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Thread: Italian report refutes US report

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    Italian report refutes US report

    concerning the attempted assassination of that Italian journalist, killing the Italian secret service man who helped free her.

    Fucking murderers!
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    Re: Italian report refutes US report

    Originally posted by kentuckyklira
    concerning the attempted assassination of that Italian journalist, killing the Italian secret service man who helped free her.

    Fucking murderers!
    Do you ever post the article along with your commentary?

    http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...ck=1&cset=true

    May 2, 2005

    Miscues at Roadblock in Iraq
    An uncensored version of a U.S. military probe into an Italian's slaying cites lack of training, poor communication.


    By Ashraf Khalil, Times Staff Writer

    BAGHDAD — A U.S. military probe into the fatal shooting of an Italian intelligence agent in Iraq has found that the soldiers who opened fire had only recently been trained on how to conduct a roadblock, did not know that the Italians' car was expected along their stretch of road, and, because of a communications breakdown, were manning their irregular nighttime post long after they should have been.

    According to an uncensored version of the Army's report on the March 4 shooting, which killed agent Nicola Calipari and wounded an Italian journalist whom he had helped free from hostage-takers, the soldiers had been ordered to block an onramp along the road to Baghdad's airport to allow safe passage of a convoy carrying U.S. Ambassador John D. Negroponte.

    The report said the troops were asked to set up the roadblock around 7:15 p.m. and they "expected to maintain the blocking position no more than 15 minutes." Negroponte's convoy apparently passed by the onramp shortly after 8 p.m., but because of poor communications, the troops were still in place when Calipari's car approached just before 9 p.m.

    The troops' immediate supervisors had arrived in Iraq just weeks earlier and March 4 was their "first full duty day," said the uncensored report, which was obtained by the Italian newspaper La Repubblica and published in full on its website.

    As for the troops manning the roadblock, the 42-page report, prepared by Brig. Gen. Peter Vangjel, found that "there is no evidence to indicate that the soldiers were trained to execute blocking positions before arriving in theater." They were trained for 10 days in February by troops who were leaving Iraq.

    The U.S. report exonerated the soldiers of any wrongdoing and said they acted according to established rules of engagement. That conclusion prompted a fierce reaction from Rome, and the Italian government is expected to publish a rebuttal to the findings today.

    Two days before the incident, two soldiers from the same unit were killed by a bomb at a checkpoint, one of them a "very close friend" of the unit's commander, investigators found. The report also said the commander had repeatedly asked superiors for permission to dismantle the roadblock, because he feared leaving his troops stationary for a long period. Nevertheless, the report found the soldiers did not act rashly in opening fire.

    Lt. Col. Steve Boylan, a senior military spokesman, said an error in formatting allowed censored portions of the report to be made public.

    Copyright 2005 Los Angeles Times


    Last edited by Nickdfresh; 05-02-2005 at 03:12 PM.
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    Re: Re: Italian report refutes US report

    Originally posted by Nickdfresh
    Do you ever post the article along with your commentary?

    I hate c & p!

    Why should I discuss politics with people who couldnīt be bothered to know anything about anything unless I c & P it over here??

    Those interested enough to know without my help might add to an interesting discussion. The rest (like BBB) will just end up posting nazi-references!

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    Italy hits back over agent's death
    U.S. reports says soldiers were not told of movements


    Monday, May 2, 2005 Posted: 7:33 PM EDT (2333 GMT)


    Nicola Calipari was killed in the shooting.

    ROME, Italy (CNN) -- Disputing the conclusions of a U.S. report into the fatal shooting of an Italian intelligence agent, an Italian investigation released late Monday found that stress and inexperience among U.S. soldiers played a role in the shooting.

    Italian intelligence agent Nicola Calipari, 50, was killed in the March 4 incident shortly after he secured the release of journalist Giuliana Sgrena, who had been held by insurgents in Iraq.

    U.S. soldiers opened fire on their vehicle as it approached a checkpoint en route to Baghdad International Airport.

    The Italian report said there were coordination problems among officials in Iraq, but U.S. officials had been told about the plans to rescue Sgrena -- something the U.S. military has denied.

    The United States released its report Saturday, with the military saying no disciplinary action should be taken against any soldier involved in the shooting. (Full story)

    The Italian report also found no evidence the killing was deliberate.

    But the Italian report also said no clear warning signs were given to the vehicle -- that flashing warning lights came at the same time troops began firing.

    In addition, the report took issue with the American report about the speed the vehicle was traveling, saying it was 20 to 30 miles per hour (30 to 50 km/h) compared with the U.S. military's claim it was around 50 mph (80 km/h).

