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Thread: The Army Boxing Thread

  1. #601
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    Another big weekend of boxing coming up:

    Super Six World Boxing Classic, Carl Froch vs. Mikkel Kessler, 12 rounds, for Froch's WBC super middleweight title

    Adamek vs. Arreola

    Looks like 2 fights that likely will not go the the distance.
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    Froch vs. Kessler will be interesting.

    The Arreola fight could be, too...
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    Arreola - Adamek is an odd fight.

    Arreola has had success at light-heavy and crusier weight, where he has established himself as a heroically tough fighter who wears his opponents down with an accumulation of punishment - I think it's fair to say that he's never been a one punch KO artist. He probably could have dominated the cruiser division for a long time once Haye moved up, so in one sense I think stepping up to heavy is part bold and part stupid - he can't really think that he'll beat a Klitschko, right? Can't doubt his balls though.

    That being said, beating a more shot than Roy Jones Andrew Golota does not eastablish Adamek as a viable force at heavyweight. Beating Arreola certainly would - hell, it'd probably get him a title shot. The only guy to beat Adamek handidly was Chad Dawson, and Arreolla doesn't posses that kind of skill, so I can see a scenario in which Adamek outworks the slower and more powerful guy to a UD. But can Adamek take Arreolla's power? I think that Chris Arreola is a punk, but even I'd admit that he has firly decent hand speed and puts his combinations together well - Adamek is going to be getting hit hard and often, and you never know how a guy reacts to being hit harder than he ever has before. If a KO comes, it will be from Arreola, assuming he's recovered from his Vitali sized ass-kicking.

    There seems to be momentum surrounding Adamek, however, and I actually pick him to edge a UD. It won't be easy, but I think he's smart and tough enough to do it.
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    Froch - Kessler should be very exciting, and I'm finding it very hard to pick.

    Watching Carl Froch, you notive everything that he does wrong - his hands are ridiculiously low, he doesn't move his head, he doesn't really use his freakish reach effectively - but you should be impressed by what he does right. His sheer relentlessness breaks guys down, and he just doesn't seem to know how to lose. Taking Jermain Taylor out with 10 seconds to go and a mile behind on points; pressuring Dirrell for every second of the 36 minutes they fought when a lesser fighter would have become disheartened. For all his flaws, Froch is a nightmare because of that will to win - he was lucky against Dirrell, who I thought won the fight; and he was lucky against Taylor, who was beating him handidly, but hey, he didn't give up when the going got tough in either fight.

    That toughness spells trouble for Mikkel Kessler, a guy whose confidence must surely be at an all time low after the showcase Andre Ward put on the dominate him last time out. Yes, Ward is a dirty mo'fo' (the ref should have taken points off for those buts and the relentless holding), but greats always find a way to win, and faced with Ward's speed, movement and combinations, Kessler had nothing, and nor did his corner - it was shocking seeing him lunge forward and miss all night long, and to me he looked like a fighter in decline, a shell of the man who fought Calzaghe three years ago, who dominated Andrade, and iced Beyer. Maybe it was the fighting of lesser opposition in the years in between Calzaghe and Ward, maybe father time catching up with him, or maybe he's never recovered mentally from losing his '0'. Maybe. I think it was something else however - a hint of arrogance and underpreparation. Team Kessler under-estimated Ward: from what I've read, they didn't even have any southpaw sparring partners in Kessler's camp. It wasn't just the scribes who were shocked by Ward's talent.

    Expect the best Kessler there can be on Saturday, then, a re-charged and re-focussed guy with something to prove in front of his home fans. The good news for the Viking Warrior is that Froch is no Ward - slower than Kessler, and with no real flashy combinations of footwork, Kessler will be able to hit Froch and hit him repeatedly, putting his jab and 1-2s together all night from the outside, and Froch will soak them up. Much is made of Froch's chin - largely by the man himself - but Jermian Taylor, no real puncher, put him on his ass with a right hand, and Kessler's will be a lot harder. This scenario has led many to predict a Kessler UD or late stoppage. I don't see it that way, however. I expect Mikkel will take most of the opening rounds, but I can't get the image of the Ward fight out of my head - Mikkel looked old that night. I expect Froch to learn from the Ward fight and go to Kessler's body, wearing him down before taking control of the fight in the later stages.

