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Thread: Superman 2: The Donner Cut

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    Superman 2: The Donner Cut

    Okay...I've seen Superman Returns, and rewatched Superman: The Movie...the Extended Director's cut...

    so now it's time to throw down some news from Donner's new cut of the movie he should have been able to complete, but wasn't so that they could exclude paying Brando...

    imagine that...

    anyways...here's Wikipedia's take on it...

    and anything else that you all want to add...

    I'm looking forward to this...when you watch the documentary's from Supe 1, and realize the time and effort that Donner put into this film...which were generally 20 hour days for 2 years...

    and realize that he had 75% of Supe 2 done...that Lester literally HAD to delete at least 26% of so that he would get the credit for...

    what it comes down to is that 30% of that film...Supe 2, was Donner footage...

    which means we're going to get an entirely new film...from the start...

    mostly with original footage...Hackman added footage (that was deleted)...and more importantly...a ton of Brando footage...including the cuts in which Supe's mom was added to take his place in the fortress scenes...

    a brand new start that will get rid of 2 of the scenes in the movie that I despise (the eiffel tower scene, and the scene at the Falls where Lois jumps in the water)...

    anyways...here we go...
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    Okay...here's why Donner was "fired."

    In 1977, director Richard Donner set about simultaneously filming an epic two part adaptation of the Superman comic book series. With approximately 75% of Superman II in the can, and after significantly going over budget and over schedule on both movies, it was decided that filming on Superman II would be suspended, and that Donner would focus on completing the first film, Superman: The Movie. Following the release of Superman: The Movie in 1978, it was widely assumed that Donner would be re-called to complete the remaining 25% of the film. However, a number of events led to Donner’s eventual replacement as director of the movie. Most importantly, the producers (Alexander and Ilya Salkind) announced that Marlon Brando’s completed scenes for Superman II would be excised from the movie in order to prevent them having to pay the actor an additional several million dollars he was now demanding for his performance in the sequel. Donner publicly lambasted this decision, announcing that he would make the film his way or not at all. The April 1978 issue of the sci-fi magazine Starburst quotes Donner as saying "That means no games...They have to want me to do it. It has to be on my terms and I don't mean financially. I mean control."

    Tensions had existed between the Salkinds, and Richard Donner throughout the almost nineteen months of filming it had taken to complete Superman: The Movie. As the situation came to a head during the hiatus, the Salkinds fired Donner and replaced him with UK-based director Richard Lester. Lester had served as mediator between the Salkinds and Donner for a large part of the initial shoot. Suspicions abound at the time that Lester was being primed for taking over the film, despite Donner’s determination to complete the project at all costs and Lester’s assurances to the contrary. Donner's sacking caused a near mutiny amongst the main cast, who had all enjoyed a close relationship with the director. The April 1981 issue of Time Out magazine quotes Christopher Reeve as saying "I think it’s appalling when you cut out a major actor like Brando so you don’t have to pay him the gross...In my view the way "Superman II" was produced is the lowest you can go without actually cheating."

    Lester’s main task in completing Superman II was to film cheaply and quickly and to avoid further budget or scheduling overruns. According to many of the cast and crew, this entailed a noticable drop in the quality of film-making. In June 2006, Lois Lane actress Margot Kidder told the magazine Hotdog "There were two or three cameras at once (a process synonymous with filming sit-coms)and lighting that was quick (to set up)...it was just fast and loose as opposed to the care and love that was in the first Superman." Zod actor Terence Stamp appeared to agree, telling Famous Monsters magazine in 1980 "Part two lost something as far as I was concerned...the film became a more ordinary experience...unlike the first part which had been extraordinary."

    The situation was further complicated by the deaths of cinematographer Geoffrey Unsworth and production designer John Barry during the hiatus in filming. In order to earn a directorial credit on the film, when Richard Lester assumed the reigns, Superman II had to contain at least 51% of his footage. This meant that large portions of the film were subsequently re-written and re-shot by Lester, with much of Donner’s filmed Superman II footage excised to oblivion. Tom Mankiewicz, a key Donner ally who had re-written both Superman scripts to comply with Donner’s directive to make the features more realistic and less camp, was also removed from the project. His Superman II script was then re-written by David and Leslie Newman, authors of the earlier, purportedly “campier” drafts. This, in addition to Lester’s more comically oriented sense of direction led to a Superman II that although a huge box office and critical success, was condemned by Donner as camp and severely flawed. In 1989, Donner told Starlog magazine "Let me put it this way...all the good parts of "Superman II" are mine."

