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Thread: GM/Delphi Continue Struggle To Survive

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    GM/Delphi Continue Struggle To Survive

    From the Los Angeles Times

    GM, Delphi at Crossroads After Cost Cuts
    The buyout offers are seen as a big step in the carmaker's turnaround plan. Both companies still face challenges to reduce expenses.

    By John O'Dell
    Times Staff Writer

    March 23, 2006

    Moving to slash tens of thousands of workers from their payrolls, two troubled giants of the American auto industry found themselves taking a major but uncertain step Wednesday in what they hope will be a successful turnaround.

    Buyout and retirement offers to more than 125,000 General Motors Corp. and Delphi Corp. hourly workers will pay those who qualify as much as $140,000 apiece to walk away from their jobs. GM, the main customer and former parent of parts maker Delphi, agreed to foot most of the bill — estimated by some analysts at as much as $5 billion.

    GM, whose North American operations have been bleeding cash at the rate of nearly $25 million a day, hopes to trade a huge initial cost in return for long-term savings in payroll and retirement benefits. These latter expenses have helped put the Detroit automaker at a disadvantage with hard-charging rivals such as Toyota Motor Corp. of Japan.

    For the United Auto Workers union, which signed off on the landmark deal despite the disapproval of some workers, the agreements underscore that the days of lifetime employment and lucrative benefits are over — and that its ranks at GM, Delphi and other American auto companies will continue to shrink by the tens of thousands in the next few years.

    On Wednesday, GM declined to say how many workers would be allowed to accept the offers, but has said for months now that it wants to slash its North American payroll by as many as 30,000 jobs.

    Labor scholars said the number of workers involved made the buyout effort one of the largest.

    "It is historic because it is such an organized effort to manage a large downsizing," said Harley Shaiken, a UC Berkeley professor and labor specialist. "The alternatives could have been serious conflict at Delphi and a lot of damage at GM."

    GM still makes more vehicles than any other automaker but has been steadily losing market share in the U.S. to Asian and European rivals.

    GM began attempting to deal with its deteriorating financial situation a year ago but accelerated recovery plans after billionaire Los Angeles investor Kirk Kerkorian began amassing GM stock last May.

    Kerkorian, investing through his Tracinda Corp. holding company, is now GM's largest individual shareholder with 56 million shares representing a 9.9% stake. Kerkorian's chief advisor, former IBM Corp. and Chrysler Corp. financial executive Jerome York, in January called for GM to cut its stock dividend, slash executive pay, shed some operations including its money-losing Saab unit and to cut costs faster. In February, Kerkorian gained more clout when York was elected to GM's board. The same day, the board cut GM's dividend by half to $1 per share a year and announced pay cuts for top managers.

    Wednesday's retirement and buyout plans represent a big step in GM's turnaround, said auto industry analyst David Healy of Burnham Securities Inc.

    "It might be what gets them to their goal of cutting 30,000 jobs," Healy said.

    The pacts also signal a new willingness by the auto workers union to work with the companies and could foreshadow an agreement between the union and Delphi on a wage cut proposal that now threatens to cause a strike.

    "I don't think they could have been locked in a room 24/7 over the past week and come up with this retirement agreement without coming closer to an understanding on the Delphi wage situation," Healy said.

    Important as they might be, the agreements don't resolve all the problems the two companies face.

    Delphi, which sought bankruptcy protection in October, has said that if it cannot get a union agreement by March 30 on wage cuts and reductions in health benefits, it would ask the U.S. Bankruptcy Court to void its union contracts. Delphi wants to cut its hourly payroll to 11,000 from 34,000 and to reduce hourly workers' pay to as little as $12.50 an hour from the current average of $27.

    The union said it would launch a strike if the company took unilateral action on the wage issue.

    If a strike occurred, GM would lose its major source for parts and be forced to shut down production in the U.S. A prolonged strike against Delphi could cost GM about $5 billion a month in lost sales and in wages paid to idled workers, analysts said.

