man-oh-man, the rumblings and rumors I'm hearing...

[RogueHorseman]

Apparently, the finger pointing has already begun...

I have no first-hand access to the brothers, nor Dave or Sam, but have maintained close friendships in the radio and records community for over three decades due to my career there as a radio programmer for 17 years. I've worked more in the sports end of marketing/entertainment for the past dozen years... take this for whatever you consider it worth, I could care less, but speak the truth.

Also, I'm not here to start a piss-war with any hard-core Hargar fans. I must also openly admit to vastly preferring the Dave-era material, hands down, so Hargar fans will call me biased.... Whatever, I say. Business is business guys, no matter personal preference and this tour is apparently already being viewed as a failure in the making from within the various camps involved. At the top of the list is WB, from what I'm told. They have wanted Dave all along, all these years, anyway. Not out of any style preference, but because they only care about making the most money and have the research to show where the higher prencentage of fans will spend it.

For instance, there IS a real reason why the playlists of (cookie-cutter) rock stations in market after market play almost exclusively Roth era Halen tracks... RESEARCH clearly shows these as the songs the masses want and expect to hear along side their Stones, Floyd and Led Zep. The only solo songs that test especially well from Sammy are "One Way To Rock, "Can't Drive 55" and from his VH work "Why Can't...", "Finish What Ya Started" (Dave'ish by design, IMO) and amazingly enough, "Right Now". Virtually, the entire first six albums worth of material tests well in comparison, ala say, the enitre Zeppelin or SRV or Hendrix catalogs... Tunes like "Jump", "Unchained", and "Panama" test in the range of "Satisfaction" and "Stairway To Heaven". Dave told the truth when he said they were as known to the public as the Nike swoosh, he really was.

Anyway, I'm getting off topic... Besides the rumors of in-fighting already starting over the lackluster ticket sales, I'm hearing that the (mis)use of Dave era songs on the spots has NOT gone unnoticed by both some with a vested interest as well as a local fan group headed up by a wealthy attorney... He is said to be considering a class action suit filing to include each city, if not winnable, but to draw attention to the sham... I don't know about that one, but this is all so interesting and seems to have brought the Dave devotees together with a unified battlecry about as much as anything.

I'll be watching.

[DavidLeeNatra]

well...even if it's not true...funny thought...and rather possible...

[Big Troubles]

Interesting post. But you are right about one thing. Poor tix sales draw a similar line towards the band NOT performing Dave-era tunes. No doubt about it. But if Van Hagar were to do Dave-era tunes, the backlash from that would be great as well. IMO. Dave sings Dave songs obviously, the best. I wouldn't want to hear Dave belt out "Why cant this be Love" anyways...Thats fucked up. picture Dave singing "Right Now"? Yuck I know. So the band had 2 options. Go with a full set list from 78- to present or just do Hagar era. I think (even though I hate Sam) they chose the right way to do it. I dont want to hear "I got my ass against the record machine..." anyways...

[DLR_EngineRoom]

Originally posted by RogueHorseman
Apparently, the finger pointing has already begun...

I have no first-hand access to the brothers, nor Dave or Sam, but have maintained close friendships in the radio and records community for over three decades due to my career there as a radio programmer for 17 years. I've worked more in the sports end of marketing/entertainment for the past dozen years... take this for whatever you consider it worth, I could care less, but speak the truth.

Also, I'm not here to start a piss-war with any hard-core Hargar fans. I must also openly admit to vastly preferring the Dave-era material, hands down, so Hargar fans will call me biased.... Whatever, I say. Business is business guys, no matter personal preference and this tour is apparently already being viewed as a failure in the making from within the various camps involved. At the top of the list is WB, from what I'm told. They have wanted Dave all along, all these years, anyway. Not out of any style preference, but because they only care about making the most money and have the research to show where the higher prencentage of fans will spend it.

For instance, there IS a real reason why the playlists of (cookie-cutter) rock stations in market after market play almost exclusively Roth era Halen tracks... RESEARCH clearly shows these as the songs the masses want and expect to hear along side their Stones, Floyd and Led Zep. The only solo songs that test especially well from Sammy are "One Way To Rock, "Can't Drive 55" and from his VH work "Why Can't...", "Finish What Ya Started" (Dave'ish by design, IMO) and amazingly enough, "Right Now". Virtually, the entire first six albums worth of material tests well in comparison, ala say, the enitre Zeppelin or SRV or Hendrix catalogs... Tunes like "Jump", "Unchained", and "Panama" test in the range of "Satisfaction" and "Stairway To Heaven". Dave told the truth when he said they were as known to the public as the Nike swoosh, he really was.

