dorian modes on the guitar like vanhalen

[Steppenwolf]

The truth is there is rally not much you can do with a rock guitar allighnment in the art of music.Stay at A and E and youse your own intellect as to C#7s and Fo7s working up to octaves over majar pentatonic scales

[BrownSound1]

I say just forget all that shit and play. I'll guarantee you most of the greats didn't know modes from assholes, including EVH.

[ELVIS]

I had the modes removed from my guitars...

[cdwillis]

What is allighnment?

[Nitro Express]

All I know is Every Good Boy Does Fine and FACE. EADGBE with A somewhere in the ballpark of 440 and rest tuned to that. Any note will work as long as it doesn't sound like shit. If I were real good, I wouldn't be here, I would be getting a blowjob by four expensive call girls on top of the Belagio in Vegas.

[ELVIS]

That wouldn't help your chops too much, but it could be a confidence booster..

[doctor roth]

Even if 'the greats' dont know it, they are still playing within modes, scales and within known musical theory. I say learn all the scales and shit you can. But enough of what I think listen to someone who really knows.......................

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LWHKeC4IEgA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BoGQ9yHOyZQ

[BrownSound1]

Sure they're playing in those modes, but you know what it is called developing your EARS. You should be able to hear what fits. When I said in my original post to "forget that shit and just play," I was being truthful. Jazz players have been saying that for years... I didn't invent that phrase.

There's nothing wrong with knowing the theory, and all of the technical stuff. However, I've seen a lot of guys take that too far. They end up being boring as hell because they don't play like they are flying by the seat of their pants, so to speak. That's a big no no in rock and roll.

[UKPete]

Listen to one of Eddies divebombs.

Does it sound good?

Of course it does, but it goes through every tone, semi-tone, quarter tone etc. till it drops a whole octave!

Are all those tones in a mode? Nope.

Does it sound great? You betcha!

If it sounds good it's right.

[DLRdelight!]

thats what i was thinking. ed didnt know none of that stuff. he just went with what fucking sounded right. like pete said. have you heard those divebombs!

[cdwillis]

A divebomb isn't exactly very musical; its more of a sound effect as far as I'm concerned. Of course, if it sounds good it is good.

I'd like to point out again that Steppenwolf's post doesn't make any fucking sense.

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by BrownSound1
Sure they're playing in those modes, but you know what it is called developing your EARS. You should be able to hear what fits. When I said in my original post to "forget that shit and just play," I was being truthful. Jazz players have been saying that for years... I didn't invent that phrase.

There's nothing wrong with knowing the theory, and all of the technical stuff. However, I've seen a lot of guys take that too far. They end up being boring as hell because they don't play like they are flying by the seat of their pants, so to speak. That's a big no no in rock and roll.

Couldn't agree more.

I remember reading in a Van Halen music book about the genius of EVH's knowledge of scales in how he had switched between various modes and scales in a run.

Thing is what he had done was do a 1,2,4 pattern up 4 or 5 strings. In rock it's all mainly BS IMHO, although that's maybe just because I'm lazy.

That said there are a couple of theory things I've found to be cool like mixolydian modes or harmonic minor scales.

Generally though people that learn all that stuff to me end up often sounding like a poor mans Malmsteen. It seems to get in the way of song writing and melody. To learn all that stuff and then to know how and when to break the rules seems a step too far for most people.

It's maybe better to just not know the rules and concentrate on what sounds good IMHO.

That said I'm a mediocre guitarist but at least I might occasionally play something interesting because it's better to be a mediocre guitarist trying to come up with something that sounds cool than a mediocre guitariist that never will because they are constrained by theory.

I have no idea the name of half the chords I play...

Cheers!

[Matt White]

Boxes

Though...I prefer to wrestle

[Redballjets88]

i know a lot of guitarists don't use modes, and tons of thoery, but Ed probably does to an extent, he can definatly read music and he probably has a good knowledge of theory, all from being able to play piano.

[jhale667]

I'm reminded of a Billy Sheehan quote "You have to learn the rules before you can forget them"...

A mode is generated by playing a specific scale starting on a note OTHER than the '1' in the scale formula...(for the uninitiated) Dorian is arrived at by starting on the '2'.

I took formal lessons for a couple of years as a kid, and have tons of transcriptions and theory crap laying about...
I've corrected tab for an instructional video company, I guess I should know all of that forwards and backwards - I guess to an extent I do -
but when I'm improvising, I could not tell you what mode I'm playing in....
I mean, I know what key I'm in, but besides that?
That's the thing I always dug about EVH and similar players, the reckless abandon aspect of their playing... I don't ever want to be so concerned with theoretical correctness that I forget how to fly by the seat of my pants....

