Why Eddie Is Not So Great As Vai,satriani,malmsteen...

[Calderone]

Eddie never has been so great as those musicians
HE IS GREAT ..ok
but he isn't on that level ..
Ed's creativity died around 1984
the last thing he came was the tapping harmonics (used live on HOT FOR TEACHER UK 1984) not on the 1984 album
but lots on the hagar albums
the other improvement was the drill on poundcake
ANYTHING SINCE THEN ...isnt new.
and im telling you the truth
GIRL GONE BAD 3:55 (listen) he does the same licks and things over and over...he has been doin since the 77 demos!!!!
Ive seen the letterman videos and lespaul tribute
and its no new thing like guitarists malsmsteen,vai or satriani creates all the time
Ed was cool Till 1984 AND im not telling this
cause dave left.
maybe dave left at the right time.
ED ISNT SO COOL
ITS WAY OVER RATED

[Switch84]

I agree with you, Sammy Baby! He hasn't been truly creative ever since Dave was in the band. He didn't need to with Spammy in the line up. He hasn't been challenged to do anything innovative. Maybe that's why Dave isn't in on the reunion...Ed can't live up to Davy Baby's hyper demanding standards anymore.

[Big Troubles]

Oh I dunno. I think thats like comparing a truck to a car to a train to a plane...They are a ll the same that they perform the same function, but they all have their own unique ways of travel. I believe Eddie is fantastic. I also think Zak Wylde is great too. I like Malmsteen and Vai as well. But all those guys are all different and all great in their own way. I can tell an Eddie guitar lick from miles away, and thats what I like about him. Im not really disagreeing with you here, just pointing out that all those guys are great in their own way. Can't compare tastes.

[Switch84]

Yeah, whether you're in first class or coach, you're still on the same plane, but the atmosphere is way better up front, Baby!

[Hummarstra]

Ed at his best (84 and prior) is better than all those cats put together. Don't put his best work side by side to his shitty work and than average them out. Compare the best of each of those guitarist and Ed wins. He is also the ONLY songwriter of the bunch. Forgot that, didn't you?

[Bill Lumbergh]

Originally posted by Hummarstra
Ed at his best (84 and prior) is better than all those cats put together. Don't put his best work side by side to his shitty work and than average them out. Compare the best of each of those guitarist and Ed wins. He is also the ONLY songwriter of the bunch. Forgot that, didn't you?

All bullshit aside I would never deny the influence Ed has had on rock music. It's immeasurable. However Dave had A LOT to do with that........he pushed Ed to those levels. The proof is in the pudding, he stopped trying after 85 as we all know.

[Panamark]

Can I throw Randy Rhodes into this mix? He was a songwriter and had
his own recognizable style. I listen to Vai, Malmsteen, Satch and co and sit there thinking, fuck they are good. But when I listen to old Halen and Rhodes I think, fuck that *music* is good.
Theres perfectly executed appregios, and then theres single bends or
vibrato notes in the right place that have more impact and feeling than the flash appregios. One of my favourite ever solos is Jimmy Page's Stairway to Heaven, that has got so much soul and feeling, yet its all very basic blue scales he's using. Ed had that feeling aswell as the technique..

Until Hagar came along...

[Hollywood Jesus]

Originally posted by Panamark
I listen to Vai, Malmsteen, Satch and co and sit there thinking, fuck they are good. But when I listen to old Halen and Rhodes I think, fuck that *music* is good.

Theres perfectly executed appregios, and then theres single bends or
vibrato notes in the right place that have more impact and feeling than the flash appregios.

...Ed had that feeling aswell as the technique.

Very well said. The three technicians don't resonate in my soul the way Eddie does, or at least has.

Eddie got more pretty and more commercial after Dave. But I gotta say I haven't enjoyed Dave quite as much without Ed either. These guys belong together. I believe the conflict spurred greatness in them both.