    Froch by a hard fought UD - the Kessler of 3 years ago would have taken this, and I wish Mikkel all the best. Froch seems to have momentum, and luck, on his side at the moment, however.

    Hope I'm wrong, and Ward was just a bad day at the office for Kessler. Come on the Viking Warrior!

  5. #605
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    Arreola - Adamek

    Odd fight indeed. I thought Arreola's weigh in may signal something but even this is in the gray area. He was wanting to come in a 240 but instead came in at 250; his people are saying he just couldn't get that much weight off in time for the fight. While it is heavier than he wanted to be, it is still not a bad weight considering he came in at 251 against Klitschko. l feel it is safe to say that Chris' plan is going to be to jump on Adamek quickly and get him out of there. If Adamak can get past the first three rounds, it is probably safe to think that Adamek will coast on points as Chris will tire and it will be harder for him to knock Adamek out as the fight goes later. If i was Adamek i would run the first 3 to 4 rounds and just give those away to Arreola on points, and then from 5 on just try and outbox Chris to win 5 on. I think this is what will happen so i am calling for Adamek to win in a UD. If Adamak tries to man up in the first three, however, and trade with Chris it will be bad news. He should be smarter than this. Of course, if Chris just jumps on him and catches him cleanly from the outset it could be over quickly regardless of Adamek's gameplan. That in a nutshell is the allure of this fight.

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    Froch - Kessler

    I can't hardly pick a winner here. I might as well flip a coin. If i were to bet on the fight i would just take the underdog because you have more to gain with the money line paying off on the underdog than you would making even money on the favorite. Binnie has pointed out all of the issues i have with Kessler and the way he looked in the last fight so i won't rehash it. I picture this fight being like rockem sockem robots and the first one's head to come off is the loser. It should be entertaining while it lasts. I would put an over and under on this fight of 8 because i can't see it going the distance. Both men possess too much power and while the may not have been able to hit Dirrell and Ward, they should be able to hit each other. I'm going with Kessler by KO by the 8th round only by gut feeling. I think Froch may be too arrogant and overconfident and my thinking is that a grounded/brought back down to earth Kessler knows his back is against the wall. Not only does he need this to win or stay close in the tournemant, but he needs to win to have any real consideration in this weight class going forward.

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    Wow. I thought Kessler barely won that fight, he outworked Froch...but some of the scores were kind of out of whack...117-111? Hometown advantage indeed...

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    I think that 'barely won' is a little harsh - I had it 116-112 for Kessler, largely due to the more effective jab and power punching. Froch couldn't really follow up on the leads he got. It was a great, great fight though.

    I am actually pleased that I picked it wrong - I thought Kessler was damaged goods, but he proved me wrong, and it's good to see one of my favourite fighters have such success (a three time champ now), especially against Froch. I can't help but admire Froch as a figher - he's one tough dude who will fight anyone - but he think WAY too highly of himself, IMO. I still don't think Kessler is the man he once was, and his new trainer needs to continue to work on his sharpness, head movement and lateral movement. That being said, this result has thrown the tournament wide open - if Allan Green can upset Andre Ward (he has the power but it's unlikely to happen) then it is anyone's game...

    Adamek outpointed Arreolla last night. The tubby motherfucker spent most of his time flailing around and looking slower than soil erosion. A very focussed and disciplined performance from Adamek, who kept out of the bigger man's way and out-boxed him. Does he beat a Klitschko? Nope, but he's more live than most of the oppoents they face. Arreola needs to either start taking boxing seriously or fuck off....

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    Didn't mean it as "harsh" at all - I though Kessler managed to edge out the win; he was busier, and put his combinations together better than Froch, whom I agree likes himself a little too much.
    Adamek used the Manny approach on Arreola: in - points, out, and Arreola ended up swinging at air most of the evening. He looked sloppy as usual.

