Effing club owners can suck it!

[rocknrolldork]

A club owner just said he'd pay us "$250. That's my firm price." What a fucking dick. He has to be high as hell to think we'd play his shitty little bar for that. All the schooling. All the years of practice. All the years of being a freaking total dork for this? FAK! Production alone costs $225/night. I can't believe I spent an hour talking to that douche bag. Club owners always something for nothing. It's a shame that he'll probably find some sorry asses to play for that amount or less. Lame. [/rant]

[LoungeMachine]

It's called a Free Market.

You're free to say no to his price, and find somewhere else to play.

Ever consider what your worth is to a club? Do you have a loyal following? Do you draw well? Or do you just show up hoping the club is full?

Are other venues throwing bigger numbers at you because you're so much better than your competition? If so, why give a shit about his offer? If not, ask yourself why.

I've been on both sides of this argument for years. Played clubs of every level, and worked on the clubs' behalf.

But you come off as a whiney douche by thinking that because you spent "years practicing" and he only offers you $250. Sac up.

In a free market, venues will fall all over themselves to throw money and hospitality at the bands that have a good draw. Those that dont, make $250. Sometimes less.

Blaming the club owner for offering you less than you think you deserve is just stupid.

[LoungeMachine]

A club owner just said he'd pay us "$250. That's my firm price." What a fucking dick. [/rant]

Yes, you are.

Gee, a businessman set his price, and conveyed to you it is not open for negotiation. It is your choice to accept or decline.

Wow, what a fucking dick he is......

[katie]

The club owner couldn't give a shit how many hours you may have spent learning our craft.

All he/she cares about is how many punters can you put in his club on a wet Monday night as this is a business dude, and this guy has to make a profit too or else you will have NO venue to play in...

If you can fill it then renegotiate when he asks YOU about a 2nd booking.

Do you have a large following? (Don't answer that)

I know a little bit about this as my husband used to work for I.T.B agency London.

This must be the first post where I actually agree with Lounge.

The times they are a changing....

[lesfunk]

i suggest you play somewhere else...

[sadaist]

Isn't it better to be out playing in front of people than sitting at home that night complaining that you weren't going to get paid enough? Hell, I'm sure there are lots of talented bands that would pay the club $250 just for the chance to play in front of a crowd. Get their music out there. Build a fan base. Did you get into music to make money...or play music in front of others? Play live and have fun doing what you love?

[rocknrolldork]

I play originals to be off the couch on the cheap. 45-60 minutes of original is worth it just to play. I play covers to supplement my income. No other reason. 4 hours of covers for $12.50 after production sucks. Dude traded emails so he knew how much the bottom dollar was and still wanted to book us. He calls a meeting and bullshits me for a little over an hour and says, $250 is the firm price and he wants full production. I'm not hurting for gigs, I just hate the facts that 1) he took time that could have been used to book other shows 2) club owners want entertainment for nothing, 3) a band will eventually sucker up and take that crappy pay which lets bar owners think they can pay any band that amount. Bunch of crap.

[sadaist]

Well, the club owner does sound like a dick. But imagine how many punks approach these guys daily for gigs. It would drive me crazy.

[LoungeMachine]

Well, the club owner does sound like a dick. .

How so?

You know nothing of the club capacity, overhead, competition, or regular clientele.

$250 may be insult-low.

Or it may be a fucking GIFT.

Whichever it is, he's allowed to set his price without strangers calling him a dick.

The THREAD STARTER on the other hand comes off as a DICK in my book for the way he whined about it without knowing/giving specifics.



Fucking hack bands who think they're the shit crack me up.

[lesfunk]

If the club pays $250.00 and I really want to play there, I'll do a smaller group. Normally I don't leave the house for less than $125-150.00 a man . If it's a fun gig like doing Sabbath covers or cool originals , i'd make an exception.
Summer's here and although the volume of work is down, we still are busy with weddings which are where I make my money anyway.
I'd be happy to just play weddings and privates. Then I could put together a killer Sabbath, Zeppelin and or Purple band and hit the clubs 2 or three times a month. I'd do that shit for free.

[thome]

Take the 2fitty and tell him you want a buck for the band off every $5.00 cover charge.

I would suspect 250 a night per band member is what is needed these days to motivate.

Can't find it, hit the road..?

Good Luck this world needs rock and roll.

