When Work Doesn't Pay For The Middle Class

[Nickdfresh]

Or maybe the actual argument?

What's fucking the middle class over? Corporatists or the nonexistent "socialists" (who are actually New Deal reform capitalists that ironically saved modern capitalism)...

[Big Train]

OK, you can have it your way Nick. I'll respond to YOUR side arguments before you talk about anything in the original post. I'm sure that will make you more responsive.

What is fucking the middle class over? Combination of several factors: Excessive Taxation, retarded incentives (as mentioned above), globalization and a dearth of new industries.

Now, can you please tell me whether or not you feel that these negative incentives that discourage work are an issue. Do you or do you not agree?

[Nickdfresh]

OK, you can have it your way Nick. I'll respond to YOUR side arguments before you talk about anything in the original post. I'm sure that will make you more responsive.

What is fucking the middle class over? Combination of several factors: Excessive Taxation, retarded incentives (as mentioned above), globalization and a dearth of new industries.

Now, can you please tell me whether or not you feel that these negative incentives that discourage work are an issue. Do you or do you not agree?

Aside from the fact that the article is a purely theoretical exercise written by people who are themselves wealthy and in a magazine owned by a man who inherited much of his wealth.

But where do they cite any actual evidence that people "work less" in order to be put in a lower tax bracket? Indeed, how much control do people actually have over their own salaries? Do they turn down higher paying jobs and raises? I'm pretty sure most people are salaried and actually put in a good deal of overtime for free...

And their "math" for the 79% tax rate is just a fucking riot!

[thome]

Well, back in the original "real story" that is essentially the argument. NOT working after a certain income threshold provides your family with more of what it needs (as you qualify for government gimmes), whereas earning more actually provides more of a burden for you and your family and provides less benefits. Teddy would tell the worker not to work under this current system and get his living wage.

Very True!!! don't listen to -The Front- I ain't telling you anything do not know.. BT.

The cut off was 45K, when I first started thinking about income and how much do I want to work compared to my taxable income and income after taxes.



59K is a damn good wage and you can stay under the radar for the different Levels of taxation .

Really good for a two income houshold both earning 59K.



Thanks I bet to Republican forethought.

One thing I realized early is I need to skip from 45K to, I think it was around 375K a year to get back on the benifit trail.

Or I would simply be showing a large gross and my net buying power would be decreasing by percents within the value of my dollar earned and taxed.

So, it is true the taxes are heavy on the middle upper class earners.

Hardley at all on the majority of Americans that earn below 50K or the Millionaire s..mart sumbitchez...

They never say this when they want to scare people into voting for Lowering Taxes.

What do they never say..?? ...That 75 % of americans don't earn within the levels to benifit a lowering of taxes,........ they design it that way.

Fight The Power!

[sadaist]

When Bill Gates, Warren Buffett, and John "Jay" Rockefeller IV all agree that they (three of the richest guys on the planet) don't pay enough fucking taxes, I really don't see how anybody can make a logical counter argument to that.

I thought we were talking about people who are making middle class type money.

[FORD]

I thought we were talking about people who are making middle class type money.

And if the rich paid the taxes they SHOULD be paying, the middle class wouldn't get stuck with the tax burden, right?

[Big Train]

[B]
When Work Doesn't Pay For The Middle Class - Forbes.com


David Atkins, a 42-year-old Westwood, Mass. MIT grad, nonpracticing lawyer and father of three, was laid off from his tech manager's job at a young Internet firm last December. In May, when he took a contract job managing a state Web site, he gave up combined state and federal subsidies that paid 93% of his $1,313-a-month Cobra premium. (He also gave up $728 a week in unemployment benefits.) Atkins' new health plan, with a much higher deductible, costs him $950 a month. He took the job because he likes to work and wants to keep his skills sharp. But he concedes that the net economic benefit, at least in the short term, isn't compelling.

As Atkins mastered the arcane details of the Cobra subsidies, he blogged tips for laid-off Massachusetts residents seeking to stay insured. Among them: If you get freelance work, don't lie about it--that's a crime--but schedule your work "strategically" so that you can collect unemployment one or more week each month and remain eligible for the insurance subsidy.