    Some analysts have suggested that the additional pressure of a Delphi strike could push GM itself into filing for bankruptcy protection.

    The deal with the union is only temporary relief. GM faces a new battle with workers next year. Many analysts expect the automaker to seek sweeping union concessions on wages, job security issues and health and retirement benefits as it negotiates a new multiyear contract.

    Wednesday's buyout plan "is good, but it doesn't go far enough in making the cuts GM needs so it can figure out how to make a profit making its cars," said Sean Egan, a corporate credit analyst with Egan-Jones Ratings Co. in Philadelphia.

    Some analysts also have questioned whether GM will really save much if the offer results in more retirements than buyouts. Most workers who retire will get full benefits, which won't reduce GM's sizable pension obligations, Goldman Sachs analyst Robert Barry said in a note to investors Wednesday.

    GM lost $10.6 billion last year as sales slumped. In November the company said it would trim its U.S. payroll by 30,000 jobs, "but they need to cut it by 50,000," Egan said.

    Apart from Kerkorian, GM also has been pressed for speedier action by a legion of stock and corporate credit analysts who have downgraded the company's bonds to junk investments and have watched its stock price fall by 38% in the last year. More pressure was applied last week when GM restated its 2005 financial results, boosting its annual loss by almost $2 billion. It has acknowledged that its accounting methods are being examined by federal regulators.

    GM's chief executive, Rick Wagoner, has said repeatedly that a bankruptcy filing is not an option, but he also has said that settling the Delphi situation was a major priority.

    In a statement Wednesday he said the new deal "will enhance the prospects" of a successful Delphi restructuring.

    Workers' reaction to the plan was mixed.

    It is "the best deal GM has ever given our employees, said Art Baker, chairman of UAW Local 652 at the Lansing, Mich., Cadillac plant, in an interview with Bloomberg News.

    But Donald Gale, an electrician at a Delphi plant in Coopersville, Mich., told The Times that he didn't know whether "this is going to be good news for me."

    Gale is 47 but has worked for GM and Delphi for nearly 30 years and is "counting the days until I retire."

    "It's great that I could get a chunk of money now," he said. "But I could live for another 30, 40 years, and I'll be surprised if my pension will be there 10 years from now. I'm applying for a second job. I can't afford to stop working."

    The plans don't require a vote by union members, but the portions applying to Delphi must be approved by the U.S. Bankruptcy Court.

    Although GM's stock rose as much as 68 cents Wednesday, investors apparently decided that the plan didn't solve much: The automaker's shares ended the day at $22.01, up a penny.

    As it pursues its turnaround, GM plans to close 12 assembly and parts plants and other facilities in the U.S. and Canada by 2008.

    Wednesday's agreement is another step in that downshifting, albeit at an initial cost estimated by analysts at $3 billion to $5 billion, depending on how many workers participate.

    GM said it would offer a $35,000 payment plus full pension benefits to workers at its own factories and those at Delphi who are eligible to retire after 30 years of service. The automaker also said it would make one-time payments of $70,000 to $140,000 to GM workers not eligible for retirement who would agree to quit and renounce future health and pension benefits. Workers with less than 10 years on the job would be eligible for the smaller payment.

    The buyout offer was made to all 113,000 of GM's hourly workers in the U.S. About 13,000 of Delphi's UAW workers were offered the chance to retire. As many as 5,000 Delphi workers could transfer to GM's payroll.

    The automaker said it would use a seniority system to decide who could participate if the programs became oversubscribed.

    The agreements were hashed out in talks in Detroit in the last few months — including marathon day-and-night sessions during the last week. The plans include an early retirement incentive program in lieu of an outright buyout for 27,000 workers at GM and 5,000 at Delphi who are within three years of the 30 years required for regular retirement.

    Analysts say GM, which just raised $2 billion from the sale of its 20% stake in Japan's Suzuki Motor Corp. and has $19 billion more available, would have no problem handling the payments.

    Times staff writer P.J. Huffstutter in Grand Rapids, Mich., contributed to this report.