  10. #610
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    Props to Froch for being gracious after the fight. I really expected him to cry about the decision but he didn't. Makes me like and respect Froch a lot more than i did.

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    I think that Froch was humbled by Kessler's toughness - Mikkel is nowhere near as skilled as he was, but any questions about his mental toughness should be put away. Kessler pushed Froch back for 12 rounds - Jean Pascal couldn't do that, and he's the lightheavyweight champ! Froch was clearly impressed by Mikkel's strength and endurance, and he REALLY didn't like those body shots.

    Froch is now threatening to pull out of the super six if he doesn't get Arthur Abraham at home though - apparently there was a 'verbal agreement'.

  12. #612
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    Hopefully, it won't come to that. I don't think Froch needs home advantage to beat Abraham.

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    Nor do I - if Froch uses his massive height and reach advantages, he should be able to control Abraham. I don't know if he can KO him, but he could quite easily get a UD. That being said, Froch has a tendency to brawl when he doesn't have to, and if he stands straight in front of AA he'll be getting hit with some bombs, so I can quite easily see him giving AA a victory. To beat Froch though, AA is going to have to learn to be a lot busier....

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    Quote Originally Posted by binnie View Post
    Nor do I - if Froch uses his massive height and reach advantages, he should be able to control Abraham. I don't know if he can KO him, but he could quite easily get a UD. That being said, Froch has a tendency to brawl when he doesn't have to, and if he stands straight in front of AA he'll be getting hit with some bombs, so I can quite easily see him giving AA a victory. To beat Froch though, AA is going to have to learn to be a lot busier....
    Agree...and it's not really in AA's nature to be busy. He is going to give the first half of the fight away and then try and take the second half of the fight against a good jabber with good movement. The most interesting thing, IMO, will be how 2 fighters that never lost before will react coming off of their first losses. The way AA lost i think was much more mentally damaging. I wouldn't like his chances at all.

    In other news, we know what is coming this weekend......the BIG ONE!

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    Quote Originally Posted by binnie View Post
    Mayweather - Mosely is an incredibly interesting match. It would have been even better 7-8 years ago, but hey, at least its happening.

    Mosely is the biggest man Floyd has faced in a long time, and one of the most heavy-handed he's ever faced. He also has very fast hands. That being said, he's doesn't really have a jab, so those fast combinations aren't going to be working off much, and I expect most of them to miss. Lets be honest about this: Mosely has never, EVER, looked good against slick boxers - Winky Wright absolutely schooled him twice, and Vernon Forrest outboxed him comprehensively in their first bout (the second was much closer.) Forrest is no Mayweather. I can see Floyd quite comprehensively outpointing Mosely - Miguel Cotto, no pure boxer, counterpunched Shane all night, and if he can then Floyd will be even more succesful (I actually thought Shane edged it against Cotto, for what it's worth.)

    Mosely is one of my all time favourite fighters, and I'm not being down on him. If a guy comes forward to fight, Mosely will batter him with fast hands and power. But Floyd isn't going to be there to hit. Shane is trading off that spectacular win against Margaritto, who he made look like a mannequin. But that might be a red herring. Margaritto had just been exposed as a cheat in the locker room, and his head cannot have been clear for that fight. I think we have to remember Shane's fight beforehand - he really struggled with Mayorga, and got hit a lot.

    I expect Shane to pressure Floyd all night, and to land some decent shots on him (certainly more than the four, yes, FOUR, that Juan Manuel Marquez managed.) But this will be a lopsided UD for Floyd - Mayweather will not hurt Shane physically but, as with so many other guys he outboxes, the mental scars of being so thoroughly outclassed will be lasting.

    I hope I'm wrong, but I just don't see how Shane does this.
    I'm sticking with that prediction.

