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Thread: Record exec confirms Steve Jobs' comment about "greedy" music industry

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    Record exec confirms Steve Jobs' comment about "greedy" music industry

    http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20050925-5348.html

    9/25/2005 5:29:15 PM, by Eric Bangeman

    Last week, Apple CEO Steve Jobs called the music industry "greedy" when it began pressuring Apple to raise prices of individual tracks above the current 99$B!q(B level at the iTunes Music Store. That didn't go over too well with some industry execs. Warner Music Group CEO Edgar Bronfman, Jr. all but confirmed it with his comments that flat-rate pricing was unfair.

    "There's no content that I know of that does not have variable pricing," said Mr. Bronfman at the Goldman Sachs Communacopia investor conference. "Not all songs are created equal$B!=(Bnot all time periods are created equal. We want, and will insist upon having, variable pricing."

    Bronfman seems to be jealous of Apple's success. He commented that the record labels are selling their songs because of Apple's innovation, but aren't getting a cut of the dough from Apple's hardware sales.

    "We are selling our songs through iPod, but we don$B!G(Bt have a share of iPod$B!G(Bs revenue," he said. "We want to share in those revenue streams. We have to get out of the mindset that our content has promotional value only.

    "We have to keep thinking how we are going to monetize our product for our shareholders," added Mr. Bronfman. "We are the arms supplier in the device wars between Samsung, Sony, Apple, and others."

    Following that line of reasoning, Apple should be more than happy to jack prices up at the iTMS and pass the additional income on to the labels. My, how things have changed from a couple of years ago, when the only action the industry could think of taking in the face of changing consumer behavior was suing music fans.

    Actually, Bronfman's strategy sounds kind of cool. I'm thinking Comcast and Earthlink should raise the price of Internet access a few bucks a month and send the dough our way. After all, people wouldn't be going online if there wasn't interesting content to read. You guys wouldn't mind, would you?

    From Bronfman's perspective, flat-rate pricing represents an undervaluing of its product. Historically, labels have priced newer and more popular releases higher, while saving the "deep discounts" for older albums gathering dust in the bargain bin. That kind of pricing may be appropriate to a mature market, but when iTMS hit the scene in 2003, both Apple and the recording industry agreed that a one-size-fits-all pricing strategy was needed in order to grow the nascent per-song download market.

    The 99$B!q(B per song pricing showed cracks before too long, as some albums ended up being priced at US$11.99 and higher. With iTMS having established that consumers like being able to buy lossy copies of individual songs, the industry now feels the time is ripe to change the per-track pricing model.

    Consumers' music-buying habits have changed as well. At the risk of revealing my weakness for a certain genre of television, a comment made by my fellow Chicagoan Marty Casey, a contestant on the recently concluded Rockstar: INXS, comes to mind. In response to a question from INXS, he said that the whole album wasn't as important anymore, that it was more about having those two or three hit songs. iTMS and other download services have enabled music lovers to order their music à la carte instead of having the full-CD extra value meal forced down their throats.

    As the music distribution industry continues to evolve, the labels envision a world where the preeminent download service doesn't exist primarily to sell digital music players. Instead, maximizing revenue streams from the music would come first, which would mean that consumers will have to pay extra for the privilege of listening to what they want, where they want. If price hikes or variable pricing does come along, at least Apple will have a leg up in the public relations war$B!=(Bthe company will be able to point its finger at Bronfman and say "he made us do it."
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    Yeah that's like the record companies complaining that they didn't get a cut of the profits Sony got when you bought a CD player from them.

    I think the problem is nobody is recording any music worth listening too. In fact, if this record executive pulled his head out of his ass he would see, recorded music is losing market share to the gaming industry. Kids would rather buy a Playstation game than a CD or MP3's. He should be tickled to death that Apple is selling lot's of MP3's because the cost is way cheaper than packaging a CD and distributing it. What's he crying about? He's still making money off the downloads.
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    Just not AS MUCH money, and that's the difference right there.
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    Bullshit Apple and the record companies
    $1 dollar for a song is a scam
    go to www.allofmp3.com and pay $2 dollars for a complete album in mp3.......and legal.........atleast in Russia
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    I used to use kazaa and winmx, but now that both of those are shut down, I guess I'll just have to go back to using PAWN SHOPS and buying used CDs at $3 a pop.

