For The Drummers Out There...

[chefcraig]

This is a collection of fairly interesting clips and info for drummers. First up, a time lapsed video of the set up involved in putting together Terry Bozzio's ridiculous drum set. The clip is narrated by Bozzio, and is available as a bonus track on a DVD called Terry Bozzio Live with Chris Maresh and the Tosca Strings. The clip also includes some brief footage of Bozzio recording a track for Korn's Untitled album.

Next up, a video of culled from a VH-1 special in the mid-nineties. A Michigan music store owner decided to build the world's largest drum set in 1994, and when he was done asked Chad Smith to play the damned thing. It was so large that it was only assembled once, in a church converted into a concert hall for an evening.

[LoungeMachine]

You're assuming drummers can scrape their knuckles up off the floor long enough to ask someone what the thread title says.....

[chefcraig]

I've often said that Neil Peart isn't a drummer, and he really isn't a musician. The truth is, the guy is an athlete. For proof of the fellow's versatility, here is the man performing at The Buddy Rich Meorial Concert in 1989.

[chefcraig]

You're assuming drummers can scrape their knuckles up off the floor long enough to ask someone what the thread title says.....

Yup. Plus the site needed a place to put all of those drummer jokes in, anyway...

[LoungeMachine]

drummer jokes

redundant.

[kwame k]

Thanks Craig! I've been watching Buddy Rich over the last few days and have been contemplating reducing my kit back down to the bare bones. 3 piece with bongos, cowbell and 3 or 4 cymbals.

I do appreciate a massive drum set and played bloated kits my whole life. Terry's kit makes sense because of the different tones/notes he is using and the tonal palette he is trying to create but really 3 or 4 toms, in a rock setting is plenty.

He's a side note on Bozzio's kit.



All drums are dw Verticle Low Timber drums - olive ash burl finish - satin chrome lugs - black powdercoat rims - with tb "tunerz" lug locking adapters to prevent detuning & back turning

Drum level (l to r)

glockenspiel
10" snare tuned to D (puresound snares)
13 - 8" x 3" piccolo toms - chromatically tuned from high C to C an octave lower (drums descend in 1/2 step in pitch from upper l down to lower r at a diagonal angle)
12" solid craviotto snare tuned to B (puresound snares)
8" x 3" piccolo tom tuned to Bb
8" x 6" tom tuned to A
4 - 10"x 6" toms G-F-E-D
10" x 8" tuned to C
12" x 6" tuned to B
12" x 8" tuned to A
13" x 9" tuned to G
14" x 10" tuned to F
16" x 12" tuned to E
roland handsonic
All pedals are dw 9000 (bass drum pedals w/nylon strap & tb's special cam modifications) & 9500 (hihat pedals w/chain) series.

Remote pedals are 9000 single post (right side pedal posts are reversed because linkage goes to the right and to allow for the pedals to sit close to each other)

All bds are mounted on pdp cradles that allow the most tone & resonance and adjustment for striking the sweet spot on the head.

Beaters are puresound percussion hard plastic or felt.



Lower Level (foot operated instruments)

12" chinese gong or
8" x 3" foot tom tuned to
10" x foot tom tuned to
12" x foot tom tuned to
10" hi hat
vic firth/emil richards jingle stick
paul e. "mooneye" wooded headed tambourine
12" paul e. wooden headed djembe
16" x bd tuned to F (w/ akg d-112 may mic)
left remote china hi hat 16" over 18"
20" x 12" bd tuned to C (w/ akg d-112 may mic)
spoxe hi hat
12" hi hats
20" x 16" main left kick drum (muffled) tuned to Bb (w/ akg d-112 may mic)
pete englehardt metal tambourine shaker or tb special tambourine foot plate jingle device
20" x 16" main right kick drum (muffled) tuned to G (w/ akg d-112 may mic)
24" x 14" bd tuned to A (w/ akg d-112 may mic)
right remote hi hats 16" over 20"
18" x bd tuned to D (w/ akg d-112 may mic)
18" x bd tuned to E (w/ akg d-112 may mic)
20" x 8" bd tuned to B (w/ akg d-112 may mic)
All cymbals sabian radia (tb signature)



Upper Level (left to right)

