My new project, it's a "Jem" of a guitar

[indeedido]

I started this project back around November, but I've had several delays. I was fool enough to start two guitars at once, and when winter hit, it bogged me down. Had some issues with a neck I bought, turned out to be a lemon. Luthier tried to rip me off, got my credit card company involved and got my dough back yadda yadda yadda....I've been a fan of Vai and the Jem since the DLR days and always liked the 7VWH, but I can't stand gold hardware. I've had a few Jems over the years, but always liked the 7VWH. So, why spend $2500 for one, when you can make one for under a grand. Sans gold hardware. The body is made of Alder.....So, behold my progress.

[indeedido]

I also don't really care for scalloped frets, so I had a neck made sans scallops. Dig the tree of life. Three piece neck so it will resist warping better than a one piece. Strong! Maple back with slightly flamed maple center. I'm going to finish it with tung oil, that will make it nice and fast/smooth and also set off that flame. Fretboard is ebony.

[indeedido]

Hello sand sealer.....

[jhale667]

Very cool, will be interested to see the progress...post tons of pics!

[indeedido]

After several coats of sand sealer, time to sand and level.

[indeedido]

A lot of you may already know this, but I like to pass the knowledge I've picked up over the years for budding builders. Notice the block in the neck pocket. It is wise to mask off the neck pocket so you don't get a build up of paint in there and then your neck doesn't fit. Also about the block, put a small piece of a shim in there so that your "paint stick" doesn't get sealed against the body and ruin it. I have a stick with a hook on it so I can hang to dry and also handle it with ease.

[jhale667]

Installed the trem bushings pre-finish, I see...

Wood-to-wood contact in the neck pocket transfers string vibration better, also...makes the instrument more resonant.

[indeedido]

[indeedido]

Installed the trem bushings pre-finish, I see...

Yeah, I did a guitar a couple of years ago and put the bushings in after I painted it. Turned out to not be such a good idea as I cracked the finish trying to get them in. Also a good idea to be sure the trem fits into the route for a floating trem. So I installed the bushings and dry fitted everything. Nothing worse than having a body all painted up and shit doesn't fit. Grrrr





Dry fitting

[indeedido]

You know what makes the sanding process more fun??? Smoking a brisket while you sand. Both are long, tedious in process. I slow smoke my briskets with hickory for 8 hours. Here is half of it. Yum!!

[indeedido]

After the sealer coat is level, prime and paint.

[jhale667]

Yeah, I did a guitar a couple of years ago and put the bushings in after I painted it. Turned out to not be such a good idea as I cracked the finish trying to get them in. Also a good idea to be sure the trem fits into the route for a floating trem. So I installed the bushings and dry fitted everything. Nothing worse than having a body all painted up and shit doesn't fit. Grrrr

Exactly, exactly.
Another trick a woodworker buddy of mine taught me was to put a little wood glue on the bushings when you push them in for good; adds a little extra stability. They ain't going anywhere...lol

[GAR]

No guitar of mine has those stupid trempost bushings.

I want to know what the purpose of primer is on a woodgrained item like this, where there is no metal bonding to prime?

It is not necessary. I would go clear coat, then next coating straight to the color.

If it were a silver or gold metallic color, I would use a plain white as a guidecoat behind it. But I would never use primer.

The first time I used primer on a guitar I was 16, also the last time because by the time I was done, the finish was so thick it began cracks at the stress areas of hardware mounting and the neck glue joint.

I don't advise primer, no factory I've visited uses primer only a clear of heavy pigment such as a vinyl acetate lacquer sealer or in the case of most of the rest of the industry, catylized styrene clear that gets cured with hi-uv lights.

[GAR]

Notice the block in the neck pocket.

That sanding block is cleaner than the neck pocket.

[indeedido]

No guitar of mine has those stupid trempost bushings.

I want to know what the purpose of primer is on a woodgrained item like this, where there is no metal bonding to prime?

It is not necessary. I would go clear coat, then next coating straight to the color.

If it were a silver or gold metallic color, I would use a plain white as a guidecoat behind it. But I would never use primer.

The first time I used primer on a guitar I was 16, also the last time because by the time I was done, the finish was so thick it began cracks at the stress areas of hardware mounting and the neck glue joint.

I don't advise primer, no factory I've visited uses primer only a clear of heavy pigment such as a vinyl acetate lacquer sealer or in the case of most of the rest of the industry, catylized styrene clear that gets cured with hi-uv lights.

Do you know anything? Primer helps the paint to bond whether it be metal or wood. Also helps fill in any micro scratch in the sand sealer.

So you would clear coat it, then paint it? Moron.

At 16 I'm sure you figured everything out. It wasn't that your can of Krylon pooped out on you, it was the primer's fault. Sure, the primer was too thick.

