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Thread: Israel Takes A Stupid Pill

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    Israel Takes A Stupid Pill

    Israel Takes A Stupid Pill

    By Larry Johnson

    Apparently not content to let the U.S. do a self-immolation act in the Middle East by itself, Israel decided to set itself on fire by invading Lebanon. Burn baby burn?

    Like George Bush, Israel's Prime Minister, Ehud Olmert, never served in a combat unit and launched military operations without thinking the matter through. In fact, Olmert reportedly never even served in the military. I raise this because there is one simple question Israel cannot answer about the current operations--what is their strategic military objective. Olmert has somehow persuaded the Israeli military to ignore strategy, think tactically, and in the process become really stupid. The events in the next several weeks will expose as myth the canard that you can secure a nation by killing terrorists.

    No you can't.

    Killing "terrorists" has a place in policy but it is not a strategic military obective. It is a tactical objective and may serve political purposes, but achieves little in terms of securing Israel. Israel is attacking targets in Lebanon like a drunken sailor in a bar fight. Flailing about, causing significant damage, hitting innocent bystanders, and generally making a mess of things. This is not the Israeli military that pulled off the brilliant and daring raid at Entebbe.

    What about Hamas and Hezbollah?

    They are not terrorists. They carry out terrorist attacks, but they are not terrorists. They are something far more dangerous. They are fully functioning political, social, religious, and military organizations that use terrorism tactics, but they are far more formidible than terrorist groups like Al Qaeda or the Basque Terrorist Organization. They do have the resources and the personnel to project force, sustain operations, and cannot be easily defeated. Unlike the Egyptian and Syrian armies in 1973, Hamas and Hezbollah will not easily fold and cannot be defeated in a seven day war. If that is the assumption among some Israeli military planners it is a crazy fantasy.

    While most folks in the United States buy into the Hollywood storyline of poor little Israel fighting for it's survival against big, bad Muslims, the reality unfolding on our TV screens shows something else. Exodus, starring Paul Newman, is ancient history. Hamas and Hezbollah attacked military targets--kidnapping soldiers on military patrols may be an act of war and a provocation, but it is not terrorism. (And yes, Hezbollah and Hamas have carried out terrorist attacks in the past against Israeli civilians. I'm not ignoring those acts, I condemn them, but we need to understand what the dynamics are right now.) Israel is not attacking the individuals who hit their soldiers. Israel is engaged in mass punishment.

    How did Israel respond? They bombed civilian targets and civilian infrastructure and have killed many civilians. Let's see if I have this right. The Arab "terrorists" attack military units, destroy at least one tank, and are therefore terrorists. Israel retaliates by launching aerial, naval, and artillery bombardments of civilian areas and they are engaging in self-defense. If we are unable to recognize the hypocrisy of this construct then we ourselves are so enveloped by propaganda and emotion that, like the Israelis, Hezbollah, and Hamas, we can't think rationally. We can only think in terms of tribalism and revenge.

    Iran, meanwhile, is sitting in the catbird's seat. They have a well-trained and highly competent surrogate force in Hezbollah. Hezbollah's successful attack on Friday on an Israeli naval vessel is a reminder that Hezbollah is not a bunch of crazy kids carrying RPGs and wearing flip flops. I would be willing to wager that at least one Iranian military advisor was helping Hezbollah launch the missile that hit the Israeli ship. But Iran is doing more than simply engage in tit-for-tat. They are thinking strategically.

    The events unfolding in Iraq and Lebanon are going Tehran's way. The United States is being portrayed in the world media as someone who tolerates and excuses attacks on civilian populations. The perception becomes the reality and the ability of the United States to rally support among the Russians, the Chinese, and even the French becomes more impaired. We need the international community to deal effectively with nuclear proliferation in North Korea and Iran. Now, we will be bogged down trying to defend Israel from an angry international community.

    In the past, the United States had enough credibility on both sides and kept enough of a distance during these blood fueds so that we could intervene and prevent the fighting from escalating into a gigantic war. It appears that there is no one in the Bush Administration who can step up and intervene to calm the situation. Hell, with John Bolton and Elliot Abrams leading the charge, we are Israel's enablers.

    Former Senator Fred Thompson played a U.S. Navy Admiral in the Hunt for Red October. While speaking about escalating tensions as the United States and the Soviet Union chased a renegade submarine, he said:

    "This business will get out of control. It will get out of control and we'll be lucky to live through it."

    Those words are relevant today. Let's hope and pray they don't come to pass.

