The Army Boxing Thread

[ALinChainz]

Yeah, Floyd was landing the much cleaner shots and really rocking Hatton.

The problem with Floyd is that he doesn't use the jab nearly enough. And Hatton did do a lot of hitting behind the head.

Hatton is SO USED to the hometown crap in the UK that although he was the fan fave with all of his fans there, he wasn't getting the lean from the ref. Of course he was going to complain about Cortez after, but he didn't in the ring immediately after. That always kills me how fighters wait until days after instead of taking it up right then and there. I know it wouldn't do any good, but say something then.

I tend to agree with most that saw it, Hatton was game, but not in the same league. His corner threw in the towel even as Cortez was waving the fight over.

The first round he really utilized it was round eight I believe and he went 11-15.

Hatton was doing a lot of holding himself and the pre-fight instructions from Cortez (who I also though was not the ref for this fight) told me right away that he was going to be watching Hatton and the holding.

He instructed Floyd first and told him that he won't be giving him any warnings and would take points away in a hurry. He told Hatton that he WOULD warn him and take away points if he had to.

Two seperate instructions.

Two judges had it 89-81 after nine. I had it closer at 87-83.

[binnie]

Hatton's a fighter whose fought outside the UK a lot. I don't think he's fought here since the Tzysu fight back in 2004. In his fights since then, he hasn't had the hometown advantage (not the I really understand what a hometown advantage is with regards to the referee, a rings and ring. I can see how it might sway the judges though..)

The reason that Floyd wasn't jabbing is because his jab couldn't hold Hatton off in the first six. Same thing happened against De La Hoya. It was when he got his distance established that the jab came into play.

I don't think that Hatton was looking to take anything away from Floyd, he was probably trying to explain to himself how he lost, if you know what I mean. He felt that the ref was being unfair to him. But given that Floyd was winning the inside battle anyway, it wouldn't have made any difference. Floyd showed why he's one of the best in the world that night (even people who don't think he's THE best, like me, always put him in the top 3). He may come across as being an asshole, but he's one hell of a boxer.

Yeah, I has 87-83 too. I think that's damn respectable against Floyd, especially when you think that a point was taken away. Like I said, the first 5 or 6 rounds were damn close, even if Floyd never really looked like loosing.

I think Cortez was getting involved WAY too soon in the first three but it damaged both fighters equally - it broke the rhythm of the fight rather than ruining Hatton's chances. At first I thought I was watching an amater fight, he wan't going to even give them chances to throw punches inside. He was clearly EXPECTING Hatton to be dirty, and maybe that effected his judgement and made him jump in before he had too. But like I said, it wouldn't have made a difference.

I'm all for bending the rules: Holyfield has won a lot of fights with his head; Ali used to lean on people, and rest his jab on their face, both of which are illegal; and in that fight, Floyd was throwing forearms, and holding more than Hatton - he was just doing it more intelligently, so Cortez couldn't see. To me, that's part of the game. That's boxing.

I tell ya, if I was in the corner of a guy fighting Floyd, I'd tell them to be dirty: headbut, gouge, hit low, hit in the kidneys, use elbows. That's fighting - you can't go in the water without getting wet. And stuff like that happens in every single boxing match that happens, it's just part of it. The refs job is to keep it in limits.

I really enjoyed this fight though....

[binnie]

Originally posted by ALinChainz
I had it closer at 87-83.

That's how I had it. Pretty damn respectable against Floyd, especially when a point was taken away.

I don't think that Miguel Cotto will do as well as that against FLoyd actually, he doesn't move in fast enough to cause Mayweather any bother....

[ALinChainz]

Changing gears here, something I'm looking into, Fantasy Boxing.

Looking at these sites. Would like to start my own league of course.

http://kofantasyboxing.com/

http://www.vivi.com/

http://www.geocities.com/joker_dude2001/fantbox.html

http://www.ultimatebaseball.0catch.com/

http://www.doghouseboxing.com/Ed_Ludwig/ludwig040904.htm

The last one is a pay gig, but I'm looking into joining one myself or creating one, just to see how things go. The new year is probably a good time as some of the leagues appear to be seasonal or time oriented.

[binnie]

Al, when I have more time I will check those sites out - sounds fun...

