disappointed that there's no hockey this season, but overall, in the big picture, it's best to get the best deal that ensures a competitive 30-team league, every year....
I watched both press conferences, and I gotta say, I think Bettman explained the NHL's position very clearly.... Goodenow just blames everything on Bettman, and doesn't provide any justification....
Here are some of the key details that I heard...
- The Union has NEVER looked at the owner's books, when they were urged to do so by the league.... So how can you bitch about "hiding" money when you won't even take the initiative to look at the books ??
- The Union turned down a 42.5M salary cap, which would have resulted in a significant increase in team salaries for the majority of teams in the NHL....
- Although they are required to do so, the Union has not even attempted to gather an informal vote amongst the players.... Many reports I've read and seen today said that a vote with the Union may have voted to accept the 42.5M cap....
He are some more good points brought up by Dan Wetzel from his article (Yahoo Sports).
Let's start with Goodenow, who has some serious explaining to do to his jilted players' association. He caved on the salary cap but then wouldn't jump on the NHL's final offer – a $42.5 million ceiling – even though it was unlikely he'd ever see a better deal.
After the players' association proposed a 24 percent salary rollback, only four teams would have a current payroll over $42.5 million. This deal would have come as close as possible to maintaining the rich status quo, even though any fool can see revenue is going to drop with bad television deals, widespread fan unrest and sponsorship losses.
Moreover, making the deal was the best chance at keeping the league at its present 30 teams. Major contraction might be good for the competitive sake of the NHL, but it isn't good for protecting union jobs.
How he let this one pass, how he spun a 180 in the 11th hour on the salary cap, how he left the union open to be eventually broken is unfathomable.
So be gone with him. Please. Fire him this afternoon.
Not that Bettman deserves some Nobel Prize for fair negotiations. There is no denying that under his stewardship the NHL has been run into the grave. The league has been mismanaged, misplaced, overexpanded and overpriced, all because Bettman turned his back on the core fans – believing there was a pot of television and corporate (fool's) gold at the end of the small market rainbow.
The reason the cap needed to be at $42.5 million, and not Goodenow's $49 million, is because the league is leaking oil.
Bettman has been a complete and utter failure as commissioner. There is no other way to describe his tenure. He took a historic business, made major operating changes and, 13 years later, it no longer exists. That's a disaster, no matter how freshly pressed his monogrammed shirts are.
To make matters worse were his negotiating tactics in the final hours. If Bettman wanted to do a deal and not do in Goodenow, he would have quietly offered an olive branch, found common ground, negotiated in private.
He would have recognized the strength and weaknesses of his opponent. He would have met in the middle, not just on the salary cap numbers, but personally.
Instead, he released a juvenile, snippy letter to the media last night – negotiating through the Associated Press wire – in a move that clearly boxed Goodenow into a corner. Bettman couldn't wait to show the world he was winning this battle, he couldn't avoid flaunting and taunting, he couldn't stand to give his rival a way out.
If Bettman wanted hockey, if Bettman wanted a season, if Bettman wanted a deal, he should have acted like it.
So be gone with him too. Please. Fire him this afternoon.
There is no hockey because two suits who don't care enough about hockey killed it. Two guys who see this as only a business and not a sport, who saw these negotiations as a personal test of wills rather than a partnership, who cared only about individual glory and not passion, tradition and history.
The NHL doesn't exist right now. Its problems are massive. Not just the collective bargaining agreement, but its quality of play and its connection with the fans.
The current leaders have killed a sport. They created this mess. They shouldn't be trusted to clean it up.
So let's start the rebirth with new leaders.
Wayne Gretzky? Brian Burke? Ken Dryden? Mario Lemieux?
I'd take Don Cherry and Barry Melrose at this point.
At least I know they care about hockey and not just themselves.
Bettman and Goodenow.
Story
Ugh....
This shit turns my stomach even though I knew it was coming.
I was really hoping for the 11th hour deal could be struck. Hockey still beats the hell out of the NBA any day of the week, even with scabs.
"Honey, my shirt got itself torn up. My shirt tore itself on that stripper's hand, and I need it to be sewed up for the show."
"No problem, Dave, no problem. Say hello to Fluffy."