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    good for israel taking out people that hate them before they get a chance to hurt them
    R.I.P Van Halen 1978-1984

    hopefully God will ressurect you

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    Originally posted by Redballjets88
    good for israel taking out people that hate them before they get a chance to hurt them
    And you call yourself a Christian? :confused:

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    yeah i do, i believe people are allowed to defend themselves when they see fit, israel has been attacked from all sides many times, and lately really have turned the other cheek to it by not annihilating them all, now that the other cheek has been slapped they are doing something about it

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    How is slaughtering Lebanese civilians and destroying their infrastructure (so Haliburton can rebuild it at a sickening profit) considered self defense?

    Are you even aware of the fact that the majority of Lebanese people are CHRISTIANS, not Muslims, and most definitely, not "terraists".

    Larry Johnson spent a lot of time in the middle east as part of Poppy Bush's CIA. You should take what he says seriously.

    And you might want to read the Sermon on the Mount again too.

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    It is incomprehensible that the US has let it's position of credibility in the world community to sink to a level that enables Iran and North Korea to dictate to the rest of the world. They are looking like master strategists compared to the US's bumbling, bombastic, ideological ways.
    Last edited by Romeo Delight; 07-16-2006 at 03:06 AM.
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    ok ford, dont give me your little liberized speech bc im sure i could find an opinion justifying mine on the other side too,

    and dont talk to me about religion either bc everyone has their one way of interprueting scripture, and i have read the sermon on the mount many times i have read the entire new testement before also i know what is there, i dont need you to tell me

    the bible also refers to israel as the holy land and its people as the chosen people

    and what did jesus do when the house of god was being blatently misused and mistreated? he went haywire and cleaned house of all the evil people there

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    Originally posted by Redballjets88
    yeah i do, i believe people are allowed to defend themselves when they see fit, israel has been attacked from all sides many times, and lately really have turned the other cheek to it by not annihilating them all,
    So we should praise them for not using nukes? Is that what you are saying?

    The world divided will allow these dictatorships to rise where they would not otherwise.

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    did i say use nukes? no there are plenty of other ways an advanced country like isael could annihilate those shitholes

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    Originally posted by Redballjets88

    and what did jesus do when the house of god was being blatently misused and mistreated? he went haywire and cleaned house of all the evil people there

    Yikes:eek:

    How are you any different from the "shitholes" you want to "annihiliate"?

    I'm building a fortress of solitude in the mountains.

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    Jesus trashed the Temple because the Pharisees (the Likud party's ancestors) were blaspheming his dad's name and using religion to make money just like Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, and John Hagee do these days.

    The arrogance of Israel is NOT excused by God Almighty. That is why God will bring Russia and the Muslims against them eventually. But I'm sick of MY country being dragged down with this insanity. The United States of America should have NEVER accepted neocon fascist doctrine and the generation of Jews who died at the hands of Adolf Hitler's murderous rampage are turning cartwheels in their graves at the thought of their OWN FUCKING DESCENDANTS building walls and slaughtering people who they consider "inferior".

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    Originally posted by FORD
    Jesus trashed the Temple because the Pharisees (the Likud party's ancestors) were blaspheming his dad's name and using religion to make money just like Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, and John Hagee do these days.

    The arrogance of Israel is NOT excused by God Almighty. That is why God will bring Russia and the Muslims against them eventually. But I'm sick of MY country being dragged down with this insanity. The United States of America should have NEVER accepted neocon fascist doctrine and the generation of Jews who died at the hands of Adolf Hitler's murderous rampage are turning cartwheels in their graves at the thought of their OWN FUCKING DESCENDANTS building walls and slaughtering people who they consider "inferior".
    Here here...
    Twistin' by the pool.

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    Originally posted by Redballjets88
    good for israel taking out people that hate them before they get a chance to hurt them
    It's a sad war because Israel is always in the hot seat because they are not allowed to defend themselves. It's horrible seeing all this bombing because a ceasefire is possible. Palestine was given the Gaza Strip but that's not enough. They want the entire country for themselves. It's hard to live surrounded by your enemies. You show some strength and a lot of the world starts hating you. These soldiers have families who are worried for them. All these arab countries have to do is release them and start negotiating peace. When an arab gets wounded in Israel, they get the best treatment despite the ongoing war between them. Can't say the same for the other side.

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    Originally posted by RuzDNailz
    It's a sad war because Israel is always in the hot seat because they are not allowed to defend themselves. It's horrible seeing all this bombing because a ceasefire is possible. Palestine was given the Gaza Strip but that's not enough. They want the entire country for themselves. It's hard to live surrounded by your enemies. You show some strength and a lot of the world starts hating you. These soldiers have families who are worried for them. All these arab countries have to do is release them and start negotiating peace. When an arab gets wounded in Israel, they get the best treatment despite the ongoing war between them. Can't say the same for the other side.
    It's about a reasonable response. A couple soldiers get kidnapped? No problem, you send in a small special ops team and get them out. The IDF should be certainly capable of that, and if they aren't, Mossad definitely is. You don't bomb the living shit out of Lebanon and deliberately target civilians there or in Gaza. That's nothing but cold blooded murder. And as I said before, it's not far from what Hitler did to the Jews.

