Cheney's top aide quits after indictment

[Hardrock69]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/10/...obe/index.html

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff, resigned on Friday after a federal grand jury indicted him on charges related to the CIA leak investigation.

Libby was indicted on one count of obstruction of justice, two counts of perjury and two counts of making false statements, court documents show.

The indictments were not related to the actual leak of operative Valerie Plame Wilson's name. (Read the full text of the indictment)

These indictments are the first in a nearly two-year investigation. Special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald has scheduled a 2 p.m. ET news conference. (Watch possible ramifications of an indictment -- 2:49)

A news release by Fitzgerald said Libby allegedly lied "about how and when in 2003 he learned and subsequently disclosed to reporters then-classified information concerning the employment of Valerie Wilson by the Central Intelligence Agency."

It said Libby "lied to FBI agents who interviewed him" in October and November 2003; committed perjury "while testifying under oath before the grand jury" in March 2004; and "engaged in obstruction of justice by impeding the grand jury's investigation into the unauthorized disclosure -- or 'leaking' -- of Valerie Wilson's affiliation with the CIA to various reporters in the spring of 2003."

"When citizens testify before grand juries they are required to tell the truth," Fitzgerald said in the statement. "Without the truth, our criminal justice system cannot serve our nation or its citizens."

There was no immediate response from Libby to the charges. His attorneys have previously denied that he was guilty of any criminal conduct.

Meanwhile, President Bush's top political strategist Karl Rove will not be indicted Friday by the federal grand jury investigating the leak, sources close to the investigation tell CNN. But, the sources said, Rove is not out of legal jeopardy as the matter is still under investigation. (Full story)

Lawyers involved in the case have told CNN that Fitzgerald is focusing on whether Rove committed perjury. Rove testified four times in front of the grand jury.
Impact of indictments

David Gergen, a former adviser to presidents Nixon, Ford, Reagan and Clinton, told CNN's "Larry King Live" that indictments in the case could have an enormous impact on the Iraq war.

"Because if there are indictments, it will not only be people close to the president, the vice president of the United States, but they will raise questions about whether criminal acts were perpetrated to help get the country into war."
'No decision'

Rove's attorney Robert Luskin issued a statement Friday that Fitzgerald "has advised Mr. Rove that he has made no decision about whether or not to bring charges."

"Mr. Rove will continue to cooperate fully with the Special Counsel's efforts to complete the investigation," Luskin's statement said. "We are confident that when the Special Counsel finishes his work, he will conclude that Mr. Rove has done nothing wrong."

As Rove departed his home in Washington Friday morning, he told reporters, "I am going to have a great Friday and a fantastic weekend and hope you do too."

Libby's indictment came at a time when Bush's approval ratings already are at a low ebb.

This week alone the president's embattled Supreme Court nominee, Harriet Miers, withdrew, and the number of U.S. military deaths in the Iraq war surpassed 2,000.

Bush suggested at the beginning of the investigation that he would fire anyone on his staff who was involved in the leak.

He appeared to set a higher standard in July, saying, "If someone committed a crime, they will no longer work in my administration." (Full story)

The event that triggered the legal and political quagmire that has put the White House on edge was a syndicated newspaper column by Robert Novak, published on July 14, 2003, about Joe Wilson.

A week earlier, Wilson, a retired U.S. diplomat, publicly claimed that Bush administration officials, intent on building a case to depose Iraqi dictator Saddam Hussein, hyped unsupported claims that Hussein sought to buy uranium for nuclear weapons from Niger.

Novak, who also is a CNN contributor, was writing about the CIA's decision to send Wilson to the African nation in February 2002 to investigate the claims, which later wound up in Bush's 2003 State of Union address.

About midway through his column, Novak noted that Wilson "never worked for the CIA, but his wife, Valerie Plame, is an agency operative on weapons of mass destruction."

An angry Wilson accused administration officials of deliberately leaking his wife's identity as a CIA operative -- thus ending her career as an undercover agent -- to retaliate against him for going public with his criticism.

Both Rove and Libby have denied leaking Plame's name.

Deliberately disclosing the identity of a CIA operative can be a crime, and Fitzgerald, the U.S. attorney in Chicago, was named in September 2003 as a special prosecutor to investigate after then-Attorney General John Ashcroft recused his office to avoid any conflict of interest.
Reporters subpoenaed

Trying to pin down the details of discussions between administration officials and reporters about Plame, Fitzgerald subpoenaed Washington journalists.

