KISS News Bits

[FORD]

And yet, there will always be those kinds of fans that fantasize about flaying Tommy Thayer alive and using his blood to attract sharks and have the sharks eat him alive for wearing the Space Ace makeup.

Nah, I don't wish a violent death on the guy or anything like that. Hell, I don't even wish it on Chaim Witz or Stanley Eisen, who would be arguably more deserving.

I just think they should either take the makeup off entirely (like they did for all the other non-original lineups) or else come up with new characters for these guys, and be honest about who and what the band is now, and stop trying to present this fraud as "the Real KISS".

I wasn't crazy about much of the music they made between 1980 - 1996, but at least they didn't try to pass it off as something it wasn't.

[Nitro Express]

Nah, I don't wish a violent death on the guy or anything like that. Hell, I don't even wish it on Chaim Witz or Stanley Eisen, who would be arguably more deserving.

I just think they should either take the makeup off entirely (like they did for all the other non-original lineups) or else come up with new characters for these guys, and be honest about who and what the band is now, and stop trying to present this fraud as "the Real KISS".

I wasn't crazy about much of the music they made between 1980 - 1996, but at least they didn't try to pass it off as something it wasn't.

Chaim and Paul aren't stupid. They were smart enough to see the public loved the NOSTALGIA and were willing to pay for it. It didn't seem to matter that someone else was in the makeup. You wouldn't have the NOSTALGIA illusion if TOMMY Painted Zebra stripes on his face or looked like an evil clown. As long as the music is good, the fireworks blow, and nobody fucks up the choreography and they can sell this shit, all is well in zion. Gene always said KISS was bigger than any one member. He's right. KI$$ like money itself is simply a well crafted illusion.

[FORD]

Well, at least the zebra stripes would work with Kabuki style makeup. I think the evil clown thing has been done by some stupid talentless rap group though, so they probably don't want to go with that.

[Nitro Express]

I think Gene Simmons is a guy not to fuck with. He truly believes revenge is a dish best served cold. Ok. Dress like a Nazi. I hate it and I hate you but we need you to make money and I'm not going to risk jeopardizing the band by getting rid of you right now because it will make the drummer mad and I'm not in the mood to deal with that Italian hot head at the moment.

You are a fuck up Ace. You are going to fuck yourself over and when you come back to us down the road, I'm going to serve you the cold dish. I'm going to expose you in my book. I'm going to make you a temp. I'm going to create a situation where you hang yourself again and I'm going to put the spotlight on your stupidity.

[FORD]

Chaim could have made all that "Ace is a Nazi" shit up though. Just like he apparently made up the story about Eddie & Alex playing on the demo of "Christine Sixteen" - because you KNOW his greedy ass would have put out that tape by now if it existed, knowing it would sell.

Not that Ace wouldn't be incapable of getting drunk and stupid and thinking.... hey, how can I fuck with these guys? Oh yeah....they're Jews! Why don't I dress up like a Nazi and really piss them off!. It just seems odd that the story never came out until Chaim needed to justify kicking Ace out of the band.

[Mr. Vengeance]

Weren't selling? Seriously? Most bands would KILL to have half of their numbers.

http://www.kissfaq.com/reference/KISS-Sales.pdf

http://www.fanpop.com/clubs/kiss/articles/119159/title/kiss-album-sales-worldwide

The live shows that I've attended in California, Texas, Colorado, North Carolina, Virginia, New York, Toronto, Buffalo, Michigan, Florida have either been sold out or you had to look hard for the empty seats. One of my all-time favorite tours was back in 92 and they weren't wearing makeup for that one...The Palace of Auburn Hills was jammed and the Detroit crowd gave them a film worthy place to showcase what they were all about.

Believe your own eyes with those "scabs" as they've been called. Playing off a really great KISS album "Revenge"...with those scabs...to an arena where...well, there's no crickets chirping.

