If this tour LOSES money no new record deal

[griffin6002]

Twice in the last few years I've gotten to see Dave in concert up close and personal because there were only a couple hundred people in attendance. Everybody had a front row seat. And then Van Hagar came to town and they could only fill 70 percent of a 10,000 seat arena. What was worse was there were no chicks at the concert, and the average age must have been over 40. Dave put on the better show, even though he didn't have the expensive stage production that Van Hagar had. The reality though is that he couldn't have been making much money with that few people in attendance. And I read the Van Hagar 2004 tour LOST money. It will be interesting to see what venues Van Halen plays this summer and how many people show up. Yeah, people on these boards will go, but are the young kids interested? A lot of the 1980's fans have grown up and grown old and going to a concert might not be their idea of a fun time anymore. Is Warner Bros. interested in a new record with the classic lineup? If this tour makes a profit, they'll resign VH and we'll get a new album... if the tour bombs, nobody will be interested in the band. It's all about money.

[bueno bob]

They're on shaky ground now anyway, regardless of what the tour does...

If it was a classic 4 reunion, anybody would sign them...

With Wolfgang, who knows...maybe...

I'm sure they'll have a welcome home at Sanctuary no matter what happens, but don't hold your breath looking for new material.

Frankly, folks, this tour is probably it. That's reality. Better get used to it.

[PHOENIX]

This tour will be the best gig Roth has had since the EEAS band days.

So what if a lot of the Van Hagar fans dont buy any tickets for this tour.

There will be less fucking Van Hagar t-shirt wearing sheep in attendance and thats a good thing.

[bantonelli]

Originally posted by PHOENIX
This tour will be the best gig Roth has had since the EEAS band days.

I disagree. ROTH had a Kick-Ass Tour Last Year. Voice & Body in total shape!

[Matt White]

Originally posted by bantonelli
I disagree. ROTH had a Kick-Ass Tour Last Year. Voice & Body in total shape!

Damn Straight BAN....

DAVE has been kicking ass for the past few years..........

But...I don't see anyway possible that this tour actually doesn't make money......


NO FUCKING WAY

The younger generation...who never had the chance to see the original band in action (and who still won't get that chance) will be coming out....

And us old timers who witnessed CLASSIC VAN HALEN in their prime...know that they were the GRATEST AMERICAN HARD ROCK BAND of all-time...BAR NONE......

This tour is gonna KICK ASS

[kamaboko]

It depends on what kind of contract they negotiate with the promoters. Most of their money will be made with shirts and all those little things you see at the stands when you walk in to the arena. That's where the cash is.

VH, the group, is not the kind of chick magnet it was in the 1980's. Not too many 20 year old girls are sweatin' DLR. ("He's as old as my dad!") They want Nickleback and the like. It will most certainly be a "guys" show. I wouldn't expect to hook up and get laid at this show. LOL.

[fe_lung]

Originally posted by griffin6002
Twice in the last few years I've gotten to see Dave in concert up close and personal because there were only a couple hundred people in attendance. Everybody had a front row seat. And then Van Hagar came to town and they could only fill 70 percent of a 10,000 seat arena. What was worse was there were no chicks at the concert, and the average age must have been over 40. Dave put on the better show, even though he didn't have the expensive stage production that Van Hagar had. The reality though is that he couldn't have been making much money with that few people in attendance. And I read the Van Hagar 2004 tour LOST money. It will be interesting to see what venues Van Halen plays this summer and how many people show up. Yeah, people on these boards will go, but are the young kids interested? A lot of the 1980's fans have grown up and grown old and going to a concert might not be their idea of a fun time anymore. Is Warner Bros. interested in a new record with the classic lineup? If this tour makes a profit, they'll resign VH and we'll get a new album... if the tour bombs, nobody will be interested in the band. It's all about money.

They should do allright so long as they finish the tour. Screw the young demographic. Look at the top grossing tours, they aren't youngster bands.