[SilvioDante]

I think BOTH Eddie and Randy changed rock guitar more than maybe any two gutiarist ever (Until Kurt Cobain came along and killed rock and roll gutiar). But, no fault obviously of Randy's, but neither had much range. (Randy didn't have a lot of time to show his stuff obviously) They did one thing well and that was it. I was a HUGE Ed fan, but to be honest, the last interesting and new thing he did was Cathedral.

Malmsteen sucks. He just tries to play scales as fast as he can. Big fucking deal.

Vai and Satriani try to push the envelope a little. Sound and techique wise.

[Wayne L.]

It might be true if you believe the critics that legendary rock guitarists Vai, Satriani & Malmsteen are much better than Eddie but the fact still remains that Eddie Van Halen is the last GREAT rock guitarist of his kind joining other legendary rock guitarists before him like Hendrix, Clapton, Beck & Page who had a huge impact on the rock scene when VH exploded back in 78.

[Big Troubles]

Originally posted by Panamark
Can I throw Randy Rhodes into this mix? He was a songwriter and had
his own recognizable style. I listen to Vai, Malmsteen, Satch and co and sit there thinking, fuck they are good. But when I listen to old Halen and Rhodes I think, fuck that *music* is good.
Theres perfectly executed appregios, and then theres single bends or
vibrato notes in the right place that have more impact and feeling than the flash appregios. One of my favourite ever solos is Jimmy Page's Stairway to Heaven, that has got so much soul and feeling, yet its all very basic blue scales he's using. Ed had that feeling aswell as the technique..

Until Hagar came along...

I agree. Randy and Edward changed the way people played and listened to guitar solos and riffs. Rhodes will be missed for that alone. I never really was a fan of Page though. Not sure why. Same reason I dont really like Keith Richards. Just doesn't do it for me. Ive always liked the Ted Nudgent aproach to guitar as well. Cat Scratch Fever and Free For All are basic chords, but man, he plays them with some juice baby.

[Big Troubles]

I also have a definate dislike for guitarists who speed through solos, thinking that is the impressive way. Malmsteen and Vai are bad for that. Speed demons on high E's. Slow the fuck down so we can at least enjoy it. It's not a race boys. LOL

[Panamark]

Thats ok, (RE: Page) I never liked Ted Nugent. The little I have heard of Ted Nugent sounded very basic and uninspiring.

[Big Troubles]

I think I started likeing Ted at an age where I was just starting to enjoy really good music. Thats why I sighted Cat Scratch and Free For All. Real basic tunes, but what a grab for attention. But yeah not all that exciting. Must've been a "time and place" thing for me. I still jam to both of those tunes though. Easy tunes to jam too!
If you play guitar, another group thats easy to emulate is Collective Soul. "Where the river Flows" and "Gel". I can play those back and forth all day.

[Calderone]

all your points are good ones!
yeah guys ...i exagerated a lil bit but im right anyway.
evh is great anyways

[Terry]

Vai and Satriani always left me cold. Great technical players, but no feeling.

I can't even bother comparing Ed and Yngwie, because they approach their playing differently. In terms of speed, Yngwie blows Ed away, no doubt.

Randy was great because his solos were compositions unto themselves. Listen to a lot of Eddie's solos on record, then listen to live boots. A lot of times Eddie doesn't do note-for-note live representations of his studio solos. I think he winged a lot of his solos, though he had many that were planned out.

Comparing guitarists is bullshit anyway, especially if it's based on speed.

An exceptional player in my book is one who comes out and redefines the intsrument. Hendrix, Van Halen and Segovia are three prime examples of that.

[Roth & Roll]

Originally posted by Terry
Vai and Satriani always left me cold. Great technical players, but no feeling.

I can't even bother comparing Ed and Yngwie, because they approach their playing differently. In terms of speed, Yngwie blows Ed away, no doubt.

Randy was great because his solos were compositions unto themselves. Listen to a lot of Eddie's solos on record, then listen to live boots. A lot of times Eddie doesn't do note-for-note live representations of his studio solos. I think he winged a lot of his solos, though he had many that were planned out.

Comparing guitarists is bullshit anyway, especially if it's based on speed.