Anyway, I'm getting off topic... Besides the rumors of in-fighting already starting over the lackluster ticket sales, I'm hearing that the (mis)use of Dave era songs on the spots has NOT gone unnoticed by both some with a vested interest as well as a local fan group headed up by a wealthy attorney... He is said to be considering a class action suit filing to include each city, if not winnable, but to draw attention to the sham... I don't know about that one, but this is all so interesting and seems to have brought the Dave devotees together with a unified battlecry about as much as anything.

I'll be watching.

Suspicions confirmed, 'nuff said.

Truth hurts Hagarita fans, oh well....

EAT THAT & SMILE!

[5150Clown]

Well...I just hope if Dave takes any legal action, it won't hurt the possibilities of a runion one day or for the hall of fame thing.

[RogueHorseman]

Originally posted by 5150Clown
Well...I just hope if Dave takes any legal action, it won't hurt the possibilities of a runion one day or for the hall of fame thing.

If they keep Sam at the helm, I'm not so sure they'll be getting that spot in the hall so soon, myself. I would not bet on it.

Geez... Eddie is such an idiot when it comes to playing politics, over and over again. Not to mention giving the fans the finger time after time after time as well.

I don't think Dave is suing, but he is no doubt very mindful of having ascap numbers and royalties, etc. watched very closely after the band re-upped and ripped him off on that end a few years ago.

The in-fighting was apparently sparked by WB execs who fingered Eddie as a f*uck up, again. Who knows, they could be stirring the pot on purpose. As mentioned, they have wanted Dave back in for the better part of a decade now... and, curiously they seem to be in no hurry whatsoever to issue this second best of CD to run alongside this tour. I think it is obvious WB have no faith in the curent version of VH drawing big numbers, not on tour nor to the Best Buy shelves...

And, who could blame them after the way Eddie screwed the pooch the first time around. They lost millions upon millions, to put it flatly.

The lawsuit rumor goes that its a class action suit headed by an Atlanta attorney who is a big mark for Dave and was insulted by the use of Roth tracks to promote a tour that does not feature him at all. It was told to me in a joking style, as if it was not a winable case, but the attorney didn't care and was looking to create problems and expose the band publically and get some free press for himself... who knows, I'd put no stock in it but it would be a riot if true.

To me, Ed and Al, and Mike and Sam too, really are misleading cons to allow those spots with Dave singing all over them to air. We all know Clear Channel as the worst of bottom feeders, and they probably did initiate the con, but Ed and the others could have/still can demand it be stopped.

I ain't gonna be holding my breath, however...

[Terry]

Can't really comment on the lack of ticket sales, as am not bothering to track how many have been sold at any one venue. Never thought the Van Hagar reunion tour would stiff in terms of attendance, as there are a lot of people who want to hear Eddie play, regardless of the context.

Warner Brothers is a business. Van Halen is a commodity. As soon as Ed began putting out records on a major label, he became as much product as he did a musician, and he's just not up to giving creedence to what we all know: classic Van Halen is the best choice for a Van Halen lineup from just a business point of view, musical tastes aside.

Have heard plenty of these Van Hagar radio ads for the upcoming shows that have nothing but classic Van Halen in the background as well, and it is misleading. Sure, anyone who's been following the band knows who the lead singer this time around is, but Halen has never been beyond using the image and memory of the classic version in an attempt to give legitimacy to non-Roth lineups.

Roth shouldn't bother with another lawsuit, though. Best just to let the commentary of the classic songs being used for the Van Hagar radio spots speak for itself.

[Snoo]

From what is being said, Dave wouldn't be suing, an attorney would.

[Panamark]

"RogueHorseman" (this time)

Always enjoy your journalism..

[jesuskrice]

Originally posted by 5150Clown
Well...I just hope if Dave takes any legal action, it won't hurt the possibilities of a runion one day or for the hall of fame thing.

