The Army Boxing Thread

[binnie]

This weekend:

Yurkoris Gamboa - Danield Ponce Delon.

I have a feeling that Ponce Delon causes an upset. I don't know why, it's just an inkling.

Vitali Klitschko - Tomaz Adamek.

Vitali on points. If only bigger heavies had the heart - and skills - of Adamek, the Klits might have some genuine opposition. Adamek will give Vitali some movement and angles that he's not seen in a long time: he may even take a couple of rounds. But Vitali cuts off the ring and essentially clubs Adamek into retreat.

[binnie]

Vitali TKos a game Adamek in 10.

Gamboa beats Ponce DeLeon via a technical decision in round 9 (i.e a cut).

I'm pleased to be wrong about Gamboa - he's always been flashy and powerful, but tonight it was good to see his composure.

[Dave's Bitch]

Have to throw my hat into the fantasy ring with a few dream fights

Jack Johnson vs Ali

Marciano vs Jack Dempsey

And a couple of lower weight for shits and giggles

Jake Lamotta vs Marvin Hagler

Stanley Ketchel vs Bhop

Tommy Hearns vs Manny Pacquiao

[Dave's Bitch]

I'm enjoying this. Here's some more fantasy match-ups at heavy for you to think about (again, all are in their primes):

Jack Dempsey vs Max Baer

Baer and Dempsey would be brutal .Even though Baer had one of the haedest right hands in the game and had more heart than he is given credit for,I gotta give it to dempsey on pure aggression.Plus the fact Baer liked to clow around and did not like to train too much

[Dave's Bitch]

Jack Dempsey vs Jack Johnson
I MUST get opinions on this,i have had this take so many times you would not believe.I hands down give it to Johnson,On account of he was a superb defensive expert and Dempsey's aggressive style would play straight into his hands.But, every other person seems to think Dempsey

[binnie]

Have to throw my hat into the fantasy ring with a few dream fights

Jack Johnson vs Ali

Marciano vs Jack Dempsey

And a couple of lower weight for shits and giggles

Jake Lamotta vs Marvin Hagler

Stanley Ketchel vs Bhop

Tommy Hearns vs Manny Pacquiao

Tommy Hearns vs Manny Pacquiao (at 147 I presume?)

Hearns's height advantage make him an absolute stylistic nightmare for Manny. Add in his power advantage and superior footwork and its a bad day at the office for Pacman, who is TKO'd in 8.

Stan Ketchel vs BHop.

Difficult to call. I make it a rule never to bet against BHop, but I'll break it this time. Against fighters, BHop wins every time because he likes guys who come at him in straight lines. Here, however, he's against a guy who can move and has good work rate - Ketchel via UD.

Jake Lamota vs Marvin Haglar.

This is Haglar's fight all night. More powerful, and he could match Lamota for toughness and workrate. Add into that his far, far superior skills set and I see a game Lamota getting knocked all over the ring. It would probably be stopped on cuts in Hagler's favour.

Dempsey vs Marciano.

Can you say war? In terms of power, aggression and toughness these guys are fairly evenly matched. I'd say that Marciano was much harder to his cleanly, which gives him and edge; however, Dempsey was a brutal body puncher, which is his way to victory here. It's go into the late rounds, but I think Dempsey edges it via TKO.

Dempsy vs Jack Johnson.

Johnson toys with Dempsey, who spends most of his time punching air, getting tied up and being off balance. Johnson really was a genius.

Johnson vs Ali.

Pre-layoff Ali takes it; post layoff doesn't. The difference was Ali's mobility in his earlier career. He can't stop Johnson, but he gives him all sorts of things he's not seen before: speed and combinations. That being said, Ali never came up against anyone as defensively savy as Johnson - the closest would be Norton, who gave him fits in all three fights. Maybe, just maybe, Johnson would have baffled him.

[binnie]

Sept 17: Floyd Mayweather jr - Victor Ortiz.

I think everyone would admit that a prime Floyd Mayweather beats the best Victor Ortiz 10 times out of 10. The interesting things here is that - at 34 years old - how long can Floyd's prime continue. Coming off a 16 month layoff, you have to wonder if his reflexes and skills will diminish, and if that gives Ortiz a chance. Freddie Roach said after the Mosely fight that Floyd's legs had 'gone': Floyd claimed that he was adopting a more fan-friendly style. Given that after the second round Mosely barely landed a good shot, I'd agree with Mayweather. The question of what condition he's in, however, is important and compounded by the fact that a young, fast and hungry Ortiz will be he toughest opponent since Hatton in 2007. If the waters get choppy, will he still have the hunger to pull through?