Two of them -- Judith Miller of The New York Times and Matthew Cooper of Time magazine -- sought a ruling from the U.S. Supreme Court to protect their confidential sources but the court refused to take up the cases.

Facing jail for contempt of court, Cooper testified after accepting a waiver of his confidentiality pledge from a source -- who turned out to be Rove.

Cooper later disclosed that Rove told him in July 2003 that Plame was a CIA agent involved in weapons of mass destruction issues, although Rove never used her name and never indicated she had covert status.

Cooper said he later asked Libby "if he had heard anything about Wilson's wife sending her husband to Niger," and Libby said he had, which Cooper said he took as confirmation of Rove's information.

Miller went to jail for 85 days but was released after her source -- Libby -- assured her that he had no objections to her testifying.

Dick Cheney's name surfaced in the case earlier this week. The New York Times reported that notes of a conversation indicated Cheney gave Plame's name to Libby ---which appears to contradict Libby's grand jury testimony that he first heard Plame's name from reporters.

Cheney's office had no comment, and the White House would neither confirm nor deny the Times report.

CNN's Kelli Arena, Dana Bash, John King and Kevin Bohn contributed to this report.

[FORD]

Full text of the indictment can be read here

[FORD]

Office of Special Counsel
Patrick J. Fitzgerald
Chicago Office: Dirksen Federal Building Washington Office: Bond Federal Building
Special Counsel 219 South Dearborn Street, Fifth Floor 1400 New York Avenue NW, Ninth Floor
Chicago, Illinois 60604 Washington, DC 20530
Please address all correspondence to the Washington Office

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE PRESS CONTACT:
FRIDAY OCTOBER 28, 2005 Randall Samborn (312) 613-6700
WWW.USDOJ.GOV/USAO/ILN/OSC (312) 353-5318

WHITE HOUSE OFFICIAL I. LEWIS LIBBY INDICTED ON OBSTRUCTION OF
JUSTICE, FALSE STATEMENT AND PERJURY CHARGES RELATING TO LEAK
OF CLASSIFIED INFORMATION REVEALING CIA OFFICER’S IDENTITY

WASHINGTON – Senior White House official I. Lewis Libby was indicted today on
obstruction of justice, false statement and perjury charges for allegedly lying about how and when in
2003 he learned and subsequently disclosed to reporters then-classified information concerning the
employment of Valerie Wilson by the Central Intelligence Agency. Libby was charged with one count
of obstruction of justice, two counts of perjury and two counts of making false statements in a five-count
indictment returned today by a federal grand jury as its term expired, announced Justice Department
Special Counsel Patrick J. Fitzgerald.

The defendant, also known as “Scooter” Libby, has served since January 20, 2001, as Assistant
to the President, Chief of Staff to the Vice President, and Assistant to the Vice President for National
Security Affairs. Libby, 55, will be arraigned at a later date in U.S. District Court for the District of
Columbia.

The charges allege that Libby lied to FBI agents who interviewed him on October 14 and
November 26, 2003; committed perjury while testifying under oath before the grand jury on March 5
and March 24, 2004; and engaged in obstruction of justice by impeding the grand jury’s investigation
into the unauthorized disclosure – or “leaking” – of Valerie Wilson’s affiliation with the CIA to various
reporters in the spring of 2003.

Beginning in late May 2003, Libby allegedly began acquiring information about a 2002 trip to
the African country of Niger by Joseph Wilson, a former United States Ambassador and career State
Department official, to investigate allegations concerning efforts by the former government of Iraq to
acquire uranium yellowcake, a processed form of uranium ore. The CIA decided on its own initiative
to send Wilson to Niger after an inquiry to the CIA by the Vice President concerning certain intelligence
reporting. Wilson orally reported his findings to the CIA upon his return. Subsequently, Libby allegedly
lied about information he discussed about the CIA employment of Wilson’s wife, Valerie Plame Wilson,
in conversations Libby had in June and July 2003 with three news reporters – Tim Russert of NBC News,
Matt Cooper of Time magazine, and Judith Miller of The New York Times.