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    Here are the shots from the film that are Donner's...and not Lesters...

    The version of Superman II that was released combined Donner footage shot in 1977 with Lester footage shot in 1979. Approximately 30% of Lester’s Superman II is Richard Donner footage. Much of this interweaving was caused by Lex Luthor actor Gene Hackman’s refusal to return to film any further scenes with Lester. Hackman, along with many of the Superman cast were publicly disgusted by Donner’s removal. Thus, all Hackman footage in the film is Donner’s although in certain scenes, a body double was used for wide shots. The following is a list of all major Donner footage in Superman II:

    Spoiler warning: Plot and/or ending details follow.

    Lex Luthor in prison, including the escape by balloon.
    The three super-villains land on the moon and attack the astronauts.
    Lex Luthor at the Fortress of Solitude (Although shots of Superman’s mother were filmed by Lester. The scene was originally to feature Brando as Jor-El).
    The three super-villains attack the White House and force the president to kneel before Zod.
    A powerless Clark is beat up by a bully in a fast-food diner.
    Lex Luthor visits the super-villains in the White House.
    The villains burst into the Daily Planet and chase after Superman (some close-ups are edited-in Lester footage)
    The villains return to the Planet and decide to go to Superman’s polar fortress (some close-ups are edited-in Lester footage)
    The second part of the final scene at the Fortress of Solitude, beginning with Luthor’s belated arrival (some close-ups are edited-in Lester footage)
    Clark returns to the diner and gets his revenge on the bully.

    Spoilers end here.

    The rest of the film, including the opening scenes at the Eiffel Tower, the scenes at Niagara Falls, the scenes of the super-villains in Midwest America and the battle in Metropolis were all shot by Lester. Several television stations have broadcast extended cuts over the years. These have largely featured additional Donner material including footage of Superman destroying the Fortress of Solitude at the conclusion of the film, as well as extra scenes between Lois and Superman.

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    Okay...here are the controversies of Supe 2, along with a major hole that was there because of some of the Brando cuts...

    Critics of Lester’s Superman II, including Donner, have stated that Lester’s penchant for comedy undermined the integrity of the film, especially when compared to Donner’s Superman: The Movie. Examples of this trademark comedy are evident during scenes which feature Superman fighting the super-villains in Metropolis. The villains attack the citizens of Metropolis using super breath. Several comedic scenes follow, including the wind blowing off a man’s toupee, the ice cream being blown off of a cone and into someone's face, a man being blown over in a telephone booth and laughing the whole time and a man on roller-skates rolling across the pavement. Specifically, Donner has also criticized the scenes featuring the confrontation between the military and the super-villains in Idaho, telling Starlog magazine in 1989 "I hated the stuff they did with the villains in the small town. It looked like an Englishman's point-of-view of what America would look like, with the Army, the jeeps, the people...there was no sense of size to it. It lost its sense of importance." Despite this, critics have noted that Superman II remains a remarkably coherent and entertaining film, and Lester’s direction of the love relationship between Lois Lane and Superman, was applauded by critics who stated that they had not seen this side of Richard Lester’s direction prior to this. In 1981, Christopher Reeve told Time Out magazine"Part of the reason that Superman II is such a good movie is due to Lester’s enormous skill as a director. If it hadn’t been for that and the major legacy left by Donner and his footage...it would have been a joke."

    However, there was one gaping plot hole that has dogged fans over the years. This concerns a mysterious cut between a scene featuring a powerless Clark finding a green crystal at the Fortress of Solitude, and Superman’s return to the Daily Planet to fight Zod and the other two super-villains. The question of just how Superman regained his powers proved a vital catalyst for Superman fans, who were aware that a major scene featuring Marlon Brando as Jor-El, had been excised from the film, and not replaced with a convincing or coherent alternative.

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    Discussions about lost Donner footage have been raging for years, and with the advent of the internet, numerous letter writing and other campaigns were instigated to persuade Warner Bros. to allow Richard Donner to create his version of Superman II. A fan restored DVD featuring extended scenes shown in various television broadcasts over the years helped bring much publicity to the cause when Warner Bros. threatened legal action over the bootleg release. In early 2006, it was finally announced that a new version of Superman II was being worked on.

