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Thread: Black Clergy Rally to Dispel Comparisons Between Civil Rights, Gay Marriage

  1. #1
    lucky wilbury
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    Black Clergy Rally to Dispel Comparisons Between Civil Rights, Gay Marriage

    http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGAAUHJI5SD.html

    Black Clergy Rally to Dispel Comparisons Between Civil Rights, Gay Marriage

    By Mark Niesse Associated Press Writer
    Published: Mar 22, 2004

    ATLANTA (AP) - From the cradle of the civil rights movement, several dozen black pastors are voicing their opposition to the gay marriage movement and rhetoric that equates it with the struggle for racial equality.

    The pastors rallied late Monday at an Atlanta-area church where they signed a declaration outlining their beliefs on marriage and religion. They are pressing for a state constitutional ban on gay marriages, which will be considered again by the Georgia House as soon as this week.

    Many black clergy say they are offended by the gay rights movement's claim that their struggle is the same as the effort for equal racial rights.

    The declaration, which was signed by 30 pastors, was to be presented to legislative leaders later in the week. It said same-sex marriage is not a civil right, and marriage between a man and a woman is necessary for the upbringing of children.

    "This is neither a hate nor a fear issue," the statement said. "People are free in our nation to pursue relationships as they choose. To redefine marriage, however, to suit the preference of those choosing alternative lifestyles is wrong."

    Bishop William Shields of Hopewell Baptist Church told the crowd of about 250 that gay marriage is "a threat to who we are and what we stand for."

    "I'm not here tonight to discriminate against anyone. I'm here to stand on the word of God," Shields said.

    Bishop Donn Thomas of Messiah's World Outreach Ministries said the civil rights movement "was a positive freedom for African-Americans to experience our capabilities as men and women created in the image of God."

    "The homosexual lobby is seeking a negative freedom rooted in the sexual revolution, and it's a negative freedom from the restraint of morality," Thomas said.

    The rally is important because the black pastors are taking a stand on such a difficult issue, said Randy Hicks, president of the Georgia Family Council, which helped organize the event.

    "They're making an appropriate statement about what marriage is and what it is not," Hicks said. "These men and women can certainly be characterized as compassionate and caring, and they are concerned about things like discrimination."

    More than 600 people rallied last month outside the Georgia Capitol, saying a constitutional amendment would violate their civil rights. They held signs reading "Marriage is a civil right not a religious rite" and "We say no to marriage segregation."

    "How do they figure that it's not a civil rights issue?" said the Rev. Paul Turner, a gay pastor from Atlanta who helped organize last month's rally.

    "This is just a way for those conservative leadership in the black community to say, 'Look, this isn't a matter of civil rights because we're black and we didn't have a choice in being black.' And they think gays do, and that's not true," Turner said.

    Same-sex marriage is already illegal in Georgia, but supporters of the ban say the constitution needs to be changed to make sure a judge does not direct Georgia to recognize gay marriages performed in other states.

    Elsewhere Monday, Benton County, Ore., postponed issuing all marriage licenses - not just to same-sex couples - until a court decision is made on whether gay marriages in Oregon are legal. The county was set to become the second in the state to allow gay marriage before the decision.

    In New York, two Unitarian Universalist ministers facing criminal counts for officiating at same-sex weddings pleaded innocent. Kay Greenleaf and Dawn Sangrey were charged after marrying 13 gay couples during a public ceremony in New Paltz, about 80 miles outside New York City.

    Each misdemeanor count of solemnizing a marriage without a license carryies a fine of $25 to $500 or up to a year in jail, although the district attorney has said he does not expect to seek jail time.

    Meanwhile, in St. Paul, Minn., supporters of a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage gathered by the thousands in one of the largest Capitol rallies in memory.

    The crowd, waving hundreds of signs, filled the Capitol steps, the parking lot, the steps below that and spilled onto the lawn. The House is expected to pass the bill Wednesday, with a Senate committee planning to take up the measure later in the week.

  2. #2
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    "To redefine marriage, however, to suit the preference of those choosing alternative lifestyles is wrong."


    AMEN!

  3. #3
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    Originally posted by ELVIS
    "To redefine marriage, however, to suit the preference of those choosing alternative lifestyles is wrong."


    AMEN!
    The key word in that argument is choosing. The entire right wing position is based on the incorrect assumption that homosexuals choose to be gay. If you take that myth out of the equation, what do you have left?

    Anybody I know who is gay or lesbian has at least one other queer relative in their immediate family. Wouldn't that imply there are genetics involved? And if sexual orientation is predetermined by genetics, how the fuck can it be a choice?

    For you homophobes who want to remain in denial, ask yourself the following question: Could YOU choose to be gay?

    I've never met a man that I wanted to fuck. Not even David Lee Roth. It just ain't gonna happen, because I was born a "breeder". So if I can't choose to change my sexual orientation, its logical that others can't do so either.

    And once you throw the choice myth out, you are left with a civil rights issue.
    Eat Us And Smile

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    Originally posted by FORD
    The key word in that argument is choosing. The entire right wing position is based on the incorrect assumption that homosexuals choose to be gay. If you take that myth out of the equation, what do you have left?

    Anybody I know who is gay or lesbian has at least one other queer relative in their immediate family. Wouldn't that imply there are genetics involved? And if sexual orientation is predetermined by genetics, how the fuck can it be a choice?

