Sheep Pen needs definition.

[Steve Savicki]

Gentlemen,

Perhaps I overlooked this in knowing Sarge's "It's about growing, not getting smaller" attitude, but I feel like there needs to be some fine tuning for The Sheep Pen:

First off, the "Don't like Roth? Drink our broth" attitude created an oxymoron for this site. The original intention was to support Roth, yet the forum intentionally invites people to

1. Create arguments

2. Sign up under "anti Roth" usernames.

I will admit, the main always had it's share of Hagar and possibly even Cherone supporters. But members who support Roth are against these so why create a forum to invite what you are against?

Second, some of the threads cause confusion for lurkers (remember, not everyone watching signs up.) The example I am refering to was Bob's 70's Musical Appreciation Thread.
There's nothing wrong with that thread, but with a forum titled "House of Music", it may come across is "only pen members or elites" may post in this thread; the rest of you start your own thread in Badguy's and Phoenix forums. No Penner has personally given me that impression, but you have to empathize on how that would look to a lurker who is making a decision on whether to sign up here or not.

Third, The Pen looks kind of cliquey and could make a newbie with no "seniority" to the forums feel unwanted to unwelcome to the site altogether. The thread I'm talking about is Rikk's "Rules and Staff" thread. It comes across as belittling the other forums.
No other forum has a thread implying, "These are the staff." Every other forum is content with reading who is moderator next to its description.

Finally, the Sheep Pen has lead to http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/showt...945#post759945 which has lead to http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/showt...threadid=29665 . Is this the impression we want as Sarge having the best message board?

I am not in any way saying the Pen needs to be closed. I've PMed most, if not all the frequenters and they're cool.
I have nothing against Sarge's vision about growing as I've visited and posted in every forum I believe.
I just believe the Pen needs to be defined so members understand what it's about so we can maintain integrity... it's about working together and growing folks!

[Romeo Delight]

Some interesting points Steve.

One thing you didn't mention is that those who post shite will do so if we redefine Pen or not and they always will.

How is it a bad thing to let it be known that there are significant consequences to being a complete jackass. It is inevitable that Hagar fans will come to this site. Some will be reasonable and they have been treated with kid gloves, compared to some of the recent idiots like ritetool and Thorman. Really they are harmless, but they are spamming the Main right now. Do you think that this activity would decrease if the Pen wasn't inviting (as you say) confrontation? I say not. They will always be here. Why not have motivated individuals to steer them in the right direction and try to make something entertaining out of their presence?

I mean you will get flamed and hard if you are intent on posting mindless drool, or their ignorance in musical tastes will be parodied for all to enjoy. We are all busy and the mods and regulars don't always have the time and energy to give these a-holes or curious Van Hagar fans (who WILL come) what they deserve or simply make the best of their inevitable presence.

Being a part of the Pen doesn't change the fact that I would pursue those to bash the mighty DLR regardless.

There are crossover themes in all threads and I am curious as to why the Pen was singled out?

If anything I think the Pen is a great example for other forums, especially considering the creativity that goes on there. Why the need to classify things?

All members of Pen are active in all forums posting regularly, with the creative juices flowing from the Pen and its personality.

Other than a posting welcoming newcomers, I can't see the need for any changes. All of the regulars know they are welcome and their contributions are outstanding.

[POJO_Risin]

Well...now this oughta be an interesting thread...

and no offense flamma...

keep your "creative juices" to yourself...

we don't want them "flowing" out of the Pen...

[Rikk]

STEVE, no offense but what a ridiculous post.

Who cares what the SHEEP PEN is really about? Even I don't know sometimes.

I know it's about supporting Roth.

But yes...it's a clique. If you think the Pen Staff and Rules thread makes it seem that other forums are somehow inferior, then I suggest you lay off the mango bongs. It's a list of those in the current Pen clique, FORD's definition of a sheep and nothing more.

As for fights, again...give me a break. There are inevitably the same cuntroversies down there as there are in other forums. The only difference is that I've taken it upon myself to send such fight threads in recent times to the DUMP where they belong.

It seems there are a few that think THEY should define what the Pen is and that THEY should have say in how it is changed. And the bottom line is: a lot of that place is my vision and even I don't know what it means sometimes.

If someone does not like the Pen, then they can post in the other equally amazing forums at this site.

If someone starts fighting for such an idea, they should ask themselves why they care so much about the Sheep Pen.

It's a clique of Roth supporters.

Does it somehow send people away from the site when they first start posting? Fuck no. I know not one case of newbies coming in to the Pen and being attacked for no reason. In fact, almost no newbies come straight to the Pen. They post in Main.

You worry about those tie-fighters. I'll worry about the Pen.

[mewisemagic]

No Offense Savicki,But how do You justify pulling 2 threads out of a whole forum that are supposedly cliche,And leave a thread out that someone has posted a picture of their own feces?????
And besides,Those 2 threads You make reference to were not even posted in the Sheep Pen?????

[Matt White]

I fucking LARVE the SHEEP PEN the way it is..........



Just so we're on the same page........................

[Nickdfresh]

Dear Steve,

I do so like it when you step out from behind your "border-line retarded" trolling persona and offer valid, well-thought-out input such as this. I do believe that you raise some interesting, intelligent points.

-But-

I have to say that first off, I love the SHEEP PEN. I love the ROTH ARMY even more so...The SHEEP PEN was started as a long-ass mother-fucking thread, it was never meant to be a FORUM. So, I think you must realize the difficulty of sustaining an entire forum based solely on the concept of proverbially slitting the throats of DAVE-hating, VAN HAGAR worshippers. It's a tad bit of a difficult task, so of course we have branched out into various areas that reflect individual interests and personalities (i.e. STAR WARS, irreverent comic relief LARG stuff, etc.). But one thing I patently object to in this thread, STEVE, is your use of two threads to illustrate as to what you see as the problems regarding the SHEEP PEN that:

A.) Were not even in the SHEEP PEN, never were.

