The Latest Public Option Bamboozle, and How to Recognize the Real Thing

[FORD]

The Latest Public Option Bamboozle, and How to Recognize the Real Thing
June 11, 2009, 10:50AM

Here's the latest contortion from Senate Dems trying to win over a few Republicans to a "public option:" Let nonprofits create health-care cooperatives, and call them the public option. Kent Conrad came up with this bamboozle. Finance chair Baucus is impressed, and some Republicans -- even Grassley -- seem interested. Watch your wallets.

Nonprofit health-care cooperatives won't have any real bargaining leverage to get lower prices because they'll be too small and too numerous. Pharma and Insurance know they can roll them. That's why the Conrad compromise is getting a good reception from across the aisle, just as Olympia Snowe's "trigger" (whereby no public option until some time down the pike, and only if Pharma and Insurance don't bring down and extend coverage a tad) is also gaining traction.

The truth is that there's only one "public option" that will truly bring down costs and premiums -- one that's national in scale and combines its bargaining power with Medicare, and is allowed to negotiate lower drug prices and lower doctor and hospital fees. And that's precisely what Pharma and Insurance detest, for exactly the same reason.

Whatever it's called -- public option or chopped liver -- it has to be able to squeeze Pharma, Insurance, and the rest of the medical-industrial complex. And the more likely it is to squeeze them, the more they'll fight it. And the greater the opposition from Republicans, and from Dems who either believe any bill has to have some Republican support or who have sold themselves out to the medical biggies.

As long as single payer is off the table, then we need a real public option. Don't be fooled by labels. Demand the real thing.

The Latest Public Option Bamboozle, and How to Recognize the Real Thing | Robert Reich's Blog

[FORD]

Conrad Co-ops: Not. Fucking. Acceptable.

[GAR]

Pharma works with Insurers to keep the price of meds high.

Insurers work with Pharma to keep the price of premiums high.

I think the Democrats are high for letting this facade play this far out. They need to give it up, they're already defecit spending as it is.

[FORD]

I want this thread to be a serious discussion, because the situation IS serious.

We need a real health care system in this fucking country, and if the corporatist bastards steal it from us this time, we will probably never get another chance, especially if they are able to put some bullshit scam like Conrad's co-ops in the media spin as "reform". Or mandatory corporate RomneyHillarycare.

Its as simple as this: Single Payer is the best solution because it creates the largest pool (in this case everyone) thereby creating the lowest risk, by average, and as a result, the lowest cost.

Good for the economy? You bet your ass. And that's just the upfront cost. Even more so when you add in a healthier population. Less sick days, etc.

I'd like to hear from our Canadian & European friends here as well. What's good about your system, and what (if anything) sucks about it?

And I want to hear this from those who actually LIVE outside the US. Not from Assjockeys surfing right wing propaganda sites on library computers.

[letsrock]

Pharma works with Insurers to keep the price of meds high.

Insurers work with Pharma to keep the price of premiums high.

I think the Democrats are high for letting this facade play this far out. They need to give it up, they're already defecit spending as it is.

there has been defecit spending before any member of this site was born.

[FORD]

Kicking this thread up again, because Mike Malloy got me fired up about this whole thing again tonight, and I believe it's time to fucking face reality.

This country will not survive if we do not do what the rest of the fucking modern world did in the years immediately following World War II, and fucking put a single payer system together.

Fuck the corporate profits, and with all due respect to Dr. Howard Dean - whom I agree with 90% of the time - fuck the "public option" compromise, even an authentic one like he or Bernie Sanders are proposing (in separate plans)

Let's have some input here from our foreign friends. And from our vets, in regards to the VA system. And maybe ZahZoo can talk about Medicare?

Seriously, the time is NOW. The economy's fucked, employer provided insurance plans aren't worth a shit to the unemployed. Can anybody give me a valid reason (as opposed to a lame ass right wing talking point excuse) why we do not do this NOW. Or for that matter, why we didn't do it decades ago?

[Nitro Express]

Big Pharma and Insurance extort us. I say we extort them. We kidnap their top executives and demand they lower prices or else.

[Nitro Express]

Employer provided health plans aren't worth shit if you are employed. Man. My first job out of college provided killer insurance benefits. I never even thought about health care in those days. I had 100% dental and the whole shabang. Now minimal coverage for a family that doesn't cover shit is a payment on a nice home a month.