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    Originally posted by Redballjets88
    good for israel taking out people that hate them before they get a chance to hurt them
    Yeah, like Lebanese women and children, children that will grow up to hate Israel and to support Hezbollah...

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    And how the hell does an Israel Prime Minister not serve in the military?

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    Originally posted by FORD
    It's about a reasonable response. A couple soldiers get kidnapped? No problem, you send in a small special ops team and get them out. The IDF should be certainly capable of that, and if they aren't, Mossad definitely is. You don't bomb the living shit out of Lebanon and deliberately target civilians there or in Gaza. That's nothing but cold blooded murder. And as I said before, it's not far from what Hitler did to the Jews.
    I understand that. Just now some Israelis were just hit by an attack that killed some civilians in Haifa. This is a 2-sided war going on here.
    This is what war does.

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    Israel pulled out of Gaza, now they get attacked for their generosity because of 4 years of torture?
    They bit the hand that fed them.

    And can i ask again who it was that elected Hezbollah, A TERROR ORGANIZATION, into their government?

    All Hezbollah has to do is disarm, and they would have by now if not for some assistance from two certain other places.

    Lebanon is getting exactly what it deserves and so will Syria and Iran if they don't knock the shit off.

    I heard a buzz today that Bush may bomb the shit out of Iran before he leaves office. how was it put? "As his last gift to the world".

    Y'all can talk politics all day long but the fact is, Iran and North Korea should absolutely NOT be allowed to build nukes...absolutely not.

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    Originally posted by Cathedral


    Y'all can talk politics all day long but the fact is, Iran and North Korea should absolutely NOT be allowed to build nukes...absolutely not.
    Exactly.

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    Originally posted by FORD
    And you call yourself a Christian? :confused:

    I call him an 18 year old by-product of the Texas Public School System


    His future in the State Dept. is pretty much assured at this point, no?

    But his argument that those attacked have every right to defend themselves pretty much explains the Iraqi Insurgency though...
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    Originally posted by Cathedral


    Y'all can talk politics all day long but the fact is, Iran and North Korea should absolutely NOT be allowed to build nukes...absolutely not.

    Okay, Cath.

    Answer me this.....


    Who should "be allowed" to build nukes?

    And what is the criteria for being allowed to?

    We've "allowed" some pretty shady and suspect regimes into this club, no?


    This whole "[insert regime here] should not be allowed to build nukes" argument has always cracked me up.

    Do we own some patent I'm unaware of?

    And answer me this while you're at it.

    If the WORLD all came together and declared that since the US is the only nation to have USED nukes on civilians, that WE should NOT be allowed to own them, what exactly would The Dept. Of Cathedral's response be........


    Don't look now, Cat, but our hypocritical double-standards as to whom may have nukes is showing.......

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    Originally posted by Cathedral
    Israel pulled out of Gaza, now they get attacked for their generosity because of 4 years of torture?
    They bit the hand that fed them.

    And can i ask again who it was that elected Hezbollah, A TERROR ORGANIZATION, into their government?

    All Hezbollah has to do is disarm, and they would have by now if not for some assistance from two certain other places.

    Lebanon is getting exactly what it deserves and so will Syria and Iran if they don't knock the shit off.

    I heard a buzz today that Bush may bomb the shit out of Iran before he leaves office. how was it put? "As his last gift to the world".

    Y'all can talk politics all day long but the fact is, Iran and North Korea should absolutely NOT be allowed to build nukes...absolutely not.
    "They" knock the shit off, so, as we continue to support Israel as if they were a mini-U.S., then we continue to make ourselves a target and bear the brunt of anger and hatred of the Arab world as we look the other way of Israeli's attacks on civilians...

    And Lebanon was the country that people, including the U.S. Gov't, had just adopted as the new spirit of freedom and reform in the Middle East is now going to be destroyed by a clash between Israeli bombs (killing its citizens) and Hezbollah...

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    Originally posted by RuzDNailz
    I understand that. Just now some Israelis were just hit by an attack that killed some civilians in Haifa. This is a 2-sided war going on here.
    This is what war does.
    Why the fuck should we give Israel $3 billion a year to get us in trouble? If Israel thinks their going to improve their long-term security situation by attacking weak Arab countries facing difficult concerns and trade offs of their own, then have at it. But the U.S. should not mindless support it, nor should we have to bear the Sept. 11s because of it...