The reunion did jumpstart interest in the band but it was a nostalgia grab for cash and nothing more. Everyone on the inside knew it too. Peter knew...Ace knew. They weren't members of the band, they were hired scale employees. They soured the deal too. They both walked out before and were holding the band, the fans, the promoters for another renegotiated contract. They realized they weren't getting the band back together and they wouldn't be allowed back in. Actions have consequences. Part of what soured the fans was Gene and Paul getting the rights to the "Spaceman" and "Catman" makeup and likeness. Kudos to them...look at the merchandising they did after that! Ace and Peter let it slip from their hands. They took their booze/drug addled abilities and walked out once...held a "gun" to their heads and got the rug yanked out from under them. Too bad. I've met Ace and had a chance to talk to him. He's a likeable guy, but you KNOW he has substance abuse issues. Haven't met Peter, but had friends that have and they all have the same thing to say..."never saw him without a glass in his hand". Peter and Ace gave away the makeup and likeness they created. It's on THEM, not Gene and Paul. Do I wish they'd just keep on creating new characters? Yes, I do. They decided to stick with their formula...one that has and is working. What I'm hearing is a lot of jealousy and bitterness from a lot here about a working band that at the end of the day isn't ready to hop in a grave and push daisies. Sounds like by the way their tours are still being attended and even "Sonic Boom" and "Monster" are being bought...even in this digital day and age.


People are STILL showing up.

People still show up for Ace and Peter too. I've attended several Ace shows...he mainly plays solo stuff but when he dusts of KISS songs he helped create and wrote...he's smiling when he's playing them. I'm POSITIVE both of them love cashing those KISS royalty checks that they still get to this day. If only they would've sobered up and realized the opportunity that was given to them when they were given it...and time again.

You gotta be kidding me with this shit.....You're WAYYYYYYY too caught up in KISS fandom if you're writing this much to defend them like this. I grew up with KISS, love KISS, supported them through all the changes, taking off the makeup, even that fucking awful Elder album, but If you actually think that KISS was selling albums or selling out all their shows before the reunion tour, you're out of your mind.

I'm pissed at Gene and Paul. They are robbing the fans of what we want. And I won't spend one cent to go to a scab show. I bought both albums (I can deal with $10), but not one cent on a show. Take off the makeup, we can talk.

[Never was]

Because Gene is money driven is why he would not make up the Nazi stuff. Frankly despite how horrible Ace played in his last tour if he could keep him moneywise it makes more sense and always have. The Nazi is admitted to by Ace and seeing as members of the band had relatives die in concentration camps the guy should have known better.

Fully agree using the Ace and Peter make up is wrong, should have created new ones. That is a decision made by Gene and Paul so rip em for it they deserve it. Eric's make up is not even a topic as he is most admired internally and to use Vincent's make up would mean acknowledging him which they won't, so new make up should have been done. However calling Tommy is scab is childish and not reality based. He has done his job and done it well whatever it has entailed for over 20 years with the band. Other than Gene and Paul he is the only person to have worked the business and music side of kiss. Rip the decision and the folks who made it but a loyal employee for a few decades is not a scab who just jumped onboard to temporarily. Cut with the immature name calling of someone because you dislike someone else's decision.

[sadaist]

Sorry, not a KISS fan. Have maybe a dozen or less of their songs in my collection. Seen them once just for. But which members are being inducted? Dont tell me VV is part of it. Id like to see all of them up there playing a song or two like Metallica bringing Jason out. Either that or the orig 4 in full costume while the non origs step aside out of respect for the founders that built it.

Not playing at all kinda sucks but does avoid a load of conflict. Just as sam and mike shouldnt have played.

All play or origs only. That or nada.

[Mr. Vengeance]

Because Gene is money driven is why he would not make up the Nazi stuff. Frankly despite how horrible Ace played in his last tour if he could keep him moneywise it makes more sense and always have. The Nazi is admitted to by Ace and seeing as members of the band had relatives die in concentration camps the guy should have known better.

Fully agree using the Ace and Peter make up is wrong, should have created new ones. That is a decision made by Gene and Paul so rip em for it they deserve it. Eric's make up is not even a topic as he is most admired internally and to use Vincent's make up would mean acknowledging him which they won't, so new make up should have been done. However calling Tommy is scab is childish and not reality based. He has done his job and done it well whatever it has entailed for over 20 years with the band. Other than Gene and Paul he is the only person to have worked the business and music side of kiss. Rip the decision and the folks who made it but a loyal employee for a few decades is not a scab who just jumped onboard to temporarily. Cut with the immature name calling of someone because you dislike someone else's decision.