Prior to July 14, 2003, Valerie Wilson’s employment status was classified. Prior to that date, her
affiliation with the CIA was not common knowledge outside the intelligence community. Disclosure
of classified information about an individual’s employment by the CIA has the potential to damage the
national security in ways that range from preventing that individual’s future use in a covert capacity, to
compromising intelligence-gathering methods and operations, and endangering the safety of CIA
employees and those who deal with them, the indictment states.

“When citizens testify before grand juries they are required to tell the truth,” Mr. Fitzgerald said.
“Without the truth, our criminal justice system cannot serve our nation or its citizens. The requirement
to tell the truth applies equally to all citizens, including persons who hold high positions in government.
In an investigation concerning the compromise of a CIA officer’s identity, it is especially important that
grand jurors learn what really happened. The indictment returned today alleges that the efforts of the
grand jury to investigate such a leak were obstructed when Mr. Libby lied about how and when he
learned and subsequently disclosed classified information about Valerie Wilson,” he added.
Mr. Fitzgerald announced the charges with John C. Eckenrode, Special Agent-in-Charge of the
Philadelphia Field Office of the FBI and the lead agent in the investigation. The Washington Field
Office and the Inspection Division of the FBI assisted in the investigation.

The indictment alleges that Libby had frequent access to classified information and frequently
spoke with officials of the U.S. intelligence community and other government officials regarding
sensitive national security matters. With his responsibilities for national security matters, Libby held
security clearances giving him access to classified information. Libby was obligated by federal criminal
statute, regulations, executive orders, and a written non-disclosure agreement not to disclose classified
information to unauthorized persons, and to properly safeguard classified information against
unauthorized disclosure.

According to the indictment, on September 26, 2003, the Department of Justice and the FBI
began a criminal investigation into the possible unauthorized disclosure of classified information
regarding Valerie Wilson’s CIA affiliation to various reporters in the spring of 2003. In January 2004,
the grand jury investigation began examining possible violations of criminal laws prohibiting disclosing
the identity of covert intelligence personnel (The Intelligence Identities Protection Act), improperly
disclosing national defense information, making false statements to government agents, and perjury. A
major focus of the grand jury investigation was to determine which government officials had disclosed
to the media prior to July 14, 2003, information concerning Valerie Wilson’s CIA affiliation, and the
nature, timing, extent, and purpose of such disclosures, as well as whether any official made such a
disclosure knowing that Valerie Wilson’s employment by the CIA was classified information.

The over-arching obstruction of justice count alleges that while testifying under oath before the
grand jury on March 5 and March 24 2004, Libby knowingly and corruptly endeavored to influence,
obstruct and impede the grand jury’s investigation by misleading and deceiving the grand jury as to
when, and the manner and means by which, he acquired, and subsequently disclosed to the media,
information concerning the employment of Valerie Wilson by the CIA. The obstruction count alleges
that Libby made the following materially false and intentionally misleading statements:

< When Libby spoke with Tim Russert of NBC on or about July 10, 2003, Russert
asked Libby if Libby knew that Wilson’s wife worked for the CIA, and told
Libby that all the reporters knew it; and Libby was surprised to hear that Wilson’s
wife worked for the CIA; when, in fact, Libby knew Russert did not ask Libby
if Libby knew that Wilson’s wife worked for the CIA, nor did Russert tell Libby
that all the reporters knew it. And, at the time of this conversation, Libby was
well aware that Wilson’s wife worked at the CIA and Libby had participated in
multiple prior conversations concerning this topic;

< Libby advised Matt Cooper of Time magazine on or about July 12, 2003, that he
had heard that other reporters were saying that Wilson’s wife worked for the CIA,
and further advised him that Libby did not know whether this assertion was true;
when, in fact, Libby did not advise Cooper during that conversation that Libby
had heard other reporters were saying that Wilson’s wife worked for the CIA, nor
did Libby advise him that Libby did not know whether this assertion was true.
Rather, Libby confirmed to Cooper, without qualification, that Libby had heard
that Wilson’s wife worked at the CIA; and

< Libby advised Judith Miller of The New York Times on or about July 12, 2003,
that he had heard that other reporters were saying that Wilson’s wife worked for
the CIA but Libby did not know whether that assertion was true; when, in fact,
Libby did not advise Miller during that conversation that Libby had heard other
reporters were saying that Wilson’s wife worked for the CIA, nor did Libby
advise her that Libby did not know whether this assertion was true.
Among the events leading up to these conversations, on January 28, 2003, President Bush
delivered his State of the Union address which included sixteen words asserting that “The British
government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from
Africa.”