    For you homophobes who want to remain in denial, ask yourself the following question: Could YOU choose to be gay?

    I've never met a man that I wanted to fuck. Not even David Lee Roth. It just ain't gonna happen, because I was born a "breeder". So if I can't choose to change my sexual orientation, its logical that others can't do so either.

    And once you throw the choice myth out, you are left with a civil rights issue.
    AMEN!

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    Originally posted by steve
    AMEN!
    Who's on top, Steve? You or your boyfriend? :p
    “If bullshit was currency, Joe Biden would be a billionaire.” - George W. Bush

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    Originally posted by FORD
    Anybody I know who is gay or lesbian has at least one other queer relative in their immediate family. Wouldn't that imply there are genetics involved? And if sexual orientation is predetermined by genetics, how the fuck can it be a choice?

    So if genetics are involved, we can call it a "genetic disease."

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    Originally posted by BigBadBrian
    So if genetics are involved, we can call it a "genetic disease."
    If you would also call being left handed or having red hair a "genetic disease", sure.

    However, in your ignorance, you DO bring up an interesting question...

    When homosexuality is proven to be genetic, will right wingers suddenly flip flop on abortion, out of the need to "stop those filthy sodomites from being born" ?

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    Originally posted by FORD
    If you would also call being left handed or having red hair a "genetic disease", sure.

    Stupid examples. Try again. You can do better.



    When homosexuality is proven to be genetic, will right wingers suddenly flip flop on abortion, out of the need to "stop those filthy sodomites from being born" ?

    We don't automatically abort Down's Syndrome children or those afflicted with your brand of retardation, do we?


  9. #9
    Jerry Falwell
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    Originally posted by FORD
    The key word in that argument is choosing. The entire right wing position is based on the incorrect assumption that homosexuals choose to be gay. If you take that myth out of the equation, what do you have left?

    Anybody I know who is gay or lesbian has at least one other queer relative in their immediate family. Wouldn't that imply there are genetics involved? And if sexual orientation is predetermined by genetics, how the fuck can it be a choice?

    For you homophobes who want to remain in denial, ask yourself the following question: Could YOU choose to be gay?

    I've never met a man that I wanted to fuck. Not even David Lee Roth. It just ain't gonna happen, because I was born a "breeder". So if I can't choose to change my sexual orientation, its logical that others can't do so either.

    And once you throw the choice myth out, you are left with a civil rights issue.
    I personnally believe that it is an issue of nurture not nature. If you are raised in a gay environment, then you obviously will have a different point of view on being gay and probably be more accepting to "explore" your sexuality. This doesn't mean that being gay is right though. It's just easier to accept as more people become deceived by satan. God did not design people to have sex with the same sex. So naturally, satan wants to confuse people and have them believe otherwise. Almost everything that is scewed in this world is because of your alter ego...lol, jk

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    So you are saying that someone raised in a gay or gay-friendly household would be more likely to be gay themselves?

    Well, again there's a genetics issue, since children of homosexuals would obviously inherit genes from their parents.

    And if it were strictly "nurture", then how do you explain Mary Cheney, Ron Reagan Jr, Candace Gingrich, John Schlafly, and other gay relatives of right wing families?

  11. #11
    wraytw
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    FORD:

  12. #12
    Jerry Falwell
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    Originally posted by FORD
    So you are saying that someone raised in a gay or gay-friendly household would be more likely to be gay themselves?

    Well, again there's a genetics issue, since children of homosexuals would obviously inherit genes from their parents.

    And if it were strictly "nurture", then how do you explain Mary Cheney, Ron Reagan Jr, Candace Gingrich, John Schlafly, and other gay relatives of right wing families?

    #1 Absolutely!.........
    #2 Do they inherit the genes?, or do they inherit their fathers/mothers sins? My personal belief system is why I have to side with the Bible and it's stance on the gay issue. Granted, it has been blown way out of proportion. Most Christians come down extremely hard on gays, to the point of pre-judging them. Yet, they(Cristians looking down their noses) still have pre-marital sex, curse on a daily basis, lust, etc... Not one sin is any worse than another...........
    #3 Again, I don't think that any of these people (though they may be good people) are truly on the up and up with G unit.lol So they are more likely to being led astray. I am not ignorant enough to think that gays only come from a gay family. But, I do think that it is easier to live that lifestyle if you surround yourself with people who won't call you out on the issue.

    I have a friend in prison now who went to the big house about two years ago. He was a professed and proven gay individual who has since renounced that lifestyle thanks to rehabilitation through God's word. He will tell you that it is not a genetic thing, rather a spiritual thing.

  13. #13
    Dr. Lulz
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    Well, if it's a genetic defect, we should be happy. Now that gays don't feel compelled to procreate in order to hide their homosity, we can rest assured that in a few generations, they'll be bred out, so to speak.

    Now if we can just hold off on cloning for that long.
    I've got the cure you're thinkin' of.

    http://i.imgur.com/jBw4fCu.gif

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    Now Doc, would that really be a good thing?

    Homosexuals have contributed a great deal to the world. Freddie Mercury & Rob Halford just to name two.

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    Originally posted by BigBadBrian
    Who's on top, Steve? You or your boyfriend? :p
    yo mama.
    :eek:

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    Originally posted by FORD
    Homosexuals have contributed a great deal to the world.
    So.. they still won't inherit the kingdom of heaven...