An exceptional player in my book is one who comes out and redefines the intsrument. Hendrix, Van Halen and Segovia are three prime examples of that.

Exactly! Excellent points all around. However I would add Stevie Ray Vaughan to your list of Hendrix, EVH and Segovia. SRV definately redefined the way "Rock & Blues" guitar is played.

[tjvhou812]

Originally posted by sammycalderone
Eddie never has been so great as those musicians
HE IS GREAT ..ok
but he isn't on that level ..
Ed's creativity died around 1984
the last thing he came was the tapping harmonics (used live on HOT FOR TEACHER UK 1984) not on the 1984 album
but lots on the hagar albums
the other improvement was the drill on poundcake
ANYTHING SINCE THEN ...isnt new.
and im telling you the truth
GIRL GONE BAD 3:55 (listen) he does the same licks and things over and over...he has been doin since the 77 demos!!!!
Ive seen the letterman videos and lespaul tribute
and its no new thing like guitarists malsmsteen,vai or satriani creates all the time
Ed was cool Till 1984 AND im not telling this
cause dave left.
maybe dave left at the right time.
ED ISNT SO COOL
ITS WAY OVER RATED

let me tell you this mr. i dont know how to play guitar... becuase if you did you wouldnt even had posted this.. and anyone who replys to this and agree's they dont know what the fuck there talking about...
first of all vai is a rip off of sats.. and sats is a clone of edde...name one thing those guys did for guitar, you cant becuase there is none. eddie is technical.. you say eddie hasnt did nothing diffrent scence he been w/hagar, well if you had the fuck cd. you would know that he did a four finger tap on the solo to judgement day..if that aint creative i dont know what is mr. i dont know how to play giutar... vai and sats is great but dont i repeat dont compare them 2 the king...you dumb ass

[flappo]

..buddy guy , jeff beck and brian may , they are all better than vai and shitriani but they all acknowledge eddie's grateness

[GAR]

Mah butthole tickles.. wait, is that the brownsound kissing thru mah lower porthole or sompthin'????

[perticelli]

wow...nothing else left to do? now you're bashing Ed?

is Edison not the greatest inventor because he hasn't invented anything in decades? i mean he's dead and all, but that's your logic here.
c'mon, ed is a virtuoso, a prodigy and almost as perfect a player as there can be. This thread holds no merit for me.

[tjvhou812]

Originally posted by perticelli
wow...nothing else left to do? now you're bashing Ed?

is Edison not the greatest inventor because he hasn't invented anything in decades? i mean he's dead and all, but that's your logic here.
c'mon, ed is a virtuoso, a prodigy and almost as perfect a player as there can be. This thread holds no merit for me.

couldnt agree more......eddie has done more 4 giutar than satch and vai combined period

[DavidLeeNatra]

Originally posted by tjvhou812
eddie has done more 4 giutar than satch and vai combined period

especially the last ten years...

[Maggi]

not to be the smart ass here, but everybody that is not willing to accept that Joe Satriani is way superior in song writing and the most innovative guitar player than all other axemen named in this thread, must be either deaf or just plain ignorant.

just go, hit the books and educate yourselves, please

[DavidLeeNatra]

no wonder everyone is bashing ed for becoming a lazy (or lousy) guitar player...he played the keyboards on stage and let fatsam do the guitars...this is like michael schumacher driving a nissan while stevie wonder is driving the ferrari...I remember ed disappearing from the guitar polls after "1984" and becoming #1 in the keyborder rankings....good way to ruin your own legacy...

[pardo]

Originally posted by DavidLeeNatra
no wonder everyone is bashing ed for becoming a lazy (or lousy) guitar player...he played the keyboards on stage and let fatsam do the guitars...this is like michael schumacher driving a nissan while stevie wonder is driving the ferrari...I remember ed disappearing from the guitar polls after "1984" and becoming #1 in the keyborder rankings....good way to ruin your own legacy...

Nice fuckin post man!