    Italy has been a staunch U.S. ally in Iraq and provided more than 3,000 troops for missions there but Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi has faced increasing calls to bring the troops home in the wake of the U.S. report clearing its troops.

    Berlusconi is to address both houses of the Parliament on Thursday about the Italian report.

    A classified version of the U.S. report appeared on the Internet due to a computer error shortly after its Saturday release, officials said.

    CNN is reporting some details from that version, but none that would risk the security or privacy of U.S. and Italian personnel, including their names.

    The U.S. report said that Baghdad was then under a wave of insurgent attacks that reached into the thousands.

    It also concluded that word that agent Calipari, 50, was trying to spirit Sgrena out of Iraq was never passed to U.S. forces.

    The U.S. version said the troops who shot and killed Calipari and wounded Sgrena at a checkpoint were operating within their rules and would not face disciplinary action.

    The U.S. report painted a grim picture of insurgency in the Iraqi capital in the months leading up to the March incident, including some details not made public elsewhere.

    It said that from November 2004 to March 2005 there were more than 3,000 attacks in Baghdad, with over 2,000 of those attacks directed against U.S. forces.

    The report detailed the types of attacks along the airport road that troops had previously encountered, such as explosives set on timers, explosives placed along guard rails or along median strips, and even explosives in animal carcasses.

    The U.S. report was emphatic that no U.S. military personnel were aware ahead of time that the Italians were traveling on the airport road that night.

    But the report described an exchange between a U.S. Army captain and an Italian general, to whom he had been assigned as an aide.

    It says the Italian general suspected Sgrena was on her way to the airport that night, but told him, "It is best if no one knows." The captain took that to be a direct order, the report says.

    U.S. investigators said it was difficult to reconstruct the March 4 incident because the scene was not preserved, but they believe the Italians were traveling about 50 mph (80 km/h) when the U.S. troops flashed lights and signaled them to stop before 11 shots were fired.

    The checkpoint was on a curved area in the road, and that may have been a contributing factor, the U.S. report said.

    Calipari was hit in the head by a bullet as he attempted to shield Sgrena. The reporter was wounded in the shoulder, and two others in the car were also wounded.

    Soldiers tried to render medical assistance to Calipari at the scene but he died within a few minutes, the classified report says.

    The young soldier who fired the shots apparently became so upset he was relieved of his post so he could "collect himself," the report said.

    One indicator of how high tensions may have been running is that soldiers manning that checkpoint had specifically been told to be on the watch for suicide car bombers, one in a black car and one in a white car.

    The soldiers had already turned around 15 to 30 cars at the checkpoint that night, so when this car approached they believed it was a threat, according to the report.

    -- CNN Correspondent Barbara Starr contributed to this report

    Copyright 2005 CNN. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed. Associated Press contributed to this report

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    Re: Re: Re: Italian report refutes US report

    Originally posted by kentuckyklira
    I hate c & p!

    Why should I discuss politics with people who couldnīt be bothered to know anything about anything unless I c & P it over here??
    Because we'll never take you as more than a whining troll if you don't.
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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Italian report refutes US report

    Originally posted by Dr. Love
    Because we'll never take you as more than a whining troll if you don't.
    If ignorant and at most moderately educated hillbillies consider me a whining troll, guess what, I can live with it!

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    Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Italian report refutes US report

    Originally posted by kentuckyklira
    If ignorant and at most moderately educated hillbillies consider me a whining troll, guess what, I can live with it!
    Sesh wouldn't take too kindly to you calling him a hillbilly. Stop it.


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    Re: Italian report refutes US report

    Originally posted by kentuckyklira
    murderers!
    uh...that's a bit harsh.

    the U.S. soldiers may or may not have been mistaken, inexperienced, incompetent or whatever.

    but murderers?
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    Originally posted by Nickdfresh

    (CNN) --


    Calipari was hit in the head by a bullet as he attempted to shield Sgrena. The reporter was wounded in the shoulder, and two others in the car were also wounded.

    Soldiers tried to render medical assistance to Calipari at the scene but he died within a few minutes, the classified report says.

    The young soldier who fired the shots apparently became so upset he was relieved of his post so he could "collect himself," the report said.

    One indicator of how high tensions may have been running is that soldiers manning that checkpoint had specifically been told to be on the watch for suicide car bombers, one in a black car and one in a white car.

    The soldiers had already turned around 15 to 30 cars at the checkpoint that night, so when this car approached they believed it was a threat, according to the report.

    Doesn't sound like even the Italians thought of the American soldiers at that checkpoint as mindless "trigger-happy goons."

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    Originally posted by Nickdfresh
    Doesn't sound like even the Italians thought of the American soldiers at that checkpoint as mindless "trigger-happy goons."
    They have to be diplomatic, I donīt!

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