On May 6, 2003, The New York Times published a column by Nicholas Kristof which disputed
the accuracy of the “sixteen words” in the State of the Union address. The column reported that,
following a request from the Vice President’s office for an investigation of allegations that Iraq sought
to buy uranium from Niger, an unnamed former ambassador was sent to Niger in 2002 to investigate the
allegations. According to the column, the ambassador reported back to the CIA and State Department
in early 2002 that the allegations were unequivocally wrong and based on forged documents.
According to the indictment, beginning in late May and throughout June, Libby participated in
multiple conversations concerning Valerie Wilson’s employment by the CIA, including on the following
occasions:

• on or about May 29, 2003, in the White House, Libby asked an Undersecretary
of State for information concerning the unnamed ambassador’s travel to Niger.
The Undersecretary thereafter directed the State Department’s Bureau of
Intelligence and Research to prepare a report concerning the ambassador and his
trip. The Undersecretary provided Libby with interim oral reports in late May
and early June 2003, and advised Libby that Wilson was the former ambassador
who took the trip;

• on or about June 9, 2003, a number of classified documents from the CIA were
faxed to the Office of the Vice President to the personal attention of Libby and
another person in the Vice President’s office. The documents, which bore
classification markings, discussed, among other things, Wilson and his trip to
Niger, but did not mention Wilson by name. After receiving these documents,
Libby and one or more other persons in the Vice President’s office handwrote the
names “Wilson” and “Joe Wilson” on the documents;

• on or about June 11 or 12, 2003, Libby was orally advised by the Undersecretary
of State that Wilson’s wife worked for the CIA and that State Department
personnel were saying that Wilson’s wife was involved in the organization of his
trip;

• on or about June 11, 2003, Libby was informed by a senior officer of the CIA that
Wilson’s wife was employed by the CIA and was believed to be responsible for
sending Wilson on the trip;

• prior to June 12, 2003, Washington Post reporter Walter Pincus contacted the
Office of the Vice President about a story he was writing about Wilson’s trip.
Libby participated in discussions in the Vice President’s office concerning how
to respond to Pincus;

• on or about June 12, 2003, Libby was advised by the Vice President of the United
States that Wilson’s wife worked at the CIA in the Counterproliferation Division.
Libby understood that the Vice President had learned this information from the
CIA;

• on or about June 14, 2003, Libby met with a CIA briefer and expressed
displeasure that CIA officials were making comments to reporters critical of the
Vice President’s office, and discussed with the briefer, among other things, “Joe
Wilson” and his wife “Valerie Wilson,” in the context of Wilson’s trip to Niger;

• shortly after publication on or about June 19, 2003, of an article in The New
Republic magazine online entitled “The First Casualty: The Selling of the Iraq
War,” Libby spoke by telephone with his then Principal Deputy and discussed the
article. That official asked Libby whether information about Wilson’s trip could
be shared with the press to rebut the allegations that the Vice President had sent
Wilson. Libby responded that there would be complications at the CIA in
disclosing that information publicly, and that he could not discuss the matter on
a non-secure telephone line; and

• on or about June 23, 2003, Libby met with Judith Miller of The New York Times.
Libby was critical of the CIA and disparaged what he termed “selective leaking”
by the CIA concerning intelligence matters. In discussing the CIA’s handling of
Wilson’s trip to Niger, Libby informed Miller Wilson’s wife might work at a
bureau of the CIA.

On July 6, 2003, The New York Times published an opinion article by Joseph Wilson entitled
“What I Didn’t Find in Africa.” On the same day, the Washington Post published an article about
Wilson’s 2002 trip to Niger, which was based partially on an interview of Wilson, and he was a guest
on the television program “Meet the Press.” In the article he wrote, as well as in the print and broadcast
interviews of him, Wilson asserted, among other things, that he had taken a trip to Niger at the request
of the CIA in February 2002 to investigate allegations that Iraq has sought or obtained uranium
yellowcake from Niger, and that he doubted Iraq had obtained uranium from Niger recently, for a
number of reasons. Wilson said that he believed, based on his understanding of government procedures,
that the Vice President’s office was advised of the results of his trip.

