Tube Amp in a Pedal?

[25%moreCOWBELL]

Tube Amp in a Pedal?

If anyone knows or has tried this.... does placing a pedal with a true tube in it (www.tonebone.com) in front of your solid state amp give you a poor mans tube amp? Or does the very nature of the solid state amp kill whatever organic tube sounds the pedal is producing?

Has anyone gotten a tube amp sound from a solid state amp by using a tube based effects pedal?

[Sleeper Cell]

solid state is still solid state, so any kind of warmth you get from a tube amp simulator will still get processed and 'squashed' by the solid state technology. You may have a sound that is closer to a tube amp, tube pre amp or tube distortion simulation, but solid state will cut the 'headroom' that a true tube amp delivers. i have been playin for 20 years and have exclusively used a Matchless DC-30 fo rthe past 12 years--nothing compares to the sweet sounds of it.




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[Coyote]

Originally posted by Sleeper Cell
solid state is still solid state, so any kind of warmth you get from a tube amp simulator will still get processed and 'squashed' by the solid state technology. You may have a sound that is closer to a tube amp, tube pre amp or tube distortion simulation, but solid state will cut the 'headroom' that a true tube amp delivers. i have been playin for 20 years and have exclusively used a Matchless DC-30 fo rthe past 12 years--nothing compares to the sweet sounds of it.




TSC

Well, that pretty much squashed my theory...

[Mr Grimsdale]

pricey but nicey

http://www.guitarexperience.co.uk/ht...rod&prodID=339

[Matt White]

Nothing wrong with a "solid-state" sound....look at what Dimebag did all those years....

You have to buy a Tube amp to get the warmth though.......

[Nitro Express]

Tubes get more overtones because of the way they work. Basically the ineficient nature of tubes give the the sonic quality we love. Solid state is more efficient and tends to clip the overtones and that's why solid state sounds cold. There are transistors called mosfets that work more ineficiently; therefore, giving a warmer sound but they still sound cold.

There's preamp distortion and power amp distortion. A tube powered peddled can give you preamp distortion but you need the big power tubes and the transformer to get a overdriven amp sound.

Some solid state stuff sounds good but will never sound like a tube and some tube stuff sounds good with a transistor powered peddle infront of it. The classic sounds of Hendrix, Page, and Townsend were all a transistor powered fuzz peddle in front of a tube amp at variouse volumes. So there has always been transistors involved in the classic rock sound.

Eddie Van Halen used H-H solid state power amps in his live rig to amplify his Marshall generated tone. The Classic VH tone was partly due to a solid state Phase 90 and solid state flanger.

I would say a classic rock tone is a little bit of tube and solid state mixed together.

By the way, some tube stuff sounds like shit. I would rather use a solid state Randall ampl over some tube amps out there. Tubes don't alway sound good.

[BrownSound1]

A tube crammed into a pedal doesn't necessarily give you great tube tone, even if you're using a tube amp. The tubes in those pedals are 12AX7s more often than not, and the distortion from most of the classic guys are a result of their power tubes being cranked. An overdriven preamp tube sounds fairly buzzy in most cases, which is one of my pet peeves with most modern high gain amps. You can warm a solid state amp up a bit with a tube pedal, but it isn't going to sound like a cranked tube amp.

If you take Ed's tone as a reference then it goes something like this. He took his Plexi and ran it into a dummy load. A signal was taken from the dummy load into his effects, and then to his H&H power amp. From there it went to his Marshall cabs. The solid state power amp could have been substituted for a tube power amp and the tone would have been the same. This was the VH1 setup in a nutshell.

On VHII, Ed did not run the dummy load rig when recording, instead opting for a straight head to cabinet, with the effects on the front end of the amp. There is a slight difference in tone from the first to second album, but that's as much the result of a different studio as anything. Not using the resistive dummy load did change it up a little as well.

Now we know that Ed used an MXR Phase 90 and an MXR Flanger, but these were not on every song, and yet the basic tone is still the same. An overlooked effect that he used even more was an Echoplex, but I'm not sure if it was the tube version or the solid state version. While these effects do color the sound, they are not the basis for it.

We do know that Hendrix, Page, and Townshend used fuzz boxes quite a bit, but you can instantly tell when they are. Much of Hendrix's use of the fuzz was to kick in a boost of solos, but his rhythm tone is mostly his old Marshall. Page used a fuzz early on in Led Zeppelin, but pretty much stopped after Led Zeppelin II, except for one here and there on a couple of recordings. Page and Hendrix both used the fuzzes to produce over the top distortion that sounded like the amp was going to break. That's a cool effect, but that's all it is, and it is one that is easily noticed.

The point I'm trying to make with this is while yes there are some great rock tones that are the result of using solid state devices, most of them have a tube amp at the foundation. I would say that the "classic rock tone" is a cranked tube amp with some splashes of various effects added in from time to time.

Now back to the original question...no a tube pedal will not make a solid state amp sound like a tube amp.

[Hardrock69]

If the solid-state amp being used at all is worth a damn, it will work as a clean power amp.