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    Famous people who "chose" to be gay

    Alexander the Great
    *Macedonian Ruler, 300 B.C.
    Socrates
    *Greek Philosopher, 400 B.C.
    Sappho
    *Greek Woman Poet, 600 B.C.
    Hadrian
    *Roman Emperor, 1st-2nd c.
    Richard the Lionhearted
    *English King, 12th c.
    Saladin
    *Sultan of Egypt and Syria
    Desiderius Erasmus
    *Dutch Monk, Philosopher
    Francis Bacon
    *English statesman, author
    Frederick the Great
    *King of Prussia
    Lord Byron
    *English poet, 18th c.
    Walt Whitman
    *U.S. poet, author, 19th c.
    Oscar Wilde
    *Irish author, 19th c.
    Marcel Proust
    *French author, 20th c.
    Colette
    *French author, 20th c.
    Gertrude Stein
    *U.S. poet, author, 20th c.
    Alice B. Toklas
    *U.S. author, 20th c.
    Federico Garcia Lorca
    *Spanish author, 20th c.
    Cole Porter
    *U.S. composer, 20th c.
    Virginia Woolf
    *English author, 20th c.
    Leonard Bernstein
    *U.S. composer, 20th c.
    Pope Julius III
    *1550-1555
    T.E. Lawrence
    *English soldier, author, 20th c.
    Jean Cocteau
    *French writer, director, 20th c.
    Charles Laughton
    *English actor, 20th c.
    Marguerite Yourcenar
    *Belgian author, 20th c.
    Tennessee Williams
    *U.S. Playwright, 20th c.
    James Baldwin
    *U.S. author, 20th c.
    Andy Warhol
    *U.S. artist, 20th c.
    Michelangelo
    *Italian artist, 15th c.
    Leonardo Da Vinci
    *Ital. Artist, scientist, 15th c.
    Christopher Marlowe
    *Eng. Playwright, 16th c.
    Herman Melville
    *U.S. author, 19th c.
    Horatio Alger, Jr.
    *U.S. author, 19th c.
    Tchaikovsky
    *Russian composer, 19th c.
    Willa Cather
    *U.S. author, 19th c.
    Amy Lowell
    *U.S. author, 19th & 20th c.
    E.M. Forster
    *English author, 20th c.
    John M. Keynes
    *English economist, 20th c.
    Ludwig Wittgenstein
    *Australian mathematician, 20th c.
    Bessie Smith
    *U.S. singer, 20th c.
    Noel Coward
    *English playwright, 20th c.
    Christopher Isherwood
    *English author, 20th c.
    Pier Paolo Pasolini
    *Italian film director, 20th c.
    Yukio Mishima
    *Japanese author, 20th c.
    Eleanor Roosevelt
    *U.S. stateswoman, 20th c.
    Julius Caesar
    *Roman Emperor, 100-44 B.C.
    Augustus Caesar
    *Roman Emperor
    Harvey Milk
    *U.S. politician, 20th c.
    Bayard Rustin
    *U.S. Civil Rights activist, 20th c.
    James I
    *English King, 16th-17th c.
    Queen Anne
    *English Queen, 18th c.
    Marie Antoinette
    *French Empress, 18th c.
    Melissa Etheridge
    *U.S. Rock Star, 20th c.
    Pope Benedict IX
    *1032-1044
    Mary Sarton
    *U.S. author, 20th c.
    Edna Ferber
    *U.S. author, 20th c.
    Elton John
    *English Rock Star, 20th c.
    Margaret Fuller
    *U.S. writer, educator, 20th c.
    Montezuma II
    *Aztec ruler, 16th c.
    Peter the Great
    *Russian Czar, 17th-18th c.
    Langston Hughes
    *U.S. author, 20th c.
    Pope John XII
    *955-964
    Madame de Stael
    *French writer, 17th-18th c.
    Martina Navratilova
    *U.S. tennis star, 20th c.
    Greg Louganis
    *U.S. Olympic swimmer, 20th c.
    Billie Jean King
    *U.S. tennis star, 20th c.
    Roberta Achtenburg
    *U.S. politician, 20th c.
    Barney Frank
    *U.S. Congressman, 20th c.
    Gerry Studds
    *U.S. Congressman, 20th c.
    Hans Christian Andersen
    *Danish author, 19th c.
    Tom Dooley
    *U.S. M.D. missionary, 20th c.
    J. Edgar Hoover
    *U.S. director of the FBI., 20th c.
    Frida Kahlo
    *Mexican artist, 20th c.
    Suleiman the Magnificent
    *Ottoman ruler, 15th c.
    Rock Hudson
    *U.S. actor, 20th c.
    Sor Juana Ines de la Cruz
    *Mexican author, 16th c.
    Ralph Waldo Emerson
    *U.S. author, 19th c.
    Candace Gingrich
    *Gay Rights activist, 20th c.
    Margarethe Cammermeyer
    *U.S. Army Colonel, 20th c.
    Zoe Dunning
    *U.S. Military Reservist, 20th c.
    Tom Waddel
    *U.S. M.D., Olympic star, 20th c.
    Kate Millet
    *U.S. author, 20th c.
    Janis Joplin
    *U.S. singer, 20th c.
    Rudolf Nuryev
    *Russian dancer, 20th c.
    Waslaw Nijinsky
    *Russian dancer, 20th c.
    Ernst Röhm
    *German Nazi leader, 20th c.
    Dag Hammerskjold
    *Swedish UN Secretary, 209th c.
    Aristotle
    *Greek philosopher, 384-322 B.C.
    Paula Gunn Allen
    *Native American author, 20th c.
    Angela Davis
    *U.S. political activist, 20th c.
    June Jordan
    *U.S. author, activist, 20th c.
    Rainer Maria Rilke
    *German poet, 20th c.
    James Dean
    *U.S. actor, 20th c.
    Montgomery Clift
    *U.S. actor, 20th c.
    Baron VonSteuben
    *German General, Valley Forge
    Edward II
    *English King, 14th c.