    In a June 2006 interview with the website Amazon.com George Feltenstein, Senior Vice President of Warner Home Video's Catalog Marketing division stated "We have been getting for years and years and years letters begging us to release the Donner cut of Superman II, and this year we bit the bullet and we've created what is ostensibly a new film, although the footage is all footage that was shot years and years and years ago. But it was sitting in a lab and never assembled. And for those of us were very saddened and touched by the loss of Christopher Reeve - to see footage you've never seen of him before, and a whole different take on the Superman II story, is really thrilling. That's going to be coming out sometime around Christmas."

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    Donner Cut...

    Donner said he didn't have anything to do with this new version...which...turned out to be a lie...

    When filming was suspended on Donner's Superman II in 1978, the director had completed almost all of the major character-based sequences in the film. All scenes in the Daily Planet and Fortress of Solitude were completed. All scenes featuring Marlon Brando, Ned Beatty and Gene Hackman were also completed. What remained to be filmed was the villains arrival on Earth, and their rampage through mid-west America as well as exteriors at Washington D.C. during which Zod announces his takeover of the Earth from the tip of the Washington Monument. Most of the battle scenes between Superman and the super-villains had yet to be shot, as well as both the interiors and exteriors at Niagara Falls. Several minor scenes including a love-struck Superman deliberately tilting over the Leaning Tower of Pisa (later adapted in Superman III) and a scene in which Superman warns off some English fox-hunters were also not filmed.

    Mixed emotions invariably followed the announcement in January 2006 that a new Superman II was being worked on. This was primarily down to comments made by Richard Donner that suggested that he was having little or nothing to do with the re-edit. In a January 2006 interview with the website IGN, he stated "They're doing it. I'm not doing it...I don't even want to see it until it comes out in the theater...I'm too far away from it now."

    However, it appears that these comments may have been made for tactical reasons possibly to do with negotiating a fee from Warners. In June 2006, restorationist Michael Thau finally confirmed the extent of Donner's involvment in the project. In an interview with the magazine Movie Magic, he stated "When I’d get a cut on a scene, I’d show it to Dick and he’d say, 'I don’t like that line; that reading’s not good' and so on. With Dick it’s always, 'Make it move faster.'"

    On May 18th 2006, the website Supermanhomepage.com revealed that Warner Bros. had held interviews for a Christopher Reeve body- double, presumably to be used in wide-shots for new special effects sequences.

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    Here are some of the new scenes...I can't wait to see the new beginning...which is much better than the scene that was added to the falls to replace it...

    The new film will feature a number of never-before-seen scenes, which will replace scenes re-filmed by Richard Lester. These include the original opening of the film set in the offices of the Daily Planet. Thus far, this is the major only part of the new version of Superman II to have been screened publically - forming part of Warners' January 2006 press announcement that Donner's re-cut was underway. At that time, the website Movieweb.com reported "...the lights we're dimmed and we were treated to Donner's original opening of Superman II...Lois Lane is reading an article on Superman. She sees Clark Kent across the room, who is standing with his arms folded, and she realizes that the two look quite similar. After drawing a hat, glasses and a suit on Superman, she and Clark are summoned into Perry White's office and informed of an assignment they will work on together in Niagara Falls. Perry soon leaves the room and Lois begins dropping hints to Clark that she thinks he's Superman. Clark of course denies this and Lois, believing he is lying, throws herself out the window. As she is tumbling in the air, Clark makes his way down to the street below. Using his "wind blowing" powers he slows up Lois's descent, and then makes an awning drop (courtesy of his "laser-like" eye power) so that Lois's fall is eventually broken by a fruit stand. Even with a temporary score and titles like "Work Test" cut into this piece, it still very much captured the spirit of what a Richard Donner cut of Superman II might have in store." This scene was also presented to viewers during the San Diego ComicCon on 21st July (attended by both Donner and Thau), along with a preview of the recut reprise of the first film that opens Superman II (see below).

    Aside from these major scenes, the film will also feature new scenes between Lois and Clark at the Fortress of Solitude, several restored scenes which were truncated by Richard Lester and also several new special effects sequences.

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    Interesting,nice read.christopher reeve is superman.
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    Now 1 at a time...here is speculation on what's going to be added...taken out...and not messed with...

    and there is a lot...

    a better beginning that directly connects the first movie to the second...

    Superman: The Movie reprise. This will now almost certainly feature a clip of Superman hurling the nuclear rocket into space from the end of the first film. Jor-el, excised from Lester’s reprise, will be restored. Lester’s insert showing the three super-villain’s arrest on Krypton will almost certainly be deleted.