Stepping into someone else's makeup and presonnae, and mimiking his solos and stage movements is a scab. We're talking Ace Frehley, not some shlub dressed in a Mickey Mouse costume at Disneyland.

[FORD]

Stepping into someone else's makeup and presonnae, and mimiking his solos and stage movements is a scab. We're talking Ace Frehley, not some shlub dressed in a Mickey Mouse costume at Disneyland.

Exactly.....

I'm sure comparisons were made between Ace and Vinnie Vincent, or Ace and Bruce Kulick, or Ace and that Mark guy who was in the band for a week or so, but those guys were being themselves. They weren't trying to "be" Ace.

That is a huge difference.

[Heater]

Chaim could have made all that "Ace is a Nazi" shit up though. Just like he apparently made up the story about Eddie & Alex playing on the demo of "Christine Sixteen" - because you KNOW his greedy ass would have put out that tape by now if it existed, knowing it would sell.

Not that Ace wouldn't be incapable of getting drunk and stupid and thinking.... hey, how can I fuck with these guys? Oh yeah....they're Jews! Why don't I dress up like a Nazi and really piss them off!. It just seems odd that the story never came out until Chaim needed to justify kicking Ace out of the band.

He did it. There's pictures of him all SS'ed up. Theres also one where hes with Paul who is wearing a Nazi hat and swastika armband.

[Never was]

So when Tommy was playing "Ace" guitar parts and Ace took credit and wore the make up not a scab.
But if he is in the make up then scab.
So for the majority of career with Kiss he was not a scab but now is, ok.
But Eric Singer did photoshoots without make up so now he has Peter's make up but since he did those pics he is not a scab.
Paul and Gene who put on costumes and wigs to be more the part of those identities are not scabs despite creating an artificial performance to resemble something they are not because they once were, ok.


I get the Kiss has become a parody of themselves shots (and very true). I get the Paul and Gene suck for turning a band into a brand. I get tearing to shreds for the make up decision. I actually agree with Paul and Gene in everybody or nobody in regards to the hall of fame, but fair to say originals only as well.

The scab logic sounds a lot like rules kids create for their imaginary clubs to keep the girls out. To each their own I guess.

[FORD]

He did it. There's pictures of him all SS'ed up. Theres also one where hes with Paul who is wearing a Nazi hat and swastika armband.

Well, then shouldn't Chaim have kicked Paul out of the band?

I'm not Jewish, so maybe I'm the wrong one to make the distinction, but I would think that seeing another Jew dressed in Nazi crap would be even more offensive than seeing a drunken Dutchman dressed like that.

[Mr. Vengeance]

So when Tommy was playing "Ace" guitar parts and Ace took credit and wore the make up not a scab.
But if he is in the make up then scab.
So for the majority of career with Kiss he was not a scab but now is, ok.
But Eric Singer did photoshoots without make up so now he has Peter's make up but since he did those pics he is not a scab.
Paul and Gene who put on costumes and wigs to be more the part of those identities are not scabs despite creating an artificial performance to resemble something they are not because they once were, ok.


I get the Kiss has become a parody of themselves shots (and very true). I get the Paul and Gene suck for turning a band into a brand. I get tearing to shreds for the make up decision. I actually agree with Paul and Gene in everybody or nobody in regards to the hall of fame, but fair to say originals only as well.

The scab logic sounds a lot like rules kids create for their imaginary clubs to keep the girls out. To each their own I guess.

You're really reaching here....

[78/84 guy]

I think most people are okay with the KISS lineups pre-96...

I think people are fine with any member that have been in Kiss. It's the clone makeup that has people pissed off at the other two. It's complete bullfucking shit ! To scam people that don't know better to make a buck ! Case closed. They should be ashamed of themselves, but their pocket book tell tells them something else.