[rocknrolldork]

If the club pays $250.00 and I really want to play there, I'll do a smaller group. Normally I don't leave the house for less than $125-150.00 a man . If it's a fun gig like doing Sabbath covers or cool originals , i'd make an exception.
Summer's here and although the volume of work is down, we still are busy with weddings which are where I make my money anyway.
I'd be happy to just play weddings and privates. Then I could put together a killer Sabbath, Zeppelin and or Purple band and hit the clubs 2 or three times a month. I'd do that shit for free.

The last month has been slow, but we have all taken vacations. The last 1/2 of the year is almost every weekend. Which is good.

100% agreed about the Zep, Sabbath, Purple stuff.

[sadaist]

How so?

You know nothing of the club capacity, overhead, competition, or regular clientele.

$250 may be insult-low.

Or it may be a fucking GIFT.

Whichever it is, he's allowed to set his price without strangers calling him a dick.

The THREAD STARTER on the other hand comes off as a DICK in my book for the way he whined about it without knowing/giving specifics.



Fucking hack bands who think they're the shit crack me up.

Absolutely correct. I was just going off the later description of the club owner seemingly leading him on for an hour. That's why I said "sounds like" rather than flat out calling him a dick. But I've never been a club owner or had to book bands, so I don't know squat about that side of the biz or what kind of attitudes are common.

But like I said, everyone I've ever known in a band would love the chance to play even if it cost them money. In fact, a lot of times it did. No set fee, just a cut of the door charge & then only if the customers said they are there to see you. The club paid based on how many check marks were in each bands column. Hell, we all had the times of our lives even if we were losing money.

And yes, we were all hacks in hack bands....well, except one guy who played guitar. Dang he was good. But the fun we had I wouldn't trade for the world.

[Diamondjimi]

It's called "paying your dues". Every band does. Mine does.
Some gigs pay good, some not so good. The key words are exposure and following...

If a band is connecting with the club patrons in a positive way ,good things will follow...

[rocknrolldork]

It's called "paying your dues". Every band does. Mine does.
Some gigs pay good, some not so good. The key words are exposure and following...

If a band is connecting with the club patrons in a positive way ,good things will follow...

We all paid our dues a long time ago. Things are good now. The dude knows that and just straight up wasted my time. I do agree with you that all bands need to pay their dues. Also appreciate the positive words.

Fucking hack bands who think they're the shit crack me up.

Never said we are the shit, but we are worth what we charge for what we do. It's a covers for $$$ band. It is what it is.

You may have booked some bands and/or played in some bands, but it sounds to me like you never made any type of living off of it. Especially from the band side of it.

Hack board users who like to give people a hard time behind a keyboard crack me up.

[rocknrolldork]

Also......... Most club owners are scumbags anyway.

[LoungeMachine]

You may have booked some bands and/or played in some bands, but it sounds to me like you never made any type of living off of it. Especially from the band side of it.

You're fucking clueless, dude.

And NO ONE goes into a negotiation without stating your price UPFRONT. So if you sat there for an hour, it's because you're an idiot, not the club owner's fault.

I STILL make a living from both sides of it. Dont believe me, ask around.

If you didnt do your research, and didnt already know what the club pays, or you didnt tell the owner upfront what your minimum fee was, then you have no business being the band's booker. Turn it over to someone with a fucking clue.

1] You are a shitty negotiator

2] You dont like the answer you get

3] You whine about it HERE thinking people will all rally around you and tell you what a dick the owner was.

[LoungeMachine]

A club owner just said he'd pay us "$250. That's my firm price." What a fucking dick.

Maybe you suck? Maybe you were in the wrong club?

Maybe he lowballed you to get you the fuck out of his face?

. He has to be high as hell to think we'd play his shitty little bar for that. ]

Why are you spending an HOUR trying to get booked into a shitty little bar? Fucking desperate for gigs?

A

All the schooling. All the years of practice. All the years of being a freaking total dork for this? FAK!

Doesnt make you worth more than $250, moron. Being good, and drawing BIG crowds does. You skipped the Business Course I take it....

Club owners always something for nothing.

Bullshit statement.

Maybe you get paid "nothing" because you're worth "nothing". Other bands in your market are getting paid BIG bucks. Why not you?

A It's a shame that he'll probably find some sorry asses to play for that amount or less. Lame. [/rant]

It's a shittly little bar according to you, so why do you care if some hungry band wants to take his $250 to hone their stage chops?


You spend an hour trying to get booked into a shitty little bar, get pissed when you're offered less than YOU think you're worth, and then whine HERE about it....

Who is the dick again? The bar owner?

[LoungeMachine]

Also......... Most club owners are scumbags anyway.