I think so. In truth, I'm not expecting to see a Floyd in decline - he's been sparring southpaws for quite some time (including Kassim Ouma), so I'm expecting him to be sharp and ready. That being said, Ortiz'a southpaw stance may cause Floyd some problems in the first three rounds, and I don't think Floyd will look as dominant as he normally does in the early stages. However, once Floyd gets his timing right, Ortiz will be in trouble. Ortiz does not have the best footwork and balance, and I think his aggression will therefore play into Floyd's hands. I expect Floyd to go to the body more than usual, and I'll be interested to see how Ortiz reacts when things aren't going his way. We may even see a stoppage, but I wouldn't bank on it as Mayweather doesn't like to take chances if he can avoid it.

Floyd by UD.

[binnie]

A lot of the pundits are really giving Ortiz a chance here. People seem to read a lot into Mosely landing one decent punch on Mayweather: on that one punch is staked Floyd's apparent decline.

I like Ortiz: but how can you back a guy who struggled with Lamont Peterson against Floyd Mayweather?

[sonrisa salvaje]

A lot of the pundits are really giving Ortiz a chance here. People seem to read a lot into Mosely landing one decent punch on Mayweather: on that one punch is staked Floyd's apparent decline.

I like Ortiz: but how can you back a guy who struggled with Lamont Peterson against Floyd Mayweather?

I'm with you. I can't see it. When is the last time Floyd had a close fight? Ortiz can be hit and Floyd for the most part cannot be hit. Floyd has the significant speed advantage. I don't understand how this calculates to a close fight even if you factor in layoffs and age. I give Ortiz a puncher's chance but that is it. This will likely be a boring whitewash of the scorecards.

[binnie]

There are some unknown's here: will the layoff affect Floyd at 34 years old? Will the southpaw stance allow Ortiz to be more succesful than other's have been? Will FLoyd, at 34, start to show signs of age? But these are little more than speculation: you can't build an argument on an unknown.

Ortiz is relentless, reasonably fast and reasonably powerful. But he looked awful against Lamont Peterson and - no offence to Peterson - he's a long way down from Floyd. Ortiz's poor balance, sloppy defense and problems making weight make for an uphill battle, IMO.

AS for when the last time Floyd had a hard night? Castilio I, I guess. It could be argued that the early rounds vs Judah were hard going I suppose. But he won every round against Hatton, Marquez, and all but one against Mosely. Is Ortiz as good - let alone better - than those guys? Bigger, certainly (although not by much in the case of Mosely), but better? I think not.

[DlocRoth]

I was thinking about getting the fight tonight.

So I looked into it and 70 bucks? WTF?

Fuck that shit. Floyd is rich enough.

That said, Floyd is gonna destroy Ortiz. UD.

[binnie]

Floyd Ko's Ortiz in 4.

As ever, it's 'controversial'. Floyd won the first 3 with a more aggressive style than usual (there is a case for Ortiz taking the second). In the 4th - which Floyd was winning - Ortiz backed Floyd to the ropes, missed all of his punches and then billy-goated butted him in the face. Joe Cortez took away a point. Ortiz had apologized twice, they touch gloves and then Floyd hit him with a left and a right.

It is perfectly legal, but classless on Floyd's part. It is taking 'protect yourself at all times' to the letter. To my eyes, Ortiz knew he was getting whooped and decided to stay down.

Not sure why Floyd's being more aggressive of late. He was still dominant against a young, hungry and bigger fighter in his prime, however.

[Fairwrning]

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[jhale667]

Floyd Ko's Ortiz in 4.

As ever, it's 'controversial'. Floyd won the first 3 with a more aggressive style than usual (there is a case for Ortiz taking the second). In the 4th - which Floyd was winning - Ortiz backed Floyd to the ropes, missed all of his punches and then billy-goated butted him in the face. Joe Cortez took away a point. Ortiz had apologized twice, they touch gloves and then Floyd hit him with a left and a right.

It is perfectly legal, but classless on Floyd's part. It is taking 'protect yourself at all times' to the letter. To my eyes, Ortiz knew he was getting whooped and decided to stay down.

Not sure why Floyd's being more aggressive of late. He was still dominant against a young, hungry and bigger fighter in his prime, however.

It is indeed taking "Protect yourself at all times" to the letter...but IMO understandable after that blatant, flagrant head-butt. Ortiz got frustrated because he was hitting air the entire preceding exchange, did a dirty move, and was immediately forced to pay for it. Cortez looked like a deer in the headlights almost as much as Vic did...

[binnie]

I guess you could say that it was legal but classless on Floyd's part. Not sure how Ortiz is coming out of this smelling of roses though - that was a SHOCKING head butt.

Let's just hope Floyd stays active. I think Berto would be a good fight next if Pacman can't happen.