Couple of big fights in Feb:

Pavlick-Taylor II

Jones-Trinidad.

As I've said before, Jones will walk the Trinidad fight. Pavlick will probably win also, unless the extra 6lbs makes a difference (they;re fighting at 166) - Taylor was struggling to make 160. I'd like to see another war, but I imagine that Pavlick will win...

[ALinChainz]

What sucks about Taylor-Pavlik II is that it is a non-title affair.

The fantasy boxing was just something I was checking out on my own and may play myself just to get a feel before trying to strike up a league here.

[binnie]

Originally posted by ALinChainz
What sucks about Taylor-Pavlik II is that it is a non-title affair.

.

Yeah, I know. I think that's because Taylor physically cannot make 160 anymore. I'm guessing his plan is to move up to 168? The super-middleweight division is starting to look interesting: Kessler, Miranda, Bika (quite impressed with him), Lucien Bute, Carl Froch....

Three years from now it could be quite competitive, although my guess is that once Calzaghe retires Kessler is going to wipe the floor with everyone....

[binnie]

Hopkins says that he'll never lose to a "white boy". Oh dear, oh dear....

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/boxing/7133862.stm

American Bernard Hopkins insisted he "would never lose to a white person" when he came face-to-face with Joe Calzaghe in Las Vegas on Friday.

Calzaghe, 35, beat Mikkel Kessler to become undisputed super-middleweight champion last month and is keen to fight Hopkins, 42, next year.

And the pair almost came to blows at the MGM Grand ahead of Ricky Hatton and Floyd Mayweather's weigh-in.

"I would never let a white boy beat me," Hopkins said five times.

"You can print that. I would never lose to a white person. He said on record that he's going to take the fight and that's all you need to hear.

606: DEBATE
Sorry Joe, but you can't cover up 15 years of mediocre bouts with a couple of swansong fights against past-it boxers

CJ

"I haven't ducked nobody in my career, my credibility is intact. Kessler is not in my league, man. Who is Kessler? You think Kessler was a true warrior?"

Calzaghe and Hopkins caused such a commotion in the MGM Grand media centre that former world heavyweight champion Lennox Lewis broke off an interview nearby to listen, as dozens of journalists circled the pair.

"He ducked me four years ago," said Welshman Calzaghe. "He thinks he's a legend but he lost to Jermain Taylor twice and, believe me, he will lose to me.

"He will not beat me throwing 12 punches a round. I throw 1,000 punches a fight. He'll get his arse kicked, full stop.

"I'm undefeated for 17 years - look at his face and look at mine. He's all mouth. When he fights he doesn't fight, he holds.

"He's 42 and can't throw the punches like me, and if we do fight he's going to get beat."

Former middleweight king Hopkins, now campaigning at light-heavy, has a career record of 48 wins, four losses and a draw from 54 fights.

Promoter Frank Warren confirmed an offer had been made to Hopkins and he was awaiting a reply.

He said: "We know Bernard wants the fight in America and we're happy with that. We've made him a good offer and we'll make it happen."

[DlocRoth]

Originally posted by ALinChainz
Changing gears here, something I'm looking into, Fantasy Boxing.

Looking at these sites. Would like to start my own league of course.

http://kofantasyboxing.com/

http://www.vivi.com/

http://www.geocities.com/joker_dude2001/fantbox.html

http://www.ultimatebaseball.0catch.com/

http://www.doghouseboxing.com/Ed_Ludwig/ludwig040904.htm

The last one is a pay gig, but I'm looking into joining one myself or creating one, just to see how things go. The new year is probably a good time as some of the leagues appear to be seasonal or time oriented.

Let's do it!

[jhale667]

Originally posted by binnie
Hopkins says that he'll never lose to a "white boy". Oh dear, oh dear....

Oh fer cryin' out loud. He needs to shut the fuck up.

What I wanna know is: Is there anyone, white, black, latin, asian, what-the-fuck-EVER that can beat Mayweather?
I mean, yes, he is one of if not the best fighters in the sport, but god he is annoying...
Hatton staggered him once with a jab in the 1st or 2nd round, but the ref (Cortez?) stepped in before he could capitalize on it...may not have made a difference...
but you could tell even Floyd was like "Oh, shit!"

