The Army Boxing Thread

**binnie** · 04-13-2010, 03:11 PM

Originally posted by sonrisa salvaje

Lucian Bute vs. Edison Miranda

I'm calling for another upset here. I don't think Bute has fought a world class fighter yet. Bute has speed and quickness and should be able to outpount Miranda easily if he can survive getting hurt. We know that Miranda is a devistating power puncher who will be chasing Bute all night. The million dollar question is what happens to Bute's legs the first time he gets caught by a decent shot. I don't think he can make it, thus i am taking Miranda in a knockout by round 9.

That's an interesting call, really interesting.

Miranda can certainly bang, but that's it. I expect Bute to solidly out-box him, probably KO'ing him in the latter rounds. Bute has underrated power - remember, he's the only man to stop Librado Andrade (who has a superhuman resiliancy), a man who is surely a world class fighter? If Bute were in the 'Super Six', I defintely think he'd be a favourite to win. I just see his south paw stance, solid jab and footwork being a hard night's work for Miranda, who has traded off his power for too long. Bute by late KO or very clear decision.

I totally agree with you on Martinez-Pavlik, however.

**sonrisa salvaje** · 04-13-2010, 04:56 PM

It is definitely arguable that Andrade is a world class fighter. I did't mean to imply that he is not an excellent fighter. I wasn't really familiar with him until he rocked Bute's world the first time. I was in fact shocked the second time they fought when Bute disposed of him so easily. I think it is probably safe to say that you have to be big fight fan to know either Bute or Andrade. I'm sure a casual fan wouldn't know either of them. There is no doubt, if Miranda doesn't knock Bute out, there is no way he can box his way to a win because Bute is just too talented.

**binnie** · 04-13-2010, 05:03 PM

Agreed that you'd have to be a fight fan to have heard of Bute or Andrade. But then, you'd have to be a hardcore fight fan to have heard of all of the guys in the supermiddleweight top ten - but they're still all world class. There were plenty of people clamouring for Andrade to be in the super six, so I'd definitely say he's a top ten supermiddleweight.

Bute-Miranda will be an interesting once though.

**Seshmeister** · 04-13-2010, 05:38 PM

Originally posted by sonrisa salvaje

Well, i see Holyfield beat Botha. Bad news, however, as Holyfied captured a belt and now wants Vlad or Vitali. If this were to happen overseas, it may actually get sanctioned and that would be very bad for Evander. I think he doesn't realize that he could get killed.

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/box...ory?id=5074745

Those two are filling football stadia with 80 000 and getting TV audience shares of 80% in Germany. A fight between one of them and Holyfield could make a lot of money which is what heavyweight boxing is always about.

I hear they are now calling out Haye for running away from a fight. What they don't mention is the shitty deals they offered whereby they got at least 80% plus money from his next 6 fights or something ludicrous.

**sonrisa salvaje** · 04-14-2010, 11:22 AM

Originally posted by Seshmeister

Those two are filling football stadia with 80 000 and getting TV audience shares of 80% in Germany. A fight between one of them and Holyfield could make a lot of money which is what heavyweight boxing is always about.

Spot on there. At the end of the day, it's not about safety or what is right or wrong. It is about the money.

**binnie** · 04-14-2010, 11:54 AM

Originally posted by Seshmeister

Those two are filling football stadia with 80 000 and getting TV audience shares of 80% in Germany. A fight between one of them and Holyfield could make a lot of money which is what heavyweight boxing is always about.

I hear they are now calling out Haye for running away from a fight. What they don't mention is the shitty deals they offered whereby they got at least 80% plus money from his next 6 fights or something ludicrous.

Yeah, the contracts were ridiculous - if Haye beat Wladimir, he had to give him a rematch AND face his brother. Ridiculous.

Haye has a chance against Wladimir as long as he doesn't get hit cleanly (there is a case to be made for Wladimir being the hardest hitting heavyweight in histroy with one shot.) Wlad lacks confidence and goes to pieces if he gets hit with a big shot. I still think he's funadmentally too big and too skilled for Haye, but I'd love to see it.

Vitali is tougher job. Less fundamentally skilled but much, much toucher. He could take most of Haye's shots and keep coming, and that's bad news for David.

These fights have to be made though. No-one has given a shit about heavyweight boxing since Lennox Lewis retired

**binnie** · 04-18-2010, 02:57 PM

I called it on both fights last night:

Bute Ko'd Miranda in 3 - he would be hell for anyone in the Super six, IMO.

