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Thread: US Intell: No Nukes in Iran

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    US Intell: No Nukes in Iran

    Intelligence Agencies Say No New Nukes in Iran
    Secret updates to White House challenge European and Israeli assessments.

    By Mark Hosenball |
    Sep 16, 2009

    The U.S. intelligence community is reporting to the White House that Iran has not restarted its nuclear-weapons development program, two counterproliferation officials tell NEWSWEEK. U.S. agencies had previously said that Tehran halted the program in 2003.

    The officials, who asked for anonymity when discussing sensitive information, said that U.S. intelligence agencies have informed policymakers at the White House and other agencies that the status of Iranian work on development and production of a nuclear bomb has not changed since the formal National Intelligence Estimate (NIE) on Iran's "Nuclear Intentions and Capabilities" in November 2007. Public portions of that report stated that U.S. intelligence agencies had "high confidence" that, as of early 2003, Iranian military units were pursuing development of a nuclear bomb, but that in the fall of that year Iran "halted its nuclear weapons program." The document said that while U.S. agencies believed the Iranian government "at a minimum is keeping open the option to develop nuclear weapons," U.S. intelligence as of mid-2007 still had "moderate confidence" that it had not restarted weapons-development efforts.

    One of the two officials said that the Obama administration has now worked out a system in which intelligence agencies provide top policymakers, including the president, with regular updates on intelligence judgments like the conclusions in the 2007 Iran NIE. According to the two officials, the latest update to policymakers has been that as of now—two years after the period covered by the 2007 NIE—U.S. intelligence agencies still believe Iran has not resumed nuclear-weapons development work. "That's the conclusion, but it's one that—like every other—is constantly checked and reassessed, both to take account of new information and to test old assumptions," one of the officials told NEWSWEEK. It is not clear whether U.S. agencies' confidence in this judgment has grown at all since the 2007 statement.

    This latest U.S. intelligence-community assessment is potentially controversial for several reasons, not the least of which is that it is at odds with more alarming assessments propounded by key U.S. allies, most notably Israel. Officials of Israel's conservative-led government have been delivering increasingly dire assessments of Iran’s nuclear progress and have leaked shrill threats about a possible Israeli military attack on Iranian nuclear facilities.

    Former U.N. weapons inspector David Albright, an atomic-weapons expert who follows Iranian nuclear developments closely, said the U.S. government's current judgments will continue to provoke contention and debate. "People are looking at the same information and reaching different judgments," he said. "Given all the developments in Iran, these assessments are hard to believe with any certainty. Nobody's been able to bring total proof either way."

    Israel is not the only American ally that has circulated assessments that contradict the U.S. intelligence conclusion that Iran is not currently pursuing nuclear-bomb development. According to German court documents released earlier this year, Germany's foreign intelligence service, known as the BND, reported in 2008 that “development work on nuclear weapons can be observed in Iran even after 2003."

    A European counterproliferation official, who also requested anonymity, said that assessments like the one provided by the BND relied significantly on information collected by German and other intelligence agencies about efforts by suspected Iranian agents and front companies to purchase hardware and technology from Western firms that can be used to design or build nuclear weapons. Such equipment and know-how often has "dual uses"—both peaceful and military applications. But some Iranian purchases have appeared highly suspect. German authorities have been pursuing criminal charges against a German-Iranian businessman who allegedly tried to purchase for Tehran ultrahigh-speed cameras and radiation sensors that are built to withstand extreme heat—equipment that experts believe would be quite useful for nuclear-weapons development, though it could also be used for more benign purposes. The Institute for Science and International Security, run by Albright, recently published a paper on the German investigation.

    When it first was made public, the November 2007 NIE was criticized by American and Israeli hardliners for playing up conclusions about Iran's having stopped work on nuclear-weapons development while playing down Iranian advances in its efforts to produce highly enriched uranium, which is the most critical, but difficult to manufacture, element of a primitive nuclear bomb. The NIE said that even though Iran had halted its nuclear-weapons program, it had made "significant progress" during 2007 in installing centrifuges used in uranium enrichment, though U.S. analysts believed that, as a result of technical problems with these machines, Iran probably could not produce enough highly enriched uranium for a bomb before 2010 at the earliest. The Iranians have consistently claimed that they are enriching uranium only for civilian purposes. Low-enriched uranium, which is all that Iran has made so far, is a common fuel for civilian power plants.