  18. #18
    Fuck this and fuck that
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    Notice this one...

    James I
    *English King, 16th-17th c.
    Recognize that name? It's on that Bible that many right wingers believe is the only "real" translation.

    You guys are thumping a FAG Bible

  19. #19
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    What's your point ??

    We know there are alot of homo's in the world...

  20. #20
    Fuck this and fuck that
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    I just think it's ironic that you use a gay man's Bible to bash gays.

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    Originally posted by FORD
    Alexander the Great
    *Macedonian Ruler, 300 B.C.
    Socrates
    *Greek Philosopher, 400 B.C.
    Sappho
    *Greek Woman Poet, 600 B.C.
    Hadrian
    *Roman Emperor, 1st-2nd c.
    Richard the Lionhearted
    *English King, 12th c.
    Saladin
    *Sultan of Egypt and Syria
    Desiderius Erasmus
    *Dutch Monk, Philosopher
    Francis Bacon
    *English statesman, author
    Frederick the Great
    *King of Prussia
    Lord Byron
    *English poet, 18th c.
    Walt Whitman
    *U.S. poet, author, 19th c.
    Oscar Wilde
    *Irish author, 19th c.
    Marcel Proust
    *French author, 20th c.
    Colette
    *French author, 20th c.
    Gertrude Stein
    *U.S. poet, author, 20th c.
    Alice B. Toklas
    *U.S. author, 20th c.
    Federico Garcia Lorca
    *Spanish author, 20th c.
    Cole Porter
    *U.S. composer, 20th c.
    Virginia Woolf
    *English author, 20th c.
    Leonard Bernstein
    *U.S. composer, 20th c.
    Pope Julius III
    *1550-1555
    T.E. Lawrence
    *English soldier, author, 20th c.
    Jean Cocteau
    *French writer, director, 20th c.
    Charles Laughton
    *English actor, 20th c.
    Marguerite Yourcenar
    *Belgian author, 20th c.
    Tennessee Williams
    *U.S. Playwright, 20th c.
    James Baldwin
    *U.S. author, 20th c.
    Andy Warhol
    *U.S. artist, 20th c.
    Michelangelo
    *Italian artist, 15th c.
    Leonardo Da Vinci
    *Ital. Artist, scientist, 15th c.
    Christopher Marlowe
    *Eng. Playwright, 16th c.
    Herman Melville
    *U.S. author, 19th c.
    Horatio Alger, Jr.
    *U.S. author, 19th c.
    Tchaikovsky
    *Russian composer, 19th c.
    Willa Cather
    *U.S. author, 19th c.
    Amy Lowell
    *U.S. author, 19th & 20th c.
    E.M. Forster
    *English author, 20th c.
    John M. Keynes
    *English economist, 20th c.
    Ludwig Wittgenstein
    *Australian mathematician, 20th c.
    Bessie Smith
    *U.S. singer, 20th c.
    Noel Coward
    *English playwright, 20th c.
    Christopher Isherwood
    *English author, 20th c.
    Pier Paolo Pasolini
    *Italian film director, 20th c.
    Yukio Mishima
    *Japanese author, 20th c.
    Eleanor Roosevelt
    *U.S. stateswoman, 20th c.
    Julius Caesar
    *Roman Emperor, 100-44 B.C.
    Augustus Caesar
    *Roman Emperor
    Harvey Milk
    *U.S. politician, 20th c.
    Bayard Rustin
    *U.S. Civil Rights activist, 20th c.
    James I
    *English King, 16th-17th c.
    Queen Anne
    *English Queen, 18th c.
    Marie Antoinette
    *French Empress, 18th c.
    Melissa Etheridge
    *U.S. Rock Star, 20th c.
    Pope Benedict IX
    *1032-1044
    Mary Sarton
    *U.S. author, 20th c.
    Edna Ferber
    *U.S. author, 20th c.
    Elton John
    *English Rock Star, 20th c.
    FORD
    *Jesus impersonator, Liberal clown, 21st c.
    Margaret Fuller
    *U.S. writer, educator, 20th c.
    Montezuma II
    *Aztec ruler, 16th c.
    Peter the Great
    *Russian Czar, 17th-18th c.
    Langston Hughes
    *U.S. author, 20th c.
    Pope John XII
    *955-964
    Madame de Stael
    *French writer, 17th-18th c.
    Martina Navratilova
    *U.S. tennis star, 20th c.
    Greg Louganis
    *U.S. Olympic swimmer, 20th c.
    Billie Jean King
    *U.S. tennis star, 20th c.
    Roberta Achtenburg
    *U.S. politician, 20th c.
    Barney Frank
    *U.S. Congressman, 20th c.
    Gerry Studds
    *U.S. Congressman, 20th c.
    Hans Christian Andersen
    *Danish author, 19th c.
    Tom Dooley
    *U.S. M.D. missionary, 20th c.
    J. Edgar Hoover
    *U.S. director of the FBI., 20th c.
    Frida Kahlo
    *Mexican artist, 20th c.
    Suleiman the Magnificent
    *Ottoman ruler, 15th c.
    Rock Hudson
    *U.S. actor, 20th c.
    Sor Juana Ines de la Cruz
    *Mexican author, 16th c.
    Ralph Waldo Emerson
    *U.S. author, 19th c.
    Candace Gingrich
    *Gay Rights activist, 20th c.
    Margarethe Cammermeyer
    *U.S. Army Colonel, 20th c.
    Zoe Dunning
    *U.S. Military Reservist, 20th c.
    Tom Waddel
    *U.S. M.D., Olympic star, 20th c.
    Kate Millet
    *U.S. author, 20th c.
    Janis Joplin
    *U.S. singer, 20th c.
    Rudolf Nuryev
    *Russian dancer, 20th c.
    Waslaw Nijinsky
    *Russian dancer, 20th c.
    Ernst Röhm
    *German Nazi leader, 20th c.
    Dag Hammerskjold
    *Swedish UN Secretary, 209th c.
    Aristotle
    *Greek philosopher, 384-322 B.C.
    Paula Gunn Allen
    *Native American author, 20th c.
    Angela Davis
    *U.S. political activist, 20th c.
    June Jordan
    *U.S. author, activist, 20th c.
    Rainer Maria Rilke
    *German poet, 20th c.
    James Dean
    *U.S. actor, 20th c.
    Montgomery Clift
    *U.S. actor, 20th c.
    Baron VonSteuben
    *German General, Valley Forge
    Edward II
    *English King, 14th c.
    Last edited by ELVIS; 03-23-2004 at 06:21 PM.