This whole thing with Spammy Gaydar has been a nightmare sinced he joined.........DLR desreves R&R Hall of Fame status.......as does pre 85 VH........ I wish Eddie could have seen the DLR House oF Blues Show last Summer then he would realize just how good those tunes really are.......But I am sure his ego keeps him at home............

[Keeyth]

Originally posted by jesuskrice
This whole thing with Spammy Gaydar has been a nightmare sinced he joined.........DLR desreves R&R Hall of Fame status.......as does pre 85 VH........ I wish Eddie could have seen the DLR House oF Blues Show last Summer then he would realize just how good those tunes really are.......But I am sure his ego keeps him at home............

Do you know of anywhere those of us who missed the DLR House of Blues Show last summer might be able to view some of the footage? Any video of that out there on the internet?? I really would have loved to have seen that myself, and if it's out there, Please let me know where!

[cwsmith17]

Originally posted by RogueHorseman
Apparently, the finger pointing has already begun...

I have no first-hand access to the brothers, nor Dave or Sam, but have maintained close friendships in the radio and records community for over three decades due to my career there as a radio programmer for 17 years. I've worked more in the sports end of marketing/entertainment for the past dozen years... take this for whatever you consider it worth, I could care less, but speak the truth.

Also, I'm not here to start a piss-war with any hard-core Hargar fans. I must also openly admit to vastly preferring the Dave-era material, hands down, so Hargar fans will call me biased.... Whatever, I say. Business is business guys, no matter personal preference and this tour is apparently already being viewed as a failure in the making from within the various camps involved. At the top of the list is WB, from what I'm told. They have wanted Dave all along, all these years, anyway. Not out of any style preference, but because they only care about making the most money and have the research to show where the higher prencentage of fans will spend it.

For instance, there IS a real reason why the playlists of (cookie-cutter) rock stations in market after market play almost exclusively Roth era Halen tracks... RESEARCH clearly shows these as the songs the masses want and expect to hear along side their Stones, Floyd and Led Zep. The only solo songs that test especially well from Sammy are "One Way To Rock, "Can't Drive 55" and from his VH work "Why Can't...", "Finish What Ya Started" (Dave'ish by design, IMO) and amazingly enough, "Right Now". Virtually, the entire first six albums worth of material tests well in comparison, ala say, the enitre Zeppelin or SRV or Hendrix catalogs... Tunes like "Jump", "Unchained", and "Panama" test in the range of "Satisfaction" and "Stairway To Heaven". Dave told the truth when he said they were as known to the public as the Nike swoosh, he really was.

Anyway, I'm getting off topic... Besides the rumors of in-fighting already starting over the lackluster ticket sales, I'm hearing that the (mis)use of Dave era songs on the spots has NOT gone unnoticed by both some with a vested interest as well as a local fan group headed up by a wealthy attorney... He is said to be considering a class action suit filing to include each city, if not winnable, but to draw attention to the sham... I don't know about that one, but this is all so interesting and seems to have brought the Dave devotees together with a unified battlecry about as much as anything.

I'll be watching.

Very intelligent bullshit.

[RogueHorseman]

.

[RogueHorseman]

Originally posted by cwsmith17
Very intelligent bullshit.

You should watch your step there, my very young and inexperienced friend.

Here, wipe that off before it dries and you look like an even bigger fool.

I lived it, little prick... MC'd it to the SRO crowds... Had your mom at will, at the snap of my fingers she came a runnin'

[Big Troubles]

Originally posted by cwsmith17
Very intelligent bullshit.

Like a fly, showing up first at the scene of a shit dropping. Go away fly.

[redblkwht]

next post please. double your fun..oops

[redblkwht]

someone sticky this thread, everyone should read..
nice insite btw

[NathanRay]

Dropin' some sheer Awesome insights, Rougehorseman. Van Halen 3 bombed so they played a bunch of classic vh for that tour and Payed Dave his royalties. How were ticket sales on that tour? Who sponsered it? Did it Fail? Who's sponsering this tour??

[thefive]

Of course Warner Brothers wants Dave at the Helm.

[Seshmeister]

Originally posted by NathanRay
Dropin' some sheer Awesome insights, Rougehorseman. Van Halen 3 bombed so they played a bunch of classic vh for that tour and Payed Dave his royalties.

They wouldn't have had to pay royalties to Dave for playing live just like he doesn't have to pay them.

[ThrillsNSpills]

It's obvious to everyone except the band that Dave is the one.

