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Thread: Billionaire Investor Warren Buffett on the US Tax Code

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    Billionaire Investor Warren Buffett on the US Tax Code

    June 28, 2007
    Buffett blasts system that lets him pay less tax than secretary

    Tom Bawden in New York

    Warren Buffett, the third-richest man in the world, has criticised the US tax system for allowing him to pay a lower rate than his secretary and his cleaner.

    Speaking at a $4,600-a-seat fundraiser in New York for Senator Hillary Clinton, Mr Buffett, who is worth an estimated $52 billion (£26 billion), said: “The 400 of us [here] pay a lower part of our income in taxes than our receptionists do, or our cleaning ladies, for that matter. If you’re in the luckiest 1 per cent of humanity, you owe it to the rest of humanity to think about the other 99 per cent.”

    Mr Buffett said that he was taxed at 17.7 per cent on the $46 million he made last year, without trying to avoid paying higher taxes, while his secretary, who earned $60,000, was taxed at 30 per cent. Mr Buffett told his audience, which included John Mack, the chairman of Morgan Stanley, and Alan Patricof, the founder of the US branch of Apax Partners, that US government policy had accentuated a disparity of wealth that hurt the economy by stifling opportunity and motivation.

    The comments are among the most signficant yet in a debate raging on both sides of the Atlantic about growing income inequality and how the super-wealthy are taxed.

    They echo those made this month by Nicholas Ferguson, one of the leading figures in Britain’s private equity industry, when he criticised tax rates that left its multimillionaire venture capitalists “paying less tax than a cleaning lady”.

    Last week senior members of the US Senate proposed to increase the rate of tax that private equity and hedge fund staff pay on their share of the profits, known as carried interest, from the 15 per cent capital gains rate to about 35 per cent.

    Lloyd Blankfein, the chief executive of Goldman Sachs, acknowledged in an interview yesterday that there were justified concerns about the huge profits generated by private equity firms and that he worried that income inequality was “poisoning democracy”. He also said that he would be voting for the Democrat candidate at the next election. Mr Blankfein is the highest-paid executive on Wall Street, earning $54 million last year.

    Mr Buffett, who runs the investment group Berkshire Hathaway and is widely regarded as the world’s most successful investor, said that he was a Democrat because Republicans are more likely to think: “I’m making $80 million a year – God must have intended me to have a lower tax rate.”

    Mr Buffett said that a Republican proposal to eliminate elements of inheritance tax, which raises about $30 billion a year from the assets of about 12,000 rich families, would broaden the disparity between rich and poor. He added that the Republicans would seek to recover lost revenue by increasing taxes for the less prosperous.

    He said: “You could take that $30 billion and give $1,000 to 30 million poor families. Or should you favour the 12,000 estates and make 30 million families pay an extra $1,000?”

    TheTimes

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    I think Warren Buffet should be the Commerce Secretary. He knows business AND he admits that he doesn't pay enough taxes. Seems like a shoe-in for confirmation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by FORD View Post
    I think Warren Buffet should be the Commerce Secretary. He knows business AND he admits that he doesn't pay enough taxes. Seems like a shoe-in for confirmation.

    Liberal thinking is scary.

    He does pay enough. The problem is that others pay too much. Rather than raise wealthy peoples taxes to be commensurate with everyone else, why not lower the rate on everyone else to an equitable level?
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    The problem is that most of the people in Buffet's tax bracket dodge their taxes and pay little or nothing at all. If you think your taxes are too high, that's probably why.

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    I think Buffett is going through some end-of-life morality thing. Ford, please don't paint him as some sort of "good guy" billionaire. He has done his fair share of moves you'd find objectionable.

    While on the one hand his argument makes some sense, perhaps their should be some loopholes closed, the other hand says that those 400 people generate untold billions of taxable activity, of which we all benefit. They provide jobs and the tax base for many communities. Their corporations pay tax, their employees pay taxes and the cash flow in those communities creates all kinds of taxable events on goods and services.

    If we are talking the greater good, how much is enough?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FORD View Post
    I think Warren Buffet should be the Commerce Secretary. He knows business AND he admits that he doesn't pay enough taxes. Seems like a shoe-in for confirmation.
    I think he should be shot and hung for bamboozling the States to individually criminalize uninsured drivers who can't afford insurance.