[jhale667]

:p Just saw this:




That's just mean!

[binnie]

Yeah, that is mean.

I thought Floyd was quite respectful after the fight actually.

[binnie]

Originally posted by jhale667
Oh fer cryin' out loud. He needs to shut the fuck up.

What I wanna know is: Is there anyone, white, black, latin, asian, what-the-fuck-EVER that can beat Mayweather?
I mean, yes, he is one of if not the best fighters in the sport, but god he is annoying...
Hatton staggered him once with a jab in the 1st or 2nd round, but the ref (Cortez?) stepped in before he could capitalize on it...may not have made a difference...
but you could tell even Floyd was like "Oh, shit!"

Yeah he was staggered, but after that he never really looked in trouble: even though the first 5 or 6 rounds were close it was largely because Floyd was being so negative. In the same way that De La Hoya pushed him close, but still didn't win; or Jose Luis Castillio pushed him, but didn't win. Moments of vulnerability aren't the same as a near loss (although I had the De La Hyoa fight very close...)

To answer your question, everyone's beatable. Remember how everyone thought that Roy Jones jr was "the greatest fighter of all time", and then he ran into Tarver and Jonson and had his chin exposed? Everyone is beatable. Roy had amazing power, God given ability, and was lightining fast - but he was never as good as the hype. For my money, it's a good thing for him that the fight with Michaleeski was never made because I don't think he would have won.

Having said that, I don't think that there is anyone between 140 and 154 who can beat Floyd. Outside of those categories, it's just academic becuase Floyd isn't big enough to go to 160, and he's too big to get back down below 140.

All this talk about Cotto doesn't ad up to much in my opinion: "He's like Hatton, but bigger" yeah, but he's much slower too. Floyd would be able to keep Cotto away from him I think, which he couldn't do with Hatton. Also, Cotto's chin is remarkalbe easy to hit which would allow Floyd to steal rounds with flashy shots.

Shane Mosely is too old. Whilst you and I both agreed that he still looked strong against Cotto, and he can still compete at the top of the division, he isn't what he used to be: he's not as fast, and his punches didn't look quite as powerful. Five years ago, maybe he'd have beaten Mayweather (it would have been close), but these days I think he would actually be outboxed.

Paul Williams might be an interesting fight, although it's not going to happen until his profile increases. Do we know how Floyd would cope with a 6' welter? Maybe that would be a weakness? I'm not too sure that Williams would be able to land anything meaningful though.

Winky Wright at 154 would stand one hell of a chance of beating Floyd: bigger, very fast, and excellent defense would all pose Mayweather problems. But Christ would it be a dull chess match. Part of me thinks that it might be a repeat of the ass-kicking he gave Mosely, but havng watched him against BHop, I'm guessing that Winky might be a little too old to tango with Mayweather.

Margaritto. I actually think this guy stands the best chance against Floyd. Forget the loss to Williams, that was a guy who doesn't have amazing movement not knowing how to deal with a six foot freak. No shame in that. Margaritto is an exceptional pressure fighter with big power. Like Hatton but a natural welter with savage power. I have always thought, and still do, that he would be the guy with the best chance of beating Mayweather. I'm not saying that he would, but he'd have a better chance than anyone else. But it ain't going to happen because the money won't be there to make this fight.

For my money, Oscar De La Hoya at his peak would have beaten Mayweather at 147, but not at 135. That's what I took away from their fight. Like I said though, it's purely academic - that fight didn't happen, so we'll never know.

So, as it stands at the moment I don't see anyone beating Floyd. It's a shame he wasn't around in a more competitve time: I'd have loved to have seen him against Duran, Leonard, Curry or even Pernell Whitaker. I think he'd have held his own with any of those guys - not sure he'd have beaten them all, or won rematches, but he'd have been there or thereabouts. And that, my friend, is a fine accolade.

[ALinChainz]

Not so sure because look at the fighters that beat Oscar when we was at his peak.

And I will say that I have never seen Hatton hurt like he was against Mayweather and his corner was throwing in the towel at the stoppage.

To me, they did him a favor.

[ALinChainz]

I don't see anyone mentioning Paul Williams at 147.

He throws over 1000 punches a fight and is over 6'0 tall and beat Margarito for his belt in his last fight didn't he?