LMAO

Gee, can't imagine why you're not making the big bucks.

[hideyoursheep]

Fucking hack bands who think they're the shit crack me up.

That's it right there.

It's all about what you're worth to the venue owner, NOT what YOU think you're worth.

Did I mention I was lucky enough to get 1500 and I thought that was too much.....Other times you'd play for free, or a benifit of some sort....

Fat times, lean times..

That's entertainment.

[hideyoursheep]

Hack board users who like to give people a hard time behind a keyboard crack me up.

Hack band member who think they are better than they really are crack ME up.

You're the reason I quit some of those bands. Big on ego, small on talent.

And a set of shitty originals nobody wants to hear.

You'd be better off going back to that club owner for 250 carrying 2 tuntables under your arm and asking for a DJ gig. He might give you 300.

[hideyoursheep]

Now if you wanna bitch about getting stiffed after a gig because you played something on the club owner's "No-Play List", then I can relate.

[hideyoursheep]

The club owner couldn't give a shit how many hours you may have spent learning our craft.

All he/she cares about is how many punters can you put in his club on a wet Monday night as this is a business dude, and this guy has to make a profit too or else you will have NO venue to play in...

If you can fill it then renegotiate when he asks YOU about a 2nd booking.

Do you have a large following? (Don't answer that)

I know a little bit about this as my husband used to work for I.T.B agency London.

This must be the first post where I actually agree with Lounge.

The times they are a changing....

Allright....who are you and what have you done with katie?

[hideyoursheep]

You may have booked some bands and/or played in some bands, but it sounds to me like you never made any type of living off of it. Especially from the band side of it.

WHOAH!



NOBODY talks to Kip Winger like THAT!!!

[ELVIS]

rocknrolldork...

You got your name right...

But if you really want to get exposure, playing for FREE is acceptable in my book...i've done it, and it ends up costing you time and money...it sucks on one level, but to be playing for any crowd is better than not...

But if you're good, the crowd will help dictate a fair wage for your work...

You might suck, who knows. $250 might be a lot for you in the eyes of the owner...

Prove yourself in the area and the cost of the club will go up as you're helping business...

Otherwise, play for free and hope for the best...

And practise your ass off!

[LoungeMachine]

Hack board users who like to give people a hard time behind a keyboard crack me up.

You think THIS is giving you a "hard time" ???

really?

Did you really think you could post this douche nozzle of a thread, and get nothing but applause? really?

That explains alot right there.

[rocknrolldork]

LOL. Whatever dudes. LOL.

[LoungeMachine]

LOL. Whatever dudes. LOL.

Excellent retort.

[Hardrock69]

If the band is not hurting for gigs, then there is no reason to bitch if ONE club owner cannot afford the band's asking price.

To call the club owner a dick for stating what he will pay is the mark of a fucking dick!

Don't come here bitching because you are incompetent when it comes to negotiating a gig, or because you want to cry because a club owner cannot or will not pay more than
$250.

Did you expect we would agree with you? You have no idea how many of us are professional level musicians, or who are now working regular day jobs after having logged decades playing gigs at all levels in the industry.

IF your band is worth a shit, and you draw people, eventually the club owner may regret offering you so little, and raise his offer.

Thing is, every club is different. Not just the 'club', but the management, their own particular brand of 'business model', the clientele, etc.

If I were that club owner, and you had never played my club before, I would offer you a shit wage too, because you are an unknown quantity.

He has no way of knowing how much money he will make in HIS club if you play there.

That is why he is in business....to make money!

Sure if you have a rabid following, you always pack clubs, and the club owner knows that he is likely to make money, then the club owner may want you to play there, but EVEN IF THE ABOVE IS TRUE, I would STILL offer you a shit wage on your first night, because it is not ALL about how well you do onstage, it is about how you conduct yourself offstage as well!

Too many musicians do not understand....if you are in a band, and you are playing gigs and you expect to get paid for them, then you are NOT just a musician, you are a BUSINESSMAN SELLING A PRODUCT!

Your 'product' is your performance, and it also is your attitude, and the way you conduct yourself when doing business with the club owner.
It is the way you treat the audience during the gig. It is the way you conduct yourself when dealing with the employees of the club, the bartenders, the wait-staff, hell even the doorman and bouncers (especially the bouncers).

If you act like a jerk to anyone, then they will treat you the same way!

You should have accepted his offer.


