True Musical Geniuses

[Shaun Ponsonby]

Not just people you really like. People who should go down in history.

This sounds stupid, but I'm gonna say Smokey Robinson.

Whether you like that style of music or not, you've got to admit what he did was incredible. No only was he the leader of "The Miracles", he also wrote many many songs for just about every other atrist on the Motown label, he produced most of the songs he wrote (and, thats A LOT of hits), he did a lot of business stuff with Berry Gordy-all in a relatively short space of time.

[binnie]

Ok, off the top of my head...

David Bowie

Jimi Hendrix

Jimmy Page (I know you aren't gonna agree SP)

Robert Johnson

Trent Reznor

Prince (I know he's made some shit, but not many people blend so many styles)

Miles Davis

John Coltrane

[binnie]

BTW, fantastic idea for a thread!


Although "genius" gets banded around very liberally by the music thread. I once read it used to describe the Stereophonics.......

[Coyote]

Frank Zappa

Quincy Jones

[Shaun Ponsonby]

Originally posted by binnie
Ok, off the top of my head...

David Bowie

Jimi Hendrix

Jimmy Page (I know you aren't gonna agree SP)

Robert Johnson

Trent Reznor

Prince (I know he's made some shit, but not many people blend so many styles)

Miles Davis

John Coltrane

Bowie and Prince-certainly. They are 2 people who have varied their style so much in their lifetimes.

And, the jazz folks go without saying.

[binnie]

I'm actually gonna add Rick Rubin to my list, producers are often as important........

[Shaun Ponsonby]

To prove my point about Smokey Robinson, here are the albums that he himself recorded whilst writing, producing and doing business for other acts on the Motown label...


Hi, We're The Miracles (Tamla 1961)

Cookin' With The Miracles (Tamla 1962)

I'll Try Something New (Tamla 1962)

The Fabulous Miracles (Tamla 1963)

Recorded Live: On Stage (Tamla 1963)

Christmas With The Miracles (Tamla 1963)

The Miracles Doin-Mickey's Monkey'(Tamla 1963)

Going To A Go-Go (Tamla 1965)

I Like It Like That (Tamla 1965)

Away We A Go-Go (Tamla 1966)

Make It Happen (Tamla 1967)

Special Occasion (Tamla 1968)

Live! (Tamla 1969)

Time Out For Smokey Robinson And The Miracles (Tamla 1969)

Four In Blue (Tamla 1969)

What Love Has Joined Together (Tamla 1970)

A Pocket Full Of Miracles (Tamla 1970)

The Season For Miracles (Tamla 1970)

One Dozen Roses (Tamla 1971)

Flying High Together (Tamla 1972)

Renaissance (Tamla 1973)

Smokey (Tamla 1973)

Do It Baby (Tamla 1974)

Pure Smokey (Tamla 1974)

Don't Cha Love It (Tamla 1975)

City Of Angels (Tamla 1975)

A Quiet Storm (Tamla 1975)

The Power Of Music (Tamla 1976)

Smokey's Family Robinson (Tamla 1976)

Love Crazy (Columbia 1977)

Deep In My Soul (Tamla 1977)

The Miracles (Columbia 1978)

Big Time (Tamla 1977)

Love Breeze (Tamla 1978)

Smokin' (Tamla 1978)

Where There's Smoke (Tamla 1979)

Warm Thoughts (Tamla 1980)

Being With You (Tamla 1981)

Yes It's You Lady (Tamla 1982)

Touch The Sky (Tamla 1983)

Blame It On Love (Tamla 1983)

Essar (Tamla 1984)

Smoke Signals (Tamla 1985)

One Heartbeat (Motown 1987)

Love, Smokey (Motown 1990)

Double Good Everything (SBK 1991)

Intimate (Motown 1999)

Food for the Spirit (CNR Records 2004)

[Mr. Vengeance]

Absolutely, Prince is way at the top of this list. The sheer amount of music he creates is mind boggling. Very much like Zappa in that respect.

I'm going to add Johnny Cash to the list for the songs and their simplicity. He also could do ANY song and make it pure Cash.

[sadaist]

I'm more concerned with the ones who are going down in history & shouldn't like Kurt Cobain.

