Bill O'Reilly - The Moron Strikes Back!

[Dr. Love]

Originally posted by steve
You see...when you words like "those people" - to me, that is scary talk.
If you or O'Reily were to refer specifically to the Shiite al-Sadyr group, that would be one thing.

But I figure it like this. I love America - it's a great country in a lot of ways (not to say it does not have it's problems - it hass a lot) and it was built on a great set of principles...

However - a lot of America's strength is derived from SHEER LUCK -in that we had a whole continent of available land - land that enabled a large, wealthy, powerful middle class to develope.
It was also ONLY SHEER LUCK that I was born here - the richest/free-est country on the face of the earth.

No American human being is any better than any goat hearder or starving famine victim. So to talk of using the means which would bring total fear into whole populations - those means can only be accomplished with hundreds of thousands of innocent deaths.

If the US were to use enough means to put TOTAL FEAR into all the brown people as Bill O'Reily says, the only way that could be accomplished would be to drop a few nukes or firebomb a whole city or two into oblivion.

Given the current situation - this would be evil.

I was referring to the armed groups trying to mount an insurrection.

[diamondD]

I think he was too busy looking for a way to be offended to understand what you meant.

[steve]

Originally posted by diamondD
I think he was too busy looking for a way to be offended to understand what you meant.

No, I wasn't looking to be offended.

In fact, I think as a strategist, Bill O'Reilly is correct. If we were to use the amount of force it would take to striek total fear into our enemies, then we would win. But to win by total fear would be to use an amount of force taht would make us freaking evil bastards no better than Hitler of Stalin or Saddam.

Bill O'Reilly said he thinks we need to drive "these people" into total fear. My point is that, if that is really his opinion, he (O'Reilly) doesn't realize what he has said.

To win by fear-mongering is the stuff of Stalin, Hitler, and Saddam. To really accomplish putting TOTAL FEAR into your enemy is more than arresting Al-Sdyr (or however it is spelled...) militiamen.

The only road to winning through fear is the stuff of geniocide and mass-murder.

I argue that O'Reilly is a moron - he doesn't raelize the level of force it would take to place this "fear" he uses as the centerpeice of his argument.

look at Israel. The Israelis have been going tit for tat and killing off militiamen left and right for the past 4 years and it has not struck "fear" into Hamas and or suicide bombers at all - it has made them more ambitious.

So what would it take for Israel to truley strike fear into the Arab community. Surely, if they dropped an atomic weapon on Gaza, the level of annihilation would cross a threashold that would psychologically make them submit - if history is any guide (Hiroshima, Dresden, Stalin's purges, The Holocaust) this would be the case.

But at what price?
And are the circumstances the same?

[diamondD]

First off, these people (yes, I said it) are killing Americans. That's the bottom line. We can roll over and look soft in order to not look "too evil" to these people that are burning our civilians or we can take the fight to them.

I'm not saying nuke them, yet. It hasn't gotten near that far. We can take them out with air and ground strikes no problem.

[BrownSound1]

First of all. to compare Iraq to Vietnam is ridiculous. The amount of soldiers that we have lost in this war is nothing compared to the rate we were loosing them in Vietnam. I really cannot believe the things I hear some of you folks say. Did any of you really think bringing down Iraq's government was going to be a cakewalk? I sure as hell didn't, and I cannot think of a single time that there was a change like this in any nation's history that didn't have bloodshed. Also, there are going to be people who resist change, be it for good or bad whenever you have a situation like this.

Now my opinion of the Middle East is this, those fuckers have been fighting since the beginning of time, and there will always be instability in that region. However, if we can minimize the instability some, then we will ALL be a little safer. This war has had some positive effects, i.e. Libya fessing up about their WMD's. I think that is great...even though I still don't trust those bastards any farther than I can throw them.

[John Ashcroft]

I say "Nuke 'em all!"

There, it's said. You've got your devil, now bring it on.

[steve]

The problem is...
you drop one nuke in the middle east and the feces hits that spinning thing.
Pakistan erupts into civil war and the 30 or so nukes they have are stolen by various terrorist organizations...nukes never to be seen again until, over the next 15 years, bombs go off in cities accross north america.

worst case scenario, yeah - but entirely possible.

muslim extremists think death is winning.
they think death in battle is the ultimate signal of devotion to God.
they think "death" is merely a wormhole to paradise.
they lose NOTHING by dying.

a lot of folks in the secular world do lose something, namely, their linear, terminal existance. most Europeans don't neccessarily believe in an afterlife and more and more americans don't neccessarily.

[ELVIS]

Bullshit!

More and more americans DO neccessarily have faith in God, and that happens to include an afterlife.

The problem is people like YOU who create bullshit in your feeble little minds just like your last post shows...

Muslim extremists lose nothing by dying ??

GOOD!

When they are ALL dead they won't have shit to lose and the world will be a safer place...

[steve]

Alright Daffy...calm down and get a mop - your spit is all over the place.

If you want a religious war, fine.

Perhaps people like me will get together with our scientists and use our "religion" (science) to build a new world on the moon. And then we can watch the Christian/Muslim holy war from there.
And after the dust and nuclear winter settles, we, the true meek, shall inherit the earth.

[John Ashcroft]

Actually, the moon might make a good "Nucular" launch pad...

Good idea steve. We could institute "Star Wars take 2".

[ELVIS]

Hmmm...

[steve]

All said, I don't hate religion inheriently.

Whatever one needs to get through the day, be it Christianity, Islam, David Lee Roth...whatever, it's all good.

However...afterlife-driven religion presents a problem in that it makes life merely a pretext to entering a wormhole to immortality.

And when the religion becomes a vehicle to harm others that disagree with you - as Christianity has become time and time again and as many sects of Islam are now...well, dee shit be scary.

That is not to say that making oneself into a God (as Hitler and Stalin did) is any better, of course.

[ELVIS]

I hear ya...

Good post.

[lucky wilbury]

back to the main point the japanese were demoralized because of the a bombs being dropped and the fact they were losing. thats point one and the second more important point is the japanese fell into line because their emperar (sic) told them too. after they surrendered he basically told them to listen to them americans and not stir touble. he was their "supreme being" in thier country and held that sway. you didn't have that in germany or iraq which is why their were attacks after the end of the wars by both the remnents of the iraqi and german regimes.

[ELVIS]

I don't know about that...