    U.S. and European counterproliferation experts believe that Iran's centrifuge program has already produced enough low-enriched uranium, an essential precursor to the production of bomb-grade material, to provide feedstock to produce enough highly enriched uranium to make a bomb. However, that is an arduous and technically complicated process. Many U.S. and European experts say that Iran is still experiencing technical problems with centrifuges it would use to produce bomb-grade uranium, which could delay any Iranian bomb program for years.

    An Obama administration official says that top policymakers are being told that there is no significant disagreement among U.S. intelligence agencies and experts about the latest assessments regarding Iran's nuclear effort. That may encourage the White House's efforts to continue to try to engage Iran in diplomatic dialogue, including discussion of Iran's nuclear ambitions. A spokesperson for National Intelligence Director Dennis Blair's office, which is responsible for producing NIEs and updates on Iranian nukes, had no comment.

    Newsweek

    © 2009
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    Yeah, like our "Intelligence Communities" are never wrong, but at least they're not jumping the gun this time. my wish would be US ignores Israel, and let Israel and Iran figure it out. but that will never happen.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mushroom View Post
    Yeah, like our "Intelligence Communities" are never wrong, but at least they're not jumping the gun this time. my wish would be US ignores Israel, and let Israel and Iran figure it out. but that will never happen.
    I'm for that but there's a huge problem. Oil and the US Dollar. We want to control the middle east oil and we want it pegged to the US dollar. The only reason we invaded Iraq the second time was Saddam was selling his oil in Euros. Follow the money.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    Intelligence Agencies Say No New Nukes in Iran
    Calm down you bitches!!

    Are these the same intelligence agencies that said Iraq had WMD's?
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    Quote Originally Posted by sadaist View Post
    Are these the same intelligence agencies that said Iraq had WMD's?
    I never considered the Bush White House to be a very intelligent agency...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    I never considered the Bush White House to be a very intelligent agency...
    LMAO. You hid it so well too

    I personally don't trust anything our government tells us. Not that I think they are Big Brother or anything, I just take everything with a grain of salt.

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    This almost sounds like a word game to me. No "weapons" program... they've just been working on enriched uranium.

    Well, get real. The "weapon" isn't the bomb. My understanding is that the bomb is the easy part. The enriched uranium is the problem. Once you have that, it's downhill.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    The NIE said that even though Iran had halted its nuclear-weapons program, it had made "significant progress" during 2007 in installing centrifuges used in uranium enrichment, though U.S. analysts believed that, as a result of technical problems with these machines, Iran probably could not produce enough highly enriched uranium for a bomb before 2010 at the earliest.
    So they weren't working on the weapon lately...just the enriched uranium. For what purpose? Give me a break...

    And even if they were getting enriched uranium just for power, they could then finish the bomb easily. Once they have the uranium, it's game over. They're a nuclear power.


    And I love the 2010 part... as if that's way off in the future. I get the sense that Obama just doesn't want to deal with this at all, and is trying to push it off to the next guy. Well, this is going to come to a head one way or another in the next few years. Great fucking leader.
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    Weird...this story also came out today.



    AP NewsBreak: Nuke agency says Iran can make bomb


    AP NewsBreak: Nuke agency says Iran can make bomb - Yahoo! News

    By GEORGE JAHN, Associated Press Writer George Jahn, Associated Press Writer – 18 mins ago

    VIENNA – Iran experts at the U.N nuclear monitoring agency believe Tehran has the ability to make a nuclear bomb and worked on developing a missile system that can carry an atomic warhead, according to a confidential report seen by The Associated Press.

    The document drafted by senior officials at the International Atomic Energy Agency is the clearest indication yet that those officials share Washington's views on Iran's weapon-making capabilities and missile technology — even if they have not made those views public.

    The document, titled "Possible Military Dimension of Iran's Nuclear Program," appeared to be the so-called IAEA "secret annex" on Iran's alleged nuclear arms program that the U.S., France, Israel and other IAEA members say is being withheld by agency chief Mohamed ElBaradei — claims the nuclear watchdog denies.