  16. #616
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    Well, after struggling with this for a long time, i am going to pick Mosley in a split decision. Shane is fighting an uphill battle including Floyd, his speed, and father time. He has also been wanting this fight badly for awhile. His heart and desire have never been underestimated but i think his power has. I don't think Mayweather's beard has ever been tested. Obviously, Shane has to hit him to find out which is going to be a difficult task. After taking on every big time fighter that would move up in weight to fight him, or drain themselves coming down, Floyd finally has to fight someone that is a world class fighter at this weight. I think Shane is smart enough to attack the body instead of trying to head hunt on Floyd in hopes of slowing Floyd down for the later rounds. I don't think Floyd will stand in the pocket with Shane; he will look to move away and use his hand speed to try and frustrate Shane. This wouldn't be the first time that this has worked against Mosley either. Shane should thus come forward, be busy with his hands even if he doesn't make a lot of solid contact early, and hit the body which will make a somewhat easier target. I think this may be a difficult fight to score just as the Mayweather/ De Lahoya fight was, and perhaps just as controversial. I don't think it is going to be a given that Floyd will win close rounds where Shane is the aggressor and Floyd is on the run. Call me crazy but i just have a feeling. Shane in a shocker.

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    Another bold decision from sonrisa. Personally, I think that without a great jab Shane doesn't get near enough to Mayweather to land significantly on a regular basis. Having fast hands is one thing, but with a guy as mobile as Floyd they have to work off a jab.

    The DLH-Mayweather fight looked close to me when I watched it live, but when I watched it back with a cool head I saw a pretty easy Mayweather victory.

    There is a significant portion of the boxing community which agrees with you though SS....

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    I dunno, I still think Floyd will edge out a win. His jab is way better, which will seriously give him an advantage, even though I agree speed-wise they're pretty evenly matched. This WILL be Floyd's biggest test in ages, but unless he gets caught with something big, I think it may be another version of the Forrest mach I fight...I wonder A) if Floyd is going to stand there and hook with Shane, and B ) if so, he actually has the power to knock down/out Mosely, though...

    Floyd already indicated he's going to use similar methods to what Forrest and Cotto did to win against Mosely, and he's better than both of those two...should be interesting.

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    I will say this...i also think Mayweather's power is underestimated. Anyone that thinks he doesn't have power is a mullet. Like Sugar Ray Leonard always said, "speed is power." I think Floyd's ko percentage would be better if he wanted to knock people out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sonrisa salvaje View Post
    I will say this...i also think Mayweather's power is underestimated. Anyone that thinks he doesn't have power is a mullet. Like Sugar Ray Leonard always said, "speed is power." I think Floyd's ko percentage would be better if he wanted to knock people out.
    Even Mosely's trainer thinks Floyd is going to stand and brawl with Shane if he happens to catch him with a good shot...they're not underestimating him. It would be interesting to see!
    I think Floyd's KO of Hatton was a little overshadowed by the fact that immediately after that (albeit magnificent) "check-hook" he caught him with, Hatton ran his own head straight into the turnbuckle, so there was a question as to whether THAT was the coup de grace as opposed to the punch itself. I agree with the "speed is power" thing to an extent, too - Floyd's worn people down via attrition...in some cases I think RATHER than knock them the F out, but yeah, who knows what that percentage would be if he decided to be more of a headhunter?

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    SUGAR SHANE MOSLEY WILL KO MAYWEATHER TONIGHT! Come onnnnnn over!
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    They aren't even in the same class of fighter.

    I like Mosely just fine, but Mayweather was just too good.

    That fight was horrid...Mayweather dominated from the start. Didn't back down in the last round either...

    Mosely looked decent in one...real good in two...but the rest to Mayweather...I had it all but round two for the mouth from minny...
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    Quote Originally Posted by POJO_Risin View Post
    They aren't even in the same class of fighter.

    I like Mosely just fine, but Mayweather was just too good.

    That fight was horrid...Mayweather dominated from the start. Didn't back down in the last round either...

    Mosely looked decent in one...real good in two...but the rest to Mayweather...I had it all but round two for the mouth from minny...

    Mosely looked old tonight for the first time really...he was just completely outclassed. I thought he had a chance when he rocked Mayweather in the 2nd - and you gotta admit that's probably the hardest shot he's ever been caught with, and he toughed it out. He also proved he can stand in there and hook with a heavy hitter.