[FORD]

Employer provided health plans aren't worth shit if you are employed. Man. My first job out of college provided killer insurance benefits. I never even thought about health care in those days. I had 100% dental and the whole shabang. Now minimal coverage for a family that doesn't cover shit is a payment on a nice home a month.

Well, that's another point. Some health plans are better than others. But they shouldn't be. Everyone should have the same access to health care.

Whether Warren Buffet or the greeter at the local WalMart, there shouldn't be a difference.

[hideyoursheep]

I can't add to the discussion because you're saying it all already.

All true.

[Big Train]

Why not just put Wal Mart in charge of it, they are rolling back drug prices nicely. That's a good example for you. The largest retail corporation in the world is nicking their prices a lot on their less profitable drugs. The question is, really, is the government going to do anywhere near as well in terms of efficiency and cost as Sam Walton's outfit? I kinda doubt it.

[FORD]

WalMart is doing the old "loss leader" trick with their cheap prescription scam. If they can pull you in with a $4.00 co-pay on pharmaceuticals, maybe you'll buy everything else there too? No doubt they're getting subsidized by big pharma to make up for it.

About the only positive thing I could see about a WalMart health care system would be, if they imported their doctors from China like they do everything else, then at least you would have some doctors here that believed in "old school" medicine, rather than pushing toxic chemicals.

But then the corporate-compromised FDA would never allow that.

[Seshmeister]

The absolute undeniable fact which they even admit is that pharmaceutical companies charge what the market will sustain, NOT what it costs to develop, market and make the drugs.

You are getting ripped off. Also you are constantly over prescribed and over tested. So you end up say getting an MRI for toothache or whatever. The market is not operating properly and so people in the US directly and indirectly pay far more for healthcare than other Western countries which coupled with insane 'defense' expenditure means that you are finding it harder and harder to compete. This means as mentioned in the other thread you end up having to work much longer hours with less vacations.

[FORD]

Can't say I ever had an MRI for a toothache... but I did have to go to the ER with an impacted & infected wisdom tooth (which I didn't even know was a wisdom tooth until afterwards) because I was uninsured at the time.

Probably actually spent a whole 10 minutes with a doctor. They prescribed antibiotics and Rush Limbaugh's favorite happy pills and scheduled an appointment at their dental clinic to get the wisdom teeth yanked.

I don't remember exactly what the bill for that was, but it was probably around $300 or so (not counting the prescriptions or the subsequent tooth yanking). Or in other words, $30 a minute.

Not that I paid it..... there was a reason I was uninsured at the time. I was also unemployed.

[WACF]

WalMart is doing the old "loss leader" trick with their cheap prescription scam. If they can pull you in with a $4.00 co-pay on pharmaceuticals, maybe you'll buy everything else there too? No doubt they're getting subsidized by big pharma to make up for it.

About the only positive thing I could see about a WalMart health care system would be, if they imported their doctors from China like they do everything else, then at least you would have some doctors here that believed in "old school" medicine, rather than pushing toxic chemicals.

But then the corporate-compromised FDA would never allow that.

In North America we seem more focused on curing than preventing.

[FORD]

In North America we seem more focused on curing than preventing.

And even then, it's usually curing the symptoms more than the actual cause.

[Kristy]

You are getting ripped off. Also you are constantly over prescribed and over tested....

But whose fault is that? Wish I could find the link to a study that was done back in 2006 where it calculated that over 80% of people with health insurance who saw a doctor for a regular routine checkup ended up leaving their office with a prescription of some sort or another. That's over 80% freely choosing to be drugged. On days like this, I'm glad I don't have any health insurance.

This could cut two ways in that the public have been so brainwashed into believing popping a pill with make them feel better, be better or live longer for our M.D.'s are all the too willing to write you a script (whether insurance will pay for it or not). For the person with the prescription there is little value for their health when it is not necessary but for the doctor well, there are stock benefits to be had for each one they write and what I call legal payoffs in the form of vacation plans, stock option dividends in that particular pharmaceutical company, gift certificates, even free pens! There has been little talk in curbing this behavior other than passing laws that physicians cannot own a pharmacy (did you know that?) for fear of conflict of interest and meet with drug reps only a certain amount of times in year. Wow, is that ever keeping the health system in check or what!?