    He's a monopolistic fiscal terrorist and a brilliant con artist, you're fuckin' high dude quit smokin that weird swamp weed you guys grow up there.. don't make me wreck your wonderful praise by posting examples.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Train View Post
    If we are talking the greater good, how much is enough?
    Ask Stalin!

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    I never said the guy was a saint. I don't believe anyone is perfect, aside from Jesus Christ. But I'd take Warren Buffett over an oil or "defense" industry CEO any time.

    And you're right about closing the loopholes. While Buffett is correct that he is actually taxed at a lower rate than his secretary, it's the loopholes that allow most of his fellow billionaires to avoid paying even that.

    It's simply ridiculous and grossly unfair that the rapidly shrinking middle class is carrying the tax burden of the entire country, because the top 1% isn't paying their fair share.

    And when there is no more middle class, then who the Hell is going to pay the taxes?

    You seem to be implying that corporations should get tax breaks for providing jobs. President Obama agrees with you, provided those jobs exist here in the USA, and not outsourced cheap labor.

    Oh, and GAR..... shut the fuck up. Nobody asked your racist ass for your hateful opinion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FORD View Post
    I never said the guy was a saint. I don't believe anyone is perfect, aside from Jesus Christ. But I'd take Warren Buffett over an oil or "defense" industry CEO any time.

    And you're right about closing the loopholes. While Buffett is correct that he is actually taxed at a lower rate than his secretary, it's the loopholes that allow most of his fellow billionaires to avoid paying even that.

    It's simply ridiculous and grossly unfair that the rapidly shrinking middle class is carrying the tax burden of the entire country, because the top 1% isn't paying their fair share.

    And when there is no more middle class, then who the Hell is going to pay the taxes?

    You seem to be implying that corporations should get tax breaks for providing jobs. President Obama agrees with you, provided those jobs exist here in the USA, and not outsourced cheap labor.

    Oh, and GAR..... shut the fuck up. Nobody asked your racist ass for your hateful opinion.
    What it all should come down to, and what we as the citizens should complain about is how the government is spending our taxes.

    We are the most wasteful country on earth, the most overstretched country, the most charitable country, and the most armed country. If we would just tone back our massive amounts of spending, on bullshit, everyone would get a tax break, and this stimulus wouldn't be needed.

    And FORD I have changed my stance on troops stationed over-seas, I'm with you now, we don't need troops in 130 countries, we need them in 1, and that is here.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GAR View Post
    Ask Stalin!
    I tried. But he's dead and smells really bad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadaist View Post
    Liberal thinking is scary.

    He does pay enough. The problem is that others pay too much. Rather than raise wealthy peoples taxes to be commensurate with everyone else, why not lower the rate on everyone else to an equitable level?

    Buffet's "liberal thinking" made him a billionaire $everal times over, Potsy...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    I tried. But he's dead and smells really bad.
    ask Lenin's brain then, it's still hangin around

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Train View Post
    I think Buffett is going through some end-of-life morality thing. Ford, please don't paint him as some sort of "good guy" billionaire. He has done his fair share of moves you'd find objectionable.
    He's had a track record of seeing things with both an empathetic world view for the working poor, but also out of self-interest with a farsighted John Steinbeck-esque "Grapes of Wrath" ideal that a stable, prospering middle class makes for a stable, better country --even for the rich...

    While on the one hand his argument makes some sense, perhaps their should be some loopholes closed, the other hand says that those 400 people generate untold billions of taxable activity, of which we all benefit. They provide jobs and the tax base for many communities. Their corporations pay tax, their employees pay taxes and the cash flow in those communities creates all kinds of taxable events on goods and services.

    If we are talking the greater good, how much is enough?
    I don't disagree with this...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Redballjets88 View Post
    ask Lenin's brain then, it's still hangin around
    It's a wax dummy, you sap!

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    On the other hand, JFK's brain (or what's left of it) is probably still hidden in Dallas somewhere.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    Buffet's "liberal thinking" made him a billionaire $everal times over, Potsy...
    Yeah, when he came to California with his bullshit of "greater ranks of insured motorists makes people safer, cost go down, rates fall as the risk spreads out among everyone" was horseshit back in the 80's and complete failure to everyone except Buffet and his board.

    Nobody needs auto insurance, mandating it only made rates triple! It used to be a nice creature comfort like life insurance as a safety cushion in case of an accident but nowadays it's anything but: it's a liablity if you don't have it as you could lose your license if involved in an accident.

    Now he's got his fat fucking finger on this Universal Health *INSURANCE* ding ding ding *INSURANCE* Care Package.