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    you wish

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    Originally posted by FORD
    I just think it's ironic that you use a gay man's Bible to bash gays.

    Explain yourself...

    BTW.. I never bashed gays...

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    Originally posted by ELVIS
    Explain yourself...

    BTW.. I never bashed gays...
    The explanation is spelled out above. King James, the guy who gave you the translation of the Bible most recognized by the majority of conservative churches, was a FLAMING QUEEN

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    It must be true.. FORD said it...

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    Originally posted by ELVIS
    It must be true.. FORD said it...

    http://www.christainhistory.com/arti...james_gay.html
    KING JAMES WAS GAY! Here's some excerpts from various sources
    Edited by Edward T. Babinski


    THE GAY-JV BIBLE

    How many folks know that King James (who commissioned the King James Bible and to whom it was dedicated) loved men and had sex with them? At the age of thirteen James fell madly in love with his male cousin Esme Stuart whom he made Duke of Lennox. James deferred to Esme to the consternation of his ministers. In 1582 James was kidnapped and forced to issue a proclamation against his lover and send him back to France.

    Later, James fell in love with a poor young Scotsman named Robert Carr. "The king leans on his [Carr's] arm, pinches his cheeks, smooths his ruffled garment, and when he looks upon Carr, directs his speech to others." (Thomas Howard, Earl of Suffolk, in a letter, 1611)

    Carr eventually ended the relationship after which the king expressed his dissatisfaction in a letter to Carr, "I leave out of this reckoning your long creeping back and withdrawing yourself from lying in my chamber, notwithstanding my many hundred times earnest soliciting you to the contrary...Remember that (since I am king) all your being, except your breathing and soul, is from me." (See The Letters of King James I & VI, ed., G. P. V. Akrigg, Univ. of Calif. Press, 1984. Also see Royal Family, Royal Lovers: King James of England and Scotland, David M. Bergeron, Univ. of Missouri Press, 1991)
    - Skip Church
    ____________________________

    King James' favorite male lovers were the Earl of Somerset and the Duke of Buckingham.
    - Ben Edward Akerly, The X-rated Bible
    ____________________________

    James's sexual orientation was so widely known that Sir Walter Raleigh joked about it in public saying "King Elizabeth" had been succeeded by "Queen James."
    - Catherine D. Bowen, The Lion and the Throne
    ____________________________

    King James 1 was a known homosexual who murdered his young lovers and victimized countless heretics and women. His cruelty was justified by his "divine right" of kings.
    - Otto J. Scott, James the First
    ____________________________

    Although the title page of The King James Bible boasted that it was "newly translated out of the original tongues," the work was actually a revision of The Bishop's Bible of 1568, which was a revision of The Great Bible of 1539, which was itself based on three previous English translations from the early 1500s. So, the men who produced the King James Bible not only inherited some of the errors made by previous English translators, but invented some of their own.

    Desiderius Erasmus was a "Christian humanist" who collected Greek (and Latin) New Testament manuscripts and compared and edited them, verse by verse, selecting what he considered to be the best variant passages, until he had compiled what came to be known as the "textus receptus." Early English translations of the Bible, like those mentioned above, were based on his "textus receptus." Erasmus was also a monk whom some historians believe engaged in homosexual activities.