    I won't feed the RIAA another fucking dime unless I absolutely have to.

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    Well 75% of music now is wrap anyhow have'nt watched the music awards in 10 years all gansta rap ANIMAL music.It's all gone to shit.
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    That's a good point Bueno Bob.
    But I also won't feed record companies that promotes stupid music (like Britney, Hillary and all those air heads) instead of Heavy Metal.
    At least Russia is using this money for the heavy metal needed in the construction of weapons to sell them to the terrorist that later will attact us..........but is a kind of heavy metal

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    LMAO!!!

    FUCK THE RIAA!!!


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    EDONKEY2000!!!!, Fuck the RIAA, What have they done for music latley? Lame-ass rappers and SUING FUCKI9NG 12 YEAR OLD GIRLS!!!!, And you know what else i do I download Music Videos because fucking MTV doesn't fucking show 'em anymore.
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    All my money goes into guitars, effects, and amps. I make my own music. I would rather listen to myself play a song badly than Britney or Rap.

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    Originally posted by Hardrock69

    FUCK THE RIAA!!!

    Those dumbfucks could sell back-katalogues at 50 Cent a song

    with decent quality mp3´s and would earn lot´s of money.

    But they just do NOT.

    FUCK THE RIAA agree
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    Is there any good P2P ware that hasn't been shut down yet? For free, preferably?

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    acqusition on os-x

    http://www.acquisitionx.com/
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    THere is a new one that is in beta testing stages right now that will be released by early 2006. It is free (like all the others) but users CANNOT be traced...

    I can't recall the name of it right now though...

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    Good news!

    Seriously, I don't see any difference between downloading something for free and buying it out of a pawn shop for $3, other than cutting the pawn shop out of the deal. 99% of the musicians I listen to don't give a shit anyway, because I support them by buying T shirts, going to concerts, et al...signed musicians don't generally make anything off of album sales, anyway, any signed musician's bread and butter comes from touring and merchandise...I'd imagine Lounge Machine would back me up on that.

    Christ, Bruce Dickinson was telling people to download the whole fucking "Dance of Death" album during the Death on the Road tour - hell, that's virtually encouraging people to do it.

    The logic to me is: why spend $17.99 on a new CD when I can wait for two weeks, pick it up for $3 at a pawn shop, burn it, turn around and sell it on eBay for $10?

    Defeating that, why bother to pay the pawn shop either?

    I don't see any real difference unless the RIAA gets some kind of court order preventing any and all pawn shops in the United States from buying or selling used music since they're not seeing any profit off of that, either...then I guess it'd be a different story. The only person I've ever heard of that's of any importance who was whining about people buying discs out of pawn shops used was Garth Brooks back around '93 or so, and I seriously doubt he was concerned about where his next meal was coming from.
    Last edited by bueno bob; 09-28-2005 at 12:41 PM.

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    Okay kids....here is a copyright violation....

    In the new issue of PC Magazine, this dude who has a column hits the nail square on the head.

    The title of the article is "The New Music Download Download Battle"

    I will only post a few paragraphs from the article:

    "Let me make it clear. Apple sells a song on iTunes for 99 cents. Apple pays for the Net connection and the costs of running a huge server farm. It also pays for the development costs and the design and maintenance of the web site. Then it pays record companies 70 cents for each song it sells for 99 cents. For their check, the record companies do not have to do any manufacturing, distribution, or pay any spiffs. And they don't have to deal with any returns. Piracy also seems beaten by the security measures built into the system. And they still complain. Now I am getting suspicious.

    Let me tell you what I think they are up to. The goal is to kill iTunes and any online service not directly owned by a label. The record companies don't like these services for a number of reasons, not the least of which is they work, proving that downloading music was a good idea from the beginning. I'm sure that still irks them, since it represents a decade-old "I Told You So!".

    I'm not convinced the record companies' biggest concern is pride, though. I think it's bookkeeping. Just look at the history of the recording business and the numerous lawsuits and scandals involving various labels and the artists who worked for them. The artists claimed-often successfully-that the record companies didn't pay all the royalties that were due them. But to prove these accusations required investigative auditing, an expensive proposition.