    The Pacquiao fight pretty much has to happen now...I think Manny should submit to the Olympic-style testing, he's a wuss otherwise. But I think especially after watching that - Manny will get his ass handed to him if the fight happens, honestly.

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    Thought he had him in round two. Dammmmmmm.

    Dammit Jim!!!

    Dammmm that Mayweather is fast.

    Worth the $64, but Shane...

    Dammit Shane!

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    Well, my pick crashed and burned. Floyd was just too good. After Floyd responded the way he did in round 3, i had a feeling it was over at that point. I would have liked to have seen Floyd get Shane out of there. Shane looked very tired by round 6 and i think Mayweather could have jumped on him and got a stoppage had he been willing to press the issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sonrisa salvaje View Post
    Well, my pick crashed and burned. Floyd was just too good. After Floyd responded the way he did in round 3, i had a feeling it was over at that point. I would have liked to have seen Floyd get Shane out of there. Shane looked very tired by round 6 and i think Mayweather could have jumped on him and got a stoppage had he been willing to press the issue.
    Agree, and the fight pundits said as much...if Floyd had pressed Shane, he WOULD have knocked him the F out. If the Manny fight happens, Floyd should just go in head-hunting and SHOULD knock out Pacquiao...clearly he's got the ability.

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    At the risk of tooting my own horn, I called this DONINATION of a fight pretty damn close. Even I didn't think that Floyd would sit in the pcoket with SSM, however. It shows how great Floyd is - SSM is an outstanding fighter, and a beast at 147. On Saturday, he looked like all of Floyd's opponents look, utterly confused. Its the mental beating that Money's opponents never recover from - for 17 years Shane has been one of the best fighters in the world, and he probably couldn't have imagined someone being that much better.

    I dont think that Shane got old over night - he's just not used to fighting anyone a) faster than him and b) so damn elusive. I really didn't think that Floys would be looking for the KO, however, and my take on the fight was that he stepped off in the 11th and 12th because he respected SSM so much he didn't want to KO him. That's my take, anyway.

    Pacman doesn't stand a damn chance - he makes to many mistakes to beat Floyd, who I expect to KO him.

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    Another good fight coming up this weekend. Paul Williams vs. Kermit Cintron.
    I hate using mutual opponents to point to a likely winner because i do think styles make fights. However, Sergio Martinez being the measuring stick, i think it is pretty clear that Paul Williams should beat Cintron. I'm not sure it will be that easy but i'll take Williams in a UD.

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    I concur SS.

    Cintron has never fulfiled is potential - lots of power, but limited speed and footwork, not to mention defense. Plus, he's used to being the taller guy, and Williams dwarfs him. Williams leaky defense means that Cintron could KO him, but I think that Paul's speed and workrate equals a failry comprehensive UD

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    Well, what a non-event that was. Cintron fell through the ropes in the forth and inured himself. Williams wins by a technical decision.

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    What an absolute disappointment. I was really looking forward to that fight and to have it end like that....damn.
    It was just heating up too. Cintron was doing quite well, i thought. Looked like he was going to make a good showing that night. If he wanted to continue the fight, he damn sure didn't help his cause by just laying there in a prone position. He should have stood up and showed the doctor that he was capable of getting back in. When he didn't stand up immediately, i knew the fight was in the shitter. Seems like every year there is at least one fight that never gets off the ground due to some strange circumstance, usually a clash of heads. Oh well, there is always Kahn against Malinaggi this weekend.

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    Actually, it looked more like the doctor wouldn't LET Cintron get up! He was protesting, but the doc would NOT let him move, or continue. He was PISSED as they were wheeling him to the ambulance, did anyone else see him pounding on the gurney in frustration? The commentators even said he wanted to continue but was not allowed to...sucks!