[Cathedral]

Great White Buffalo is a fav Nugent tune of mine, but that dude is way more than his playing anyhoo. see him live for an example.

Ed in the beginning stole a lot from ZZTop and his best stuff is far behind him. The only reason you cannot compare new to old is because the new stuff is basically the old stuff warmed over and re-arranged.
The reason I can't compare Ed to Vai and Satch is due to something I have believed since VHI....
Ed was more freestyle whalin in the early days while the other guys are more educated technically.
they simply aren't in the same class so comparison is futile.
Not to mention that you are bound to share similarities with those whome you saw as influences as Vai is confessed to have been by Ed. He was also heavily influenced if not more so by Satriani.

It's all about finding your own groove and they have all done that or they wouldn't be where they are today.

Ed was awesome in the beginning but not as an individual, as a whole with Roth. Any great influencial and ground breaking group is no larger than the sum of its parts. for an example of that just compare Van Halen to Van Hagar.

I like Paige in the studio and not so much live becasue he was sloppy live. But add Plant to the mix and it becomes complete, no larger than the sum of its parts and equally as entertaining.

[pardo]

Originally posted by sammycalderone
Eddie never has been so great as those musicians
HE IS GREAT ..ok
but he isn't on that level ..
Ed's creativity died around 1984
the last thing he came was the tapping harmonics (used live on HOT FOR TEACHER UK 1984) not on the 1984 album
but lots on the hagar albums
the other improvement was the drill on poundcake
ANYTHING SINCE THEN ...isnt new.
and im telling you the truth
GIRL GONE BAD 3:55 (listen) he does the same licks and things over and over...he has been doin since the 77 demos!!!!
Ive seen the letterman videos and lespaul tribute
and its no new thing like guitarists malsmsteen,vai or satriani creates all the time
Ed was cool Till 1984 AND im not telling this
cause dave left.
maybe dave left at the right time.
ED ISNT SO COOL
ITS WAY OVER RATED

Okay, I totally agree about Ed not comin up with much after '84. I don't think Ed using a drill could be considered an innovation. If thats his big guitar contribution during the Van Hagar years, thats sad. A 6 year old coulda done that! Not to mention that Paul Gilbert actually used it to PLAY the guitar some years befor.

Ed was doin the tapped harmonics as far back as VHII (intro to Women In Love). As for the Judgement Day solo - it was a hold over from Eds '84 table tray technique solo. Anyway, this isn't shit you people don't already know - just nobody spelled it out yet.

Anyway, in my opinion, its overly obvious that Ed didn't play as much guitar after '84. Back then he said he could pretty much play anything that popped into his head. He could hear somethin in his head and make it come out of his amp. You can't do that unless you're very attached to your guitar.

Then in the GW interview with Dwezil (sp) in like '95, he said all he does is try to squeeze licks out of boxes.

2 completely different approaches to the guitar.

And thats not even to mention how much his technique went down the crapper. He was a fast motherfucker - listen to his unaccompanied solo during the '84 tour! He could play a lot faster than he chose to in actual songs - he just knew what fit. Anyway, this is a completely different topic. Suffice it to say, his playing took a crap after '85.

I'll shut up.

[Cathedral]

LOL, that was a damned accurate assertion there, pardo..

Bravo...

[L.S.D.]

Originally posted by sammycalderone
Eddie never has been so great as those musicians
HE IS GREAT ..ok
but he isn't on that level ..
Ed's creativity died around 1984
the last thing he came was the tapping harmonics (used live on HOT FOR TEACHER UK 1984) not on the 1984 album
but lots on the hagar albums
the other improvement was the drill on poundcake
ANYTHING SINCE THEN ...isnt new.
and im telling you the truth
GIRL GONE BAD 3:55 (listen) he does the same licks and things over and over...he has been doin since the 77 demos!!!!
Ive seen the letterman videos and lespaul tribute
and its no new thing like guitarists malsmsteen,vai or satriani creates all the time
Ed was cool Till 1984 AND im not telling this
cause dave left.
maybe dave left at the right time.
ED ISNT SO COOL
ITS WAY OVER RATED

yeah, totally, the only reason that Eddie Van Halen could ever play guitar was becasue DLR taught him how to...........puke. You guys are fucking morons.