But I think Jon Anderson & Chris Squire are underrated. Then possibly Rick Allen for doing what he did on the drums after losing an arm. Incredible.

[sadaist]

Oh yeah...the Beastie Boys. NO SLEEP TILL!!!.......BROOKLYN!!!

Really breaking the stereotype of black-only rap. And also mixing in guitars and drums rather than just a mixing board. Started a whole new genre. Not one that I a especially enjoy, but one nonetheless.

[Matt White]

Originally posted by Shaun Ponsonby
Not just people you really like. People who should go down in history.

This sounds stupid, but I'm gonna say Smokey Robinson.

Bob Dylan has called Smokey the "GRATEST AMERICAN POET"

So...yeah...he qualifies....

Stevie Wonder too.............................

[Terry]

Sometimes killer rock stars don't necessarily cross the realm into musical genius.

Two musical geniuses I can easily name off the top of my head are:

Frank Zappa

Jimi Hendrix

Jimmy Page? BRILLIANT COMPOSER. Musical genius? Maybe...

Prince is, without a doubt, a musical genius.

Stevie Wonder, agreed.

Miles Davis, agreed.

Beastie Boys? Mmmmmm...no.

Dylan is a brilliant lyricist.

I do agree that the term 'genius' clearly is applied to many who, IMO, don't deserve it.

[rustoffa]

Pretty good list.

A few more.

Harry Nilsson

Brian Wilson

Carole King

Buddy Holly

[Matt White]

LES PAUL

[Terry]

Originally posted by rustoffa
Pretty good list.

A few more.

Harry Nilsson

Brian Wilson

Carole King

Buddy Holly

Yeah, I'd include Wilson, agreed.

Holly was brilliant, too.

Nilsson and King I can't say, as I really haven't heard enough of their stuff. Have heard a BIT of king, but virtually nothing of Harry at all...

[rustoffa]

Originally posted by Terry
Yeah, I'd include Wilson, agreed.

Holly was brilliant, too.

Nilsson and King I can't say, as I really haven't heard enough of their stuff. Have heard a BIT of king, but virtually nothing of Harry at all...

IMO, Nilsson was like a slightly more sane Roky Erickson. I should take alot of heat for that. He wrote alot of songs, and could tackle any genre.

King's just a songwriter's songwriter. I've got an old compilation of Punk bands covering her Tapestry album somewhere. LMFAO....I think JFA did smackwater jack!

[Wawazat]

Wayne Coyne

[binnie]

Isn't it interesting that, on a hard rock website, most of the guys were picking out don't fit into that style of music?


How about

Tony Iommi?

What he did is still being repeated to this day........

[knerken]

Michael Jackson.
Even though he fucks small boys for inspiration, his music is genius!

"Thriller", "Off The Wall" and "Bad" are brilliant masterpieces.

"Dangerous", "Blood On The Dancefloor" and "Invincible" are not as good as T, OTW and B, but still great!

[Sugar-Dave]

Edward Van Halen, Freddie Mercury and Les Paul

[Mr Badguy]

Just about everyone who has ever been in Yes.

When they`re not making Yes albums then they`re doing solo albums.

Check out Jon Anderson`s "Olias of Sunhillow", probably the strangest "rock" album I`ve got.

Nothing on it sounds like traditional rock instruments and it`s mind boggling that it is the work of one man and a home recording studio.

[binnie]

Originally posted by knerken
Michael Jackson.
Even though he fucks small boys for inspiration, his music is genius!

"Thriller", "Off The Wall" and "Bad" are brilliant masterpieces.

"Dangerous", "Blood On The Dancefloor" and "Invincible" are not as good as T, OTW and B, but still great!

mmmmm, gonna have to disagree.

Very talented, yes.

Genius - no


I don't think there is enough depth there for him to be called a genius....

[m_dixon1984]

I'm gonna add...

Leonard Cohen
Willie Dixon
Buddy Guy
John Mayall

...before this thread gets taken over with Rock and Roll heroes.

M

[Shaun Ponsonby]

Originally posted by knerken
Michael Jackson.
Even though he fucks small boys for inspiration, his music is genius!

"Thriller", "Off The Wall" and "Bad" are brilliant masterpieces.

"Dangerous", "Blood On The Dancefloor" and "Invincible" are not as good as T, OTW and B, but still great!