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    The super-villains are freed from the Phantom Zone by the nuclear rocket. A combination of Lester footage and new effects.

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    Superman interferes with a fox hunt. This was never filmed by Donner and it is likely that this sequence will simply be scrapped.

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    There are a few of these good tidbits...where Lester didn't use a piece of Donner's ideas in 2...only to use them in 3...

    Exterior Daily Planet. Superman swoops into a taxi and emerges as Clark Kent (another scene later adapted for Superman III). This scene may not have been filmed by Donner and may either be scrapped or created digitally.

    this will also continue to get rid of 3 and 4 from memory...

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    Interior Daily Planet. Major new footage Lois jumps out of the window to prove that Clark is Superman. This sequence was filmed by Donner and will most likely only require a few additional effects of Clark zooming through the Daily Planet and using his super-breath to break Lois’s fall. Lester’s opening at the Daily Planet and Eiffel Tower will be deleted.

    This is that start that was mentioned from before...this is confirmed to be the new beginning of the film...

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    Luthor and Otis in prison. This Donner scene featured in Lester’s Superman II. May be slightly re-edited.

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    The super-villains land on the moon and attack the astronauts. This Donner scene featured in Lester’s Superman II. May be slightly re-edited. Footage of Houston control (unknown whether Donner or Lester footage) will also remain.

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    Luthor’s escape from prison by balloon. This Donner footage featured in Lester’s Superman II. May be slightly re-edited.

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    Niagara Falls establishing shots. Lester/stock footage will be used here.

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    Niagara Falls interiors – the honeymoon couple arrive at the bungalow. A scripted scene in which Lois teases Clark to kiss her was never filmed by Donner. It is likely that Lester’s re-scripted scene, which has some similar dialogue – Lois: “...everything’s complimentary – until you get the bill.” will be used here.

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    Here's a scene that will connect 1 to 2 to 3...we'll get Kevin Spacey a bit more in the third movie...

    and bring Brando back...

    Luthor and Eve arrive at the Fortress of Solitude. Major new footage Lester’s footage of Superman’s mother and the Kryptonian elders will be removed from this Donner scene. Instead, Brando’s Jor-el will now inform Luthor of the existence of the super-villains. This scene will also most likely be extended to feature new sequences of Luthor and Eve’s arrival at the fortress, with extended dialogue throughout the sequence.

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    Niagara Falls exteriors. Clark gets a hot-dog. Superman rescues a small boy. Donner never filmed these scenes, so Lester’s footage (largely similar to original script) will certainly be used here. However, Lois’s later deliberate jump into the river (to prove that Clark is Superman) will certainly be edited out (Lester footage), as this would now be a redundant duplicate of Lois’s earlier efforts at the Daily Planet.

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    Exteriors. Luthor and Eve head back south in the Snowmobile, whilst Luthor plots and schemes. It is unclear whether this scene was filmed by Donner. Lester’s scenes featuring body doubles and voice-overs may be used here.

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    This should be interesting...because the Screen shots I've seen were very rough...

    and Reeves and Kidder's hair were vastly different...

    but...computer age...eh?

    Niagara Falls bungalow interiors. Lois fires gun at Clark who is forced to reveal his true identity, just before Lois admits she used a blank. This scene was never filmed by Donner. However, it has been confirmed that the original Reeve and Kidder screen tests, which played out this scene, will be edited together and will feature here. Lester’s sequence featuring Clark burning his hand in the fireplace will be scrapped, though some shots, including Clark’s “Now that you know, I think you should know it all.” may be inserted into the scene.

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    Fortress of Solitude interiors. Major new footage Lois and Clark kiss for the first time. This scene was filmed by Donner. All of Lester’s fortress sequences from Superman II will be completely scrapped.

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    A love-struck Superman does cartwheels in the air and deliberately straightens out the Leaning Tower of Pisa. These sequences were not filmed by Donner. Lester footage from Superman III could be used here. However, due to the way that Christopher Reeve ultimately portrayed Superman, these sequences may appear out of character, and will therefore probably be scrapped. Lester’s footage showing Superman picking a flower from a rainforest will probably be deleted.

    ahh...yes...another Supe 3 deal. I can't see them redoing this one...since the "evil Supe" did the deed in III...but again...computer...