Martinez beat Pavlik on a UD.

These fights were not shown in the UK so I haven't seen them, but from what Iu read, knockdown aside, Martinex was fairly dominant and made a mess of Pavlik.

**binnie** · 04-18-2010, 02:58 PM

Reports are also coming in that Edwon Valero, a guy was beaten all his opponents by KO, has been arrested on charges of murdering his wife.

**POJO_Risin** · 04-18-2010, 04:45 PM

Yeah...I hate to admit it, but I don't know much about Martinez. Being a Cleveland guy, I wanted Pavlik to win the fight...

didn't see it...going to watch it tonight...

Someone told me Martinez used to be a biker...or tennis player...or some shit like that.

Just read the shit about Valero...fucking moron...

everyone knows when you off your wife...not to fucking tell people...

**binnie** · 04-18-2010, 05:07 PM

Martinez is Argentianian, iand it seemsthat eh's spent a lot of his career fighting bums. He is an exceptionally fst junior middleweight, fights out of a southpaw stance and has great, great movement. He gotted robbed against Kermit Cintron a few years ago, a fight that was ruled a draw but which he won handidly. Then he took on Paul Williams at 160 and lost a close decison - one of those fights that could have been ruled either way. He certainly gave Williams hell, and I imagne that Williams-Martinez II will be the next fight.

I've always liked Kelly Pavlik, a no-nonesense guy that comes to fight and took on all comers. That being said, I've never been sold on him as the 'Great White Hope' - his limitations are glaring, poor defense, a very basic footwork. I expect he'll go up to 168 now, there are more lucrative fights up there. At that weight, however, he can't count on being the bigger man. I really don't see him winning another title......

**sonrisa salvaje** · 04-19-2010, 10:12 AM

Congrats to Binnie for two excellent predictions on Saturday. My hat is off to Bute. I would have to say that he is the real deal at this point. I fully admit i understimated his power. I never saw him knocking Miranda out. I thought Bute was walking into a trap and it turned out to be an easy nights work instead. Evidently, Bernard Hopkins has called Bute out and they are considering a fight with him. They also asked him about the Super 6 tournament and if he had it on his mind. Bute said he wasn't worried about it and that he would fight the winner of the tournament at some point. It appears the hype for an Andre Ward/ Lucian Bute fight is already brewing.
In regards to Martinez, the fight i did get right, he came out and dominated Pavlik in the first 3 to 4 rounds and the Kelly took control in the middle rounds. Kelly already had a small cut over his left eye when in the 8th or 9th Sergio landed a big shot to the right eye cutting him badly. With both eyes bleeding, Kelly couldn't see the double jabs coming to the right side of his face. Kelly would block the first one and then get tagged with the second leading to combinations by Sergio. Sergio coasted to victory by taking the 9th thru the 12th.
They noted that Kelly Pavlik had a rematch clause in the contract. Kelly said after the fight that he fully intends to excercise the rematch. Paul Williams was at ringside and it was noted that should Kelly win, he and Williams would be the next fight. Martinez wants the rematch with Williams badly, but it looks like he is going to have to do the rematch first.
Great night of boxing and sets up for some great opportunities coming later in the year.

**sonrisa salvaje** · 04-19-2010, 10:15 AM

Reports coming in that Velero hung himself in jail and is dead.

**sonrisa salvaje** · 04-19-2010, 10:18 AM

Velero has committed suicide. Here is a link.

Valero, held in wife's death, kills himself in jail

http://sports.espn.go.com/sports/boxing/news/story?id=5112471

Police say former boxing champ Edwin Valero has killed himself in his jail cell just hours after he was arrested in his wife's killing.

**jhale667** · 04-19-2010, 11:27 AM

Wasn't that familiar with Valero, but sounds like he regularly beat his wife's ass...not cool.

Man, Martinez outclassed Pavlik all night, and turned his face into hamburger... I don't see Pavlik having any better luck in the eventual rematch...

**binnie** · 04-19-2010, 03:04 PM

Valero was one of the stars of the future - he had Ko'd all of his 24 opponents, and there is a case to be made for him being the hardest hitting pound for pound fighter ever. Thunderous power. His skills were improving too. I think he was on the cusp of being a threat to anyone at 135, and eventually at 140.

It seems that he was a troubled human being, however.

The Army Boxing Thread

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