[Diamondjimi]

This tour will sell out every damn show . Mark my words.
When people start hearing the tour commercials on the radio tickets will fly !

Every seat sold ,guaran-fuckin-teed !

I'll be waiting for Edwad & Alice to start the Tubby & Saucey bashing...

[BrownSound1]

I think they've got to do some TV as well. Dave's image was really hurt by that bluegrass bullshit...and rightfully so, it fucking sucked. If they could come out and do a performance along the lines that the DLR Band did on the Carson Daly show then it would be a big plus. That performance of Mean Street was excellent, and I KNOW there isn't a soul alive who can play that better than EVH.

[kastco]

Please will ya. The fucking Van Hagar tour of 04 grossed a little over 40 million. Not to shabby considering it was probably watching a blond haired Ronald McDonald jump around on stage. With Dave back in the fold they will make a killing. The money has always been made on tours not record sales and this is a reunion that many have been waiting a long time to see. I've caught Dave 4 times over the last few years and he has gotten better everytime. If they release new material it will sell fine but nowhere near what they have sold in the past. The record industry has changed too much. Even the kids of today aren't buying CDs like in the past. They just down load their favorites from ITunes.

[Romeo Delight]

Originally posted by Matt White
This tour is gonna KICK ASS

[Romeo Delight]

Originally posted by BrownSound1
I think they've got to do some TV as well. Dave's image was really hurt by that bluegrass bullshit...and rightfully so, it fucking sucked. If they could come out and do a performance along the lines that the DLR Band did on the Carson Daly show then it would be a big plus. That performance of Mean Street was excellent, and I KNOW there isn't a soul alive who can play that better than EVH.

Ed's performance of Mean Street with Gary was outstanding.

Looking forward to the real deal

[vh rides again]

i think they are gonna do just fine, i kinda see this as a new beginning for vanhalen, not a beginning of the end.

we will see.

[light 'em up!]

Originally posted by BrownSound1
I KNOW there isn't a soul alive who can play that better than EVH.

I wouldn't bet on that.

[bantonelli]

Originally posted by kamaboko


VH, the group, is not the kind of chick magnet it was in the 1980's. Not too many 20 year old girls are sweatin' DLR. ("He's as old as my dad!") They want Nickleback and the like. It will most certainly be a "guys" show. I wouldn't expect to hook up and get laid at this show. LOL.

Now here's a statement that us ROTHARMY Babes will totally dispute with you, Boko.

...BTW, we are still eye-candy

[sadaist]

Originally posted by bantonelli
Now here's a statement that us ROTHARMY Babes will totally dispute with you, Boko.

...BTW, we are still eye-candy

The women may not be 20 years old anymore, but they are much more experienced. OH YEAH!!!!!

[bantonelli]

Originally posted by sadaist
The women may not be 20 years old anymore, but they are much more experienced. OH YEAH!!!!!

Thank you, Sweet Sadaist - you are definitely a conneseur and have a true appreciation for the finer things in this ROTH Life...our experience makes us as delicious as a fine Pinot Noir.

[sadaist]

Originally posted by bantonelli
Thank you, Sweet Sadaist - you are definitely a conneseur and have a true appreciation for the finer things in this ROTH Life...our experience makes us as delicious as a fine Pinot Noir.

True Dat! Sometimes when I look at younger girls 18-24, I accidentally overhear them talking and it ruins it for me. And I'm not wearing pants that hang around my thighs, showing my boxers, or wearing my baseball cap sideways & crooked to pick up these younger girls.

[kamaboko]

Originally posted by BrownSound1
I think they've got to do some TV as well. Dave's image was really hurt by that bluegrass bullshit...and rightfully so, it fucking sucked. If they could come out and do a performance along the lines that the DLR Band did on the Carson Daly show then it would be a big plus. That performance of Mean Street was excellent, and I KNOW there isn't a soul alive who can play that better than EVH.

you mean they're not going to play bluegrass on this VH tour?