    *

    (INFOBOX BELOW)

    Terms of the deal

    Key points of the buyouts and retirement incentives that General Motors Corp. and Delphi Corp. are offering to an eligible 113,000 hourly GM workers and 13,000 hourly Delphi workers:

    GM buyouts
    • • Employees with 10 or more years of service can get a one-time payment of $140,000.

      • Employees with less than 10 years of service would get $70,000.

      • Anyone taking this option would keep vested pension benefits but give up healthcare and other post-retirement benefits.

      Retirement from GM or Delphi



      • Anybody taking a normal or early retirement gets $35,000, retroactive to Oct. 1, 2005. Usually, employees can retire at age 65 or with 30 years of service.

      • Employees who are at least 50 years old and have worked at least 10 years can retire with full benefits.

      • Employees with at least 27 years of service but less than 30 can take a special "pre-retirement" option, under which they would receive slightly less than their full wages until they reach 30 years, at which point they can retire with full benefits.

      Returning to GM



      • GM will take back as many as 5,000 Delphi employees.

      Time frame



      • GM said once employees were notified of their options, they would be given 45 days to decide, with an additional seven days to change their minds. Delphi said similar deadlines were likely for its workers.

      • GM said it expected retirements to begin June 1. Delphi said it was still working with the UAW on a timeframe.

      • The target date for GM to take back Delphi employees is Sept. 1, 2007.


    Sources: Associated Press; UAW-GM-Delphi Special Attrition Program Framework Agreement; Delphi, GM spokesmen
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    Well combined with shitty & unoriginal designs, poor manufacturing along with an obese workforce--GM is fucked!
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    Plus it also doesn't help that all of there divisions are making the same vehicle, only with a different name.

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    Originally posted by BITEYOASS
    Well combined with shitty & unoriginal designs, poor manufacturing along with an obese workforce--GM is fucked!
    i've said it in the dump and i'll say it here

    this guy is destined for high political office

    make no mistake!
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    When he gets out, maybe 'we' can run him in OHIO.

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    If anyone wants a damn good domestic car nowadays, then I'd go with anything from Daimler-Chrysler. There the only one out of the Big 3 turning a profit.

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    GM use to be the shit and now are reduced to shit.
    I agree with Biteyoass that Daimler-Chrysler are the only one of the 3 that are making what people really want......a fucking car.
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    Originally posted by BITEYOASS
    If anyone wants a damn good domestic car nowadays, then I'd go with anything from Daimler-Chrysler. There the only one out of the Big 3 turning a profit.
    If you can consider a German owned corporation "domestic", that is.

    I swore I'd never drive another Chrysler product again after owning two Dodges in a row which were of the citrus variety, but I'm starting to reconsider.
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    Wow...BYA is right on with this. If GM had built a good car to compete with the Germans and Japanese they wouldn't be in this situation.

    The only thing GM has down-pat is their full-size pickup.

    I have a Dodge Durango that I love. But, for a passenger car I had to go Audi or Honda...and I chose Audi. Great car.
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    Hell, if I had a farm and needed a Dodge Ram; it would have Rhino lining on the bed, a hydraulic winch in the front, special shocks & Tires for my Baja 1000 competition and a V-10 Hemi! I feel like doing a Tim Allen grunt right now! arrr, arrrr, arrr

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    I drive a Ford..I'm more worried about my Satellite radio.........
    From 34,000 to 11,000 ...and wages cut from $27 to $ 12...
    Greedy bastards...that is fucked up..god forbid your profits go from absurd to rediculous...
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    Originally posted by Nickdfresh
    When he gets out, maybe 'we' can run him in OHIO.
    LOL I doubt I'll win, due to the fact that I was born and Raised in Michigan and have an extensive Michigan St. Spartan collection. I definitely don't want to run for office due to the fact that my views will make both parties hate me and I have a penchant for swearing during debates. More than likely I want to put the kick-ass back in Rock by starting a band! Haven't really thought of a concept, maybe southern psychedelic groove metal. I'll be writing songs about nightmares, going ballistic in times of stress, being screwed by the man, wanderng down various city streets, war, stuck in isolated parts of the world and hallucinating due to lack of sleep. The whole love, partying and political shit has been done too many times. Plus it helps for me to have total silence and not listen to any music for a number of days at a time.

