The Army Boxing Thread

[Dave's Bitch]

Charles never weighed more than 200 pounds but he was a great heavyweight champion.He won the vacant belt by beating joe walcott and decisioned joe lewis to a win.Then his two epic battles with Rocky Marciano.He was also the only guy to take Marciano a full 15 rounds i believe.

[Dave's Bitch]

I also wanted to include Joe Walcott somewhere.10 is not enough.i could maybe do a top 15

[vandeleur]

Man I struggled with 10 ... The combination of who I thought was better than who was bad enough with 10 - 15 would just have me sitting in the corner rocking

[Dave's Bitch]

8) Marciano
9) Sonny Liston

I would switch these two around myself.I have a hard time puttin Marciano in the top 10.His perfect record seems to gloss completely over the quality of his opponents.his most notable fights were Jersey Joe who was 37 and Ezzard Charles who was past his best,and both guys made a mess of him.Don Cockell had been fighting middleweights most of his career.Joe Louis was a shadow of himself and Archie Moore,well who the hell know's how old he was.I understand Rocky had tremendous heart and a hell of a punch but I think more is made of him than should be.I am not saying he was nothing special but the hero worship he get's is not due.To be honest i could see the argument for most boxer's listed here beating Marciano,As well as the otherwise listed Klit brothers and Dempsey.I would put Marciano in the top 15

*Wow does it come off like i hate Marciano.I don't hate him i just think he is a little overrated

[binnie]

Well, this comes down to whether you rank on achievements or ability. Are we talking 'Greatest' (achievements) or 'Best' (ability, or who would in a head to head match up). I tried to balance both.

Put it this way: The Klit brothers would probably beat most guys in our top 10 because they are so fecking big. 6'7" and 250lbs is a different ball park to 6'2'' and 220. Add into that there freakish power and Wladmir's speed of foot, and they are a nightmare. But are they the 'Greatest'? No - there just hasn't been the opposition around to earn that. Both of them beat the shit out of Marciano (who wouldn't have been a heavy today) or Walcot, or Frazier, or any of the other little guys. But they are not greater than them.

Marciano had freakish power and strength. And he never learned how to lose. Charles, Moore and Walcott are very good scalps, and he destroyed Walcot in the rematch.

It's the Tyson argument - it's not who you beat but how you beat 'em.

[vandeleur]

Well, this comes down to whether you rank on achievements or ability. Are we talking 'Greatest' (achievements) or 'Best' (ability, or who would in a head to head match up). I tried to balance both..

With boxing its a tough call ...
I aint an expert on the older era boxers ....am sure db is lying about her age to know all the stuff she does on the wrinklies

But we all except thats its fun but really impossible to compare boxers of differnet era's ... size , training techniques etc etc distort any conclusion.

Possibly the only judgement is achievement but is it better to reign like the klitchko bros were there digging up fat middle weights and reign for years ..or by champion for a short time in the golder era of the 70's ... you pay yout money you make your choice.

Certain boxers for me trancend the sport.
Ali .. stood as more than just a sports man .
Joe louis .. helped in a similar way to what ali did later on .. he effected attitude and culture of the day .

Boxing historically was a suspect if not bent sport thats main purpose was or main intrests were for people to gamble and was populated by thugs .. People like louis and others am sure made it more of a sport as we would see it.

Other boxers ...am thinking people like dempsy ... who wasnt that interested in boxing he just liked to fight people but he helped raise the popularity of boxing to then un seen hights.

All these guys are greats its just what part of their career appeals to you ..

am sure ive lost my train of thought. THough i do need to read up more on the older era fighters me thinks .

[vandeleur]

Manny Pacquiao wins WBO after defeat by Timothy Bradley


Manny Pacquiao has won a WBO review into his split-decision defeat by Timothy Bradley earlier this month.

On the night two judges scored the bout 115-113 in the American's favour, prompting boos around the MGM Grand.

The WBO has now met with five international judges to evaluate a video of the fight and they unanimously scored it in favour of Pacquiao.

The original result still stands as the WBO does not have to power to overturn it, but a rematch could be ordered.

It was a first defeat in seven years for Philippines fighter Pacquiao, who landed 94 more punches than Bradley.

Pacquiao is already guaranteed a rematch because of a clause in his contract.

According to Bob Arum, the promoter for both fighters, 33-year-old Pacquiao has indicated he would prefer the rematch over Bradley forfeiting the WBO welterweight title.

[binnie]

And so the hype train begins......

[Dave's Bitch]

With boxing its a tough call ...
I aint an expert on the older era boxers ....am sure db is lying about her age to know all the stuff she does on the wrinklies

I just read alot of boxing book's and seen a lot of old footage.Boxing history is really interesting

I suggest you star with Jack Johnson.He was the first black heavyweight champ and a defensive master.The guy was Ali before Ali was.The best book i read on him is "Unforgivable Blackness:The rise and fall of Jack Johnson".Some of the stuff will make your head spin

[binnie]

I would suggest starting with Jack Johnson, too. I think he was genius - totally different from anyone who came before.

Then read up on Joe Louis - doing so will introduce you loads of other great fighters he fought like Max Schmeling, Jim Braddock and Max Baer (who is chronically underated).

[sonrisa salvaje]

I would suggest starting with Jack Johnson, too. I think he was genius - totally different from anyone who came before.

Then read up on Joe Louis - doing so will introduce you loads of other great fighters he fought like Max Schmeling, Jim Braddock and Max Baer (who is chronically underated).

I agree with you about Max Baer. I heard his son, who most people know played Jethro in the Beverly Hillbillys, in an interview a few years ago around the time the movie Cinderella Man came out. He was not happy about the way his father was portrayed in the movie. He said he understood Hollywood had to portray the champion as a bad guy to build up Braddock as the underdog but he thought they made Baer out to be a complete jerk which was not truthful. He said he was hurt by that. Just an interesting tidbit i thought i would pass on. Wait....did i really use the word tidbit? I guess i have to give up my man card.

[sonrisa salvaje]

Guys, a lot of you may know about boxrec.com but if you don't it is the easiest site to look up any fighter and view their records inclusive of an entire list of their fights in chronological order with dates and results. Each opponent's name is a link to go to their record as well.

[jhale667]

Guys, a lot of you may know about boxrec.com but if you don't it is the easiest site to look up any fighter and view their records inclusive of an entire list of their fights in chronological order with dates and results. Each opponent's name is a link to go to their record as well.

Cool, thanks!

[vandeleur]

Guys, a lot of you may know about boxrec.com but if you don't it is the easiest site to look up any fighter and view their records inclusive of an entire list of their fights in chronological order with dates and results. Each opponent's name is a link to go to their record as well.

Will check it out

[binnie]

I agree with you about Max Baer. I heard his son, who most people know played Jethro in the Beverly Hillbillys, in an interview a few years ago around the time the movie Cinderella Man came out. He was not happy about the way his father was portrayed in the movie. He said he understood Hollywood had to portray the champion as a bad guy to build up Braddock as the underdog but he thought they made Baer out to be a complete jerk which was not truthful. He said he was hurt by that. Just an interesting tidbit i thought i would pass on. Wait....did i really use the word tidbit? I guess i have to give up my man card.

You did indeed and we shall now refer to you as 'Tiddles'.