[kamaboko]

Originally posted by kastco
Please will ya. The fucking Van Hagar tour of 04 grossed a little over 40 million. Not to shabby considering it was probably watching a blond haired Ronald McDonald jump around on stage. With Dave back in the fold they will make a killing. The money has always been made on tours

Gross and Net are two very different things. One can gross a bazillion dollars, but if expenses are two bazillion dollars....it's a loss. Bands do lose money on tours. I'd like to know the Net for their 04 tour. I don't care about gross.

[Matt White]

It's killing some people that van hagar is a dead issue:p


DAVE OR THE GRAVE

[TAKIN WHISKEY]

My 16 year old daughter, who really isn't interested in rock n roll, said she was definately going when I told her it's official. She knows how big this is with Dave back in the mix. A guy at work, who is 23 and into rap and shit, said he he was going because Dave is back. I think a lot more people are interested than what some might think.

[TAKIN WHISKEY]

IMO, every show will be an easy sell out. As far as a new album, we can only hope. Maybe Ed will realise, that not only is this a money maker, but creatively, Dave should stay in the mix.

[Barbarella's bf]

The 2004 Tour gross(ed) $40 million... with DLR at the helmet it will pull more puds.....
don't you worry about it.

[Shaun Ponsonby]

Originally posted by bueno bob
I'm sure they'll have a welcome home at Sanctuary no matter what happens, but don't hold your breath looking for new material.

Now, THAT's a label.

They seem more concerned with producing GRATE albums than they are with making millions, which is probably why UFO, Motorhead, Iron Maiden, Billy Idol and aboot a million others have all been making their best albums in years on there.

[matt19]

Come on im only 20 and im going. There are a lot of people that realize the effect Dave will have on this band.

[MERRYKISSMASS2U]

OK, a classic Van Halen in no way, shape, or form will lose money. 99% of all of my friends called me up when they heard and said that they were going.... and these are just people who are going because of a "generation" thing.


Take the people from memory lane + hardcore VH fans = shitload of cash.


This is like saying "I wonder if Microsoft will go bankrupt". Some shit is just guaranteed.

[MERRYKISSMASS2U]

Originally posted by TAKIN WHISKEY
IMO, every show will be an easy sell out. As far as a new album, we can only hope. Maybe Ed will realise, that not only is this a money maker, but creatively, Dave should stay in the mix.

No shit. As soon as it becomes available, I'm buying 10 tickets for my hardcore VH friends (they're paying me back). This tour will be like KISS selling out Tiger Stadium in minutes.

FUCKING HUGE NEWS.

[ELVIS]

Yeah right...

[ELVIS]

And...um...uhh...

I'll pay you back...

[binnie]

Originally posted by Barbarella's bf
The 2004 Tour gross(ed) $40 million... with DLR at the helmet it will pull more puds.....
don't you worry about it.

Yep.

How many dates did they do in '04 though. Was it more than 40?

[GreenBayLA]

I think curiosity factor alone will fill the halls. I'd love a new album but let em get thru a tour first and see what happens.
That's how Aerosmith did it. Of course they had original lineup for the 1984 Back in the Saddle tour.

[T4GUITAR]

Originally posted by diamondjimi
This tour will sell out every damn show . Mark my words.
When people start hearing the tour commercials on the radio tickets will fly !

Every seat sold ,guaran-fuckin-teed !

I'll be waiting for Edwad & Alice to start the Tubby & Saucey bashing...

I was just thinking the same thing. When people hear the opening riff to Unchained or Running with the Devil and the announcer saying "coming soon Van Halen with original vocalist David Lee Roth" they will be stoked!