Therefore, any nice tube sound created with a pre-amp, fuzzbox, distortion pedal, etc. should translate out the back end just as it goes in the front.

Right now I am using a rack mount ART SGX2000 FX processor with a single 12AX7 in it to run through my Crate transistor combo amp set on clean.

It sounds exactly the same as the sound direct out of the preamp.

Like GOD!

[Sleeper Cell]

Originally posted by Hardrock69
Therefore, any nice tube sound created with a pre-amp, fuzzbox, distortion pedal, etc. should translate out the back end just as it goes in the front.

Right now I am using a rack mount ART SGX2000 FX processor with a single 12AX7 in it to run through my Crate transistor combo amp set on clean.

It sounds exactly the same as the sound direct out of the preamp.

Like GOD!

I got to disagree with this a little bit. I am by no means suggesting that you can't enhance the tone of a solid state amplifier with a tube pre-amp, but I am saying that solid state technology doesn't allow for the tonal analog anomalies that give a tube amp the sounds we all love. Sure, you are adding a single 12ax7 tube pre-amp to your solid state rig, but you are missing the tube power amp section and the pentode tube rectifier too... It is nearly impossible for a solid state amp to produce the headroom that a tube amp replaces. The headroom is gained by being able to drive the tubes to the point of breaking up--this is a similar idea to how EVH used the variac to 'alter' his amp. The variac trick is similar to the modern day power soak (by marshall). It allows you to run the tubes full out, but have a manageable volume coming form the amp. This pushing of the tubes gives you the cum-in-yer-pants tone you seek.

I have never heard a SS amp that sounds like a tuber to me...not saying anything against solid state--there are some good sounding ss amps...Dimebag however, used SS with a HEAVILY processed signal to create that monster sound he had...They are just two different beasts, that's all

True that somem tube amps sound like shit--lotta times this is the result of crap-ass tubes, or an amp that needs to be biased...watch out for that b+ voltage..


Let your ears decide...one of my favourite amps, the Roland JC120 is about as SS as you can get.


tsc

[BrownSound1]

I have yet to see a Variac used like a Power Brake or Hotplate. Edward supposedly varied the voltage going to the amp, which at a lower voltage (90 volts) caused the amp to distort a bit quicker. The volume drop is so small that you'll never really notice it. Of course if you're going to run your amp at a lower voltage, then you should rebias your amp to run at that voltage. Also, the heater voltage for the tubes is going to be different, which may effect tube life (it will!)

A Power Brake, Hotplate, or Power Soak goes between the amp and the speaker and allows you to crank your amp to full, but adjust the volume you hear. The Variac plugs into an AC outlet, and then you plug the amp into the Variac.

[Hardrock69]

Yeah the JC120 is the ultimate clean amp.

But I stand by my opinion about my Crate amp.

Though I agree that solid state can never replace tubes, it is possible to get to a point where one cannot tell the difference.

[Matt White]

I always liked Randal amps......


but MARSHALL is the ultimate tone.......

To my ears, anyway...

[Hardrock69]

I agree.

[BrownSound1]

Originally posted by Hardrock69
Yeah the JC120 is the ultimate clean amp.

But I stand by my opinion about my Crate amp.

Though I agree that solid state can never replace tubes, it is possible to get to a point where one cannot tell the difference.

I think it will HAVE to get to that point at some time. I can't see tubes being made forever. However, there's a lot of tube equipment that's continued to be made so I could be wrong. As long as there is a demand they'll be made I guess.

[Nitro Express]

I used to have a 5150 amp. They sound like shit until you get the power tube stage going. All those preamp tube stages sound buzzy as hell and are useless until the power amp goes into clipping. Then the amp sounds good.

I think from the oppinions in here, it's deffinately power tube clipping and how that reacts with the speaker and output transformer that gets the magic sound. For some reason, a good old Marshall is one of the best at nailing a tottaly magical overdrive tone.

In a true sense, a good tube powerstage becomes like a peddle. Oh you are getting lots of juice to run a speaker cab and it's loud as shit but you can tap that sound off with a speaker simulator and turn it into a line signal. In this sense you can make a 100 watt Marshall an effects peddle. That's what Eddie did with his Palmer speaker simulator and H-H power amps. He just used the Marshall to get the tone and he needed those big EL-34 tubes to get the sound more than the power they generated.

[Sleeper Cell]

Thankfully for those of us with tube amps, there is still a pretty good supply of NOS (new,old stock) tubes available on the 'net, and there are still a few people actually making tubes, like Groove Tubes. The GT guys have great stuff, and if you ever call them to chat about tubes, they are cool as hell and totally helpful...




Where would rock and roll be without the Marshall amp?? The mind fairly reels...

[BlimpyCHIMP™]

Originally posted by Sleeper Cell
Where would rock and roll be without the Marshall amp??

VOX BABY

BC!!
http://dobermanamps.com/shop/index.p...&products_id=4

[Mr Grimsdale]

Originally posted by Sleeper Cell
Where would rock and roll be without the Marshall amp??

Hank Marvin

...and that's not rhyming slang