21" ride
16" china below 8"china
18" china below 10"china
14" china w/12"crash stack below 7"china w/6"crash stack
16" china w/14"crash stack below 8"china w/7"crash stack
18" china w/16"crash stack below 10"china w/8"crash stack
20" china w/18"crash stack below 12"china w/10"crash stack
20" china below 12"china
22" china below 14"china
36" chinese gong (behind right w/beater on cym boom)

Lower Level (drum level)

(left to right)

10" hihats
left remote china hi hat 16" over 18"
spoxe hi hat (roto tom castings taken apart and used as hi hat)
12" hi hats
lp tambourine
12" heavy bell under 8" cup chime
11" heavy bell under 7 1/2" cup chime
10" heavy bell under 7" cup chime
9" heavy bell under 6 1/2" cup chime
20" flat ride w/20"china stack, under closed14" flat bottom hi hats, under factory metal , under pete englehardt ribbon crasher
26" B-20 radia gong on dw custom 3 point gong holder (played w/a stick, used as a ride cymbal)
20" crash w/20" novo type china stack
right remote china hi hat 16" over 20"

Either side of snare

(left to right)

6" closed flat bottom mini hihat
7" closed flat bottom mini hihat

Above and Behind:

36" wuhan chinese gong
one octave tuned set of wuhan chinese bossed gongs (not shown)

All hardware is made by dw, including:

pdp rack
cymbal stands and 4" stackers
rack clamps
tom holders
throne
piccolo tom holders
All heads are tb signature 1-ply mylar clear by attack (snare batter heads are coated- 12" snare has white dot on top or bottom)


Mic's (not shown)

Normally i use akg 414, c-264, c-12, solidtube or c-4000 mics ambiently for solo or classical/jazz & recording applications - and for rock or louder situations i use akg 419 or 418 clip-on's for toms and snares.

Link

[kwame k]

redundant.

Fuck off strings

[LoungeMachine]

Porn for neanderthals.



I feel my IQ lowering being in here......

[kwame k]

Here's another thing drummers might be interested in. I haven't tried these drum heads yet but I think I'm going to buy them next payday. I'm really interested on how they sit on the tom and if they'll seat themselves better than traditional drum heads. I like that they are more like bongo heads and it may stay in tune longer and give better overall tone without the annoying over ring.

From Bozzio's website

In his constant quest for perfection, Terry Bozzio has again improved his signature series ATTACK TM Drumheads. For Terry's solo, melodic playing style, tuning heads to actual notes is critical, and this new design has made tuning the myriad of drums Terry plays much easier. The new patent pending design was tested and perfected by Terry himself. A more bongo-like collar fits perfectly over the bearing edge without forced tension and stretching, resulting in no dead spots, even when you first put them on. The heads are easier to tune and stay in tune much better. And a special bonus, because of the perfect fit, the heads can last up to twice as long! We think you'll like this new design as much as Terry does.


Toms
medium clear toms
medium coated toms
Snares
medium snare sides (bottom)
medium coated bottom dot
medium coated top dot(Top Dot Snares are temporarily unavailable...please check back soon... "
Bass Drums
medium clear
medium coated
no Overtone clear
no Overtone coated
black thin skin

[LoungeMachine]

What size sticks do you use?



Ever try the HotRods?

[bait]

[kwame k]

Porn for neanderthals.



I feel my IQ lowering being in here......

Bullshit, string picker! Every reply to Gar makes your IQ drop.......replying here will just make you

[kwame k]

What size sticks do you use?



Ever try the HotRods?

[bait]

[chefcraig]

Here's another thing drummers might be interested in. I haven't tried these drum heads yet but I think I'm going to buy them next payday. I'm really interested on how they sit on the tom and if they'll seat themselves better than traditional drum heads. I like that they are more like bongo heads and it may stay in tune longer and give better overall tone without the annoying over ring.

I hope this doesn't turn out like those short-lived "hydraulic heads". As I recall, the idea was pretty good, yet the technology available at the time to make them was fairly dismal.