A) If your band is good you may have converted some new fans to your following. B) Hey, it is a fucking gig! Sure the wages on that first night would not even be gas money, but hell, it is a first gig! C)If on that first night, you have a good crowd, good crowd response, and the club makes good money at the door and the bar, then you go to the club owner afterwards and ask him if he wants to book a return engagement.
If he says yes, and he obviously made money on that first night, you tell him you will book a return engagement if he pays you more, as you have at least proven to him that you are worth booking again, and if he has made some coin, and you have explained to him the costs of the 'full production', he may be willing to give you that raise. Surely if you are friendly and he likes you as a person, he may be willing to pay you a little more just to help you out.

You must also realize that there is more than one way to skin a cat! If he wants to give you a straight wage, that is all well and good, but counter-offer....say ok we will accept $250 if you let us have 50% of the door! If you have a good following, you might make more off the door than his offer of $250. Or you can say, ok $250 OR 50% of the door, whichever is greater. That way you make $250 no matter what, with the possibility of making more.

Not only that, but do you have merchandise for sale? If not, why not? Playing a new club, means an audience who may not have seen you before, which means potential customers for your merchandise.

Keep in mind that if you suck like this band, nobody is going to buy your merch, and you should consider the $250 offer a Godsend:

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Do NOT go in their expecting to be paid top wage when you have never played there before. That is stupid.

When he offered you $250 did you act insulted and call him an asshole and stomp out of his office?

One thing you clearly need to learn is PROFESSIONALISM.

If he does not offer you what you need, then you say "Thanks, if you change your mind and will pay us what we need, give us a call".

If he liked his encounter with you, you never know what will happen. A few months later he may have a band cancel at the last minute, on an weekend where he historically makes a ton of money, and he may be desperate for a fill-in act, and would be willing to pay more. If he remembers his encounter with you and it was pleasant, he may call. If he remembers you are a fucking dick, you will not get a call, and you can consider that club a closed door.

Now, consider this a learning experience. Not just from the encounter with the club owner, but from reading the responses to this thread.

You might even consider going back and telling him you will accept his offer.

IF the gig sucks for whatever reason, then you do not have to go back.

If the gig goes well, you may have a valuable regular gig to fill in any holes in your booking schedule.

[Kristy]

I used to work in a music instrument store and therefore knew many a talented musician who played in the most gawd-awful dives imaginable for little pay and not one of them whined like the little self-centered ego bitch you are. $250 is more than a fair price even in these days and times. Just be glad you have a place to play at all but I must say, if your band is anything like your attitude enjoy the $250 while it last.

[Guitar Shark]

LoungeMachine and katie THANKING each other for their posts?

Is this the Twilight Zone?

[Hardrock69]

Is this the Twilight Zone?

Well, they were not thanking each other exactly...

If nothing else, Katie would thank him for being someone she could fantasize about as she was being fucked in the ass by a German Shepherd, and he would thank her for nothing...

[Anonymous]

They probably clicked the wrong buttons. Happens all the time.

And Rocknrolldork... you sound exactly like the type of person everyone should steer away from.

It's you, you, YOU, and then you and you.

Yes, I'm sure you're VERY talented. And that you'll change the world with your message.

Just not at $250.00, eh?

Cheers! :bottle:

[katie]

I wish Katie would give me some attention too.

[chefcraig]

LoungeMachine and katie THANKING each other for their posts?

Is this the Twilight Zone?

You do realize that the SciFi channel is running a TZ marathon all weekend, right? They started yesterday, and even featured some of the color ones from the first revival that lasted from 1985–1989.

[rocknrolldork]

LOL. Uh... Ok guys and gals. LOL.

You all got more worked up over this than I was when I posted the thread. Cracks my ass up.

[ELVIS]

But you still wont play "his shitty little bar" for $250 big ones ??

[ELVIS]

I mean dude...

Elvis was told "Boy, you’d better keep driving that truck," AFTER he had two singles on the charts...

They basically got paid gas money to make it to the next gig in the very early days...


What if this guy who OWNS his shitty little bar tells you $500 and six people show up ??

What if you were the shitty little bar owner ??

[hideyoursheep]

LOL. Uh... Ok guys and gals. LOL.

You all got more worked up over this than I was when I posted the thread.

Worked up? No.

Cuntfused? Yes.

If you're band is "worth more" , try going somewhere else. No problem.

[ELVIS]

LOL. Uh... Ok guys and gals. LOL.

You all got more worked up over this than I was when I posted the thread. Cracks my ass up.

You backpedal better than a Tupac wannabe...

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