Part of MMA's success can undoubtedly be attributed to the reticence of the top guys to fight one anohter in boxing. That plus the absence of excitment in the heavyweight division.
Part of MMA's success can undoubtedly be attributed to the reticence of the top guys to fight one anohter in boxing. That plus the absence of excitment in the heavyweight division.
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It will never have the rich hiostory or scale of boxing though,you hit the nail on the head with the heavyweight division.Damn binnie you know your shit
could change if Haye beats Wlad though
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It could change, but Haye is planning on retiring by the end of the year anyway - maybe the lure of major $$$$ will keep him in.
Even - and it's a major even - if he beats Wlad, he'd then have to beat Vitali. I just don't see that happening. But even if - by some mathematical fluke - he managed to de-throne both of them, then who would he fight that's exciting? Eddie Chambers? Chris 'my weight is more interesting than my fights' Arreolla? There's just not the depth there.
Shit, these days they'd probably put him in with Evander Holyfield......
I'm curious to know who people's favourite fighters are - now or ever. Not the guys they think are P4P or GOAT, but the guys they loved to watch.
Mine:
Roberto Duran - do I need to explain that?
Kid Gavilan - fought like his life depending on it, but did it with brains.
Floyd Patterson - determined: no-one had to drag their asses off the canvas more, but he kept winning.
Larry Holmes - perfect jab, great footwork, never dull, and you'd bet the house on him winning.
Tony Zale - Ray Robinson aside, he was as good as anyone at 160.
Ezzard Charles - brains, brawn and skill. 175lbs never looked better.
Pernel Whitaker - hit me if you can, bitch.
These days, I'd say Miguel Cotto (fundamentally flawed but he'll fight Klitschko if you asked him), Juan Manuel Marquez (because he has immense skills but comes to fight), and Nonito Donaire (skills, skills, skillls) get my nod.
To name a few
Jack Johnson - Probably the most controversial and the first example of a superstar athlete,Great defence style.
Jack Dempsey - exceptional punching power,Pure aggression
Smokin' Joe Frazier - Great fighter,Nice guy always feel sorry for him over the ali stuff (at the time anyway)
Tommy "The Hitman" Hearns - 5 world titles in 5 different divisions.Owner of one of the most popular nick names in boxing and creator of the hitman stance
Marvelous Marvin Hagler - going to opponents' hometowns to get fights,and winning.Probably my favorite middle weight of all time
Iron Mike - Nuff' said
Last edited by Dave's Bitch; 05-23-2011 at 06:14 PM.
SunisinuS (05-23-2011)
Yeah, Mike has to be on the list - it just kills me watching the post prison fights though. He wasn't the same with the layoff and the lack of decent promotion/training.
Jack Johnson was exceptional - it is one of my ambitions to write a book on him. In those days - well, in any pre-War era - the world stopped during a big fight.
It is shocking to look back at the whole White Hope campaign when johnson won the belt.The outrage at a black heavyweight champion.Riot's after he beat james j jeffries and so on.They made a white heavyweight title,It is really harsh stuff.I recently read a great book on that era,When fighters would have a career of 300+ fights.Guy's like Fireman Jim Flynn who woud just keep going into there twilight years,then be forgotten and go on to drive cabs,Boxing was a really cruel mistress.Johnson was incredible though.There was guys like Sam Langford who were really top class fighters who would just take the segrigation,Johnson was brash and flashy.One thing i will say against Jack Dempsey,he drew the colour line when he won the title.make's you wonder how his career may have turnd out if he had notOriginally Posted by binnie
Today i am hard pressed to think of the last white heavyweight champion of any interest
Last edited by Dave's Bitch; 05-23-2011 at 06:29 PM.
Jack Johnson a controversial hero of mine, but still a hero nonetheless.
Sugar Ray. I know but I like that guy.
"History of the Heavyweight Championships"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlmG4...5B25705C1C9FDD
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Which one?
Both.
Leonard just came out with a biography btw. Talking about being abused by a coach. I think that guy is a fighter.
So i heard yes,says he was 15 i think.Must pick that up at some point (i got quite the collection of boxing books ya know
Well gee SunisinuS,We managed to kill the thread
Possible fight between Zab Judah and Amir Khan comming soon.I would like to see this,I fucking hate Khan.He is a puncher not a boxer.Sure he has fast hands but thats about it.
if it happens Zab takes it,not sure to guess KO or not yet,i will get back to you on that
Here are a few of mine that i always enjoyed watching:
Muhammed Ali
Roberto Duran
Tommy Hearns
Sugar Ray Leonard
Hector Macho Camacho
Aaron Pryor
Boom Boom Mancini
Salvador Sanchez
Little Red Lopez
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Where do you stand on the view that Salvador Sanchez is the greatest fighter Mexico ever produced?