I hear ya on downsizing your set. The most effective guys I know are using an early Bonham-like set-up, consisting of a snare, one tom, a floor tom, a crash, high-hat and ride. Things really got out of hand when people started using double bass drum sets. They just started piling more and more shit on top of them. The invention of the double bass pedal for a single kick was a terrific thing, and makes the double bass kit obsolete. For one thing, you do not need to lug around as much shit, and besides that, unless you are playing ELP, Crimson or early Genesis covers, who needs the damned thing?

[chefcraig]

I posted this in another thread, yet it is worth revisiting as it allows you to visualize how John Bonham could literally "stretch" time while playing in Led Zeppelin. You may need to watch this a few times to actually catch on to what is taking place.

[kwame k]

I hope this doesn't turn out like those short-lived "hydraulic heads". As I recall, the idea was pretty good, yet the technology available at the time to make them was fairly dismal.

I hear ya on downsizing your set. The most effective guys I know are using an early Bonham-like set-up, consisting of a snare, one tom, a floor tom, a crash, high-hat and ride. Things really got out of hand when people started using double bass drum sets. They just started piling more and more shit on top of them. The invention of the double bass pedal for a single kick was a terrific thing, and makes the double bass kit obsolete. For one thing, you do not need to lug around as much shit, and besides that, unless you are playing ELP, Crimson or early Genesis covers, who needs the damned thing?

You're talking about the Evans Hydraulic drum heads and they still make them. I agree with your assessment of those heads, as far as in the early days, they sucked. The funny thing is Remo has been using oil filled heads for years, the Pinstripe, it does a far better job and way cheaper too. Pinstripes are fucking work horses, as long as you tune them right and keep a relatively even tension, the plys won't seperate.

The head I used for years on my metal Snares were the Remo FyberskinsII, I used it on my wooden Snares too but a coated Ambassador is the one and only, for me.

Really I'm more into the groove of the drummer, the nuances and the subtleties. Gotta tell ya, Charlie Watts, the older I become the more I appreciate him. If you can make a 3 piece cook and swing at the same time, you're doing something.

[chefcraig]

You mentioned Remo, which reminds me of something I could never figure. The company came out with roto toms in what, 1977 or so? Then why couldn't this lefty-loosy/righty-tighty technology be adapted for all drum heads? Essentially, all you'd need was the same turntable like set-up, only one that you could lock into place. It would make tuning so much easier, rather than chasing your tail with a drum key.

[kwame k]

You mentioned Remo, which reminds me of something I could never figure. The company came out with roto toms in what, 1977 or so? Then why couldn't this lefty-loosy/righty-tighty technology be adapted for all drum heads? Essentially, all you'd need was the same turntable like set-up, only one that you could lock into place. It would make tuning so much easier, rather than chasing your tail with a drum key.

They've actually done have that. Never played them and have no idea how they sound but......

[kwame k]

Here's a fun one......too bad most of Gene Krupa's stuff was only put on film in the movies. There doesn't seem to be a fucking film from that era that doesn't have Krupa in it somewhere. Gangster scene car chase, out of nowhere there's Gene and his band.

[chefcraig]

They've actually done have that. Never played them and have no idea how they sound but...

That is odd looking. There appears to be a one (or more) inch gap between the head and the shell, and the shell itself is abbreviated as hell. Weird.

[kwame k]

No info on it and I don't think Pearl ever released a drum like that. All you're really doing, in a simplistic sense, is moving air from the top head to the bottom head, so even with a gap, if you tuned the batter head correctly you could get resonance off of the shell. I know shell resonance and a sealed space between heads is more effective but I bet you could get some weird sounds out of it.

[chefcraig]

Still looks strange, yet the way you explained it makes sense. Speaking of strange, here's Mr. Bean playing an invisible set.

[kwame k]

You know, thinking about it more, that doesn't even work because you have that screw thing in the middle that's used to change the pitch on a roto Tom. Wow, never really thought about it that much but to do it right, you'd have to basically encase a shell around a roto tom, yet still be able to spin the roto tom and have it sealed at the same time.

[chefcraig]

Essentially, you'd have three rings. The outer outer ring could hold the entire thing together, which could actually be halfed with a hinge to attach the device to the shell and hold it in place. Next would be a second that fits with the innermost, which would spin free (think of a bearing and a race). The gasket would connect and contain the two rings, creating the seal. The seal itself would have to be like a rubber flange, that will expand or contract. It need not be drastic, as the average throw would only be 3/4s of an inch at most.