Following Wilson’s July 6, 2003 statements, according to the indictment, Libby engaged in the
following actions:

• on or about July 7, 2003, Libby had lunch with the then White House Press
Secretary and advised that individual that Wilson’s wife worked at the CIA,
noting that such information was not widely known;

• on or about the morning of July 8, 2003, Libby met with Miller of The New York
Times. When the conversation turned to the subject of Joseph Wilson, Libby
asked that the information he provided on the topic of Wilson be attributed to a
“former Hill staffer” rather than to a “senior administration official,” as had been
the understanding regarding other information that Libby provided to Miller
during this meeting. Libby then discussed with Miller Wilson’s trip and
criticized the CIA reporting concerning Wilson’s trip. During this discussion,
Libby advised Miller of his belief that Wilson’s wife worked for the CIA;

• also on or about July 8, 2003, Libby met with the Counsel to the Vice President
in an anteroom outside the Vice President’s office. During their brief
conversation, Libby asked the individual what paperwork there would be at the
CIA if an employee’s spouse undertook an overseas trip;

• no earlier than June 2003 but on or before July 8, 2003, the Assistant to the Vice
President for Public Affairs learned from another government official that
Wilson’s wife worked at the CIA and advised Libby of this information;

• on or about July 10, 2003, Libby spoke to NBC’s Russert to complain about press
coverage of Libby by an MSNBC reporter. Libby did not discuss Wilson’s wife
with Russert;

• on or about July 10 or July 11, 2003, Libby spoke to a senior White House
official (“Official A”) who advised Libby of a conversation Official A had earlier
that week with columnist Robert Novak in which Wilson’s wife was discussed
as a CIA employee involved in Wilson’s trip. Libby was advised by Official A
that Novak would be writing a story about Wilson’s wife;

• on or about July 12, 2003, Libby flew with the Vice President and others to and
from Norfolk, Va., on Air Force Two. On his return trip, Libby discussed with
other officials aboard the plane what Libby should say in response to certain
pending media inquiries, including questions from Time’s Cooper;

• on or about July 12, 2003, in the afternoon, Libby spoke by telephone to Cooper,
who asked whether Libby had heard that Wilson’s wife was involved in sending
Wilson on the trip to Niger. Libby confirmed to Cooper, without elaboration or
qualification, that he had heard this information too; and

• on or about July 12, 2003, in the late afternoon, Libby spoke by telephone with
Miller and discussed Wilson’s wife, and that she worked at the CIA.
The false statement charge in Count Two of the indictment alleges that Libby lied to FBI agents
on October14 and November 26, 2003, regarding the conversation with Russert on July 10, 2003. Count

Three charges Libby with making false statements to FBI agents during the same FBI interviews in
October and November 2003 relating to his July 12, 2003 conversation with Cooper.

The perjury charge in Count Four alleges that Libby lied while testifying under oath before the
grand jury on March 5, 2004, about his conversation with Russert on July 10, 2003, because, in fact,
Russert did not ask Libby if Libby knew that Wilson’s wife worked for the CIA, nor did Russert tell
Libby that all the reporters knew it, and at the time of their conversation, Libby was well aware that
Wilson’s wife worked at the CIA.

Count Five charges Libby with perjury before the grand jury for allegedly lying when he said that
he told reporters that he was telling them what other reporters were saying – first, on March 5, 2004,
about his conversation with Cooper on or about July 12, 2003, and second, on March 24, 2004, regarding
conversations with reporters. In fact, Libby well knew that he did not advise Cooper or other reporters
that he had heard other reporters were saying that Wilson’s wife worked for the CIA, nor did Libby
advise Cooper or other reporters that he did not know whether this assertion was true.
If convicted, the crimes charged in the indictment carry the following maximum penalties on
each count: obstruction of justice – 10 years in prison, and making false statements and perjury –5 years
in prison, and each count carries a maximum fine of $250,000, making the maximum penalty for
conviction on all counts 30 years in prison and a $1.25 million fine. Note, however, that the Court
would determine the appropriate sentence to be imposed.

The public is reminded that an indictment contains only charges and is not evidence of guilt. The
defendant is presumed innocent and is entitled to a fair trial at which the government has the burden of
proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

# # # #

[FORD]

Scooter was "allegedly" told of Plame's undercover CIA status by an undersecretary of State.

So the next BCE domino to fall may not be KKKarl or Uncle Dick after all......