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    When they can finally address the bloated compensation packages for board members that contribute NOTHING and dissolve the UAW...GM will swim in its own blood.

    They deserve to.

    They've fucked every decent car they had.

    The Camaro...gen 1=stellar.
    gen 2=dog. gen 3=better. gen 4= fucking mess. gen 5=a fucked Caddy front end on a redesigned 1st gen back...with the same old engine!

    The Corvette...gen 1=Driver's paradise. gen 2=smaller. gen 3= better, gen 4= ugh...300zx ate its lunch! gen 5=bald man's penis replacement. gen 6=oh fuck no!

    Meanwhile DC has been turning a profit only because of its Benz nameplates overseas and the "every 6 months we're turning out a new car promise" here in the states. They're able to take advantage of a bolder, more consumer friendly research to churn out cars people want to drive...ever drove the 300 hemi? That bitch is badass! The new Challlenger is gonna be a smash unless they limit production and fuck it all up trying to create a collector's car.

    I have a '04 Ford F150 SuperCrew Lariat that I might trade in on a 2nd/3rd year model of the new Challenger. If they can make a RT, hemi, convertable, white top/leather in plum crazy...I won't be a Ford truck man for long.

    I won't drive an underperformed 4 or 6 cylinder Jap car and I have other things to spend my money on than an "ultimate driving machine". I don't make enough jack to drive an Italian performance "car".

    Cars are a poor investment and I don't buy them to garage and wash them. I drive them and use them for recreation and work. The "big"3 have gone the quick and easy road of building a car that breaks down before the average joe pays it off or they're upside down on it and have to drive it until the wheels fall off. The price keeps going up and when we look at a car and think under 20,000.00 is a good price...we've been screwed by the "man". His salary keeps going up. Fuck 'em throw 'em on the fire...they'll burn.
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    That might be your best post ever AssVibe...

    Very good points...

    Detroit needs to pull its head out of its ass and begin to make better cars...

    Although, one small fact that people miss is that the US produces better, higher quality cars that Europe does, at least as far as reliability goes...

    And really, the only Japanese companies worth a shit are Toyota and Honda, Mitsubishi is tanking and Nissan (which I own) are spotty and always catching up...
    Last edited by Nickdfresh; 03-23-2006 at 08:15 PM.

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    I believe the Germans have the car production down pat and everyone else is playing catch-up. Those BMW's, Audi's, Benz's and VW's are built for the long haul, especially the luxury models. The entry class is for wannabees that need a key ring to brag about.

    America has been down this road before and didn't learn its lesson. Now history is repeating and the "man" still wants more.

    Oh, he'll burn.

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    Originally posted by DrMaddVibe
    I believe the Germans have the car production down pat and everyone else is playing catch-up. Those BMW's, Audi's, Benz's and VW's are built for the long haul, especially the luxury models. The entry class is for wannabees that need a key ring to brag about.

    America has been down this road before and didn't learn its lesson. Now history is repeating and the "man" still wants more.

    Oh, he'll burn.
    I don't know, that used to be true, but in all seriousness, I think they're coasting on reputation. Some BMWs, and especially Mercs, have some bad electrical problems... I've known at least two people that heve dumped their Beemers for Acuras because of this...

    And the new VWs have severe slugging problems with their newer engines (poor design)...

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    I haven't seen the problems that you mentioned, especially on the luxury models, and I sure as hell haven't heard of someone jumping from a BMW or Benz into an Awrecka.