Could have been if not for his premature death.I would have to say Julio Cesar Chavez or Oscar De La Hoya.I would even go so far as to put Erik Morales over him.
Last edited by Dave's Bitch; 05-25-2011 at 02:49 PM.
Oscar De La Hoya is American Mexican so scrap that from my list
sorry guys my bad
He was damn good but since his life was cut short, he never had the chance to go up and see how he stood at heavier weights. If my memory is correct, i think he only fought at one weight class unless he went up in weight to fight Little Red. At any rate, not enough of a body of work to get a good comparison. Frankly, i think trying to figure out the best Mexican boxer would be as impossible as determining the greatest American boxer.
Another figher i forgot to mention that i always enjoyed watching, even in defeat, was Gentleman Gerry Cooney. He either knocked you out or he got knocked out spectacularly.
I have always loved the colorful nicknames as well. A couple of my favorites are "Bonecrusher" Smith (or Boneclutcher) and Mike "The Body Snatcher" McCallum.
SunisinuS (05-27-2011)
Agree Zab takes that one. He's at least as fast as Khan, has better skills, and Khan's chin is made of candy glass from what I've seen...Well gee SunisinuS,We managed to kill the thread
Possible fight between Zab Judah and Amir Khan comming soon.I would like to see this,I fucking hate Khan.He is a puncher not a boxer.Sure he has fast hands but thats about it.
if it happens Zab takes it,not sure to guess KO or not yet,i will get back to you on that
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Khan certainly has a questionable chin, but he took some big shots from Maidanna so maybe 140 suits him better than 135. Zab is fast, has power, has an improving defence and a lot of experience. He goes to pieces under pressure though, and Amir would test that.
jhale667 (05-26-2011)
Very true, so it could be an interesting fight.
As for my faves, here's the short list:
Muhammad Ali, of course - my 1st, seriously childhood boxing hero. Not only did he have skills, he could take a punch (which unfortunately destroyed him by attrition). Best psychological gamester ever probably.
Sugar Ray Leonard - fast, gutsy, and seeming an all-around cool guy. Also throw on the list a lot of the guys he fought - Floyd Mayweather Sr., Marvin Hagler and Tommy Hearns. Roger Mayweather gets an honorable mention from his fighting years, and for being the only one on the list I've met - and he was fucking hilarious to hang with that day. Funny aside -Two things I'll never forget about doing a tech gig one night at the Stone Pony in New Jersey: Talking boxing all day before the gig with him, and a hot girl asking if I'd do her while her husband watched - after :eek: ...had to decline,but will never forget it!
Mike Tyson, up until the rapist-ear-biting segment of his career. I mean, has anybody before or since him had that near-deadly combination of speed and power (and a trainer like Cus D'Amato [sp])? His "Greatest Hits" reel is a boxing's best knockouts reel in its own right. Simultaneously amazing and frightening in his prime. Seems to have rehabilitated himself finally, and was fucking funny in "The Hangover".
Roy Jones Jr. - another of the all-time greats as far as speed and power that hid for over a decade the fact that he had a questionable chin. As in you can't question it if no one was able to touch him until the Tarver and (Glenn) Jones fights. Also one of the most unique styles ever, now imitated palely by younger fighters like Pascal. Throw in Felix Trinidad and Oscar De La Hoya on the list too.
Floyd Mayweather Jr. probably the best boxer of this generation IMO. Not the most powerful puncher, but another one of those brilliant counter-punchers that is 90% of the time countering missed punches. Pretty sure the Mosley fight was the first time I ever saw him get wobbled, and he recovered and proceeded to make Mosely look stupid. I seriously think he could make Manny look like an idiot too, but wondering if the world will ever find out...and speaking of Manny, he's indeed a phenom, but if he's juicing, he doesn't deserve to be on my list.
There's probably more, but those are the ones that immediately spring to mind...
Last edited by jhale667; 05-26-2011 at 10:30 PM.
binnie (05-27-2011)
Oscar De La Hoya. Was at a comedy place down town...and I recognized him immediately. As the first guy came on the set....he said...I want you all to say Hello to Oscar De La Hoya...in the audience. He stood up and took a bow as the people that payed attention clapped. Was a very nice evening....he was with a nice woman and no one gave him shit. It was two days before a fight. He just hears his last name as "Hell Ya".Oscar De La Hoya is American Mexican so scrap that from my list
sorry guys my bad
Last edited by SunisinuS; 05-27-2011 at 10:41 PM. Reason: LA baby. And fer sure....Lew Alcindor will get a statue.