Our bloated health care system is a profiteering free market that bases itself upon suffering and sickness of the population who can afford to serve it. Really, that's what it is, how it operates and feeds itself. Saying it's a rip off is a little weak - it's fucking legalized racketeering. Rethuglicans (along with most democrats) don't give a shit if you live or die or lose your house to a ridiculous hospital bill as long as the health system remains a viable free market (mainly for their own interest) otherwise they'll throw shit in your face, brand you a "socialist" and tell you the quality of care will be wounded (to say a pun). And in return our corrupted politicians receive insurance and pharmaceutical pledge contributions for campaign re-elections.

Then again, I don't know how you can have quality health care and make it affordable/free to everyone. If Obama pulls this off then he'll have to do it by finding some sort of middle ground between maintaining a standard caliber of making health care and profit feasible for all. Yeah, good luck.

[Seshmeister]

Can't say I ever had an MRI for a toothache... but I did have to go to the ER with an impacted & infected wisdom tooth (which I didn't even know was a wisdom tooth until afterwards) because I was uninsured at the time.
.

I didn't just pull that out of the air. My US business partner had to take his girlfriend into the ER last year with really bad toothache. She has one of those part insurance deals (can't remember the correct name) whereby she has to pay 30% or something. She ended up having an MRI done and it cost a few thousand dollars.

Outside of a House episode this is ludicrous.

There is one flip side to all of this crap though which is cancer.

US cancer survival rates are much better than over here and it seems to be because of early diagnosis. The reason for the early diagnosis is maybe partly cultural in that you are all a bunch of sissies that run to the doctor all the time.

The other reason which is often put forward though is the money thing. Because our healthcare is almost completely free or at least the cost is hidden from us via taxation then ironically we are less inclined to take advantage of it. If you pay $400 a month and then at 40 you get offered as part of the deal a big check up by your family doctor you are far more likely to go because you think 'about time I got something for all this fucking money'. If you get offered the same thing here you might think 'fucking government is hassling me about my health, I think I'll give it a miss.'

Strange but true...

Cheers!

[Nickdfresh]

Employer provided health plans aren't worth shit if you are employed. Man. My first job out of college provided killer insurance benefits. I never even thought about health care in those days. I had 100% dental and the whole shabang. Now minimal coverage for a family that doesn't cover shit is a payment on a nice home a month.

Or family plans are frigging exorbitant...

[Nickdfresh]

Why not just put Wal Mart in charge of it, they are rolling back drug prices nicely. That's a good example for you. The largest retail corporation in the world is nicking their prices a lot on their less profitable drugs. The question is, really, is the government going to do anywhere near as well in terms of efficiency and cost as Sam Walton's outfit? I kinda doubt it.

They could if Medicare was actually allowed to negotiate with drug companies for their best price. But of course, with the pharma-lobby this has been prevented thus far...

[Seshmeister]

I just got an online quote for family health insurance and I would be well over $1000 a month.

I can see why everyone is getting so pissed off.

[Nitro Express]

If something isn't done some person who is dying and has nothing to lose with make a flame thrower in their garage and show up to a hospital and torch the place to make a point. Why not? They system is saying your life isn't worth saving because you can't afford the obscene prices. Well fuck you system! If I can't have healthcare then I'm burning the whole fucking hospital down. I'm dying so who gives a fuck anymore?

I mean we are headed for "Off With Their Heads!" territory as soon as the public gets squeezed harder. History is full of such.

[Nitro Express]

The mainline problem in healthcare and the financial system is rampant greed. We always had a free market healthcare system and in the past, it worked. In fact, in the 1960's pharmacutical drugs were so inexpensive they were not covered in Medicade when President Johnson signed it into existance. So yeah, the drug prices are one huge part of the problem. The other one is liability insurance. Plus. When people had good insurance, they abused it. Some people would stay in the hospital for nothing just because their insurance paid for it. Now I hate hospitals and avoid them like the plague. I can't imagine going to one jut to sit in the room and watch TV because the insurance pays for it.

[Nitro Express]

In North America we seem more focused on curing than preventing.