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    VW is coasting on it's reputation. They have had lots of quality problems the last few years. Benz quality is not what it was either. GM and Ford have better quality than both and many of GM cars have just as good or better quality than Jap vehicles. As usual, perception lags reality so it will take people a few years to figure it out.
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    Originally posted by Nickdfresh
    I don't know, that used to be true, but in all seriousness, I think they're coasting on reputation. Some BMWs, and especially Mercs, have some bad electrical problems... I've known at least two people that heve dumped their Beemers for Acuras because of this...

    And the new VWs have severe slugging problems with their newer engines (poor design)...

    True. My A6 is a little sluggish off the start as are the Passats. However, it's the only complaint I have about the entire car. Other cars in its class have a little more juice off of the line, but the feel of an Audi is what appealed to me. Also, the Quattro system comes in handy up here in Northern Minnesota when the roads are shitty, which is more often than not.

    One of my closest friends bought a new Chevy Impala a year ago. He took me for a ride in it and the fucking thing sounded like a wind storm inside. It was horrible. In the Audi...barely a hint of road noise.

    All of this said, I will probably look closely at the Accord hybrid next time. My parents have a Camry that is also a great car. I might consider one of those, too.

    I gotta admit that the 300M is a nice looking machine, though.

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    Try Castrol SYNTEC 0W-30...

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    Originally posted by Nickdfresh
    Try Castrol SYNTEC 0W-30...

    You talkin' to me?

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    Originally posted by Nickdfresh


    And the new VWs have severe slugging problems with their newer engines (poor design)...
    Is that the gas engines, turbo diesels or both?

    Actually some friends of mine just recently got a Eurovan, and I was amazed how quick it was for a van.

    I think it's time VW re-entered the pickup market again. I was surprised that the 80's model (based on the Rabbit/Golf) didn't last longer. True they had a "concept" truck at recent autoshows that was an update of the 60's microbus modification model, but they don't neccessarily have to go with that design.

    I have heard a few bad things about recent VW models, and if so, that's a damn shame. They used to be good cars.

  23. #23
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    Hey, this is what happens when the youth of today flocks to Handa, Nissan and Toyota lots to buy cars because, "They run better, Baaaaahhhhhhhhhh".

    The government outsources our jobs and our american idiots just hand them more money in sales...which is also unfair trade on our end.
    One of my brothers kids swear by foreign cars, the other, they're Mopar maniacs just like me.

    Hell, my 11 year old has more pride in her country than the entire "Tuner" population.
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    Originally posted by Cathedral
    Hey, this is what happens when the youth of today flocks to Handa, Nissan and Toyota lots to buy cars because, "They run better, Baaaaahhhhhhhhhh".

    The government outsources our jobs and our american idiots just hand them more money in sales...which is also unfair trade on our end.
    One of my brothers kids swear by foreign cars, the other, they're Mopar maniacs just like me.

    Hell, my 11 year old has more pride in her country than the entire "Tuner" population.
    Honda and Toyota build cars in the US. and Mopar is owned by the Germans. How is one more or less an "American" company than the other anymore?

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    I had a Mexican made Chevrolet Suburban. It burned oil like crazy after the engine break in. After a big go around with the dealer they finally installed a new engine. Problem fixed.

    I use the four wheel drive quite a bit. I had it stick in Nuetral and wouldn't switch out of it. Computer problem. Good thing I had a cell phone because I was in the middle of nowhere stranded.

    The front transaxle had catastrophic failure at 3,000 miles. $4000 repair.

    The car cost $40,000

    I then traded the piece of shit on a GM Hummer. Font end problems, transmission problems, and electrical problems.

    Got rid of that and bought a used Range Rover. No problems. It's a tank. Had the power seats blow a fuse. That's it. The best four wheel drive I've ever owned and I had them all.

    Inherited my brothers Mercedes G Wagon. Great vehicle. In short, a German Land Rover.

    For what these GM pieces of shit cost, get a quality vehicle. Volvo, Audi, Lexus, and some Mercedes are great buys on the used market.
    The best car I ever owned was a Mercedes 500. Tanks that drive great and keep on going forever.
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    Volvos are still great cars. You can't go wrong with Hondas or Toyotas. Right now for Luxery runaround, Lexus beats anything out of Germany. Most die hard Mercedes people I know now drive a Lexus. BMW right now is a joke. I like their motorcycles but their cars aren't what they should be.

