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Thread: ELVIS and Osama Bin Laden....can YOU tell the difference?

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    Exclamation ELVIS and Osama Bin Laden....can YOU tell the difference?

    CHILLING PARALLELS BETWEEN
    CHRISTIAN AND MUSLIM FUNDAMENTALISTS

    by Nick Gier, Professor Emeritus of Philosophy, University of Idaho

    There are some chilling parallels between Christian and Islamic fundamentalists. Both divide the world between believers and unbelievers, and by deciding for themselves who is saved and who is damned, they think that they can play God with our lives.

    Both have also declared war on the secular culture of liberal democracy, the most peaceful and prosperous means of social organization ever devised by humankind. They both reject the separation of church and state and would set up governments based on their own views of divine laws.

    Of greatest concern, however, is the fundamentalist view of the violent end of the world. A common scenario is a great war in the Middle East in which the armies of God destroy the armies of Satan. Radical Muslims of course identify Israel and the US as the forces of evil, but Christian fundamentalists see Islam as the ultimate enemy. The horrifying implication is that the Jews, Muslims, and Christians of the Middle East will be the primary victims of this holocaust.

    Some conservative Christians make yet another division: an ethnic one that declares that one culture is superior to all others. Michael Hill, founder of the League of the South, proposes that an independent neo-Confederacy of fifteen states would have the duty to protect the values of Anglo-Celtic culture from black Americans, who are "a compliant and deadly underclass." A key word for the League is “hierarchy,” the God-given right for superiors (read “white males”) to rule over inferiors.

    Since 1998, the League of the South has had close ties with the Sons of Confederate Veterans, who in 2000 elected Kirk Lyons to its national executive board. An outspoken racist, Lyons was married by neo-Nazi Richard Butler in 1990, when Butler still had his compound in Hayden Lake. Lyons has led an amazingly unsuccessful legal campaign to have Southern whites defined as a “protected class.”

    The League and the Sons of Confederate Veterans organize public protests with the Council of Conservative Citizens whose website decries "negroes, queers and other retrograde species of humanity." (Try replacing the “Cs” in their acronym with “Ks”!) One League leader said that we “need a new type of Klan.”

    Moscow pastor Doug Wilson and Steve Wilkins of Monroe, Louisiana wrote a booklet entitled Southern Slavery as It Was in which they describe the antebellum south as the most harmonious multiracial society in history. Two University of Idaho history professors took time from their busy schedules to refute this piece paragraph by paragraph. It was later discovered that 20 percent of the essay was lifted from Robert Fogel’s and Stanley Engerman’s Time on the Cross.



    Wilson still stands by the booklet’s thesis, but he has withdrawn it from circulation. The problem, however, is that there is remaining stock in neo-Confederate book stores and at Wilson’s 154 Christian schools across the nation. In December the principal of one of those schools in Carey, North Carolina was forced to remove the booklet because of local protests.



    Both Wilson and Wilkins deny that they are racists or neo-Confederates, but Wilkins is a founding director of the League of the South. The League’s website uses small Confederate flags as hot buttons for information about the board members. Even though a visitor said that he saw a Confederate flag displayed in Wilson’s office, he now claims that neo-Confederates should “burn the flag and wear the ashes.” I would love to see Wilkins and Wilson do this when they meet for a conference on the American Revolution in Moscow on August 8-10, 2005.



    If Wilson has no sympathies with neo-Confederates, why is he associating with Wilkins, displaying the Confederate flag at his Moscow school’s functions, celebrating Robert E. Lee's birthday at this school, speaking at the Southern Heritage Conference, and writing for Chronicles, a journal whose editors boast that they are all members of the League of the South?



    Christian nationalist George Grant, who believes in the death penalty for gays and lesbians, has joined Wilson and Wilkins at earlier Moscow conferences. Grant and Wilkins are promoting a novel entitled Heiland, whose hero leads a violent overthrow of a "godless" federal government. Heiland has been compared to the Turner Diaries, which inspired the bombing of the Oklahoma Federal Building.



    Another parallel between Christian and Islamic fundamentalism is a desire to make religious laws the laws of the land. In his regular column in Wilson’s Credenda Agenda (vol. 3: nos. 9, 11), Greg Dickison, member of Wilson’s Christ Church and a Moscow public defender, states that "if we could have it our way,” then there would be capital punishment for “kidnapping, sorcery, bestiality, adultery, homosexuality, and cursing one's parents.” Dickison also quotes biblical passages (without qualification) that support slavery as "ordained and regulated by God," death for apostasy (Deut. 13.6-9), and cutting off a woman’s hand for touching a strange man's genitals (Deut. 25.11,12). Behold, the Moscow Taliban!