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    I saw him hit the inside of the ambulance door as well, and i truly feel for Cintron. I am all for fighter safety but to me that seemed a bit overboard. Fighters have long been afforded the opportunity to get back in the ring after falling through the ropes. If a doctor is going to tell him not to get up, then they might as well install a new rule in California that says the fight is over when someone falls from the ring. The fall didn't look too bad - he fell a short distance to the table and it didn't look like he came down squarely on the monitor. He couldn't have been hurt much if he was protesting. My issue with Cintron is this - the doctor can make a recommendation that you don't get up but i don't think the doctor can order you to stay down. By cooperating with the doctor, Cintron enabled the fight to be stopped. If it was me, i would have jumped up regardless and they would have had to hold me down to prevent me from getting back in the ring, thus making it abundantly clear to the crowd and all watching on t.v. that i wanted to continue. Thus, no questions about my heart, desire, etc. Then if the crowd wanted to boo someone, they could have boo'd the doctor and the commission, and not me because i did everything i could do.

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    Interesting story developing in the Valero suicide. His family has had his body exhumed so that forensics can tell if he actually hung himself or if police choked him to death once he was in custody.

    Amir Khan vs. Paulie Malignaggi

    I think Kahn is too strong for Paulie and will put a lot of pressure on. Paulie is difficult to hit so i don't think Kahn can KO him. Paulie will be in 5th gear trying to get away. I like Kahn by UD.

    Victor Ortiz vs. Nate Campbell

    This is a very interesting fight. I look for the veteran Nate Campbell to try and make a statement after the dissapointing finish to the Timothy Bradley fight. Ortiz is young and has a ton of promise. It is hard to pick against Ortiz but i think Nate will outbox him on the way to a UD.

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    Ortiz-Campbell is a much more interesting fight. I expect Campbell to take Ortiz to the trenches and break him, perhaps via late TKO.

    Khan-Maligganggi is a tough one. Paulie has been selected for Khan's US debut because he'd feather-fisted and Khan has a glass jaw. Paulie blows hot and cold, and he'll have to be on his best form to be in this fight. He's certainly tough and awkward, but he's never faced anyone as fast and mobile as Khan, who I expect to thoroughly outwork him, unloading on Paulie all night. A UD for Khan, I think. For khan's developement, I hope that Paulie puts up a decent fight...

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    Well so much for my Nate Campbell pick. Poor Nate couldn't do a thing against Ortiz. He couldn't deal with his movement at all. Nate looked a bit aged but Ortiz fought the perfect fight as well. Kahn totally dominated Paulie. I didn't think he would win every round. Paulie didn't have an answer for Kahn's hand speed in a much different fight than i anticipated. Kahn basically came in and fought Paulie's type of fight and dominated him at his own game. With both fights being a whitewash, it really made for a boring evening.

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    Yeah, a pretty dull evening. Nate is old, palin and simple. I had underestimated Ortiz after he quit againsyt Maidana, but he look pretty solid on Satuday - no real power but a really good work-rate.

    Khan looked very solid - I was impressed by how controlled he was, nd how he stuck to the plan. After five rounds, I actually had it close. Khan took over after that - Paulie had no answers. Not too sure I agree with the stoppage, as Paulie wasn't hurt, but Khan is definately developing nicely.

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    I think Marquez vs. Vasquez IV is coming up this weekend. I just watched the first 3 fights again last night and they really were unbelievable. I think it is difficult to gauge a winner due to it has been over 2 years since they fought in March of 2008. Vasquez has only fought once since then - this past October. Marquez has only fought once since then as well, in May of last year. Both ko'd lesser opponents. There is really no way to measure how much they have aged nor how much the toll of the 3 fights has taken on them. I want to think that both will come in and pick up where they left off 2 years ago but we have seen fighters recently who have aged badly over the course of 6 months, much less 2 years. Hopefully, this will not be shades of Duran/Leonard III. I'm going to wait until Friday to make my pick because i want to see if i can make anything of the weigh in.

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    I think that those two guys have destroyed each other. Surely the fourth fight can't be as good as the first 3....

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    Raphael marquez stopped Vasquez in 3 - the cuts were decisive, and t seems that there is too mch scar tissue onVasquez's eyes for him to be effective anymore. Kudos to Mrquez, but Vasquez should retire now.

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