    It is a record of IAEA findings since the agency began probing Iran's nuclear program in 2007 and has been continuously updated.

    The information in the document that is either new, more detailed or represents a more forthright conclusion than found in published IAEA reports includes:

    • The IAEA's assessment that Iran worked on developing a chamber inside a ballistic missile capable of housing a warhead payload "that is quite likely to be nuclear."

    • That Iran engaged in "probable testing" of explosives commonly used to detonate a nuclear warhead — a method known as a "full-scale hemispherical explosively driven shock system."

    • An assessment that Iran worked on developing a system "for initiating a hemispherical high explosive charge" of the kind used to help spark a nuclear blast.

    In another key finding, an excerpt notes: "The agency ... assesses that Iran has sufficient information to be able to design and produce a workable implosion nuclear device (an atomic bomb) based on HEU (highly enriched uranium) as the fission fuel."

    ElBaradei said in 2007 there was no "concrete evidence" that Iran was engaged in atomic weapons work — a source of friction with the United States, which has sought a hard-line stance on Tehran's nuclear ambitions.

    Responding to the AP report, the agency did not deny the existence of a confidential record of its knowledge and assessment of Iran's alleged attempts to make nuclear weapons. But an agency statement said the IAEA "has no concrete proof that there is or has been a nuclear weapon program in Iran."

    It cited ElBaradei as telling the agency's 35-nation governing board last week that "continuing allegations that the IAEA was withholding information on Iran are politically motivated and totally baseless."

    "Information from a variety of sources ... is critically assessed by a team of experts working collectively in accordance with the agency's practices," it said.

    "The IAEA reiterates that all relevant information and assessments that have gone through the above process have already been provided to the IAEA Board of Governors in reports of the director general."

    The document traces Iran's nuclear arms ambitions as far back as 1984, when current supreme leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei was president and Iran was at war with Iraq.

    At a top-level meeting at that time, according to the document, Khamenei endorsed a nuclear weapons program, saying "a nuclear arsenal would serve Iran as a deterrent in the hands of God's soldiers."

    He and other top Iranian leaders insist their country is opposed to nuclear weapons, describing them as contrary to Islam. They argue that Iran's uranium enrichment program and other activities are strictly for civilian purposes.

    Senior U.S. government officials have for years held the view that Iran has the expertise to make a bomb.

    The Obama administration said Thursday it was scrapping a Bush-era plan for a missile defense shield in Eastern Europe. Defense Secretary Robert Gates said the decision came after U.S. intelligence concluded that Iran's short- and medium-range missiles were developing more rapidly than previously projected and now pose a greater near-term threat than the intercontinental ballistic missiles addressed by the plan under former President George W. Bush.

    The AP saw two versions of the U.N. document — one running 67 pages that was described as being between six months and a year old, and the most recent one with more than 80 pages and growing because of constant updates. Both were tagged "confidential."

    A senior international official identified the document as one described by the U.S. and other IAEA member nations as a "secret annex" on Iran's nuclear program. The IAEA has called reports of a "secret annex" misinformation.

    The document is based on intelligence provided by member states, the agency's own investigations and input from outside nuclear arms experts under contract with the IAEA.

    Iran is under three sets of U.N. Security Council sanctions for refusing to freeze enrichment, the key to making both nuclear fuel and weapons-grade uranium. It is blocking IAEA attempts to probe allegations based on U.S., Israeli and other intelligence that it worked on a nuclear weapons program.

    Iran recently agreed to meet Oct. 1 with the U.S. and five other world powers seeking curbs on its atomic activities for the first time in more than a year. But Tehran says it is not prepared to discuss its nuclear activities.

    Presented with excerpts from the earlier paper, the senior international official said some of the wording and conclusions were outdated because they had been updated as recently as several weeks ago by IAEA experts probing Iran for signs it was — or is — hiding work on developing nuclear arms.

    At the same time, he confirmed the accuracy of the excerpts, including Khamenei's comments, as well as the IAEA assessment that Iran already had the expertise to make a nuclear bomb and was well-positioned to develop ways of equipping missiles with atomic warheads.

    An official from one of the 150 IAEA member nations who showed the AP the older version of the document said much of the information in it has either never been published or, if so, in less direct language within ElBaradei's periodic Iran reports first circulated to the agency's board and released to the public. That was confirmed by the senior international official.