What could these guys expect after all the crap over the years?

Poor ticket sales is from disregarding the obvious and if the music is for the people like they say then the way to hook the most is with Dave.

[redblkwht]

Thats why another BOV is coming out..
it is the only way to spark interest &
warner doesnt like the tunes they got now.
the next cd with shambo will crash & burn.

[lztom]

I think they're getting desperate on this. The latest word is July 20th (!) for the new record and get this...a double cd including several, if not all BOV 1 tracks plus three new Spam tracks and (believe it or not) three Spam era live tracks. No plans for anything before the tour starts in terms of either music or publicity. I think we can all agree, above and beyond the despicable choice of lead singer, that strategy is so fucked up as to be laughable and an indication that this whole project was launched without any foresight and is now a sinking ship.

[Jano]

Originally posted by cwsmith17
Very intelligent bullshit.

IN YOUR FACE SPAMMY !!

[Bill Lumbergh]

If they actually include tracks from BOV1, they're even more out of touch than I thought(and that's quite a feat) Can we say UNINSPIRED?! This is getting better by the day people.

[ZahZoo]

Well there is one shred of truth to this... The alleged lawsuit is a no winner indeed. You can't sue anyone for misrepresentation when 75% of the classic Van Halen lineup is being represented in the advertising.

As much as Dave is the tops when it comes VH singers... Ed, Al and Michael can't be discounted... It ain't all about the singer...

[Warham]

Ed can be discounted because he's always drunk.

Al can be discounted because of the neckbrace.

Mike can be discounted because he's always been discounted.

[Terry]

Originally posted by ZahZoo
Well there is one shred of truth to this... The alleged lawsuit is a no winner indeed. You can't sue anyone for misrepresentation when 75% of the classic Van Halen lineup is being represented in the advertising.

As much as Dave is the tops when it comes VH singers... Ed, Al and Michael can't be discounted... It ain't all about the singer...

If the lawsuit is winnable is irrelevant.

If Sammy, the sisters and MA have no plans to play the classic material, then it shouldn't be used in radio spots for the shows.

And 75% of the classic lineup doesn't constitute Van Halen. All or nothing.

[fenway5150]

Originally posted by thefive
Of course Warner Brothers wants Dave at the Helm.

Which is most likely why Dave isn't losing any sleep about this whole tour.

[RogueHorseman]

Originally posted by Terry
If the lawsuit is winnable is irrelevant.

If Sammy, the sisters and MA have no plans to play the classic material, then it shouldn't be used in radio spots for the shows.

And 75% of the classic lineup doesn't constitute Van Halen. All or nothing.

I'd go one further and say that even if they DO plan to play the material that it should be represented truthfully on the spots -- exactly as it will be at the show -- with Sammy's vocals.

Yeah, like CC wants Sammy's crapper-sounding COVER version of, say, Jump pushing ticket sales...

What a total con the whole thing is when you get right down to it...

[DLR_EngineRoom]

Originally posted by ZahZoo
You can't sue anyone for misrepresentation when 75% of the classic Van Halen lineup is being represented in the advertising.
It ain't all about the singer...

No, that's not the point. Thankfully, Hagar confirmed that he won't be playing ANY Roth-era stuff on this tour. The ads are therefore misleading and imply that those songs will be heard.

[ZahZoo]

Here's a alleged setlist for the tour...

1) Poundcake
2) Dreams
3) Panama
4) Don't Tell Me (What Love Can Do)
5) It's About Time
6) Love Walks In
7) I Can't Drive (65)
8) Ain't Talkin' Bout Love
9) Best of Both Worlds
10) Runaround
11) Eagles Fly / Sammy's Tequila Thing (Acoustic)
12) Eddie's Acoustic Bit (Spanish Fly, etc...)
13) Finish What Ya Started (Acoustic)
14) Ice Cream Man
15) Eddie's Guitar Solo
16) Amsterdam
17) Bad Motor Scooter
18) Humans Being
19) Runnin' With The Devil (Mikey Sings)
20) Up For Breakfast
21) 5150
22) Fire in the Hole (Mikey Sings)
23) Beautiful Girls (Mikey Sings)
24) Summer Nights
25) When It's Love

First Encore:

26) Right Now
27) Hot For Teacher (Mikey Sings)

Second Encore:

28) Jump
29) Top of the World
30) Why Can't This Be Love?