[Eyes of the Night]

D is cool right now with the leads or boxes i've created while making my own shit up ...

Cool read yo, I can look but couldn't say what I'm playing when leading half the time ... I couldn't say because I'm dumb but could show you by playing it ...

[jhale667]

Here ya go, kids....Modes de-mystified...

[Eddie's Booze]

Originally posted by jhale667
Here ya go, kids....Modes de-mystified...

good work!!!

[bluedog]

Originally posted by jhale667
I'm reminded of a Billy Sheehan quote "You have to learn the rules before you can forget them"...

A mode is generated by playing a specific scale starting on a note OTHER than the '1' in the scale formula...(for the uninitiated) Dorian is arrived at by starting on the '2'.

I took formal lessons for a couple of years as a kid, and have tons of transcriptions and theory crap laying about...
I've corrected tab for an instructional video company, I guess I should know all of that forwards and backwards - I guess to an extent I do -
but when I'm improvising, I could not tell you what mode I'm playing in....
I mean, I know what key I'm in, but besides that?
That's the thing I always dug about EVH and similar players, the reckless abandon aspect of their playing... I don't ever want to be so concerned with theoretical correctness that I forget how to fly by the seat of my pants....

I like Sheehan’s quote and I like your approach to the application of theory. I too am formally trained. When I solo, I do know which scale degrees, shapes, modes, etc that I’m playing. I’m not the type of player to just vamp on top of an I-IV- V progression with a pentatonic scale 100% of the time. I am constantly chasing chords. I strive to be an interesting player – one that can build tension in a solo – that’s the most important thing to me. Sometimes that comes from “breaking the rules” or playing something that steps outside of box. Page stepped out of the Am pentatonic on Stairway by adding the F and Slash stepped out on Sweet Child with his interesting use of the 7’s – and Ed stepped out all of the time! Those guys can “play by the seat of their pants” but you can be damn sure they know what the hell they’re doing. Their interesting approaches and applications are not coincidence. Now, I wouldn’t dare put myself in the same league as those guys, but I definitely believe my foundation in theory help ME to accomplish interesting phrasing. But just because it works for some, doesn’t mean that it will work for everybody. That’s the beauty of creativity! With guitar, you can learn as much theory OR as little as you choose. Some will argue that technique is the most essential tool a rock guitar player can possess. But I believe the most important thing is that you’re playing – you’re creating- you’re exploring – and doing something that pleases YOU! If others like it, then that’s a bonus.

[Eddie's Booze]

Originally posted by bluedog
I like Sheehan’s quote and I like your approach to the application of theory. I too am formally trained. When I solo, I do know which scale degrees, shapes, modes, etc that I’m playing. I’m not the type of player to just vamp on top of an I-IV- V progression with a pentatonic scale 100% of the time. I am constantly chasing chords. I strive to be an interesting player – one that can build tension in a solo – that’s the most important thing to me. Sometimes that comes from “breaking the rules” or playing something that steps outside of box. Page stepped out of the Am pentatonic on Stairway by adding the F and Slash stepped out on Sweet Child with his interesting use of the 7’s – and Ed stepped out all of the time! Those guys can “play by the seat of their pants” but you can be damn sure they know what the hell they’re doing. Their interesting approaches and applications are not coincidence. Now, I wouldn’t dare put myself in the same league as those guys, but I definitely believe my foundation in theory help ME to accomplish interesting phrasing. But just because it works for some, doesn’t mean that it will work for everybody. That’s the beauty of creativity! With guitar, you can learn as much theory OR as little as you choose. Some will argue that technique is the most essential tool a rock guitar player can possess. But I believe the most important thing is that you’re playing – you’re creating- you’re exploring – and doing something that pleases YOU! If others like it, then that’s a bonus.

Great Post. Made Perfect Sense

[ODShowtime]

Originally posted by cdwillis
A divebomb isn't exactly very musical; its more of a sound effect as far as I'm concerned. Of course, if it sounds good it is good.

It was musical when ed played them. When I do it, it's a sound effect.

[jhale667]

Originally posted by ODShowtime
It was musical when ed played them. When I do it, it's a sound effect.

If the target you're bombing is a specific note and you hit it, it IS musical. Octave drops are cool...

Hey, it's a musical sound effect !!!

Having said that, I like making dinosaur noises as much as the next guy, if not more...