    But without both King James and Erasmus, the most widely touted Bible in Christian history would never have been produced, the KJV (or shall we say, Gay-JV?) Bible.
    - Skip Church

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    COPYRIGHTED 1998 ALL RIGHTS RESERVED - MAY BE REPRINTED OR QUOTED FROM ONLY IF CREDIT IS GIVEN LIBERATED CHRISTIANS, MAILING ADDRESS IS SHOWN AND WE ARE SENT A COPY OF PUBLICATION.

    Thank a Homosexual for Your Bible (Actually more likely bisexual which is common in men and women.


    Any serious biography of King James I of England will talk about his homosexuality. He was completely open about it. Sources include the reports of foreign ambassadors, such as the Spanish ambassador writing home to say "the king goes to Newcastle today, much as another monarch went to Capri." Of course, you have to know about Tiberias at Capri to understand
    that.

    The printing of the King James Bible was sponsored by King James I of England. Until the printing of this version the scriptures were ". . . practically unknown either to clergy or to people." (1) In 1522 William Tindale, an Oxford scholar, considered translating the Bible into English. He met resistance and was exiled to Germany.

    In 1525 the New Testament, partially translated by Tindale, was printed in Cologne. During the same year 6,000 copies of the Testament were smuggled into England. By the authority of the church they were publicly burned. The Bible was the first book ever to be banned in England. (2) Driven from town to town William Tindale was eventually strangled in 1536 and his body burned.

    Queen Mary, the mother of James I and a devout Catholic, had commanded "that no manners of persons presume to bring into this real any messages., books, paper, etc. in the name of Martin Luther, John Calvin, Miles Coverdale, Erasmus, Tyndale etc. or any like books containing false doctrines against the Catholic faith".

    The Puritans complained to King James that the Bible available to them, the Douay version, was corrupt and begged for a new translation. King James complied and in 1611 the first printing was completed.

    King James I, at the age of 8, was able to translate aloud chapters of the Bible from Latin to French and then to English. James believed strongly that the Bible should be available to ordinary people, not just the clergy.

    At the age of thirteen James fell madly in love with his cousin Esmé Stuart whom he made Duke of Lennox. James deferred to Esmé to the consternation of his ministers. In 1582 James was kidnapped and forced to issue a proclamation against his lover and send him back to France.

    Despite his homosexual activities James later fell in love with and married Anne of Denmark with whom he had seven children.
    NOTES:
    1. William Tindale's Impact on the Translation of the King James Bible, by Pathricia Samuels.
    2. The Bible Banned, THE FILE ROOM, Muntadas and Randolph Street Gallery.
    3. King James I of Scotland and England, by Brian Barrow.
    ====================================
    King James was affectionately called "Queen James" by his friends. Being gay himself, he would know if the Hebrew and Greek condemned homosexuality.

    If indeed homosexuality was to be condemned Thomas Moore used the word "invert" in 1533. "Invert" was one of the words used to denote homosexuality.

    So by the time of the writing of the King James version there were several words in use which would have condemned homosexuality. They WERE NOT used! Ask yourself: If there were plain and simple words to mean homosexuality why weren't they used? Simply because homosexuality was not the issue in these passages that the religious right use. Almost every biblical scholar today will agree on that point.

    It wasn't until 1946 with the coming out of the Revised Standard Version (RSV) did we find the word homosexual in an English translation.

    If Plato, Erasmus, Michaelangelo, James I of England and others were gay throughout history, surely people knew about homosexuality long before the religious right decided that it was a sin.

    It is appalling to me that so many people follow fads and false teachers without even looking into the background of the things they are willing to condemn.

    When Mel White, who was a ghost writer for Jerry Falwell, Billy Graham, Pat Robertson and others, told them he is gay, and he tried for 25 years to "overcome" his homosexuality, you would think that they would be willing to listen to an "expert". But no, they act like they don't know him.

    Source: http://www.daily.iastate.edu/volumes...n_my_view.html
    ===============================================
    Queen James and His Courtiers
    A very long discussion of his homosexual lovers is at Queer History and Literature http://www.infopt.demon.co.uk/jamesi.htm
    ===============================================
    Also in research of Francis Bacon from South Bank University London (http://www.sbu.ac.uk/stafflag/francisbacon1561.html) These comments are made:

    In 1573 Francis Bacon and his elder brother Anthony (1558-1601), who was also gay, entered Trinity College, Cambridge. They then went to Gray's Inn, London, in 1576. In 1582 Francis was called to the bar and began a very successful law practice. He became a Member of Parliament in 1584, and he was appointed Queen Elizabeth I's Counsellor in 1591. James I (1566-1625) acceded to the thrown in 1603 and in the same year Francis Bacon was knighted. He became Solicitor General in 1607, Attorney General in 1613, and Lord High Chancellor in 1618. He was conferred the title of Baron Verulam in 1618, and of Viscount St. Albans in 1621.

    Bacon's personal friendship with King James I may have been a factor in his swift rise to power. James's homosexual loves are well-established, and he was known as "Queen James". However, Bacon had to be more discreet. His brother-in-law, Mervyn Touchet, was executed in 1631 for his homosexuality, as were two of Touchet's servants.
    ===============================================
    Some Christians however attack these facts and suggest that since King James was such a good Christian, he could not possibly be a homosexual. There are strong passions on both sides of the question regarding the sexual orientation of King James. For an outspoken view that he was not homosexual see:
    King James The VI of Scotland & The I of England Unjustly Accused? BY: STEPHEN A. COSTON, SR.