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    Originally posted by Cathedral
    Israel pulled out of Gaza, now they get attacked for their generosity because of 4 years of torture?
    They bit the hand that fed them.


    Israel attacked first in this case.

    And can i ask again who it was that elected Hezbollah, A TERROR ORGANIZATION, into their government?

    Nobody. You're confusing Hezbollah with Hamas. And Hamas was a creation of Mossad, just as Al Qaeda was a creation of the CIA. Neither of which ever submitted a resignation letter to the parent organizations that are now supposedly their respective enemies.

    All Hezbollah has to do is disarm, and they would have by now if not for some assistance from two certain other places.

    Lebanon is getting exactly what it deserves and so will Syria and Iran if they don't knock the shit off.


    What did Lebanon do? Or more specifically, what did the majority CHRISTIAN population of Lebanon do? They already put up with 20 years of bullshit from the Likud fascists and Hezbollah dickweeds.

    I heard a buzz today that Bush may bomb the shit out of Iran before he leaves office. how was it put? "As his last gift to the world".

    Wouldn't surprise me. Chimpy's a fucking madman, and the Likud fascists of PNAC are even worse. Make no mistake, its ZIONFASCISM which is the greatest threat to the world today. What terrorism there is (other than the government intelligence franchise operations) exists BECAUSE of these fuckwads and what they have done to the Middle East as a result of their own paranoia. Why Israel continues to elect these fuckers is beyond all understanding.

    Oh, wait a minute....... in the last election, the Israeli people REJECTED Likud fascism. Or at least they thought they did. Turns out that Olmert, just like his old boss Sharon, was nothing but a filthy fascist lying murderer.

    Y'all can talk politics all day long but the fact is, Iran and North Korea should absolutely NOT be allowed to build nukes...absolutely not.
    NOBODY should be allowed to build nukes. Period.

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    What should Irsael do... they are being attcked. Just poke their collective heads in the sand and hope that it will stop? No Israel is going to rain death down on these maggots who hide behind women and children

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    what i dont understand is why people like ford, and lounge dont say shit about how fucking sick and evil the groups/coutries attacking israel are, which is bullshit.

    and once again lounge you are a bitch, and your only responce to anything i ever say is "texas school systems", look at bill clinton, a porduct of the Arkansas school systems, which do statistically worse than texas school, and i bet you fuckin love him

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    Originally posted by Redballjets88
    what i dont understand is why people like ford, and lounge dont say shit about how fucking sick and evil the groups/coutries attacking israel are, which is bullshit.

    What I do NOT do, is I do not allow special rules for Israel, or for the BCE, or for anybody else.

    NOBODY FUCKING ATTACKED ISRAEL HERE THIS TIME, UNTIL THEY STARTED KILLING CIVILLIANS.

    Pull your head out of your FAUX news misinformed brainwashed mind and deal with that reality.

    As I said, it is the Likud Zionfascists (who also control PNAC, and therefore the Chimp azgenda) who are currently the greatest threat to the entire planet. They have violated more UN resolutions than Saddam Hussein could have ever done even if he WAS armed.

    What's worse is their ARROGANCE. They don't believe they have to answer to anybody. Not other nations. Not the UN. Not even God Almighty himself.

    As I said, their mentality is far closer to Hitler than some of you would like to admit.

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    Originally posted by Redballjets88
    look at bill clinton, a porduct of the Arkansas school systems, which do statistically worse than texas school, and i bet you fuckin love him
    Look at Bill Clinton. Product of an Oxford University education, and quite possibly the most intelligent man to ever serve as President of the United States. Definitely the smartest of the 20th century.

    God I really miss him right now. A real President would tell the Zionfascists to back the fuck off.

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    ok so you mean to tell me that israel has gone untouched by any terroist organization in the past year and last week they just decided to attack? ok...

    if we lived by how you see this situation we would be the biggest bitch country on earth. i guess we should have let it slide after pearl habor and turned the other cheek and we should have never gone after al-queda after 9-11, that just evil of us

  30. #30
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    Originally posted by LoungeMachine
    Okay, Cath.

    Answer me this.....


    Who should "be allowed" to build nukes?

    And what is the criteria for being allowed to?

    We've "allowed" some pretty shady and suspect regimes into this club, no?


    This whole "[insert regime here] should not be allowed to build nukes" argument has always cracked me up.

    Do we own some patent I'm unaware of?

    And answer me this while you're at it.