[kamaboko]

2006 Take for major US tours:

U2, $154.2 million
The Rolling Stones, $92.5 million
Eagles, $63.2 million
Paul McCartney, $56 million
Elton John, $48.9 million
Neil Diamond, $44.7 million
Jimmy Buffett, $44 million
Rod Stewart, $40.3 million
Dave Matthews Band, $39.6 million
Celine Dion, $38.5 million
Kenny Chesney, $31.5 million
Green Day, $31 million
Coldplay, $30.1 million
Destiny's Child, $24.8 million
Diddy, $24.3 million
Gwen Stefani, $23.9 million
Toby Keith, $22.2 million
Motley Crue, $22 million
50 Cent, $19.7 million
Bruce Springsteen, $19.6 million
Eminem, $17.8 million
Jay-Z, $17.5 million
Barry Manilow, $17.2 million
Hilary Duff, $17.1 million
Kanye West, $16.9 million
Dr. Dre, $16.9 million
Rascal Flatts, $16.3 million
Aerosmith, $16.3 million
Bon Jovi, $15.8 million
Tom Petty, $14.9 million

[kamaboko]

A good read on what it costs to hit the road:
---------------------

For most rock and pop acts summertime is touring time, so if you're a music fan you might have recently found yourself in the Staples Center in LA or under the stars at New York's Jones Beach Theater, taking in the likes of Norah Jones, Dave Matthews, Madonna, or Prince. It's also likely that you left with your wallet a good deal lighter than you expected.


For a typical night at a concert, the tab for two people, including parking, souvenir T-shirts, a snack, and so-so tickets, is about $270. While cynics and rock managers might suggest it's a bargain compared to gassing up your car, the current rock concert business has nothing in common with the days when you could see The Who at the Fillmore for $3.50 and promoter Bill Graham coaxed stars like Crosby Stills Nash & Young out for an encore by slipping a $100 bill under their dressing room door. Indeed, rock and pop concerts grossed an estimated $2.5 billion in ticket sales last year (not counting income from merchandise like T-shirts and souvenir programs), with the top 100 tours accounting for $1.95 billion of that and Bruce Springsteen alone selling $116 million worth of tickets. So if looking into your wallet after a concert doesn't make you happy, who is smiling?

Well, Bruce Springsteen, obviously. And Simon & Garfunkel, whose just-completed and highly successful tour had a top ticket price of $250. And Prince, whose extended '04 tour proved one of the year's surprise moneymakers, reportedly grossing more than $100 million. But while bragging rights count for something, the real question isn't "how much did you gross?" but "how much did you keep?" In the rock business, finding an answer is as difficult as figuring out what makes a record a hit.

"Every deal has its own flavor," says Gary Bongiovanni, editor of Pollstar, the concert business trade magazine. "The bigger acts generally take out more." Just how much an artist did-or didn't-pocket is not the kind of information managers are in the business of broadcasting. But according to tour industry accountants and promoters, there are a few rules of thumb.

Wayne Coleman, whose company Royalty Compliance Organization performs tour accounting for artists, suggests any established performer working larger venues-anything over 5,000 seats-should be aiming to walk away with 25 percent of the tour gross. Says Jeff Apregan, a California-based promoter and tour consultant whose projects have included Rolling Stones, Smashing Pumpkins, and Metallica tours: "The old rule was that if you took the total gross and subtracted your cost for sound and lights, the talent should be left with 50 percent." Out of that, tour expenses have to be paid-and since expenses have climbed steadily over the last few years, therein often hinges the success or failure of a tour. "With a new act, the margins invariably go down," says Coleman. "There are more market-laden costs and usually heavier entourage expenses. It's all new to these performers and not as much of a business to them. Because of that, the money on these tours is sometimes marginal, even when the artist is coming off a big hit." By comparison, Apregan points to Jackson Browne, an artist who hasn't had a hit in many years but draws well on the road, as the kind of performer who has learned how to control expenses and keep a bigger chunk of his road gross. "For an artist like that, the lion's share should be greater," says Apregan.