    But in my reading his arguments he is mostly tearing apart arguments he claims are used to say that King James was homosexual, which I've never seen used, and mostly ignores the points made in research I've found which indicates he was homosexual.

    He uses the same false approach, it seems to be, regarding Hebrew and Greek words using later middle age understandings of words, not what the words actually meant in biblical times.
    ===============================================
    Other interesting research I mostly agree with

    1. The Hebrew Old Testament clearly indicates that King David had a sexual relationship with Jonathan, the son of King Saul.

    2. The Hebrew Old Testament clearly documents a sexual relationship between the prophet Daniel and a man named Ashpenaz, and indicates that God put Daniel into that relationship.

    3. Much to the embarrassment of the Vatican, the Catholic theologian Boswell has uncovered proof that, up until the fourteenth century, the church was routinely performing wedding ceremonies for same-sex couples.

    4. The social tides in Europe began to turn against homosexuality around the thirteenth century. Up until that time, there was no organized opposition to homosexuality, either from society or from the church.

    5. The religious tide did not turn against homosexuals until after the social tides. The change in society's attitude toward homosexuals was the only reason the church stopped marrying them and began to persecute them.

    6. Boswell found that same-sex marriage continued in certain parts of eastern Europe until the nineteenth century, and that in a few villages, they still continue.

    7. King James, who ordered the English translation of the Bible which bears his name, was a homosexual, a fact of which the translators were well aware. This fact displeased them, but since he was the king, they could not express their displeasure openly. Although on the surface, they were careful to be certain that their translation flattered and pleased the king, they also used it to attack him in a way he could not fight.

    8. There is absolutely no condemnation of homosexuality in the Hebrew Old Testament.

    10. There is absolutely no condemnation of homosexuality in the Greek New Testament.

    11. All English translations (one of the earliest being 1611 AD, more than 200 years after the social tide turned against homosexuals, and more than 100 years after the church stopped performing most homosexual weddings) have been deliberately mistranslated to make it appear that God condemned homosexuality.

    12. The Hebrew and Greek scriptures never connected Soddom and Gomorrah with homosexuality. The idea that those cities were destroyed for homosexuality is a man-made notion and is unsupported by scriptures.

    13. The Greek New Testament, while not condemning homosexuality, does forbid people to attempt to alter their sexual orientation.

    14. Both the Greek and Roman Empires considered exclusive heterosexuality and exclusive homosexuality to be abnormal. They believed that all people should be bisexual.

    Source: National Gay Pentecostal Alliance Lighthouse Apostolic Church P.O. Box 1391 Schenectady, NY 12301-1391

    I don't fully understand the logic of the last point that all people should be bisexual. But the other points I strongly agree with based on my biblical research as do many others theologians, many of which are heterosexual.

    Back To Home Page
    Copyright © 1998, Liberated Christians, Inc.
    All Rights Reserved.

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    Liberated christians...



    Homosexuals fall under the term "fornicators" in the bible...


    1 Cor. 6: 9: Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind.

    1 Corinthians 6: 18: Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

    Acts 15: 20: But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.

    Galatians 5: 19: Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness.


    How does God React to Fornication?
    In Scripture fornication is linked with whoredom: both acts are strictly forbidden. Consider Yahweh's reaction when the men of Israel began to commit fornication with the women of Moab. Twenty four thousand Israelite men were slain by a strange plague sent by God. It was only the prompt action of Phinehas the grandson of Aaron the priest which stopped that awful slaughter. Here is the story.
    Numbers 25: 1: And Israel abode in Shittim, and the people began to commit whoredom with the daughters of Moab.
    2: And they called the people unto the sacrifices of their gods: and the people did eat, and bowed down to their gods.
    3: And Israel joined himself unto Baal-peor: and the anger of the LORD was kindled against Israel.
    4: And the LORD said unto Moses, Take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the LORD against the sun, that the fierce anger of the LORD may be turned away from Israel.
    5: And Moses said unto the judges of Israel, Slay ye every one his men that were joined unto Baal-peor.
    6: And, behold, one of the children of Israel came and brought unto his brethren a Midianitish woman in the sight of Moses, and in the sight of all the congregation of the children of Israel, who were weeping before the door of the tabernacle of the congregation.
    7: And when Phinehas, the son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron the priest, saw it, he rose up from among the congregation, and took a javelin in his hand;
    8: And he went after the man of Israel into the tent, and thrust both of them through, the man of Israel, and the woman through her belly. So the plague was stayed from the children of Israel.
    9: And those that died in the plague were twenty and four thousand.


    Prophetic Warnings to Fornicators
    The Bible contains many prophecies about the fate of fornicators. Popular opinion will count for nothing on the great Day of Judgement. Smug, knowing smiles will then be wiped from every face: and ignorance, for those who read this file at any rate, will cease to be an excuse.
    Rev.2: 14: But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
    15: So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.
    16: Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.