    I have obtained my information about the neo-Confederate movement from the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC), which has declared the League of the South as a hate group. Wilson and his associates belittle the SPLC’s achievements, one of which was supporting the suit that lead to the dismantling of Butler’s Aryan Nations compound in Hayden Lake. We are now faced with yet another national embarrassment in Northern Idaho, and many Moscowans are already planning protests for the August conference.



    I have fought religious fundamentalism all of my adult life, primarily because I believe that it is one of the most destructive forces in the world. These views do not deserve our respect nor tolerance, but call for our strongest condemnation. Come join us in Moscow in August to demonstrate once again that “Idaho is too great for hate.”

    Nick Gier taught philosophy and religion at the University of Idaho for 31 years. The quotations from neo-Confederates were taken from Intelligence Report (Summer, 2000), pp. 29, 14. The title “Moscow Taliban” was inspired by Mark Potok’s article “Taliban on the Palouse?” in Intelligence Report (Summer, 2004). Visit this website for all that has happened in Moscow since the discovery of the slavery booklet in October, 2003. Also check Gier's book God, Reason, and the Evangelicals for praise for evangelical Christians who do not take the fundamentalist line.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kristy View Post
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    I posted under aliases and I jerk off with a sock. Anything else to add?

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    Actually, their rhetoric is very similiar!

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    You should be embarrassed for posting that rediculous article...

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    Fuck this and fuck that
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    Osama Bin Elvis??

    Where's Pabitch when you really need him?
    Eat Us And Smile

    Cenk For America 2024!!

    Justice Democrats


    "If the American people had ever known the truth about what we (the BCE) have done to this nation, we would be chased down in the streets and lynched." - Poppy Bush, 1992

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    Originally posted by ELVIS
    You should be embarrassed for posting that rediculous article...
    You want ridiculous, we got ridiculous!

    "God loves you, and I love you. And you can count on both of us as a powerful message that people who wonder about their future can hear." —George W. Bush, Los Angeles, Calif., March 3, 2004

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    Originally posted by ELVIS
    You should be embarrassed for posting that rediculous article...
    Why is that? Because it exposes the striking similarities between you and terrorists???? YOU are the one who should be embarrassed

    I notice you can't refute it either. It must be chilling to realize that you think EXACTLY like those who are trying to kill and destroy America.

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    Elvis, this thread is a shining example why the Democrats will probably lose the White House once again in 2008. They just don't get it. They most likely never will. We should have pity on those who rode the short bus all those years.
    “If bullshit was currency, Joe Biden would be a billionaire.” - George W. Bush

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    Originally posted by BigBadBrian
    Elvis, this thread is a shining example why the Democrats will probably lose the White House once again in 2008. They just don't get it. They most likely never will. We should have pity on those who rode the short bus all those years.
    I am sorry we lack pity for both you and Elvis.
    Last edited by Nickdfresh; 02-20-2005 at 03:37 PM.

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    Originally posted by Nickdfresh
    I am sorry we lack pity for both you and Elvis.
    Brie is no longer worthy of keystrokes Nicky.

    The cons have some intelligent voices in these forums, he's just not one of them.

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    Seeing as how Osama bin Laden is denounced by law-abiding true Muslims, I think it's a ridiculous notion.

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    Originally posted by ELVIS
    You should be embarrassed for posting that rediculous article...
    Personally, what I find "embarrassing" is the fact you STILL can't spell the word ridiculous after all this time.....

    huked on foniks?

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    I am soooo staying outta this thread...

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    Christian fundamentalists don't see Islam as the ultimate enemy! This guy sounds like he didn't do his homework.

    The guy is comparing the worst of these faiths' believers and projecting it like it's the mainstream of both. Hardly the case.

    Sloppy work.

    Also, I'm a Christian and I believe in the separation of church and state in the United States. I'm considered a pretty by-the-book, conservative Christian and I'm all for the separation of both.


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    Originally posted by Warham
    Seeing as how Osama bin Laden is denounced by law-abiding true Muslims, I think it's a ridiculous notion.
    Excellent point, ham.

    What do you think of the statement from ELVIS that says ALL muslims are EVIL, and there ARE NO GOOD MUSLIMS???????