"Fuck you, Fluffy."
"No, no, you're going to upset Fluffy."
"I ain't saying hello to no stuffed bear."
"You know, now that I think about it, it's going to take a little longer to sew up that shirt than I was thinking."
"Hi Fluffy, how you been?"
"Now that I'm thinking of it even more, it's going to take half the time, Double D, Diamond Dave! Would you hold Fluffy?"
"N--- yeah."
Yeah, I agree that Bettman should have worked the issues differently during the final 48 hours or so, that goes for both parties..... The faxes to Goodenow and the press were bush league IMO....
But the fact remains that Bettman was acting in the best interests of ALL 30 teams, and the fact that he didn't accept a deal that would have skyrockected the yearly team salaries to over 45 million per year, which only 6 teams would have spent after the 24 percent pay cut, proves that....
So who's gonna' be a scab and try out for the NHL next year and be a 'replacement player?' What's league minimum?
Some of us are too old to "scab" in the NHL! The rest of you guys, sharpen those skates!
BWAHAHAHAHA!!!
Rumors swirl that NHL season might not be dead yet
By IRA PODELL, AP Sports Writer
February 18, 2005
NEW YORK (AP) -- It's still hard for the hockey faithful to accept that the NHL season was really canceled.
And on Thursday, there was still some reason not to believe it.
Day 155 of the NHL lockout was, stunningly, Day 1 of the offseason. But that didn't stop the rumor mill from generating talk that the season might not be dead after all.
Sure, everyone heard commissioner Gary Bettman make the unequivocal announcement Wednesday that the gap between the league and the players' association over a salary cap would keep the NHL off the ice.
Yet, throughout Thursday, word spread that pockets of people on both sides were trying to get the principal players negotiating again.
Bettman said it was too late for talks. But maybe there was still time.
``I hear some rumblings ... that owners and players are trying to make an attempt to get back to the bargaining table, but it's got to occur today, tomorrow, or the next day,'' agent Pat Brisson said.
By nightfall, that faint hope again seemed false -- a familiar outcome of late.
Both sides said there have been no talks since Bettman and players' association executive director Bob Goodenow traded proposals Tuesday.
``We have heard a lot of the rumors that are out there,'' NHL chief legal officer Bill Daly told The Associated Press. ``Unless or until we hear from the union, the rumors are meaningless.''
The Hockey News cited sources that said Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemieux were trying to work together to get a deal done. Gretzky said he talked to Lemieux, but downplayed the significance of their discussion.
``To say Mario and I had a conversation to stir up the conversations and talks again, that's just not true,'' Gretzky said on the Fan 590 in Toronto.
And it appears that no other scenarios could un-cancel the season, either.
``The players we've spoken to understand the basis upon which Gary canceled the season, and as a result there's no expectation among our membership that there would be any further negotiations,'' NHLPA senior director Ted Saskin told the AP.
In becoming the first major sports league in North America to lose an entire season to a labor dispute, the NHL finally got the national attention it's always craved.
But for all the wrong reasons.
Now the fear is the fight over a new deal between owners and players will just start over from scratch. Everything offered has been pulled back, any softening of the positions has been lost.
One canceled season could easily become two.
``I hope the people in these negotiations realize they're not that far apart,'' Rangers forward Bobby Holik said. ``Let's not blame one or the other. The blame is collective, and let's get working on a new day.''
There was no progress made during the first five months of the lockout, but breakthroughs were achieved just days before the season was lost. Hope was raised and then quickly dashed.
The dispute has always been about a salary cap, but even after owners and players made concessions in an effort to save the season, it all fell apart over dollar figures.
``We didn't make good history, but we made history another way,'' Dallas forward Bill Guerin, a member of the players' association executive committee, said while making the radio rounds Thursday. ``We have to be the first union to offer a salary cap and get shot down.''
All along, the union swore it would never accept a cap -- but that was before the NHL dropped its insistence on having a link between league revenues and player costs.
Once the sides started trading numbers, it became clear they weren't close enough to a deal. Even though the league's cap offer of $42.5 million per team was only $6.5 million less than the players' proposal, conditions and fine print put them further apart than it seemed -- a gap that just couldn't be bridged.