[indeedido]

No guitar of mine has those stupid trempost bushings.

Because you have no guitars. Piss off and get out of my build thread. You offer nothing.

[jackassrock]

Not to be the one to agree with the ever unpopular Gar, but I think he's right. That's what some factories do, maybe even most. But I also know that in refinishing both a Hamer and an Ibanez in the past, they were both primed, whereas Fenders I've done weren't. The Hamer was a standard with one of those godawful factory flamejobs on it. Turns out it was painted over a decent flame maple top.

Although I honestly don't see how it would really make that much of a difference.

[indeedido]

Fair enough, I'll add this, primer is suggested for use over the sand sealer and before the color coat. A satisfactory finish can be accomplished without the use of a primer, but more color coats may be required. That is my school of thought. I feel like my projects that I've done look nicer with primer than without.

[Diamondjimi]

Primer is always a good thing ,like you said ,it fills in micro pitsand such. Plus primer sands down very easy and it's bonding properties for top coating with finish are valuable.
You're doin a great job "deeds" keep us posted.

[GAR]

Do you know anything? Primer helps the paint to bond whether it be metal or wood. Also helps fill in any micro scratch in the sand sealer.

Primer fills deep scratches from 80 to 220, turd.

Bare wood bodies get sanded at 80 grit, then scratches fine-sanded out with 180 before sealer and if you REALLY wanted to get nutty, polish the edges and barely go with the grain at 220 before the first clear coat.

Also, the brisket sauce does NOT mix well with the clear. But I recommend you drink the primer it's prolly yummier.

[letsrock]

Gar sounds jealous. Keep up the nice work on your guitar.
Keep us posted on the progress and the pics do your work justice.
Thanks for sharing.

John

[GAR]

.. primer is suggested for use over the sand sealer and before the color coat.

Primer is more brittle and less flexible than clear sealer. It is recommended only by paint supply counter knobs who want to sell you crap.

Until the early 80s we used primer on cars and trucks, then the industry came out with acrylic enamel sealer coatings which would apply even over bare metal that was degreased and etched.

This is wood, not rocket science. You're overprepping but that's okay because you probably don't understand it's more important to maintain as thin a coating on musical instruments as possible.

Seal the grain so it doesn't pop, shoot the color, shoot a light clear then buff. Or don't do clear.. it's not that complicated that you have to have primer - it's not METAL.

Get it? "Prime"="Prep" there's a purpose-statement in the name alone, that tells you what it is made to do.

Primer should never, ever be used on a new bare wood guitar surface or you invited the disaster of extra-thick film thicknesses that *loooove* to chip and crack for you in environmental and seasonal changes.

NO primer. None. Don't do it. Never do this!

[GAR]

Gar sounds jealous.
Thanks for sharing.

John

MOre to back my point: Strats from the 50s and 60s that started around 57 doing solid colors?

Did they EVER use a primer? No. They would fulfill a solid-color or custom color request by taking a sunburst off the rack and shoot straight over it.

There are lots of examples, and that was in the days paint was limited to lacquer before the new polyesters came out in the late 60's.

In fact, my 74 creme strat similar to Yngwies', the creme is the faded clear LACQUER topcoat, over a thin white layer, of LACQUER, over a heavy thick coating of LACQUER.

You could see in the worn bouts the layers coming thru clearly, as all these guitars do.

You'd think the factory would just wake up and use "primer" to fill the deep grains of ash wood.

[indeedido]

Why do you think I'm priming bare wood? It is not bare wood. The wood has been sealed with a laqcuer based sand sealer. I sand the primer so it is super thin. I even wet sand the paint to make it as flat and thin as possible and likewise with the clear coat. You don't know jack shit so don't tell me I don't understand a thick finish and its tonal properties.

So you think primer on bare wood only makes it thick? Primer on bare wood serves no protection of the grain. The wood grain is going to pop right through primer.

I know more about this than you can google, so piss off. You probably support a poly paint rather than lacquer because it is more durable. Poly is shit.

You seem to paint alot, or smell the fumes at least, how about posting some pics of your projects know-it-all. I wanna see that Charvette.

[ELVIS]

I admit, that's a difficult job...

That's why I stick with more rounded Strats...


Nice!

[ELVIS]

Yeah, i've painted solid colors directly over wood, but the wood absorbs the first three coats or so, but it still works...

Trial and error is the way I learn...

[Igosplut]

Until the early 80s we used primer on cars and trucks, then the industry came out with acrylic enamel sealer coatings which would apply even over bare metal that was degreased and etched.

Another wrong google search....