I'm inclined to agree, but, most of "Thriller" and "Off The Wall" was written by Rod Temperton, and a few others. I think MJ only wrote 3 songs on "Off The Wall", and 4 on "Thriller".

However, considering that (to my knowledge) he doesn't play an instrument, and yet managed to write so many massive hits with string and horn arrangements...

[Shaun Ponsonby]

Originally posted by Mr Badguy
Just about everyone who has ever been in Yes.

When they`re not making Yes albums then they`re doing solo albums.

Check out Jon Anderson`s "Olias of Sunhillow", probably the strangest "rock" album I`ve got.

Nothing on it sounds like traditional rock instruments and it`s mind boggling that it is the work of one man and a home recording studio.

Indeed...

The best thing about Yes is that they've never had weak musicians.


Here's one-Neal Morse. Even though he quit being in a band to do religious prog (usually with Mike Portnoy on drums), he varies his stuff so much and is so consistent that I think he should certainly go in the category. He's only made one bad album, which could be blamed on the fact that whilst making it, his newborn daughter was close to death.

[binnie]

Ahhh, you mention "genius" and all the prog fans come out of the woodwork!

Lets have someone from the opposite spectrum,


all of The Ramones!

[binnie]

Lou Reed.....

[Shaun Ponsonby]

The Ramones?

Seriously, BIG difference. Prog musicians HAVE to be at almost genius.

[Redballjets88]

the ramones? if you are going to go that route use Iggy Pop or the New York Dolls

[binnie]

Originally posted by Shaun Ponsonby
The Ramones?

Seriously, BIG difference. Prog musicians HAVE to be at almost genius.

I like prog, so don't get me wrong.


Sometimes genius is about songs, and The Ramones have plenty that'll last forever. Musicianship wise, The Ramones are genius in a minimalist way. Every 4/4 punk band after owes a lot to them.....

[Redballjets88]

and the Ramones owe a lot to the dolls bc the dolls basically created the NYC punk scene

[binnie]

Originally posted by Redballjets88
and the Ramones owe a lot to the dolls bc the dolls basically created the NYC punk scene

Without question, the Dolls were awesome.

However, The Ramones really set the template by taking the glam out of the Dolls.

Everyone owes a lot to an influence somewhere along the line....

[Redballjets88]

but we are talking about geniuses and inevators here with no nydolls there is no ramones/sex pistols/clash

[Shaun Ponsonby]

Not innovators

GENIUSES

[binnie]

Originally posted by Redballjets88
but we are talking about geniuses and inevators here with no nydolls there is no ramones/sex pistols/clash

Absolutely, but everyone has an influence.


Without Robert Johnson there is no

Eric Clapton

jimi Hendrix

Aerosmith

Led Zeppelin

The Doors

Stevie Ray Vaughan

Black Sabbath

etc etc etc

But most of the people on that list would still be categorised as being at genius level.

You could say without Iggy Pop there is no New York Dolls....or without Elvis there is no New York Dolls.....

The point I am trying to make is, no-one is ever 100% original, but that doesn't discount them from being a genius.

[Redballjets88]

in a way to be an innovator you have to have some sort of genius

[Shaun Ponsonby]

So Elvis is an innovator,because he was the first whiteboy to sing that music.

But, he relied onb others to write, so he's not a genius.

[Shaun Ponsonby]

Originally posted by binnie
I like prog, so don't get me wrong.


Sometimes genius is about songs, and The Ramones have plenty that'll last forever. Musicianship wise, The Ramones are genius in a minimalist way. Every 4/4 punk band after owes a lot to them.....

Can't comment-not a punk fan.

See what I mean about the word genius being overused. I've never known any non-punk fan to like a RAMONES song, but I know plenty of non-prog songs to like a few Yes songs.

[binnie]

Originally posted by Shaun Ponsonby
So Elvis is an innovator,because he was the first whiteboy to sing that music.

But, he relied onb others to write, so he's not a genius.

No, Elvis wasn't a genius in my opinion, but many think he was.

however, not many people have been more influencial.

The point I was making is that it is impossible to 100% original, everyone is influenced by something because nothing that is created happens in a void.

[binnie]

Oh, and lets put Iggy Pop on that list.