Jamie Kitman, whose firm HornblowGroupUSA has been managing alternative rock bands since 1987, believes all rock economics to be distorted and says it's particularly easy for young bands to get the wrong impression. "I wish it was 25 percent of the gross for us," he says. Kitman counsels his acts against aspiring to the first-class lifestyle. He recalls one client that landed a gig as the opening act on Hootie and the Blowfish's first tour. It was an enormous tour fueled by a big hit record: Kitman says the headliners were receiving guarantees of $125,000 a night, traveled in five buses, and had seven semi-trucks full of equipment. "The roadies had their own bus," he says. And while his own clients certainly weren't getting rich on the tour (headliners are often able to get young bands to open for next to nothing because of the exposure they'll receive), he was more concerned about their forming a false impression of life on the road. "In terms of creature comforts, it's never going to get better than that," says Kitman. "And it's hard not to think that anything after that has been ruined. But the fact is there is no correlation in real life between how luxurious a tour is and how much fun you're having. You meet loads of miserable people on $700-a-day tour buses, or even bands that have to have separate buses for members because they can't stand each other. Of course, if someone's been on the road for the last 10 years, you can't begrudge them comforts. But I always advise my people to have fun now, even if you're sleeping on a friend's floor, and not worry about how many buses you have."

Generally, artists are either paid a flat fee or a guarantee as a down payment against a percentage of the gate. If an established artist is headlining a large arena like Madison Square Garden, it's likely that they can command more than 90 percent of the ticket gross. For a show by an artist like Madonna, the nightly ticket gate might hover around $1.5 million, so under the general rule of thumb, the job of the road manager and tour accountant is figuring out how to keep about $375,000 of that.

It isn't easy. Aside from lights and sound, artists generally have to pay management and booking commissions-perhaps as much as 25 percent. Then there are salaries for crew and support musicians, transportation, and per diems for band and crew that start at $25 and go considerably higher for sought-after professionals both onstage and off. Since a big tour can have 100 employees, expenses quickly become the make-or-break consideration. Says Kitman: "Even a mid-level tour has fixed costs of $25,000 to $50,000 a week." Beyond tickets, performers look to merchandise like T-shirts and programs. For some, like pop star Britney Spears, who had to pull the plug on her heavily choreographed summer tour when she developed a sore knee, this is a major source of income: The singer has one of the highest per-capita merchandising grosses in the business, reportedly averaging $8 to $9 per head, of which Spears is reputed to keep as much as 50 percent. But this industry, which was once viewed as the great gravy train for touring rock stars, isn't generally producing as well as it once did, and performers who in the past could count on six- and seven-figure merchandising advances now have to settle for a percentage of what they can actually sell-and recent figures have been decidedly mixed. While the summer's reunion tour by alternative rock legends the Pixies was said to be doing a bang-up merchandising business-one industry wag who attended a London concert described the line to buy T-shirts as "6,000 guys who looked like Nick Hornby"-the older, better-heeled fans of veteran acts for whom escalating ticket prices have never seemed an obstacle are now showing less and less interest in shelling out an additional $40 for a pair of jerseys. Instead, artists are looking to a new and rapidly developing business in souvenir CDs of the concerts. While bands like the Allman Brothers, Phish, and Pearl Jam have been posting and selling downloadable concert CDs via the Internet for some time, a new business of "instant" concert CDs-sold as fans depart the venue-is also emerging. At $20 to $25 apiece, it could be a major moneymaker for artists with the contractual freedom to sell recordings outside of their deals with record companies. Of course, if concert recordings become a big business the record labels are going to insist that any new band signing a deal with them include at least a portion of the rights to these souvenir recordings as well. Labels have long looked for a way into the concert business, occasionally buying venues and merchandising companies, and unsuccessfully attempting to make merchandising and publicity rights a part of record deals. In a possible indication of things to come, the British record company EMI last year signed a worldwide deal with English pop singer Robbie Williams that, in return for a hefty multi-million-dollar advance, gave EMI a portion of his future touring income.