    :confused:

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    We are all inherently evil, Lounge. I don't distinguish one person from the next in that regard.

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    Originally posted by Warham
    Christian fundamentalists don't see Islam as the ultimate enemy! This guy sounds like he didn't do his homework.

    The guy is comparing the worst of these faiths' believers and projecting it like it's the mainstream of both. Hardly the case.
    Once again ham, you're stating MY arguement for me.

    It's the extreme far right of the Christians, who believe they are the ONLY true religion.

    MOST Christians are loving, respectful, and tolerant of other faiths.

    ELVIS and his ilk are no better than the terrorists.

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    Originally posted by LoungeMachine
    Brie is no longer worthy of keystrokes Nicky.

    Yet you responded. Dumbass.

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    I'm tolerant of other faiths. Doesn't mean I think they are right.

    Although, whenever I hear a Christian say that there is more than one true way to God, I cringe, because that is not what the Bible teaches us.

    I am respectful and tolerant though.

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    Originally posted by Warham


    The guy is comparing the worst of these faiths' believers .
    Of which ELVIS is one.....

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    Nope. No way I'm gonna get involved in this can of worms. Not me. No way, no how. Nope nope nope.

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    Originally posted by Warham
    I'm tolerant of other faiths. Doesn't mean I think they are right.
    Which in my mind makes you a good Christian

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    Originally posted by BigBadBrian
    Yet you responded. Dumbass.
    No, cocksmoker

    I responded to Nick.

    But NOW I responded to you. Catch the difference Gump?

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    Originally posted by academic punk
    Nope. No way I'm gonna get involved in this can of worms. Not me. No way, no how. Nope nope nope.
    you know you wanna

    you know you need it

    just a taste, what's it gonna hurt? no one will know

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    Originally posted by LoungeMachine
    No, cocksmoker

    I responded to Nick.

    But NOW I responded to you. Catch the difference Gump?
    No. The fact that you mentioned my name in your post makes it clear you were agitated at me. Sing along now..."You got me...under your skin.....cha cha cha...."

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    Re: ELVIS and Osama Bin Laden....can YOU tell the difference?

    Originally posted by LoungeMachine
    CHILLING PARALLELS BETWEEN
    CHRISTIAN AND MUSLIM FUNDAMENTALISTS

    by Nick Gier, Professor Emeritus of Philosophy, University of Idaho

    There are some chilling parallels between Christian and Islamic fundamentalists. Both divide the world between believers and unbelievers, and by deciding for themselves who is saved and who is damned, they think that they can play God with our lives.

    Both have also declared war on the secular culture of liberal democracy, the most peaceful and prosperous means of social organization ever devised by humankind. They both reject the separation of church and state and would set up governments based on their own views of divine laws.

    Of greatest concern, however, is the fundamentalist view of the violent end of the world. A common scenario is a great war in the Middle East in which the armies of God destroy the armies of Satan. Radical Muslims of course identify Israel and the US as the forces of evil, but Christian fundamentalists see Islam as the ultimate enemy. The horrifying implication is that the Jews, Muslims, and Christians of the Middle East will be the primary victims of this holocaust.

    Before this turns into another flame-fest, does ANYBODY in Elvis' camp care to refute the fact that he believes the same thing the fundamental Islamic extremists believes?

    My point in starting this thread, [other than to piss of that holier-than-thou-hypocrite elvis] was to show that EXTREME views from either side do nothing but perpetuate HATE AND FEAR.

    And Hate and Fear seem to be what both of these groups have in common.:confused:

    Whatever happened to "God is Love" ?

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    This is something that I noticed a long time ago.

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    Originally posted by BigBadBrian
    Elvis, this thread is a shining example why the Democrats will probably lose the White House once again in 2008. They just don't get it. They most likely never will. We should have pity on those who rode the short bus all those years.
    If this is the way this country is going, ie. the tiolet, then I would rather be on the losing side of elections, then sell of my conscience just to be on a "winning" side.

    Yes, I get it, the US is filled with millions and millions of delusionally hate filled people who have self imposed some sense of authority over others that don't think as they do. How said it is indeed.

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    Originally posted by Warham
    Seeing as how Osama bin Laden is denounced by law-abiding true Muslims, I think it's a ridiculous notion.
    And at the same time, the extremist right-wing religious nut jobs here in the US are denounced by the true law-abiding people who have deep religious and spiritual understanding.