    The officials providing the information both insisted on anonymity because of the confidentiality of the document, which they said was meant to be seen only by ElBaradei and his top lieutenants.

    In the case of Khamenei, there is only an oblique reference in the annex to ElBaradei's Iran report of May 26, 2008, saying the agency had asked Tehran for "information about a high level meeting in 1984 on reviving Iran's pre-revolution nuclear program."

    The international official said the Iranians denied that Khamenei backed the concept of nuclear weapons for his country.

    The agency said earlier this year that Iran had produced more than 1,000 kilograms — 2,200 pounds — of low-enriched, or fuel-grade, uranium. That is more than enough to produce sufficient highly enriched uranium for one weapon, should Iran choose to do so, and its enrichment capacities have expanded since then.

    The document concludes that while Iran is not yet able to equip its Shahab-3 medium-range missile with nuclear warheads, "it is likely that Iran will overcome problems," noting that "from the evidence presented to the agency, it is possible to suggest that ... Iran has conducted R&D (research and development) into producing a prototype system."

    The Shahab-3 missile has a range of up to 1,250 miles (2,000 kilometers), putting Israel within striking distance, and is capable of carrying a nuclear warhead.

    The document also says Iran already could trigger a nuclear blast through "methods of unconventional delivery" such as in a container on a cargo ship or carried on the trailer of a truck.

    ElBaradei last month urged Iran to cooperate with IAEA efforts to probe allegations of a weapons program.

    That Aug. 28 report noted that the information on Tehran's alleged weapons program shared by board members "need to be addressed by Iran with a view to removing the doubts ... about the exclusively peaceful nature of Iran's nuclear program."

    But in an indication that ElBaradei also is concerned, he departed from the cautious language characterizing his Iran reports last week.

    He told a closed meeting of the IAEA board that if the intelligence on Iran's alleged weapons program experiments is genuine, "there is a high probability that nuclear weaponization activities have taken place — but I should underline 'if' three times."

    The U.S., Israel, France and other nations critical of Iran's nuclear activities have for months said that ElBaradei was withholding a "secret annex" on Iran in the IAEA's electronic archives that they say goes far beyond the information and conclusions published by ElBaradei in his regular reports on Iran.

    French Foreign Minister Bernard Kouchner urged ElBaradei earlier this month to publish his confidential information, saying it contained "elements which enable us to ask about the reality of an atomic bomb." Israel's Haaretz daily cited unidentified government officials as demanding the same.

    Asked about the discrepancy between the agency denial that it was withholding information and the existence of the document, the senior international official said the report was at this point an "internal and constantly changing" record of what the IAEA knows and concludes about Iran. As such, he said, circulating it, even only to IAEA board members, would be counterproductive.

    Only after the agency has concluded its investigation and drawn final conclusions would it share the information with the board, he said, adding that he could not say when that would be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackflag View Post
    This almost sounds like a word game to me. No "weapons" program... they've just been working on enriched uranium.
    WTF are you talking about? They clearly mention a weaponizing program...

    Well, get real. The "weapon" isn't the bomb. My understanding is that the bomb is the easy part. The enriched uranium is the problem. Once you have that, it's downhill.
    Then you're sorely mistaken. Weaponizing the uranium and putting it into a deliverable package is the difficult part...

    So they weren't working on the weapon lately...just the enriched uranium. For what purpose? Give me a break...

    And even if they were getting enriched uranium just for power, they could then finish the bomb easily. Once they have the uranium, it's game over. They're a nuclear power.
    They're doing research into a nuclear weapon, just not at the break-neck speed some want us to piss our drawers about. And after Iraq, can you blame them?

    And I love the 2010 part... as if that's way off in the future. I get the sense that Obama just doesn't want to deal with this at all, and is trying to push it off to the next guy. Well, this is going to come to a head one way or another in the next few years. Great fucking leader.
    He didn't fucking write the report. Last time I checked, the President doesn't have complete control of everything....

    What do you want him to do about it? Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran?




    Ask yourself what you usually ask yourself on these questions. What would Ron Paul do?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadaist View Post
    Weird...this story also came out today.