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    Originally posted by FORD
    Is that the gas engines, turbo diesels or both?

    Actually some friends of mine just recently got a Eurovan, and I was amazed how quick it was for a van.

    I think it's time VW re-entered the pickup market again. I was surprised that the 80's model (based on the Rabbit/Golf) didn't last longer. True they had a "concept" truck at recent autoshows that was an update of the 60's microbus modification model, but they don't neccessarily have to go with that design.

    I have heard a few bad things about recent VW models, and if so, that's a damn shame. They used to be good cars.
    These are the only Volkswagens I bother with...
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    Originally posted by FORD
    Honda and Toyota build cars in the US. and Mopar is owned by the Germans. How is one more or less an "American" company than the other anymore?

    The numbers my man, German Engineering has never impacted domestic sales the way the foreign whores have.
    But don't take that as support of Germany either, it's still a foreign car.

    But in defense of Germany, Mopar is still run domestically and pays an equal share into the american market whereas Toyota, Honda and Nissan do not.
    Though that may change in the next several years since it was announced that the '09-'10 Dodge Challenger is being slightly re-styled by Mercedes R&D Department to make the car thinner and able to meet industry standard requirements. it is changing, but not much from the concept, and it WILL be sporting a 6.1 Hemi which is a direct throwback to the 426 Hemi of the first Muscle Era.
    On the plus side, with Mercedes involved and their love for the original Challenger and Cuda line, the emphasis is more on building a bitchin car than a freeaking newer version of a Aries-K car which American designers always come up with.

    You'll have a limited run the first year, and then if sales go well the second year will introduce a V-6 model with a few more of the R/T 6.1 Hemi models.
    The Charger is said to be getting a more retro face lift as well since the LY platform will be skinnier than the concept Challenger and the wheel base lengthened a little (about 4-6 inches), and it will offer a 2-door version with an optional pistol grip stick shift.
    The Cuda' is also set to return under the Chrysler badge, and will be little more than a re-styled Challenger...the originals shared very little with each other beyond looks and were two completely different cars structurally, despite the popular opinion of the uneducated Mopar fans.

    The Germans know how a partnership works, and that deserves the respect of the american worker.
    But if Bush has his way he'll destroy that relationship too.

    Us Mopar freaks, though very pissed when Diamler first took over, are greatful for their deep pockets and little need for more money...if that changes then they'll end up just like the other foreign whores.

    Until then, they support the american worker with it's Mopar lines.

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    Originally posted by Little Texan
    These are the only Volkswagens I bother with...
    Yeah, I have an uncle who's into restoring old VW's. He bought an old bug (67 maybe?) and restored that one and then he got a Karmann-Ghia that he totally pimped out in some unnatural shade of burgundy that the Germans never thought of painting it.

    I know they still manufactured the old Bugs in Mexico up until a couple years ago.

    Anyone in Texas try to sneak one across the border?

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    Originally posted by FORD

    Anyone in Texas try to sneak one across the border?
    I'm sure quite a few people have. I used to dream about smuggling one over here. I've liked VW Bugs since I was in diapers...always thought they were neat little cars.

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    Originally posted by Cathedral
    Us Mopar freaks, though very pissed when Diamler first took over
    i wasn't. i've always wanted a Mercedes...and was planning on getting one until that Challenger concept hit.
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    Originally posted by twonabomber
    i wasn't. i've always wanted a Mercedes...and was planning on getting one until that Challenger concept hit.
    That's understandable, but the loyalists, those of us who have love affairs for the classics, were cold to the idea for awhile.

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    Originally posted by FORD
    If you can consider a German owned corporation "domestic", that is.

    I swore I'd never drive another Chrysler product again after owning two Dodges in a row which were of the citrus variety, but I'm starting to reconsider.
    To be fair, Daimler-Chrysler is a transnational corporation.