[DavidLeeNatra]

ha ha ha...!!!

[dave_is_vh]

Originally posted by ZahZoo
Well there is one shred of truth to this... The alleged lawsuit is a no winner indeed. You can't sue anyone for misrepresentation when 75% of the classic Van Halen lineup is being represented in the advertising.

As much as Dave is the tops when it comes VH singers... Ed, Al and Michael can't be discounted... It ain't all about the singer...

You're right it isn't all about the singer. It is about the singer and his incredible stage persona. Dave is 100% of Van Halen. Ed, Al, and Mike are 75% of nothing.

[RogueHorseman]

Originally posted by ZahZoo
Here's a alleged setlist for the tour...

1) Poundcake
2) Dreams
3) Panama
4) Don't Tell Me (What Love Can Do)
5) It's About Time
6) Love Walks In
7) I Can't Drive (65)
8) Ain't Talkin' Bout Love
9) Best of Both Worlds
10) Runaround
11) Eagles Fly / Sammy's Tequila Thing (Acoustic)
12) Eddie's Acoustic Bit (Spanish Fly, etc...)
13) Finish What Ya Started (Acoustic)
14) Ice Cream Man
15) Eddie's Guitar Solo
16) Amsterdam
17) Bad Motor Scooter
18) Humans Being
19) Runnin' With The Devil (Mikey Sings)
20) Up For Breakfast
21) 5150
22) Fire in the Hole (Mikey Sings)
23) Beautiful Girls (Mikey Sings)
24) Summer Nights
25) When It's Love

First Encore:

26) Right Now
27) Hot For Teacher (Mikey Sings)

Second Encore:

28) Jump
29) Top of the World
30) Why Can't This Be Love?

That's a mighty damn long set list for a reputed 35-45 minute show...

It would also be a mighty damn long set list for a 90 minute show.

Which hargarita came up with this?

[freak]

Originally posted by ZahZoo
As much as Dave is the tops when it comes VH singers... Ed, Al and Michael can't be discounted... It ain't all about the singer...

Only two people in that band were what one could call extraordinary.

Eddie, for his guitar and Dave for his abilities as a frontman.

The parts of Alex and Michael could have been played by anyone else.

Who's more responsible for the band's success?

Just take a good hard look at what happened after Dave was gone.

They became mediocre.

Ten years later, the mere hint of a reunion with Dave at a music awards show, prompted a standing ovation.

They fucked that up royally by hiring another singer.

After that, they became horrible enough to have been dropped by their record label.

Which brings us to today.

Now, we see a band trying to get one last payday by milking what little is left of their fame. Radio stations all over the country promote this disaster by playing the songs that got them famous. Incidentally, these are the very songs they will not be performing because they were done by David Lee Roth and Sammy just can't pull them off without sounding ridiculous.

[POJO_Risin]

Like the read...

and damn...I would love it if they put out a double disc (ie: to much money for shit), or even better...a double disc...with the first disc...

nobody will buy that shit...

[NathanRay]

Originally posted by Seshmeister
They wouldn't have had to pay royalties to Dave for playing live just like he doesn't have to pay them.

Performance Royalties
refer to the money that must be given to the copyright holder(s) every time the composition is "performed". Every radio station, club, restaraunt, and retail store (that plays music) is liable to pay the copyright holder every time they play the composition. Since you can't be there all the time checking up on these people, companies like BMI ASCAP GEMA etc were created by artists (back in the day) to administer these copyrights.

Dave better get paid royalties if any body else performs any classic vh tunes on tour. He was a co-author of all those tunes including Spanish Fly. That's Why Sammy gets mad when they perform them live and he screws up the song....

Can't you See me Standin' here I got my ass 'gainst the Glass of a HotDog Machine...I think you know what I mean..Wanna Feel What I mean?????
or
I heard tha' news Stanley about your HIV. Yeah you may be quarenteened, but you got something I need
Ain't talkin 'bout Food!!! I just hit up the buffet
Ain't talkin 'bout Food!!! I thought you knew I was Gay??

Yeah Can't Say I recommend Live right here right Now.

[ELVIS]

Hmmm...

Thanks Rogue...

Nice

[ELVIS]

I can't believe you took the time to make this crap...



Disgusting