I could draw it better than explain it, yet it would be fairly simple to create. It would work pretty much the way a bit housing/holder works on an electric drill.

[kwame k]

Essentially, you'd have three rings. The outer outer ring could hold the entire thing together, which could actually be halfed with a hinge to attach the device to the shell and hold it in place. Next would be a second that fits with the innermost, which would spin free (think of a bearing and a race). The gasket would connect and contain the two rings, creating the seal. The seal itself would have to be like a rubber flange, that will expand or contract. It need not be drastic, as the average throw would only be 3/4s of an inch at most.

I could draw it better than explain it, yet it would be fairly simple to create. It would work pretty much the way a bit housing/holder works on an electric drill.

OK, I'm picking up what you're laying down. The gasket would be key in it, if you think about it, it doesn't have to be hermetically sealed, most drum have an air hole anyways.

[chefcraig]

Bingo. Think of how a lid screws onto a thermos bottle. Imagine placing a piece of Saran Wrap between the lid and the bottle. The SW would be your drum head. Now if you used a rubber band to hold the SW to the lid, that would be your expanding gasket. The cup that you screw onto the top of the thermos would hold it all together.

[LoungeMachine]

Bingo. Think of how a lid screws onto a thermos bottle. Imagine placing a piece of Saran Wrap between the lid and the bottle. The SW would be your drum head. Now if you used a rubber band to hold the SW to the lid, that would be your expanding gasket. The cup that you screw onto the top of the thermos would hold it all together.

Finally a visual that won't confound them.

[kwame k]

Bingo. Think of how a lid screws onto a thermos bottle. Imagine placing a piece of Saran Wrap between the lid and the bottle. The SW would be your drum head. Now if you used a rubber band to hold the SW to the lid, that would be your expanding gasket.

You're definitely on to something but I always imagined something like the Gibson guitar that self tunes, now that would be cool. Have a tension sensing device that could mechanically keep tension, where the lug screws in at.

[chefcraig]

You're definitely on to something but I always imagined something like the Gibson guitar that self tunes, now that would be cool. Have a tension sensing device that could mechanically keep tension, where the lug screws in at.

It could be a spring if you think about it, yet what I'm saying is to remove the bolts altogether. You'd have three concentric rings, with equal tension held to the head throughout it's surface, rather than 6 or 8 pressure points. Essentially, it would be replacing 5 lug nuts/bolts on the wheel of a car with one. In terms of mechanics, it is not a simpler device, yet it does far more. It allows quick changing of heads, along with on the fly tuning that can be done while playing, without a drum key.

[kwame k]

It would seem that a pressure clamp type thing would do that. Think about something like the tensioning claps on a musical flight case. Replace the lugs around the shell and the rim with a clasp(clasp is not really the right word but) with an adjustable clamp and you could achieve the same results without totally redesigning the drum.......not sure if that makes much sense but I'm just riffing here.

[chefcraig]

Hey, me too when it comes to riffing. Besides, all of this actual musicianship stuff will be replaced by machines and video games soon anyway...

Must say, it's been fun thinking the shit up and bouncing ideas back and forth, ya know? That stuff will never die.

[kwame k]

Hey, me too when it comes to riffing. Besides, all of this actual musicianship stuff will be replaced by machines and video games soon anyway...

Must say, it's been fun thinking the shit up and bouncing ideas back and forth, ya know? That stuff will never die.

Free exchange of ideas Craig, I'm all for that! Great riffing with ya

My brother, they'll never replace the natural or acoustic instruments. Yes, the inroads they have made in all electrical instruments is amazing. That fucking Roland V-Pro

That may become my work horse kit, play it anywhere, no worries about being too loud and being able to tweak setting like a guitar amp, plus 100's of presets!!!!! Crank that fucker through a Marshall amp, too bad the V-Drums are still 5 grand new.

They would be great for convenience but like every time they try to emulate acoustic instruments, they never get it quite right.

[chefcraig]

Look, I've been dealing with these "Gizmo-cretins" since around 1976, OK? First it was the guitar wiz-hards that had the latest toys (that weighed about as much as a bag of fertilizer and gave off odd shocks). I'd use my fingers, a Cry-baby wah pedal and volume to get my point across, while these guys were tap-dancing all over the place. I also found out that they had rooms to practice in that had full-length mirrors. And if you asked these self-obsessed dickwads a simple question, they'd either be crankily dismissive or ignore you.