Watch where you point that finger, Fuller brush mustache man.... you're FUCKED!!!

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by FORD
Scooter was "allegedly" told of Plame's undercover CIA status by an undersecretary of State.

So the next BCE domino to fall may not be KKKarl or Uncle Dick after all......



Watch where you point that finger, Fuller brush mustache man.... you're FUCKED!!!

"I can tell you that the substantial bulk of the work of this investigation is concluded." - Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald On Friday, 28 October 2005

[FORD]

Of course "this investigation" is concluded. The grand jury expires according to statute. That doesn't mean a "new" investigation won't begin. Fitz very carefully implied as much.

[Guitar Shark]

Go easy on ole BBB FORD... he's choking on all that crow.

[Warham]

Fitzgerald was appointed by John Ashcroft to do this investigation. The majority (ie 99.99%) of the investigation is complete. Read between the lines.

[Cathedral]

Hey, how come Tom DeLay isn't required to resign?
He's charged with a crime too, so how he keeps his job title is beyond me.

I want all scum suckers removed from Washington, NOW!

[Warham]

Innocent until proven guilty would probably be DeLay's answer.

[Guitar Shark]

Originally posted by Cathedral
Hey, how come Tom DeLay isn't required to resign?

Technically, Libby wasn't "required" to resign either... it was probably a political decision, to deflect some attention away from the White House.

[FORD]

Originally posted by Cathedral
Hey, how come Tom DeLay isn't required to resign?
He's charged with a crime too, so how he keeps his job title is beyond me.

I want all scum suckers removed from Washington, NOW!

DeLay DID resign as the majority leader. I agree he should have to give up his congressional seat entirely, since he was actually arrested and charged, as well as indicted.

[Warham]

That'd be my guess as well. Take attention away from the VP's office.

[FORD]

Originally posted by Guitar Shark
Technically, Libby wasn't "required" to resign either... it was probably a political decision, to deflect some attention away from the White House.

And guess what.... Chimpy's going on vacation again! Off to Camp David.....

[Warham]

Originally posted by FORD
DeLay DID resign as the majority leader. I agree he should have to give up his congressional seat entirely, since he was actually arrested and charged, as well as indicted.

I think we should find a list of congressmen who were indicted for crimes who kept their seats after the fact. I'm sure you'd find quite a varied list.

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by FORD
DeLay DID resign as the majority leader. I agree he should have to give up his congressional seat entirely, since he was actually arrested and charged, as well as indicted.

Hypocrite.

There was a sitting President in recent history who didn't resign when he was charged with a crime.

Can't figure out who that was folks?

[Warham]

It doesn't matter if you mislead a grand jury, and write false affidavits, as long as you've got an intern under the desk. It's the liberal way!

That was Scooter's mistake.

[FORD]

Yeah..... keep up with the "getting your dick sucked is 100 times worse than exposing an entire false front CIA corporation to terrorists" delusion, Busheep.

How the fuck do you people sleep at night?

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by FORD
Yeah..... keep up with the "getting your dick sucked is 100 times worse than exposing an entire false front CIA corporation to terrorists" delusion, Busheep.

How the fuck do you people sleep at night?

You moron.

There was no crime committed concerning the CIA leak and that's a fact.

[Guitar Shark]

Originally posted by FORD
Yeah..... keep up with the "getting your dick sucked is 100 times worse than exposing an entire false front CIA corporation to terrorists" delusion, Busheep.

How the fuck do you people sleep at night?

Actually, the charges against Clinton and Libby are fairly similar. The difference is that the charges against Clinton were not made in criminal court by an independent prosecutor, they were made by a politically motivated Republican controlled Congress. It's an important distinction that is often conveniently overlooked.

I agree with BBB that DeLay doesn't need to resign.

[Guitar Shark]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
You moron.

There was no crime committed concerning the CIA leak and that's a fact.

The only fact is that YOU are a moron if you truly believe the above. Whether a crime was committed will be determined by the finder of fact, not by you.

[Warham]

Clinton though was found in contempt of court by a federal district court judge, who shouldn't have had a political axe to grind.

[Guitar Shark]

Originally posted by Warham
Clinton though was found in contempt of court by a federal district court judge, who shouldn't have had a political axe to grind.

I think I recall that too, but that's not a crime, it's a discovery violation for which he would be required to pay sanctions and possibly jail time.