    It must have dawned on someone in the recording industry that they don't need a third party between the record labels and the artists. The third party, in this case Apple, will have computerized data-real and valid numbers-that is not controlled by the record labels. Numbers that could easily be carted out in a court case. Numbers that could show relative popularity and that may equate to, say, album sales at Tower Records. Too many numbers, especially in the hands of a third party, can't be good.

    When the download services began to rock, the checks in the mail were great and everyone was surprised. Suddenly all sorts of initiatives popped up, and someone woke up and noticed that all these middlemen with computerized numbers were surrounding the business. It wouldn't be as easy to screw over the artists with this independent accounting everywhere."

    I added the bold at the end there.
    That was only about half the editorial, but very relevant.

    Many peeps even on this site have lauded the Internet for making it possible for artists to sell their music online and CUTTING OUT THE CRIMINAL MAJOR RECORD LABELS ENTIRELY.

    I have always championed fucking the major labels in the ass.

    It is about time they got what they fucking deserve, after decades of screwing their artists, and raping the consumers.

    Hooray for Steve Jobs for a job well done!!

    Last edited by Hardrock69; 09-28-2005 at 09:19 PM.

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    Originally posted by bueno bob
    Is there any good P2P ware that hasn't been shut down yet? For free, preferably?
    EDonkey2000, Limewire

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    Those are ok if ya wanna get busted...

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    www.allofmp3.com
    $.19 per song

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    anything cheaper and secure..........your radio receiver connected to a recorder...

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    LMFAO!

    No shit!

    And here the labels waste millions researching copy protection on cds....

    Line out of boombox to input of PC.

    Click "Record".

    Done.

    Rock Out!

    Next thing you know it will be like 2112...where the Major Labels will try to outlaw music entirely....

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    They are exterminating music right now.....they stop signing good bands and keep promoting and signing music like Britney, Hillary, 50 cents, Eminem etc.

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    Originally posted by bastardog
    They are exterminating music right now.....they stop signing good bands and keep promoting and signing music like Britney, Hillary, 50 cents, Eminem etc.
    It's a here today gone tomorrow world anymore, musically. Nobody's interested in bands that will last 20-30 years and sell to X amount of people each time around, realistically...RCA, Jive, WB, Sony, everybody's looking for the next RIGHT NOW act that's going to go out and sell 30,000,000,000 albums in the first week, so that they can have that revenue right then...and when said artist is forgotten about in 5-8 years (can you say Britney? I can), they've already made the bank and have been busy for the last 3-6 years looking for the replacement, as [Britney]'s career slowly dies from public (and artist) apathy.

    All I can about that is - support your local bands.

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    Long live Fast Takers!!!!!!!
    a local band with a low low low budget album
    They ar going to do the opening for Megadeth in Puerto Rico and will do a private presentation for a group of friends (including me ofcourse) in a private house with a ot of girls + a lot of beer + a pool = ?

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    Originally posted by bueno bob
    It's a here today gone tomorrow world anymore, musically. Nobody's interested in bands that will last 20-30 years and sell to X amount of people each time around, realistically...
    They're hardly interested in 20-30 months.

    I think the future will be bands giving away most of their music and making money on live shows and merchandising. Since they won't need to pay record companies 90% then they'll still make as much if not more.

    Recording costs are being slashed by new technology, distribution will be virtually free via the net as will promotion.

    The record companies are fucked long term and noone else cares...

    Cheers!

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    Originally posted by Seshmeister
    They're hardly interested in 20-30 months.

    I think the future will be bands giving away most of their music and making money on live shows and merchandising. Since they won't need to pay record companies 90% then they'll still make as much if not more.

    Recording costs are being slashed by new technology, distribution will be virtually free via the net as will promotion.

    The record companies are fucked long term and noone else cares...

    Cheers!

    I really do hope that ends up being the case. I myself used to make it a weekend ritual to waste my days going into all the different music stores, looking through CDs, buying a bunch of shit that looked cool.

    Not anymore. I can't even go into a Wherehouse (or anyplace else, for that matter) without feeling sick to my stomach. There's really no reason to anymore, unless you're looking for the same shit everybody else is and want to spend $16.99 on it...the selection sucks, nobody carries anything anymore - unless it's 400+ copies of the new 50 Cent album you're looking for, might as well forget it.