At our local hospital they are making a big push to educate people on diabetes. In fact, you can sign up for a free consultation with a nutritionist to help you change your eating and exercise habits. Diabetes is an epidemic in the US and a huge killer. It's a lack of exercise and a huge intake of sugar. So some hospitals are trying to be preventative in some areas. One problem is the dumb ass public. They demand the drugs from their doctor and choose to be pathetic fat asses who will have health problems due to it.

[FORD]

Say what you will about Ed Schultz, but he's been on top of the health reform issue both on his radio and TV show. And Bernie Sanders..... well, if only we had about 15 clones of him to replace the Blue Balled cowards who claim to be on our side, but rarely vote that way..............

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[FORD]

I gotta say this again... It's a goddamn travesty that Bob Reich does not have a cabinet position right now. He should have been on the economic team, but right now he'd be good on the health care side also.......

Memo to the President: What You Must Do To Save Universal Health Care
June 19, 2009, 6:39PM

Mr. President:

Momentum for universal health care is slowing dramatically on Capitol Hill. Moderates are worried, Republicans are digging in, and the medical-industrial complex is firing up its lobbying and propaganda machine.

But, as you know, the worst news came days ago when the Congressional Budget Office weighed in with awful projections about how much the leading healthcare plans would cost and how many Americans would still be left out in the cold. Yet these projections didn't include the savings that a public option would generate by negotiating lower drug prices, doctor fees, and hospital costs, and forcing private insurers to be more competitive. Projecting the future costs of universal health care without including the public option is like predicting the number of people who will get sunburns this summer if nobody is allowed to buy sun lotion. Of course the costs of universal health care will be huge if the most important way of controlling them is left out of the calculation.

If you want to save universal health care, you must do several things, and soon:

1. Go to the nation. You must build public support by forcefully making the case for universal health care everywhere around the country. The latest Wall Street Journal/NBC poll shows that three out of four Americans want universal health care. But the vast majority don't know what's happening on the Hill, don't know how much money the medical-industrial lobbies are spending to defeat it, and have no idea how much demagoguery they're about to be exposed to. You must tell them. And don't be reluctant to take on those vested interests directly. Name names. They've decided to fight you. You must fight them.

2. Be LBJ. So far, Lyndon Johnson has been the only president to defeat American Medical Association and the rest of the medical-industrial complex. He got Medicare and Medicaid enacted despite their cries of "socialized medicine" because he knocked heads on the Hill. He told Congress exactly what he wanted, cajoled and threatened those who resisted, and counted noses every hour until he had the votes he needed. When you're not on the road, you need to be twisting congressional arms and drawing a line in the sand. Be tough.

3. Forget the Republicans. Forget bipartisanship. Universal health care can pass with 51 votes. You can get 51 votes if you give up on trying to persuade a handful of Republicans to cross over. Eight year ago George W. Bush passed his huge tax cut, mostly for the wealthy, by wrapping it in an all-or-nothing reconciliation measure and daring Democrats to vote against it. You should do the same with health care.

4. Insist on a real public option. It's the lynchpin of universal health care. Don't accept Kent Conrad's ersatz public option masquerading as a "healthcare cooperative." Cooperatives won't have the authority, scale, or leverage to negotiate low prices and keep private insurers honest.

5. Demand that taxes be raised on the wealthy to ensure that all Americans get affordable health care. At the rate healthcare costs are rising, not even a real public option will hold down costs enough to make health care affordable to most American families in years to come. So you'll need to tax the wealthy. Don't back down on your original proposal to limit their deductions. And support a cap on how much employee-provided health care can be provided tax free. (Yes, you opposed this during your campaign. But you have no choice but to reverse yourself on this.) These are the only two big pots of money.

6. Put everything else on hold. As important as they are, your other agenda items -- financial reform, home mortgage mitigation, cap-and-trade legislation -- pale in significance relative to universal health care. By pushing everything at once, you take the public's mind off the biggest goal, diffuse your energies, blur your public message, and fuel the demagogues who say you're trying to take over the private sector.

You have to win this.

Your obedient servant, RBR

Memo to the President: What You Must Do To Save Universal Health Care | Robert Reich's Blog

[FORD]

Dr. Dean schools Douche Gregory on what a "public option" means.....

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