B.) Were not started by a SHEEP PEN member, they were started by bitter fools.

Originally posted by Steve Savicki
Finally, the Sheep Pen has lead to http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/show...9945#post759945 which has lead to http://www.rotharmy.com/forums/show...&threadid=29665 . Is this the impression we want as Sarge having the best message board?

Both threads were in FAN FORUM STEVE, so what is your point with that remark? Really? If three malcontented, bitter, and quite probably drunk posters get together to premeditatedly spam a forum that was here long before the SHEEP PEN and to harass a MOD they see tied to someone they dearly hate, this has to do with the SHEEP PEN how?

I mean, forums were never spammed, oh noooooooo!, prior to the creation, the immaculate conception, of the SHEEP PEN? Are you trying to insinuate that the drama and flame-wars are the result of the SHEEP PEN FORUM? Really STEVE, are you not an old timer? I'm a little disappointed in you dude. I keep hearing comments from old timers about legendary flame wars and webbies that had to undergo trial by fire in order to survive, and as a result, they became hard bitten, tough mother-fuckers filled with both venom and much wit, and with those facts as a result, they made this place a better one, filled with attitude and edge. So, when I hear people cuntplaining about "fighting" and "flame wars," I'm sorry, but the word 'P-U-S-S-Y' comes to mind...This isn't a high school, as much as though is seems like it at times with some peoples' mentalities. The truth is that there would be flaming with or without the SHEEP PEN. Flaming both pre-and-post dates the SHEEP PEN, and all of it's Admins.

And STEVEN, if you have a problem with the SHEEP PEN content, try to use thread links to actual SHEEP PEN THREADS! If you have a problem with me as a Mod, or what happens in FAN Forum, please try to contain your criticism to that topic only, and leave my associations to "cliques" out of it, mmm'kay? But nevertheless, thank you for your input. I do think you raised some valid points. If only you had not weakened your points with faulty logic and bad thread links that were wide of the mark.

**End of transmission**

[Golden AWe]

Fighting is good!!!

Battles are good!!!

Those things kept VH interesting after Dave left unlike their music...and they keep this site interesting as well...cuntroversy!!!

[ThrillsNSpills]

Coming Soon..

Sheep Pen workout tapes for improved definition.

But really, does anyone coming in there with guns a blazin about the merits of I Can't Drive 55 need to be bashed into the dust ? seems redundant.

And maybe just maybe the 70's musical appreciation threads true point was missed .....

[Steve Savicki]

Rikk, it's not about what the Pen is about. Heck, who knows what the Dump is about.

It was about intentionally trying to invite trouble. Like having a Roth fan site and an anti-Roth site on the same site.
No other site that I know of has a forum of implying, "If you don't like the artist this site is about post here and we'll put you in your place."
Not at Vonnie's (not last I checked) and not at Britney Spears' (not that I really checked either. )

I understand that the Penners have donated and paid for bandwidth and I respect that and all the members there.
I just don't understand why you want to intentionally invite trouble over to the board.

Nick, I have no problems with you at all. I don't read the fan as much, in fact I don't come to this site as much as I'd like.

Okay, I'll check out the Pen and find out what more it's about.


Flamma, I see where you are coming from. If people like Thorman and the other you mentioned weren't allowed to post at all, we wouldn't have this mess.
Of course, no one, not even moderators or webbies can be here 24/7 so maybe I jumped the gun a little.

[Romeo Delight]

Originally posted by ThrillsNSpills


But really, does anyone coming in there with guns a blazin about the merits of I Can't Drive 55 need to be bashed into the dust ? seems redundant.

But what if he posts it every day and bumps real DLR threads in Main?

This guy should be allowed to make a fool of himself at our expense?

I think not. Ya we could ignore all Hagar lovers, but where would the fun in that be? Using one's wit to make the best of an inevitable situation is all good. Only other alternative is to send all Hagar threads in Main elsewhere, but that seems impractical.

Bottom line, they will always come, and pen does nothing to increase their presence.

[ThrillsNSpills]

Originally posted by DavidFlamma
But what if he posts it every day and bumps real DLR threads in Main?

This guy should be allowed to make a fool of himself at our expense?

I think not.

I think not as well, but I see it as being at their expense, not ours, but I hear ya. They deserve what they get, I was just making a point.
Viva La Sheep Pen.

[Rikk]

Originally posted by mewisemagic
And besides,Those 2 threads You make reference to were not even posted in the Sheep Pen?????

Bingo. What the fuck did those two links have to do with the SHEEP PEN?

STEVE, shouldn't you be busy suggesting that ICON should be de-Webbied?

[Rikk]

Originally posted by Steve Savicki
It was about intentionally trying to invite trouble.

The Pen has existed for more than a year, and three and a half months as a forum. I have yet to see ONE case in which Hagar-ites actually come spamming at our site because the SHEEP PEN challenges them to. I've never seen a Hagar-ite actually start spamming our site even in the Pen forum. It's always Main...the starting point.

Methinks you're worried too much about the SHEEP PEN. To this day, I can't even figure out why it's been your avatar and title for the past several months. I mean, how the fuck can you possibly care more about it than the guys that are in it?

[Northern Girl]

Re: Sheep Pen needs definition.

Originally posted by Steve Savicki
yet the forum intentionally invites people to

1. Create arguments

So do most of your threads, Steve !