    Used to be that I could go into any music store and pick up a new album from...I don't know, say Yngwie, without any problems. But in this day and age, it ain't gonna happen. I've been looking for older Electric Wizard albums, and the debut album from Debris Inc., for MONTHS and the stores just won't carry them...and I'm not the sort to plunk down $10.00 and wait 7 weeks for delivery to the store, so...thank God for eBay...

    It doesn't help that most of the bands I still listen to are forced onto indie labels these days, due to the fact that the majors won't bother to distribute them or promote them and then turn around and go "See? They don't sell!" after the album (by anyone) fails. It seems self defeating if you ask me, but I guess that's why I don't work for a record company...

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    Originally posted by flappo
    acqusition on os-x

    http://www.acquisitionx.com/
    I've had enuff aff U and apple, flapple..

    flapple, listen t2o mmme..

    STeve jobs is mmean spiriTITed..

    and gr8ly INSANE..

    Jobs said, "The PPC is better faster stronger just plain cooler Intel now delivers better performace per watt."

    Yeh, dat's why my Pentium 4 M laptop feels slower and hoter than my Mac Mini.

    DAT' INSANE!

    flapple, go t2o your room..

    and, yoo can come out when yoo've reelized wot yoo've done WRONG!


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    That is why I got off into bootleg-land.

    A band may release one studio album, and that is all the sheeple will ever hear. But if they do a 60-city tour, there will be bootlegs of the live shows.

    I have friends who have entire tours by Kiss & Aerosmith from the early 90s.

    It is much more difficult these days to find quality music on a major label.

    As you guys have rightfully pointed out, most of the stuff Major Labels dish out these days is fucking glossy, over-produced bullshit.

    It is frustrating to those who are old enough to remember when they used to actually sell good music.

    But then it is balanced out by the fact that due to the internet, we can can find more music to choose from than we could back in the day. We just have to search harder for that quality stuff.

    Once again, due to the Internet, we are able to meet and interact with people who have similar or identical musical taste, so it is easier to get word of mouth recommendations from friends.

    And the Major Labels wonder why they are losing money.

    It is simple. They wish to have a scapegoat, so they point the finger at music downloads.

    What they do not want anyone to understand, is that their fucked up business model (ripping off the consumer AND the artist) combined with releasing a never-ending stream of crap, is CAUSING many people to actively seek out other avenues with which to find their music.

    And, of course, with iTunes and other music services that are independant of the Major Labels, consumers are no longer dependant on the Major labels as their only source of music.

    All of you reading this right now must understand one thing:

    That box sitting there on your desk or on the floor under it...your computer...

    THAT is a record company!

    1. Office software - you can use it to pormote your artists, create artwork for your releases as well as the Jewel case inserts and CD labels themselves (heck you can get certain Epsom printers that will print directly on a cd for a professional look). All the standard stuff like email, word-processing, etc. can be done with ease for standard office processes.

    2. Audio Software - you can now record an album on your computer. Yes there is much knowledge required to turn your computer into a Digital Audio Workstation...it has to have a lot of power basically (if you have a tweaked gaming machine that will certainly do the trick). And you can even find freeware programs to create multi-track recordings. Of course, if you want to shell out the big bucks you can get EXTREMELY sophisticated multi-track software like Steinberg Nuendo, CakeWalk Sonar, ProTools LE, etc.

    And of course you can get tons of plugins to use for effects, mastering, etc.

    3. Video Software - You now have the capabilities to create your own music videos as well. Lotsa cool programs like Adobe Premier, Sony Vegas, etc. can be bought that will enable people to capture and edit video, and turn out a finished product that can rival anything seen on MTV.

    And of course if you have the connections, you can find this stuff in the Internet Underworld for the price of a few minutes of download time, just like music or movies.

    But of course the best thing is to buy the stuff. For all the right reasons.


    So everyone on the planet who owns a computer has a potential Record Label/Movie Studio right there on their desktop.

    Hooray for technology...now the creation and distribution of Music is no longer restricted to the Major Labels.

    So the CEO of Sony/Epic can no longer afford to buy a new Maserati...or he is forced to turn his summer home in the Hamptons into a timeshare....