    If the WORLD all came together and declared that since the US is the only nation to have USED nukes on civilians, that WE should NOT be allowed to own them, what exactly would The Dept. Of Cathedral's response be........


    Don't look now, Cat, but our hypocritical double-standards as to whom may have nukes is showing.......
    "NOBODY SHOULD HAVE NUKES!"

    No debate needed, no double standard. we still have them because other people have them and they have them because we have them.

    What, wasn't i clear enough?
    Ok, i'll say it again, "NOBODY SHOULD HAVE NUKES!"

  31. #31
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    Originally posted by FORD
    NOBODY should be allowed to build nukes. Period.
    Yeah, lol, i realized through the night that i had Hezbollah and Hamas confused.

    My bad, but it doesn't change my opinion about nukes, and i agree 100% with you that NOBODY needs nukes.

  32. #32
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    Originally posted by Nickdfresh
    "They" knock the shit off, so, as we continue to support Israel as if they were a mini-U.S., then we continue to make ourselves a target and bear the brunt of anger and hatred of the Arab world as we look the other way of Israeli's attacks on civilians...

    And Lebanon was the country that people, including the U.S. Gov't, had just adopted as the new spirit of freedom and reform in the Middle East is now going to be destroyed by a clash between Israeli bombs (killing its citizens) and Hezbollah...
    I don't even know why you stay in this country, Nick.
    Let's just turn on our allies because they have terror cells as enemies so we can avoid being a target....yeah, whatever.

    How many friends have you stood behind in a fight only to run when he needed help?

    This fight is not ours and i had hoped we could stay neutral in it. but you know what?

    It doesn't matter what we do, we'll still be hated if we lend a hand or sit on it.

    Our problems stem from 60 years of failed policy by the entire US Government, not just 6 years of Bush.

  33. #33
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    Our problems stem from 60 years of failed policy by the entire US Government, not just 6 years of Bush.
    exactly

  34. #34
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    Yeah....


    8 years of BCE-Eisenhower. 8 years of BCE-Nixon-Ford, 8 years of BCE-Reagan, and 4 years of BCE-Poppy didn't help either.


    "I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan." (Revelation 2:8-9 KJV)

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    ford go to blockbuster and rent Why We Fight, its a good dcoumentary i liked it, it will probably change your opinion on Ike a little bit

  36. #36
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    "I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan." (Revelation 2:8-9 KJV)
    ok bc im not a psycho liberal like you that means i am a satanist ford?

  37. #37
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    Originally posted by Cathedral
    I don't even know why you stay in this country, Nick.
    Let's just turn on our allies because they have terror cells as enemies so we can avoid being a target....yeah, whatever.


    Well, I'm not sure why you don't just join some cult and OD on Jesus Juice™...

    How many friends have you stood behind in a fight only to run when he needed help?
    They need help? How do they need our help? What help do they need with? Killing civilians, then bitching about how it's self-defense against the killing of their civilians by "terrorists?" Advice on maintaining several hundred nuclear weapons and not appearing hypocritical when trying to keep other countries from getting them? And exactly how are they our 'friend?' You don't even believe they can get into heaven...

    This fight is not ours and i had hoped we could stay neutral in it. but you know what?

    It doesn't matter what we do, we'll still be hated if we lend a hand or sit on it.

    Our problems stem from 60 years of failed policy by the entire US Government, not just 6 years of Bush.
    Maybe, but Israel's problems stem from being enabled by big brother US, and not seeking any long term solution to their conflict...

  38. #38
    Fuck this and fuck that
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    Originally posted by Redballjets88
    ok bc im not a psycho liberal like you that means i am a satanist ford?
    Only if you're a Likud Zionfascist. And I didn't write those words. Jesus Christ did.

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    me supporting israel's fight doesnt make me a zionfascist,

    and technically John wrote that, but yeah it was from jesus.

    but do check out that eisenhower documentary

    it talks about during ikes farewell adress, and how he warned that big business could be the downfall of american society

  40. #40
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    Originally posted by Redballjets88
    ford go to blockbuster and rent Why We Fight, its a good dcoumentary i liked it, it will probably change your opinion on Ike a little bit
    Actually, I know that Ike was pretty much anti-war, and opposed to the "military industrial complex" (his own terminology) that was built by the very same Bush Criminal Empire which made him President. But for all his opposition to their agenda, Ike didn't do much to stop them when he knew the evil they were capable of. True, he warned the American people in his last speech. But the minute JFK was sworn in as his replacement, Ike should have taken on the BCE full time. Who but an insider would have been better to dismantle them. Instead, they just grew and became far worse, and Eisenhower has to take some of the blame for that.

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