    Rev.2: 20: Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
    21: And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
    22: Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
    23: And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

    The cities of Sodom and Gomorrah were reduced to ashes for sexual sins. They are set forth as an example of how the Almighty God reacts to blatant disobedience.
    Jude 7: Even as Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

    The people who lived in Noah's time were also blatant sinners. They laughed at Noah's warnings. To them he was an old fool, prattling on about on-coming judgement. Free-love was in fashion at that time. Fornication, adultery, sodomy and sexual excess were the order of the day. But God was not pleased. He wiped out the ancient world because of their refusal to give up sin. It is the same today. Millions scoff at divine warnings. And yet, a terrifying slaughter of souls is just around the corner! Here is what Jesus Christ says about our generation:
    Matthew 24: 37: But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
    38: For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
    39: And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.


    Fornicators will not enter the Kingdom of God
    The Apostle Paul was also very clear in his stand against fornication, adultery and homosexuality. His prophetic warning to fornicators, adulterers and homosexuals reads as follows:
    1 Cor.6: 9: Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind. (homosexuals)


    Conclusion
    No matter how popular fornication is, do not be foolish enough to try it: and if you're already involved, then repent immediately and forsake this soul and society-destroying sin. Marriage is the best safeguard against fornication. Most certainly no one should entertain the idea that he/she can fornicate and get away with it. The Day of Judgement draws near. Keep that sobering fact in mind.
    1 Cor. 7: 2: Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

    1 Cor. 5: 9: I (Paul) wrote unto you in an epistle not to keep company with fornicators.

    Ephesians 5: 3: But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints.

    Romans 14: 10: ... for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
    11: For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
    12: So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.




    Your spew is weak FORD!


  30. #30
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    They're only "fornicators" because people like yourself won't let them get married.

    Therefore, it is YOU that is leading them into sin.

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    Oh.. I forgot.. you believe God allows gay marriage...

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    Fuck the Bible.

    Homo is not a religion or a race. It's a defect.

    In all machines and animals you have defects. Machines and animals are equipped with parts for specific functions. In the case of animals, natural instincts come into play, much like a computer that runs a machine, and animals procreate and eat an shit as evolution has designed then.

    Sometimes an animal is born defected. mentally, physically, whatever.

    But I don't believe homo is even a birth defect. (otherwise they'd have there own spot at the special olympics)

    I think it's an emotional defect, often spawned by abuse, of some kind as a child.

    These religious factions are right. And Christianity, and even the Old Testament do not condone homosexuality.

    It is quite obvious that religious groups, and races would not consider this group KIN to there struggles.

    They are probably offended.

    Homosexuality is not a credo, or a faith.

    It's unnatural, unhygienic, and disgusting to much of the population.

  33. #33
    Crazy Ass Mofo

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    Originally posted by FORD
    Notice this one...



    Recognize that name? It's on that Bible that many right wingers believe is the only "real" translation.

    You guys are thumping a FAG Bible
    i read the original greek buddy LOL

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    Hmmm...

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    I don't like Rob Halford.

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    I do...

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    Dr. Lulz
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    Homo.

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    Pussy!

  39. #39
    Jerry Falwell
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    Originally posted by FORD
    They're only "fornicators" because people like yourself won't let them get married.

    Therefore, it is YOU that is leading them into sin.
    Ford, Ford, Ford...
    My friend, your vision is so skewed. I'm sorry for this, but I must help you remove those Beer Goggles and see the Truth.lol

    The Bible refers to specific homosexual behaviors in a few passages. All references are negative.
    I will site one verse in specific that talks the most directly about homosexuality.
    Leviticus 18:22(NIV)… "Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable."
    If you think that the NIV version is changed from the literal meaning of Hebrew text, then you’re right. Here is a literal translation of Leviticus 18:22…"Two men must not engage in sexual activity on a woman's bed; it is ritually unclean. Even in the original text, two men lying together was “unclean”. In that day in age, the word unclean was an extreme word.

    Now, as for "Queen James". Just because he was gay, does not mean that God could not use him as a tool to order others to translate the Bible. You would be limiting God to say otherwise.
    Even if King James was gay, I seriously doubt that he liked the lifestyle he chose and probably felt somewhat guilty about it and figured that if he could do the rest of the english speaking world a favor by translating the Bible then his soul might be spared on merit of good works(not God works). Again, this is only assumption. But from what I've seen, you make your living in this forum from assumptions (yours or others).
    (starting to feel frisky this morning)

    PS-please explain how we are leading fornicators to sin. do we choose the path that they take in life? why should we change the laws of man to fit the wants of man, when God has clearly outlined right and wrong in His word. God understands our needs far more that even we do. satan tends to play on the emotional side of wants to twist people and lead them very astray.

  40. #40
    Fuck this and fuck that
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    Originally posted by pete
    Fuck the Bible.

    Homo is not a religion or a race. It's a defect.

    In all machines and animals you have defects. Machines and animals are equipped with parts for specific functions. In the case of animals, natural instincts come into play, much like a computer that runs a machine, and animals procreate and eat an shit as evolution has designed then.

    Sometimes an animal is born defected. mentally, physically, whatever.

    But I don't believe homo is even a birth defect. (otherwise they'd have there own spot at the special olympics)

    I think it's an emotional defect, often spawned by abuse, of some kind as a child.

    These religious factions are right. And Christianity, and even the Old Testament do not condone homosexuality.

    It is quite obvious that religious groups, and races would not consider this group KIN to there struggles.

    They are probably offended.

    Homosexuality is not a credo, or a faith.

    It's unnatural, unhygienic, and disgusting to much of the population.
    Are you from Westboro Kansas, by any chance

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