    Well boo-fucking-hoo...cry me a fucking river...
    Last edited by Hardrock69; 10-05-2005 at 10:40 AM.

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    Originally posted by Hardrock69
    Once again, due to the Internet, we are able to meet and interact with people who have similar or identical musical taste, so it is easier to get word of mouth recommendations from friends....

    And, let's not forget, the internet also allows us to be "owned", "gay", and "destroyed".

    So the CEO of Sony/Epic can no longer afford to buy a new Maserati...or he is forced to turn his summer home in the Hamptons into a timeshare....Well boo-fucking-hoo...cry me a fucking river...


    No shit. Must be a real rough life to be in that position. Perhaps we should start a charity fund.
    All in all, though, excellent points, HR. My bootleg collection is almost as massive as my actual official collection, truth be told.

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    Same here. And now I can look forward to years of transferring the stuff I have on cassette onto cd.

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    excellent thread

    in fact , so good , i'm stickying it !


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    Originally posted by Hardrock69
    Same here. And now I can look forward to years of transferring the stuff I have on cassette onto cd.
    At one point, I had over 50 bootlegged Van Halen cassettes, unfortunately, over the years, they seem to have been "misplaced" with several people who borrowed them....egads...

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    In 1979 I had a small plastic Army Medic box stolen out of my car while I was in a movie theater.

    God Curse the bastard that did it.

    I lost the following concerts that I personally recorded:

    11/4/76 - ZZ Top Wichita Kansas on the Fandango Tour - The show that caused me to decide to play electric guitar. Opening act Fools.

    I recorded the entire show.

    1/13/77 - Kiss - Wichita, Kansas Rock And Roll Over Tour with Uriah Heep opening. I recorded the entire show.

    5/1/77 - The Doobie Bros with Foreigner opening - Wichita Kansas. It was Foreigner's first tour. There was no barrier in front of the stage..so I stuck my mic in a crack between two sections of stage so it just peeked above the stage floor...sound quality was kickass...I taped the entire concert...

    July 1978 - Foghat..Seattle Center Coliseum - On their Live album tour I believe.

    Recorded Foghat only. I do not remember who the opener was...

    Sept. 15, 1978 - Seattle Center Coliseum Boston with Spambo The Flatulent opening. Extremely high quality recording. I recorded both acts. As the tape was stolen with the rest in early 1979, I snuck a recorder in again when they played Wichita, Kansas in March of 1979. I did not record Spambo again. I did record Boston, and I still have the recording, and earlier this year digitally remastered it and transferred it to CD.



    I learned a valuable and costly lesson in 1979. Ever since then, my bootlegs (especially the ones I have recorded) do not EVER leave the house.

    I have recorded several other shows:

    Deep Purple - January 1985 The second show on their Perfect Strangers U.S. Tour.

    Snuck a Shure 57 in and got their entire set except for the final encore. Also was too close to the PA, so the sound is distorted. I have yet to transfer to CD or remaster it.

    Operation Rock 'n' Roll - July 12th, 1991 - Irvine Meadows Amphitheater, Irvine, CA

    5 bands that day. In order:
    Metal Church
    Dangerous Toys
    Motorhead
    Alice Cooper
    Judas Priest

    I recorded all 5 bands in their entirety. The recordings could be graded "A". The mic cable I used was fucked, and during Motorhead and Priest I had a few dropouts.

    To this date I have remastered the Priest set and transferred to CD twice. The second time I reconstructed some dropouts using other sources of the same show. The show was filmed for ABC's In Concert '91.

    Another show I recorded in 1991 was a taping of In Concert '91 at a theater in Pasadena. Only bands I remember were Little Ceaser, Lynch Mob and Roxette, though there were at least 2 or 3 other acts on the bill.

    I think I still have the Little Ceasar tape. I DO have the Lynch Mob tape. I did not bother taping Roxette.

    I have yet to remaster or convert to CD.

    That was the last show I ever taped. I decided a) I do not like having to worry about being busted, and b) I would rather kick back and enjoy the show, and c) these days it is very likely someone is taping the show anyway, so I just try to find a copy, or at least a show from the same tour.

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    No amount of studio wizardry can compete with a great band playing live. I say, pull a buzz, rock out, and press some pussy after the show.

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