``It's crazy,'' said Islanders general manager Mike Milbury, a union representative during his career. ``Twenty years ago when I played, we didn't have in the dressing room catalogs of `Christie's Great Estates of the World.' I mean, these are wealthy people, millionaires, and they are losing valuable time.''
Instead of starting a deal to be on NBC and receiving promos during the network's ``Must See TV'' lineup, the NHL now has people saying, ``Did you see what they did to the hockey season?''
The NHL's partnership with NBC will still be there when play resumes. The revenue-sharing deal in which the network is not even paying rights fees won't start until hockey is played.
``We were prepared for any eventuality,'' NBC Sports spokesman Mike McCarley said. ``We have profitable replacement programming in place.''
Many will now look ahead to this spring's world championship tournament in Austria. Usually, only players on teams eliminated from the Stanley Cup playoffs had the opportunity to take part -- but many stars might be craving a competitive game.
Over 300 of the 700-plus players have spent at least part of the season in European leagues, and that would be an option again in the fall.
Bettman didn't rule out the use of replacement players for next season if a deal with the union can't be worked out. He said the NHL plans to have hockey next season, and all options will be explored by the board of governors when it convenes soon.
Milbury called some of his players Wednesday night and urged them to push the union leadership to make a deal.
``This is not about a bluff,'' Milbury said. ``The best deal has already been offered. The sooner they come to the conclusion that they need to make a deal to move this business forward, the better off we all are.''
http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/news;_yl...v=ap&type=lgns
What a joke.
And by the way, did the league not give all the arenas the go-ahead to open up dates 45 days in advance, on a rolling basis? So they wouldn't even be able to get started in April unless the NHL wanted to pay them all something to close the dates again.
It's too far gone anyways.
28 games or less for the Cup would be an insult to the history of the game, not like they are worried about it anyway.
It's all bullshit.
Yea I agree, but they would be an incredible 28 games, though!Originally posted by ALinChainz
It's too far gone anyways.
28 games or less for the Cup would be an insult to the history of the game, not like they are worried about it anyway.
It's all bullshit.
Yeah babyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy !!!!!
Of course, leave it up to the 2 greatest players in NHL history (#1 Lemieux for those who don't know) to get this shit over with....
Rumor is that they are finally agreeing just to piss off Louuuuuuuuuu even more !!!!
http://www.thehockeynews.com/en/head...t=954945254360
Season saved Saturday?
February 18, 2005
The NHL season is expected to be "un-canceled" Saturday in New York.
A player close to the talks who asked to remain anonymous told The Hockey News the two sides have agreed to a deal in principle that features a $45-million salary cap. Asked if there was any way a deal won't get done, the player said,
"not that I can see. I couldn't possibly imagine the idea that somebody is going to try to make a name for themselves in the last minute here."
Following two days of media speculation that backroom talks between players and owners were taking place in an attempt to "un-cancel" the 2004-05 season, the NHL Players' Association issued a press release Friday night confirming it would be meeting with the league in New York on Saturday. If the two sides are as close as expected, an agreement in principle could be made public tomorrow.
As first reported by The Hockey News, Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemieux are still believed to be major players in the process. Both are reported to be in New York taking part in the talks.
"I believe all (that) stuff is pretty accurate," said the player.
A second source confirmed Lemieux traveled to New York on Friday.
NHL commissioner Gary Bettman cancelled the season Wednesday with the two sides seemingly within striking distance of a settlement. Though the components of their offers had some differences, the sides agreed on the basic premise of a salary cap with luxury taxes. The union was offering a $49-million cap and the league $42.5 million.
One NHL GM told The Hockey News Bettman’s decision to cancel the season had a lot to do with history repeating itself. In other words, if NHLPA executive director Bob Goodenow thought he was going to maintain his reputation of being a successful deadline hunter, he was wrong.
Since the season was called off, there has been considerable movement among the players as well as agents and GMs to do whatever is necessary to get talks started again in an attempt to save the season.
Detroit captain Steve Yzerman told The Hockey News Thursday afternoon he believed the season could be saved.
“I don’t know if it’s necessarily tonight, tomorrow morning, Friday night or Saturday…I know the season has been cancelled, but it’s not too late to 'un-cancel' it.”
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