When was this?,was he not said to be in rehab?
SunisinuS (05-29-2011)
HagMaybe it was Hagler. It all get's foggy sometimes....
Last edited by SunisinuS; 05-28-2011 at 07:52 AM. Reason: Haggling?
As far as the heavyweight division in MMA, it's kinda being recycled now..Fedor is fading, and the top eschelon of HW's can be counted on one hand....there is one interesting match-up tonight, however...Frank Mir vs TUF winner Roy "big country' Nelson. Nelson looks like a lard-ass nobody, but he has a fast overhand right that crushes people...he's the guy who layed on Kimbo Slice-Kimbo had no ground game at all. He couldn't save himself. Mir got smashed by Shane Carwin, but has outstanding Jiu-Jitsu skills. The light-heavyweight division is really where it's at IMO.
But back to boxing..
Sweetpea! I thought he was great! I remember the Buddy McGirt fight. Epic! Unfortunately, it was the last time I saw him fight.
Aaron Pryor.
Foreman.
I loved the battles between Bowe and Holyfield. The fights were great! But Bowe lost my respect when he refused to fight Lennox Lewis. Lewis would be on my all time list. Ahead of Tyson.
Ray Mercer. I always thought he had a great shot at beating Tyson should they have ever fought.
Roy Jones. Period.
Ali-Frazier. I watched those fights on TV as a kid. I never understood the significance of them...until I grew up.
The one thing I feel robbed of, is the matchup between Tyson and Holyfield when Tyson was still "Iron Mike". I never believed that Holyfield couldn't make it to the heavyweight division until after Tyson got beat down by Douglas. Then, 8 or nine monts later, Evander shows up to kick Buster's ass. Then Tyson gets locked up. Then Riddick Bowe shows up, takes it from Holyfield, refuses to fight Lewis, and I lost interest...But I kept watching Lennox Lewis..
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Ladies first.Get out
I completely forgot about Lewis,Thanks hideyoursheep.Lewis was VERY good.Three time champ.44 fights,41 wins,2losses and one no contest.The last undisputed heavywieght champion
by the way,Who is that in your avatar?
Last edited by Dave's Bitch; 05-29-2011 at 06:18 AM.
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I knew it was Bronson
I wouldn't consider him a boxer.. A fighter, definitely....but not a boxer. You have to see the movie....Incredible story. Simultaneously sad, humorous, violent and tragic his life. The man has spent 37 years in prison, over 30 in solitary confinement, all for fighting. Never killed anyone. NONE of this could have happened in the US prison system, so in that regard he is lucky to be alive. But his entire life has been wasted making a name for himself, as he puts it. That part is tragic.
He missed his calling.
i have read his books
Lennox may not have been fan friendly all of the time, but he is the greatest heavy since Holmes. Perhaps Tyson could have been GOAT, but we'll never know.
As for Holyfield-Tyson prime-for-prime, my money would have been on Tyson. He was much quicker, sharper and had a bgetter defence than when Holyfield finally got him. On the issue of Bowe-Lewis, Bowe would have been outclassed.
This Saturday: Carl Froch vs Glen Johnson (to see who joins Andre Ward in the Super Six final.)
This really is a difficult one - Glen has never been an easy night's work, but Froch has grit and awkwardness on his side. Could be fight of the year?
Heal yeah. I have been looking forward to this fight and it looks to be a pocket war! Also, Chavez Jr. goes after a world title this weekend. I don't know much about the champion but it should be interesting.
Yeah, this should be an interesting one...Froch is NOT getting Johnson out of there easily...
Can't believe this fight is happening this weekend as well.
At Albuquerque, N.M.: Johnny Tapia vs. Frankie Archuleta, third fight, 10 rounds, lightweights
Johnny boy was hell when he was well. I used to enjoy watching him fight before he went insane.
I would like to say Froch for the win.Not sure how to call it yet as i like both fighters
I agree with you. As great as Johnson is, i can't see him knocking Froch out or outworking him. I keep trying to find scenerios in my mind of how Johnson exactly would get a win and i just can't see it. As Teddy Atlas would say, it is all up to Froch.
Don't get me wrong, it is not going to be an easy fight for Froch. When it is over he is going to know he faced one tough dude but in the end i like him in a UD.
If Froch uses his jab and keeps the distance, he'll win. If he can't do that, and let's Johnson get close, he'll get mauled all over the ring.
Never underestimate Johnson's cleverness. However, I do think that Froch has the tools to win a UD.
Just heard Froch spent some time in hospital,Anyone?
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