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    Re: ELVIS and Osama Bin Laden....can YOU tell the difference?

    Originally posted by LoungeMachine
    ELVIS and Osama Bin Laden....can YOU tell the difference?

    yes

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    yo...this thread is like TNT. No way am I getting involoved here. Nuh-uh. There ain't enough oil in Iraq for me to put in my two cents here. Staying FAAAAAAR away from this landmine.

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    Originally posted by academic punk
    yo...this thread is like TNT. No way am I getting involoved here. Nuh-uh. There ain't enough oil in Iraq for me to put in my two cents here. Staying FAAAAAAR away from this landmine.
    Oh fer Christ's fucking sake [that shoud get a rise ]

    Get the God damn fence post outta yer ass A/P and weigh in on this one.

    Either YOU SEE a clear difference between ELVIS, who believes there are no good Muslims, that they're all evil, and that he knows the only true God, and Osama, who believes there are no good Christians, they're all evil, and he knows the only true God, OR YOU DON'T.

    For the record, what idealogical difference is there?

    They both feel they are the only true followers
    They both feel the other is evil
    They both feel the world will end in a war in the middle east
    They both feel they will be rewarded in heaven

    What's the difference?

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    Originally posted by LoungeMachine
    Oh fer Christ's fucking sake [that shoud get a rise ]

    Get the God damn fence post outta yer ass A/P and weigh in on this one.

    Either YOU SEE a clear difference between ELVIS, who believes there are no good Muslims, that they're all evil, and that he knows the only true God, and Osama, who believes there are no good Christians, they're all evil, and he knows the only true God, OR YOU DON'T.

    For the record, what idealogical difference is there?

    They both feel they are the only true followers
    They both feel the other is evil
    They both feel the world will end in a war in the middle east
    They both feel they will be rewarded in heaven

    What's the difference?
    Remember, I'm NOT asking which one you think is RIGHT....

    I'm asking is there ANY fundamental difference in their views.....

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    Originally posted by LoungeMachine
    Oh fer Christ's fucking sake [that shoud get a rise ]

    Get the God damn fence post outta yer ass A/P and weigh in on this one.

    Either YOU SEE a clear difference between ELVIS, who believes there are no good Muslims, that they're all evil, and that he knows the only true God, and Osama, who believes there are no good Christians, they're all evil, and he knows the only true God, OR YOU DON'T.

    For the record, what idealogical difference is there?

    They both feel they are the only true followers
    They both feel the other is evil
    They both feel the world will end in a war in the middle east
    They both feel they will be rewarded in heaven

    What's the difference?
    Elvis is the best singer of modern music ever - modern meaning not classical - and can chug 5 banana-splits in a Vegas concert break. Plus, he's dead. Osama can't do either...

    Seriously, religious fanatics ARE dangerous, no matter what their faith is. Lounge, if you don't stop pissing ELVIS, he might do a suicide attack on you.

    Cheers! :bottle:

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    That's a thought...

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    Originally posted by ELVIS
    That's a thought...

    What, doing a suicide attack on Lounge? You better do it right the first time, though... I hear you can only do one of these, for some reason...

    Cheers! :bottle:

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    Originally posted by LoungeMachine


    It's the extreme far right of the Christians, who believe they are the ONLY true religion.

    Being a Christian has nothing to do with religion!

    Until you do some homework and read the Bible with an open mind, you will never see what I am talking about...

    What gets me is when you liberals are open minded to everything from gay rights to lobster rights, but are close minded about Jesus Christ...

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    Originally posted by BigBadBrian
    Elvis, this thread is a shining example why the Democrats will probably lose the White House once again in 2008. They just don't get it.
    Probably ??

    There is a huge Christian uprising around the world today...

    They can't compete, and the smart ones know it...

    That's why we see Hillary leaning to the right. She might not get it, but she is alert...

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    Originally posted by ELVIS


    . She might not get it, but she is alert...
    Well, the world needs more lerts

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    Originally posted by LoungeMachine

    What do you think of the statement from ELVIS that says ALL muslims are EVIL, and there ARE NO GOOD MUSLIMS???????

    I did not say that...

    I said Islam was inherently evil...

    I stand by that

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    Originally posted by ELVIS
    Probably ??

    There is a huge Christian uprising around the world today...
    A jihad, you might say......



    [ I love the fact that he keeps making my point for me, but is too thick to know it ]

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