Sealers are primarily used to seal impurities from contaminants, incompatible paints/primers, ect from bleeding through and affecting the topcoats.They are NOT a replacement for primers, which besides aiding adhesion are fillers for small scratches and straightening panels. The newer hi-build primers par down even further the use of plastic filler and body putty (that was notorious for shrinking AND very popular years back) by not shrinking with thicker coats. And before you google again, I know there are products that claim to be both, but I've never seen any professionals use them

And the big thing in the 80s was Imron paint.

Try again coward..

[indeedido]

Automakers also skip another step you don't "have" to do. Color sand and wet sand the clear. Ever wonder why there is so much orange peel in the cars on the road? It is cheaper to clear and go. Skipping that step saves money. Sure you can skip it, but it doesn't look as good.

[indeedido]

I admit, that's a difficult job...

That's why I stick with more rounded Strats...


Nice!

Thanks! It is a lot harder than I anticipated. Getting paint into the lion's claw smoothly without running is a chore. Same for the lower horn where it is more flat than round. Can't say I want to do it again

[ELVIS]

But you can use primer, sealers or even paint to seal the wood. Let it dry a week or two and your topcoat will lay smooth as long as you sand the dried coats first...

[ELVIS]

And watch those flat corners...

Don't even sand them. Polish will do just fine...

Sand through those corners and you're back to square one...

[jhale667]

Because you have no guitars. Piss off and get out of my build thread. You offer nothing.

Seriously, GAyR...STFU.

The guy's doing a great job, and of course you can't resist the urge to cap on him with your holier-than-thou bullshit. It's getting old.

He's in America, he can paint it however the fuck he wants. Without a lecture from you, you no-picture-posting, plywood Charvette having, google-handicapped jackass.

And whining about the bushings? What a sissy. Plus it's not like you can even get the old-style posts anymore without special ordering them from Floyd Rose, dummy. You just hate on anyone that can build their own guitar.


Carry on, ideedido - by all means. Great work!

Gar sounds jealous

Yeah, well....the sun did come up this morning, didn't it? Same as it ever was.

[GAR]

Plus it's not like you can even get the old-style posts anymore without special ordering them from Floyd Rose...

Carvin store has 'em..

Allparts
Mojotone
WD Products

[GAR]

You probably support a poly paint rather than lacquer because it is more durable.

Name a finish, gun or pressure system and i've probably used it so just assume I have and do not ask.

I like the features of different finishes for different reasons, finish is finish if it sells a guitar.

But then right there, I always built original guitars for sale not knockoffs because I have more skills than an integrator assembling a kit guitar like this.

[Diamondjimi]

But you can use primer, sealers or even paint to seal the wood. Let it dry a week or two and your topcoat will lay smooth as long as you sand the dried coats first...

If someone chooses to prime directly on the wood it has to be an alkyd based primer. two coats should suffice with a minimum 24hrs cure and sanding between coats.
Primer dries and cures considerably faster than finish coats based on its solvent content and curing agents acting as an accelerant.

[letsrock]

FYI

Gar is 250 years old. If he actually did 10% of the rebuilds/repairs/fixed/restores he claims thats a full career.
Not to mention other areas like cars, IT work the list goes on.

And if he isnt 250 years old than i'm sure he is a robot, therefore making him a tool.

[Diamondjimi]

You catch on quick!

You forgot to mention the fact that GARfuckle has (in the past) enjoyed urinating on you boys...

[GAR]

If someone chooses to prime directly on the wood it has to be an alkyd based primer. two coats should suffice with a minimum 24hrs cure and sanding between coats.
Primer dries and cures considerably faster than finish coats based on its solvent content and curing agents acting as an accelerant.

You keep painting your houses, let's leave the guitar finishes to those who actually spray stuff..

alkyd=google goggles

[indeedido]

I'll say this much more about the primer in case another DIYer wants me to lay some knowledge their way. Why do I spray primer and not jump straight to the paint? Well, for a couple of reasons: Primer helps to bond the paint to the body, like I mentioned above. Without it, you may find that your paint is doing strange things as it hits the sealer. The primer tends to make the paint stick nicely, eliminating any “funky” patches in your paint. Primer is also good to use because it allows you to see any flaws that you might’ve missed during the sealing stage. The primer acts like a sealer too, because it fills any leftover grain and/or any little dings or holes that may still be there as well as micro scratches. It can be sanded just like the sealer. Now, I'm moving on. Train back on the tracks.

[indeedido]

Contrary to what the a fore mentioned tool thinks, this is hardly a kit guitar. This is a custom made body and neck. Feel free to call it a clone if you like. I just happened to like the 7VWH, but not the gold.

Here are some "pieces" I've acquired on ebay over the last year. Dimarzio Evolutions in all three positions. I've been able to score the same Ibanez parts as on the production model as well quite inexpensively on the bay. Including a Lo Pro Edge. All hardware is cosmo black, Ibanez's chromed black or grey.