Trust me, I'm not defending Clinton in any way... his actions were despicable. But, in my judgment, less despicable than today's charges.

[Warham]

Let me go on record here as one of the Army's premiere conservatives and say that I am in no way defending ole Scooter here. If he lied to the grand jury, and they find him guilty, he should have to deal with the consequences.

I still haven't heard a thing from Fitzgerald whether or not Plame was even covert when her name was sent out to the press. Libby wasn't charged with that crime, which is severe. He was charged with impeding the investigation. This whole investigation was supposedly about who outed a supposedly covert CIA agent. This almost seems like a way to pad the final report from Fitzgerald. Sounds like he's disappointed somebody hasn't stepped forward and confessed to some greater wrongdoing, although Scooter was indicted on felony counts.

[Warham]

Originally posted by Warham
I think we should find a list of congressmen who were indicted for crimes who kept their seats after the fact. I'm sure you'd find quite a varied list.

Here's what CongressDailyAM reported:

Rep. William Janklow, R-S.D., resigned Jan. 20, 2004, after he was convicted of vehicular homicide in the August 2003 death of a motorcyclist. The former governor was convicted in December 2003 and sentenced to 100 days in prison. South Dakota's Supreme Court upheld his conviction.
Rep. James Traficant, D-Ohio, was expelled from the House in 2001 after he was convicted of bribery and racketeering violations. Only then-Rep. Gary Condit, D-Calif., who was then was the subject of a separate scandal, voted against the resolution to expel Traficant, who ran an unsuccessful write-in campaign in 2002. Traficant was sentenced to eight years in prison, three years of supervised release and $150,000 in fines. The Supreme Court upheld a decision by the 6th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, which had rejected Traficant's assertion that his conviction and expulsion from the House violated the protection from double jeopardy guaranteed by the Fifth Amendment.

Former Rep. James Kolter, D-Pa., pleaded guilty in 1996 to conspiring to trade government-purchased postage stamps and vouchers for cash. He was sentenced to six months and fined $20,000, despite pleas for home confinement or time in a halfway house. Amid an investigation into allegations against him, Kolter lost his bid for renomination in 1992. He had served five terms in the House.

Two-term Rep. Walter Tucker, D-Calif., resigned in 1995, one week after he was convicted of extortion and tax fraud for accepting and demanding bribes while mayor of Compton, Calif. Prior to his resignation, Rep. James Sensenbrenner, R-Wis., had introduced a privileged resolution that, if passed, would have resulted in Tucker's expulsion. Tucker was sentenced to 27 months in prison.

Rep. Jay Kim, R-Calif., was defeated for renomination in 1998 after pleading guilty in federal court the year before to a misdemeanor violation for accepting illegal campaign donations. Kim was sentenced to one year's probation, two months' house arrest, community service and a $5,000 fine. Kim was seeking his fourth term when he was defeated by Rep. Gary Miller in the GOP primary.

[BigBadBrian]

Originally posted by Guitar Shark
The only fact is that YOU are a moron if you truly believe the above. Whether a crime was committed will be determined by the finder of fact, not by you.

"My wife was not a clandestine officer the day that Bob Novak blew her
identity" Joe Wilson on the Wolf Blitzer show, July 14, 2005

[Guitar Shark]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
"My wife was not a clandestine officer the day that Bob Novak blew her
identity" Joe Wilson on the Wolf Blitzer show, July 14, 2005

What's your point? No charges have been filed on that issue. Only obstruction of justice, perjury, etc. - basically, for the coverup, not for the leak itself.

[Cathedral]

Originally posted by Warham
I think we should find a list of congressmen who were indicted for crimes who kept their seats after the fact. I'm sure you'd find quite a varied list.

But in the interest of the people they serve, they should step aside until cleared of all charges.
Doubt of their innocence is enough that they shouldn't be allowed to do the work of the people during such time.

[FORD]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
"My wife was not a clandestine officer the day that Bob Novak blew her
identity" Joe Wilson on the Wolf Blitzer show, July 14, 2005

And like most Busheep, you have taken that quote completely out of context.

What Wilson was saying was, from the moment Novakula published her name in print, her cover was blown. And as a result, the false front company of Brewster & Jennings was useless, which in turn exposed the covers of ALL the agents who worked for that "company".