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    Fortress of Solitude Interiors. Major new footage Superman and Lois make a soufflé. This scene was filmed by Donner. (This scene was also re-filmed by Lester, but deleted from the final cut of his Superman II).

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    Lester’s scene featuring Zod landing in a lake and walking on water may be scrapped. The villains arrive in Midwest America and meet the rangers. Donner never filmed this scene, thus Lester footage will likely be used here. The scene will probably be edited differently from the original. In Lester’s version, part of the dialogue intended for this scene was transferred to the army general in the small town. It is unclear how this will be addressed.

    I do think these are the scenes that Donner really wanted to change...but can't because there's no footage...

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    Fortress of Solitude interiors. Major new footage Superman explains his origins to Lois. Lois and Superman make love for the first time.

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    Major new effects footage? The original script features Zod at the Washington monument proclaiming his takeover of the earth. The dialogue is similar to that spoken by Zod in Lester’s version in the small town (“...your very lives will be given over to me...”). Computer technology may help to transfer this footage. Otherwise, most of Lester’s footage of the villains in the small town (including the bar fight sequences, Zod levitating a boy’s father and the military attack on the super-villains) will almost certainly be scrapped. Additional scripted scenes featuring the destruction of the Kremlin, Eiffel Tower and Mount Rushmore (the latter possibly filmed by Donner) may be constructed with new effects footage.

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    Fortress of Solitude Interiors. Major new footage Jor-el warns Superman of the dangers of falling in love. Superman gives up his powers and becomes a mortal. Lester’s re-shoot of this scene will be scrapped entirely.

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    The villains attack the White House and force the president to kneel before Zod. This Donner-filmed scene featured in Lester’s Superman II. May be substantially re-edited.

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    Exteriors. Lois and Clark drive towards the diner. In Lester’s version, this scene featured Donner’s footage of the remote controlled car crashed by Lex Luthor in Superman: The Movie, combined with new voice-over dialogue. Since this scene was never filmed by Donner, it will likely play the same way.

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    Clark is beaten up inside the diner and hears the president relinquish his powers to Zod. This Donner-filmed scene featured in Lester’s Superman II. May be slightly re-edited.

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    Luthor visits the villains inside the White House and offers them the son of Jor-el. This Donner-filmed scene featured in Lester’s Superman II. May be slightly re-edited and may include new effects footage.

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    This is the major deletion IMO...

    Kent goes back to get his powers...and comes back with them...we never know how he gets them...

    until this...

    and could be tough to watch...

    A bruised Clark arrives at the Fortress of Solitude and screams for his father. Jor-el appears and dies to restore his son’s powers. Major new footage Lester’s partial re-shoot of this scene will be scrapped. An earlier Lester scene showing Clark trying to hitch-hike to the North poll will possibly be deleted.

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    Daily Planet interiors. Lois, Perry and Jimmy wait for Superman. The villains burst into the Daily Planet and Superman finally appears. These Donner scenes featured in Lester’s Superman II, though certain shots were re-filmed by Lester. Thus, this sequence will likely be substantially re-edited.

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    These are the Lester scenes that I thought were ridiculous the first time I saw them...way back in the day...still have the Supe 2 movie book from it...

    Superman and the super-villains fight in Metropolis. Superman flees the city. Most of these scenes were never filmed by Donner. The new cut will combine Lester footage (re-edited to remove slapstick sight-gags), original Donner footage and new special-effects sequences. Lester scenes featuring Lois leaning out of the office window with a rather insensitive female co-worker will certainly be scrapped.

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    The super-villains return to the Daily Planet. Luthor offers them Superman’s home address. These Donner scenes featured in Lester’s Superman II, though certain shots were re-filmed by Lester. Thus, this sequence will likely be re-edited.

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    The villains head north with Lois and Luthor on their backs. It is likely that Lester’s footage featuring a body-double for Lex Luthor will feature here as in Lester’s Superman II.

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    I've seen these scenes....nothing great...but I guarantee that there will more than likely be some added special effects here...

    but wouldn't explain how Luthor got in so easy in 2 and in Returns...

    The group arrives at the Fortress of Solitude. The super-villains break through its defenses. Rare new footage This Donner footage has only ever been seen in rare extended television cuts.

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    Superman tries to lull Zod into the 'de-powering' chamber. The villains threaten to tear Lois apart. Major new footage This scene was filmed by Donner. Lester sequences featuring Superman throwing a giant “S” at Zod as well as the villains and Superman playing a cat and mouse disappearing act will be scrapped.

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