    How much of your annual income goes to combined insurance? Who the fuck needs it! If you can't afford it it's a liability, and mandating it on everyone not only insures the price going up because of increased demand for policies alone!

    Insurance is a nothing-product. Intellectual property. It's invisible, can't feed you, you can't touch it, and in most cases it denies you own it when you need to lay claim to it.

    Fuck Buffet, fuck his making the Government mandate we buy it, and throw his dead ass in a motherfucking hole dug somewhere deep in the plains of Omaha!

    That guy is a crook!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Redballjets88 View Post
    What it all should come down to, and what we as the citizens should complain about is how the government is spending our taxes.

    .

    When you move out of mom and dad's and actually start paying taxes let us know.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Redballjets88 View Post
    If we would just tone back our massive amounts of spending, on bullshit, everyone would get a tax break, and this stimulus wouldn't be needed.
    You mean like invading a country for fraudulent purposes ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Redballjets88 View Post
    we don't need troops in 130 countries, we need them in 1, and that is here.
    I understand that premise, but there have to be some troops in some countries... Such as:

    The minute you remove US troops from South Korea, the North invades the next day.... There is absolutely no question of that... You may not give a shit if they do, but that's what WILL happen....

    The amount of US troops should be reduced in Germany, many people have said that for many years now...

    The other countries, where our presence is merely strategic, like Japan, Italy, Spain, etc, that is really where your argument lies....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redballjets88 View Post

    . If we would just tone back our massive amounts of spending, .
    The RePukes spent record amounts growing government spending while in power from 2001-2006.

    And you never said a peep.

    NOW, you are a fiscal conservative?

    STFU


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    Quote Originally Posted by Va Beach VH Fan View Post

    The minute you remove US troops from South Korea, the North invades the next day.... There is absolutely no question of that... ..
    I don't believe that.

    One, there's one million landmines in the DMZ.

    Two, NK would get the living shit kicked out of them, and would look like Baghdad circa 2003 if they did.

    Why do we not think South Korea can guard their own fucking border?

    I call bullshit on this tired "we need to be there" rhetoric.


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    Bro, I've been there, many times in fact...

    [ OK, I was mostly there to get drunk and bang kimchee-smelling whores, but that's a different story for a different day.... ]

    The two countries are still in a state of war....

    Now, I'm not going to play a "who'd win", but one thing's clear... The North hates the South, and vice versa....

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    Dude, I will always concede you have WAY more first-hand knowledge of the area/conflict than moi....

    But it just seems like we're there out of tradition more than anything else.

    KJI can't even get electricity to anywhere outside of his own capitol, but we're somehow worried he's going to cross the DMZ ????

    Don't think so.


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    The North Korean military is now a stable of agricultural workers, or "farm hands"...

    With the famines, I'm pretty sure the ROK forces could actually now invade North Korea and take it at any time. Conversely, the N. Koreans are starving and are a shell of their former selves with severally dated equipment...

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    Don't be so sure of that... The money they do have, it goes into their military...

    The North Koreans have the 4th largest military in the world, and they're much bettered training than, say, the Iraqis were claimed to be before Desert Storm...

    It just goes back to my initial premise.... We leave South Korea, those two go to war....

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    Well, perhaps the South wins one finally....

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    He's right

    Some of you realize everything we get from our media is slanted. Well, they also decide what is news worthy to begin with and not everything that joe lamen would think is news gets reported. A perfect example of this is a trip to Paris during Op Noble Anvil. There were several reports from different European news agencies that a North Korean boat opened fire on a South Korean boat and in fact had done so twice in one week. It was clearly an aggressive act being perpotrated as an accident. That was the unanimous conclusion of them all including the BBC. When I called home and asked about it, it had gotten so little coverage here that my girlfriend had to search for information about the reports online.

    The North and South Koreans are not friendly at all. Would they definately invade the south? I can't say with certainty if they would or actually could defeat them but odds are the north would try.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FORD View Post

    You seem to be implying that corporations should get tax breaks for providing jobs. President Obama agrees with you, provided those jobs exist here in the USA, and not outsourced cheap labor.
    In principle, I agree with the President. That's why I'm so frustrated with his stimulus bill. The amounts involved on this core idea, providing stable jobs for middle class americans in new industries we can dominate (i.e. green energy) are completely insufficient. He is trying to cover too much ground in health care, education and the like in this bill. By almost everyone's account, it only puts a dent in the infrastructure issues and gives far to little to kickstart these new industries in terms of tax breaks and incentives. We have to stimulate the economy first and foremost.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stringfelowhawk View Post
    The North and South Koreans are not friendly at all. Would they definately invade the south? I can't say with certainty if they would or actually could defeat them but odds are the north would try.
    I can! My dad was there, and the vets at the hospitals I've visited all say the same thing: the North run provocative exercises every day in the DMZ.