Indeed, declining record sales are just another reason that artists want to do well on the road. In a business that can no longer afford the overly generous recording contracts that were often an industry staple, some artists are learning that the road also enables you to control your own musical and financial destiny. Several successful "jam" bands without major-label contracts, including Widespread Panic and String Cheese Incident, boast devoted concert followings and make what one industry insider terms "phenomenal money." Yet increasingly artists are being forced to confront a less predictable marketplace. Several touring warhorses such as the Dead, Fleetwood Mac, and Ozzy Osborne's Ozzfest experienced surprisingly soft ticket sales this summer, while even the price-sensitive Lollapalooza tour of alternative rock bands was forced to cancel when slow advance sales held little possibility of anything other than multimillion-dollar losses. That means artists are going to have to do whatever it takes if they expect to reach the promised land of big paydays, private jets, and luxury hotel suites at the top of the concert heap.

"The ideal of the starving artist no longer exists," says Kitman. "Everything is for sale all the time, and if it's legal, I don't have any problem. It's only your lifestyle and your artist's sense of self that will determine how grubby you get."

[Matt White]

2004 FLEECE THE SHEEP tour

"...just over 5,000 seats a night, on average..."


Yeah, DAVID LEE ROTH & EVH will sell more than that abortion

[Va Beach VH Fan]

Originally posted by griffin6002
Twice in the last few years I've gotten to see Dave in concert up close and personal because there were only a couple hundred people in attendance. Everybody had a front row seat. And then Van Hagar came to town and they could only fill 70 percent of a 10,000 seat arena. What was worse was there were no chicks at the concert, and the average age must have been over 40. Dave put on the better show, even though he didn't have the expensive stage production that Van Hagar had. The reality though is that he couldn't have been making much money with that few people in attendance. And I read the Van Hagar 2004 tour LOST money. It will be interesting to see what venues Van Halen plays this summer and how many people show up. Yeah, people on these boards will go, but are the young kids interested? A lot of the 1980's fans have grown up and grown old and going to a concert might not be their idea of a fun time anymore. Is Warner Bros. interested in a new record with the classic lineup? If this tour makes a profit, they'll resign VH and we'll get a new album... if the tour bombs, nobody will be interested in the band. It's all about money.

Just out of curiosity bud, how old are you ??

The only reason I brought it up is I don't think you'll find anyone who saw Van Halen live in their prime even remotely consider the possibility that this tour would lose money...

Most rock fans, not even Van Halen fans, have known for 20 years that Roth-led VH and Van Hagar are completely apples and oranges, and have stayed away from the Hagar shows entirely for that reason....

Now that Roth is back with VH, those fans will return...

Now, let's remember this also, they're not getting carried away and playing stadiums... I would think that if they did, then you might have a valid point in terms of losing money... They MAY have been able to swing that in '96, but not now....

Also, and I personally don't know the answer to this question, but what constitutes "losing money" ?? If the average ampitheater holds 20,000, do they have to get 15,000 tickets sold ??

But I think that's a moot point also, I'd be very surprised if the vast majority of dates are sold out....

[binnie]

In principle, Roth and Eddie together should sell a LOT of tickets.

But we also ahve to bear in mind promotion: if the tour isn't promoted properly, if the TV and radio don't pic up on it etc etc then we could have a problem


Now, I don't see that happening, but you never know in Van Halen land....

[Atomic Dyver]

Originally posted by bueno bob
They're on shaky ground now anyway, regardless of what the tour does...

If it was a classic 4 reunion, anybody would sign them...

With Wolfgang, who knows...maybe...

There it is.....now the question is: Did Eddie shoot them in the foot on purpose?

[kamaboko]

Will they make cash? Hmmm...there's a good chance. Will it rate with the Stones or U2? Not even close. I'm curious as to how much people here think they'll pocket (e.g., after the supporting orgs have benn paid).