    AP NewsBreak: Nuke agency says Iran can make bomb


    AP NewsBreak: Nuke agency says Iran can make bomb - Yahoo! News

    By GEORGE JAHN, Associated Press Writer George Jahn, Associated Press Writer – 18 mins ago

    VIENNA – Iran experts at the U.N nuclear monitoring agency believe Tehran has the ability to make a nuclear bomb and worked on developing a missile system that can carry an atomic warhead...

    This whole article sounds like Iran has a bunch of pieces that are pretty difficult to put together. And when's the last time you trusted the UN?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    And when's the last time you trusted the UN?
    About the same time I trusted government agencies.

    Either way, I just posted it because there is a lot of conflicting information coming out now. Makes it very difficult for whoever is in charge to make the appropriate decisions. Big chance for error.

    Whats the better error?

    Be aggressive only to find they did not have weapons?

    Be passive only to find they do have and use the weapons?

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    Kill em anyway
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    If any of you have the HDNet channel, this week's "Dan Rather Reports" has a good story about how the Iranians are getting help from the Brits in laundering American money to use for their nuclear program....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    Ask yourself what you usually ask yourself on these questions. What would Ron Paul do?
    I'm not sure what Ron Paul would do - probably ignore the whole thing. But just to be a dick, I'll similarly ask you: what do you think Obama would do about this, if he were in power? Your hero seems to be out of answers these days.

    Anyways, a lot of people who are more knowledgeable than me have said that the first step should be to disallow any U.S. bank, financial institution, or company from doing business with Iran, including third party countries and companies. The theory is that the country is already on the verge of revolt, and that would push it over the edge if they couldn't sell their oil or hold their cash anywhere related to the U.S. And Russia/China isn't enough to support them alone.

    I think that makes sense, but that's not what the oil people want.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Va Beach VH Fan View Post
    If any of you have the HDNet channel, this week's "Dan Rather Reports" has a good story about how the Iranians are getting help from the Brits in laundering American money to use for their nuclear program....

    Dan Rather? Now there's a reliable source for news.

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    I've always thought so, never mind when he was railroaded out by the Bush Air National Guard fiasco....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Va Beach VH Fan View Post
    I've always thought so, never mind when he was railroaded out by the Bush Air National Guard fiasco....
    Railroaded? Didn't that fag get caught fabricating a document, or something like that?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sadaist View Post
    About the same time I trusted government agencies.
    That's not what you said in 2003!

    Either way, I just posted it because there is a lot of conflicting information coming out now. Makes it very difficult for whoever is in charge to make the appropriate decisions. Big chance for error.

    Whats the better error?

    Be aggressive only to find they did not have weapons?

    Be passive only to find they do have and use the weapons?
    What if they have the weapons? If they have one nuke, Israel has about 300 more. Why would they "use" said weapon? They've had chemical weapons, and probably some biologicals, and yet somehow they haven't felt compelled to use them on Jews. Just on fellow (Sunni) Muslims during the Iran-Iraq War...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackflag View Post
    I'm not sure what Ron Paul would do - probably ignore the whole thing. But just to be a dick, I'll similarly ask you: what do you think Obama would do about this, if he were in power? Your hero seems to be out of answers these days.
    He is in power, and we won't know for months as he isn't an impulsive dickhead like his predecessor...

    Anyways, a lot of people who are more knowledgeable than me have said that the first step should be to disallow any U.S. bank, financial institution, or company from doing business with Iran, including third party countries and companies. The theory is that the country is already on the verge of revolt, and that would push it over the edge if they couldn't sell their oil or hold their cash anywhere related to the U.S. And Russia/China isn't enough to support them alone.
    Um, this is pretty much already the case...

    I think that makes sense, but that's not what the oil people want.
    The oil people have virtually no access to the Iranian fields which currently languish and are underdeveloped - sort of why their economy is fucked and the reason they import refined gasoline...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    Um, this is pretty much already the case...
    It's not currently the case at all. Look it up.


    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    The oil people have virtually no access to the Iranian fields which currently languish and are underdeveloped - sort of why their economy is fucked and the reason they import refined gasoline...
    You understand Iran is currently one of the top oil exporters, right?
    Last edited by Blackflag; 09-18-2009 at 12:06 AM.

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