    If we evacuated the DMZ they would load up the trucks and drive over in minutes. Hell they dug a tunnel for years under the DMZ and tried to drive UNDER it why would anyone think they wouldn't drive over topside and invade?

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    Quote Originally Posted by LoungeMachine View Post
    The RePukes spent record amounts growing government spending while in power from 2001-2006.

    And you never said a peep.

    NOW, you are a fiscal conservative?

    STFU

    Why be snide when you agree? It doesn't make sense other than to further yourself as being a cocksucker.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GAR View Post
    I can! My dad was there, and the vets at the hospitals I've visited all say the same thing: the North run provocative exercises every day in the DMZ.

    If we evacuated the DMZ they would load up the trucks and drive over in minutes. Hell they dug a tunnel for years under the DMZ and tried to drive UNDER it why would anyone think they wouldn't drive over topside and invade?
    If they invade south korea...

    1. it isn't hurting Americans

    2. If South Korea needs help friendly nations can be there in a heartbeat with todays technology. We don't need to spend millions to have our citizens pretty much waiting to get shot at by north korea.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Redballjets88 View Post
    If they invade south korea...

    1. it isn't hurting Americans

    2. If South Korea needs help friendly nations can be there in a heartbeat with todays technology. We don't need to spend millions to have our citizens pretty much waiting to get shot at by north korea.
    The problem is if we leave, South Korea will be invaded and our children will not have cheap toys purchased at Walmart for their birthdays

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    Quote Originally Posted by Redballjets88 View Post
    If they invade south korea...

    1. it isn't hurting Americans

    2. If South Korea needs help friendly nations can be there in a heartbeat with todays technology. We don't need to spend millions to have our citizens pretty much waiting to get shot at by north korea.
    You're so unsubstantiated, you'll be the second Sheep Penner I've blocked.

    ::POOF::

    Dullard. Read a book.

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    The BCE are good friends with Reverend Moon, and lots of people like their Hyundai cars and LG electronics. Not to mention Korean BBQ & Kimchee. So I don't think we're going to cut Korea loose anytime soon

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    Quote Originally Posted by FORD View Post
    Korean BBQ & Kimchee.
    Dak Bulgogi is awesome!! BUT... that fermented cabbage (kimchee) crap is nasty!! Every time my wife and my inlaws eat that crap I have to leave, because that putrid smell makes me nauseated.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FORD View Post
    and lots of people like their Hyundai cars
    They do make a decent product. Come a long way from the 80's throw away models that were basically just made for 16th birthdays & graduation presents.

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    Um, the North Korean Army hasn't conducted any large scale training in almost a decade, and their vehicles lay rotting in their motor pools with deficient maintenance and almost no fuel...

    They couldn't invade a whorehouse at this point...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    They couldn't invade a whorehouse at this point...
    4th largest army can't do that?

    So according to you they won't be doing their Spring Annual Shindig, like they normally do:

    <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/DnZBgiZ3d8s&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/DnZBgiZ3d8s&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

    Granted they're like, 3 foot 7 inches and weigh about 89 pounds it's not about how adorably tiny they are, but the AK47's they carry. Those'll hurt ya.

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    The BCE used to claim Iraq had the "4th largest army". Look how well they held up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by GAR View Post
    4th largest army can't do that?

    So according to you they won't be doing their Spring Annual Shindig, like they normally do:

    <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/DnZBgiZ3d8s&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/DnZBgiZ3d8s&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

    Granted they're like, 3 foot 7 inches and weigh about 89 pounds it's not about how adorably tiny they are, but the AK47's they carry. Those'll hurt ya.
    Oh God no! How can we ever stop a parade!?!

    And the world's "Fourth Largest Army" is actually the world's largest staff of agricultural workers....

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    Quote Originally Posted by GAR View Post
    Granted they're like, 3 foot 7 inches and weigh about 89 pounds it's not about how adorably tiny they are, but the AK47's they carry. Those'll hurt ya.

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