A few years later, a bunch of guys showed up with fashions from the J.C. Penny "young woman's section", wearing make-up from Eckerd drugs and holding some bulky keyboards and jack-plugs. I asked the same questions, and received the same snotty answers.

It took me a few years to piece together the truth. The thing is, if I asked "What key is that in?", these fuckers did not know. The arrogance they maintained was in fact affected, to disguise a fear.

And that fear is what I fail to understand. Crap, I don't know what notes I'm playing a great part of the time. Yet this arrogance is borne of petulance, an intangible insecurity that all non-real "musicians" have. True artists can get together and create, usually by accident. Posers hide behind devices. Artists can create with a pen and paper, or less.

There is a guy named Westerberg that wrote a great line, about "playin' make-up, wearing guitar". How true. How fuckin' true.

[kwame k]

Spot fucking on Craig! I'm really thinking about stripping my kit down to the absolute basics. Bass, snare, floor tom, ride cymbal, hi-hats, and a couple of crashes. replacing the mounted toms with bongos or a djembe, something like that.

[chefcraig]

Spot fucking on Craig! I'm really thinking about stripping my kit down to the absolute basics. Bass, snare, floor tom, ride cymbal, hi-hats, and a couple of crashes. replacing the mounted toms with bongos or a djembe, something like that.

So, experiment, why not? For one thing, you will challenge yourself in ways you did not expect. Remember that cliche' of rolling off the double toms into the crash, one you perhaps relied on from time to time? It's now gone.
How's about playing your snare rudiments on the bass drum, and your bass drum kicks as on the snare?

I'd mentioned a variant on the theme to a guitarist who'd reached a dead end with composition. I suggested he try de-tuning some strings. The hands will develop different chording shapes.

Redefine the parameters.

By taking shit apart, you gain incredible insights. One of these days, I must tell ya my story of playing with a reggae band in the Bahamas. Talk about trading information. By the way, it was me that taught the guys how to play in reggae time. Yup, the tourist rocks a town square. (Hint: We played a bunch of Creedence and Seger tunes first.)

[kwame k]

Oh, I have been all over changing up and transposing one drum for another. Just using your left hand as another bass drum and using the heal to toe bass drum trick there's really no need for two bass drums. Look at Bonham for instance, he could do licks like this..........



The real trick is to keep something steady and in time. That's why keeping time on your right hand helps move a groove along and giving an illusion of constant forward movement. That frees up your left hand for endless possibilities. Think about how many snare hits there are in a 4/4 time signature, that leaves huge gaps rythmacially.

I use a pair of bongos to the left side of my hi-hat. I can hit my snare strikes and yet go over to the bongos, still coming back in time with my snare. I did a mean version of Sympathy For The Devil utilizing that technique.

[kwame k]

Check this cat out.........

[VH Drummer]

They've actually done have that. Never played them and have no idea how they sound but......

I've got both pairs of roto toms. I can match the "1984" sound on the 15"/17" pair but the others are too high pitched for my taste.

I've always wondered how Alex got the roto tom heads onto a regular shell and now it all makes sense, I think I'm going to give that a try. (I never thought I'd say this but) Thanks, Kwame!

[GAR]

A guy who used to work at Dr Music in Pasadena bought Alex's clear-shelled Ludwig octobons for $400. Those are unique-sounding toms.

[VH Drummer]

I tried the roto tom thing today, it didn't work out that well, it looks like the shell in the picture is a half. I was able to put the 14" top on an old snare I have (and removed the wires) and it sounds like a really deep roto tom, I put it on the right of my hi-hat (I'm a lefty).

[kwame k]

I tried the roto tom thing today, it didn't work out that well, it looks like the shell in the picture is a half. I was able to put the 14" top on an old snare I have (and removed the wires) and it sounds like a really deep roto tom, I put it on the right of my hi-hat (I'm a lefty).

Far out man! Did you have to tune the bottom head of the shell real tight to get the resonance to transfer from top to bottom and get that bounce back?