[perticelli]

This is now entering the realm of the ridiculous. You can certainly have differing opinions on how you like or dislike what ed plays, but you cannot argue his talent and ability and virtuosity. It simply cannot be argued credibly that he is anything other than abso-fucking-lutely great, and being that he is the reason Vai and satch exist is the only answer you need to know.

[Terry]

Pretty much every guitarist who has become popular since 1980 owes Ed a debt of gratitude.

Look at the music scene around 1978. Look at what was popular. Disco, New Wave and synthsizer pop. And most of the guitar players in hard rock bands were working the same old pentatonic blues scales into the ground.

Ed put the focus back on the guitar in the rock genre, and Vai and Satriani both use techniques made visible (although not necessarily pioneered by) Ed.

Zappa buffs aside, most guitar players first got exposed to Vai by his tabulature transcriptions of Eruption and Spanish Fly, around the same point he did the movie Crossroads.

Look at Satriani's first single off Surfing With the Alien. Whammy bar dives and tapping all over the place.

The mark Eddie left is so much larger than that of Satriani and Vai, who will always be two fine players who had the luck of the draw to become popular in Eddie's wake. Ed just got there first.

[Terry]

And as far as Eddie and his keyboards go, he was much better off using the piano as a writing instrument and transposing what he wrote onto guitar (an example being the intro to Hear About It Later) than trading off, for the simple reason that he's really not that much of a keyboardist. At least not from what I've ever heard live or onstage.

[pardo]

I have no problem if Ed uses keyboards like he did on And The Cradle Will Rock or One Foot Out The Door. I can tollerate Jump and I'll Wait without much effort.

But all the Hagar stuff makes me wanna give Ed a keyboard enima! I agree about writing on keys and making them guitar songs. As long as it doesn't suck!

[fenway5150]

Techinically you may have a point but those guys can't touch Ed when it comes to writing great riffs. As much as we hate Sammy, I can't lie....something like Human's Being is cool. It's simple but still bad ass.

[tjvhou812]

eddie was the best
eddie is the best
eddie will always be the best

[VHLifer]

Originally posted by sammycalderone
Eddie never has been so great as those musicians
HE IS GREAT ..ok
but he isn't on that level ..
Ed's creativity died around 1984
the last thing he came was the tapping harmonics (used live on HOT FOR TEACHER UK 1984) not on the 1984 album
but lots on the hagar albums
the other improvement was the drill on poundcake
ANYTHING SINCE THEN ...isnt new.
and im telling you the truth
GIRL GONE BAD 3:55 (listen) he does the same licks and things over and over...he has been doin since the 77 demos!!!!
Ive seen the letterman videos and lespaul tribute
and its no new thing like guitarists malsmsteen,vai or satriani creates all the time
Ed was cool Till 1984 AND im not telling this
cause dave left.
maybe dave left at the right time.
ED ISNT SO COOL
ITS WAY OVER RATED

you're outta your fuckin' mind dude!

[tjvhou812]

Originally posted by VHLifer
you're outta your fuckin' mind dude!

well said, he's a fucking moron

[fenway5150]

And, by the way, Yngvie Malmsteen recently played a place called The Corner Pocket in Orange, Connecticut. It's a fucking pool room with a stage set up in the corner! It fits up to about 300 people....yeah, he's better than Eddie.....right.

[Big Troubles]

Originally posted by fenway5150
And, by the way, Yngvie Malmsteen recently played a place called The Corner Pocket in Orange, Connecticut. It's a fucking pool room with a stage set up in the corner! It fits up to about 300 people....yeah, he's better than Eddie.....right.

oh my god that is so sad. are you serious dude? he's not better then ed, in terms of creativity, but playing in a pool hall? wow.

if you feel as bad as I do, send $1 to Yngwie Malmsteen c/o.....