    It was a merger between two companies, a German one and an American one.

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    Originally posted by Roy Munson
    You talkin' to me?
    Yes, SYNTEC 0W-30 is known as "German Castrol" because it's imported from Germany (look for this on the back label, because there's an old pre-2002 American brand). The American-made SYNTEC sold here cannot be called "synthetic" in Europe because they essentially are just using crude oil with better refining processes... So their oils for Euro-cars are all imported now to meet the ACEA A3 (performance car) spec.

    Anyways, that's supposedly the best oil you can get, and it's hard to find, check AUTOZONE...

    If you can't find it, then I'd suggest Mobil1 0W-40, 15W-50, or 5W-40 when it comes out...
    Last edited by Nickdfresh; 03-24-2006 at 11:25 AM.

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    Originally posted by FORD
    Is that the gas engines, turbo diesels or both?


    Turbos, 1.8LT actually...

    Their diesels and the VR6 are still bulletproof, but you should still use a synthetic oil...

    Actually some friends of mine just recently got a Eurovan, and I was amazed how quick it was for a van.

    I think it's time VW re-entered the pickup market again. I was surprised that the 80's model (based on the Rabbit/Golf) didn't last longer. True they had a "concept" truck at recent autoshows that was an update of the 60's microbus modification model, but they don't neccessarily have to go with that design.

    I have heard a few bad things about recent VW models, and if so, that's a damn shame. They used to be good cars.
    The VW SUV which I can't remember, also called the PORECHE CAYENNE, has had some serious problems...

    I think VW tends to rely on older technology for their engines, then rush in new replacements...

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    Originally posted by FORD
    Honda and Toyota build cars in the US. and Mopar is owned by the Germans. How is one more or less an "American" company than the other anymore?
    LOL CAT, HONDA's are made in your state!

    And some tuners do mod Chevys/Fords...

  37. #37
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    Originally posted by Nickdfresh
    Although, one small fact that people miss is that the US produces better, higher quality cars that Europe does, at least as far as reliability goes...
    You cannot be serious man!

    US cars generally come loaded with lots of toys but they're fookin' attrocious to drive. It's laughable how primitive the handling is on some of them. It's almost as though the engineers have never heard of independent suspension or roads with corners.

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    Originally posted by Mr Grimsdale
    You cannot be serious man!

    US cars generally come loaded with lots of toys but they're fookin' attrocious to drive.

    It's laughable how primitive the handling is on some of them. It's almost as though the engineers have never heard of independent suspension or roads with corners.
    This I agree with, which is why I've tended to prefer Nipponese Rice-Rockets...

    But I was speaking specifically about long term reliability, not drive-ability...

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    Originally posted by Nickdfresh
    Yes, SYNTEC 0W-30 is known as "German Castrol" because it's imported from Germany (look for this on the back label, because there's an old pre-2002 American brand). The American-made SYNTEC sold here cannot be called "synthetic" in Europe because they essentially are just using crude oil with better refining processes... So their oils for Euro-cars are all imported now to meet the ACEA A3 (performance car) spec.

    Anyways, that's supposedly the best oil you can get, and it's hard to find, check AUTOZONE...

    If you can't find it, then I'd suggest Mobil1 0W-40, 15W-50, or 5W-40 when it comes out...

    Thanks much!!!

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    Originally posted by Nickdfresh
    LOL CAT, HONDA's are made in your state!

    And some tuners do mod Chevys/Fords...

    Haaaa haaaa, what, do you think you made a point or something?
    Toyota's are made in my state too, Nick. so what exactly is your point?

    Tell me how many American workers are supported per 100 Honda's sold and we'll see just exactly what your point is.
    We're not speaking paychecks here, we're talking about returned investment into our american economy.

    And yeah, i am aware of the rare instance a tuner mods a damn American car, lol.
    Even in the group of sheep you hang with there is a smart one here and there....like Ford., so all tuner's aren't dumb.

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