Which in turn damaged any leads that the "Brewster & Jennings" operatives may have had on possible WMD's, since that was their area of expertise. Of course there were NO WMD's in Iraq, as it turned out. But what if there were?

How many CIA agents were put at risk, or even killed, by the actions of the BCE? How many informants were killed because they were discovered to be working with a CIA front company?

Do you fucking realize how deep this thing really goes??

[Warham]

Joseph Wilson's been proven to be less than reliable as far the truth goes.

"I have no poltical motive in this....well, I will go work for the Kerry campaign, but other than that, I have no political motive."

Are his fifteen minutes up yet?

[FORD]

Originally posted by Warham
Joseph Wilson's been proven to be less than reliable as far the truth goes.

"I have no poltical motive in this....well, I will go work for the Kerry campaign, but other than that, I have no political motive."

Are his fifteen minutes up yet?

If the man has personal knowledge of how the BCE has put America's own agents at risk, what's wrong with him trying to get the dumbass Chimp out of office?

[Warham]

He and his wife also donated to Al Gore's campaign in 2000, before the 'CHiMP' was in office.

[FORD]

And Poppy Bush called Joe Wilson a "hero".

Poppy never would have said such a thing about a Democrat.

[Warham]

Oh, Poppy's just reaching across the aisle, that's all.

[FORD]

Nope.

Poppy would never nominate anybody as Ambassador who wasn't one of his own prior business associates. If you don't get what I'm saying, let's just say Joe probably met his wife on the job.

Of course, the nature of the CIA being what it is, I don't expect either Joe Wilson or Poppy Bush to admit to that.

CIA agents aren't often "liberals".

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Hypocrite.

There was a sitting President in recent history who didn't resign when he was charged with a crime.

Can't figure out who that was folks?

you are so god damn lame!

let us enjoy ourselves for one fucking day

Jesus.

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by Warham
It doesn't matter if you mislead a grand jury, and write false affidavits, as long as you've got an intern under the desk. It's the liberal way!

That was Scooter's mistake.

and you're fucking lame too!

now the logical question for people with intelligence is...

how many other times has this blatantly fraudulant administration lied to all of us? what were the stakes?



not oh no why didn't Clinton get impeached?

fucking ridiculous, both of you goosetepping bootlickers.

[blueturk]

Originally posted by BigBadBrian
Hypocrite.

There was a sitting President in recent history who didn't resign when he was charged with a crime.

Can't figure out who that was folks?

Thank God we've got an administration now that is bringing honor and dignity back to the White House!

[FORD]

Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald today indicted Vice President Cheney's chief of staff, I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, on two counts of perjury, two counts of making false statements and one count of obstruction of justice.

Libby was known to have been part of a group of White House officials that included Deputy White House Chief of Staff Karl Rove, Deputy National Security Advisor Stephen Hadley, White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card, and Press Secretary Scott McClellan who were charged with selling the Bush Administration's rationale for the Iraq war to the American people.

Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean today issued the following statement:

"This is a sad day for America.

"Beyond the evidence that the White House manipulated the intelligence used to justify the war in Iraq, a group of senior White House officials not only orchestrated efforts to smear a critic of the war, but worked to cover up this smear campaign. In so doing, they ignored the rule of law, endangering our national security and the brave men and women who dedicate their lives to protecting our nation's security. I. Lewis Libby was a part of this internal White House group.

"This is not only an abuse of power, it is an un-American abuse of the public trust. As Americans, we must hold ourselves and our leaders to a higher standard. We cannot fear dissent. We cannot fear the truth. And we cannot tolerate those who do.

"More importantly, we can't ignore the glaring questions this case has raised about the rationale the Bush Administration used to send us to war in Iraq, a war that continues. American soldiers are still in harms way. Over 2,000 brave Americans have lost their lives, thousands of American soldiers have been wounded, and thousands of American families have made the ultimate sacrifice. Still, the President has no plan and no exit strategy. And still he hasn't answered the question, what are we doing in Iraq and when can our troops come home?

"President Bush faces a serious test of leadership; will he keep his pledge to hold his Administration to high ethical standards and give the American people what they deserve, and will he answer to the American people for these serious missteps?"


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[Guitar Shark]

LOL, again with the Dean stuff FORD?

You DO know that nobody here, except you, cares what he has to say? Why do you keep quoting him?