David Atkins' wife, Jennifer, 39, a lawyer, decided to stay home after their first child was born. She compared her aftertax take with the high cost of quality day care and concluded, "I didn't want to work just to pay somebody else to raise my children for me." When they were both working, the couple's income approached $200,000--meaning they earned too much to get the child credits or any deduction for the interest on Jennifer's $65,000 in college and law school loans.

"Don't think the American public is stupid," says Cheryl Morse, a tax practitioner in eastern Massachusetts with both middle- income and affluent clients. "People call me and say, 'What's the most I can earn before I lose the earned income tax credit?' [They] may not understand marginal rates, but they're shocked when they lose the college or child credits. You hear all the time, 'The harder I work, the more they take away from me.'"

You could start here Nick , IN the article.

I'm glad you find actual math hilarious...

[Terry]

The broader (and more important ) question to be asked is more along the lines of:

Why do so many people claim capitalism (and, by extension, the US) is the greatest system known to civilization, when the essence of it keeps the larger portion of the population endowed just enough to keep from going broke, but usually not quite endowed enough to stop working like some rat on a wheel (and, by extension, making some rich person richer) for the bulk of their lives?

THIS is a far more useful notion to ponder than some cunt who used to make 120 grand, now makes half of that and has to, I dunno, drink Folgers instead of gorging on Starbucks Frappucinos now that she's ONLY making 60k a year. Along with that question, we may well ask why these various CEOs and elected representatives are making the killings they are financially in reference to the state we find our economy in. Are these people really worth what WE are paying them, or did they attain their status and sense of entitlement through old-boy networking most of their lives combined with being a member of the lucky sperm club?

[Blackflag]

The broader (and more important ) question to be asked is more along the lines of:

Why do so many people claim capitalism (and, by extension, the US) is the greatest system known to civilization, when the essence of it keeps the larger portion of the population endowed just enough to keep from going broke, but usually not quite endowed enough to stop working like some rat on a wheel (and, by extension, making some rich person richer) for the bulk of their lives?

Because this system provides the opportunity to break out from that status, and other system don't have that opportunity at all.

Are these people really worth what WE are paying them,

If you're talking about politcians, fine. But if you're talking about the person in the article, what she makes is hers. You're not paying her.

or did they attain their status and sense of entitlement through old-boy networking most of their lives combined with being a member of

"Old boy network" to get some middle management job at Lord & Taylor? Please. Get your head out of the trailer park, and go to college.

the lucky sperm club?

If you mean that you're genetically too stupid to try and get a good job...ok, I'm sorry to hear that. But if you're saying everybody who makes $60 or $120 was born in the lap of luxury... well, please. You can't really be that fucking stupid.

Either that, or you've been listening to Ford's shit too long. Go out in the world. See what else is out there besides 7-11 jobs in Buffalo.

[Terry]

If you're gonna ask questions about class and money, you may as well go for the larger picture and attempt to illuminate what comprises the class structure in this country (as well as WHY it is so) rather than get bogged down in stories of individual slices of the class structure, or focus on a particular degree of class.

That's the way I see it, anyway.

It seems you totally missed the points I made in my first post, since your counterpoints are little more than setting up Straw Men to be knocked down...not so effective when the Straw Men you knocked down were only mentioned by yourself. And no, I'm really not that fucking stupid.

Spend a bit less time quoting other people's articles, do some of your own thinking, re-read what I originally post.

Honestly, what use does anyone have for your interpretations of a Forbes.com article?

Worthless cunt.

[Blackflag]

Strawman? You asked why capitalism is preferable, and I told you why. You can disagree if you like, but that doesn't make it a "strawman."

Similarly, you decided to claim that a lady working at Lord & Taylor must have been born with a silver spoon in her mouth. I said that's fucking ignorant. Again, disagree if you like. But don't call it a "strawman."

If you aren't happy with what you make, go to college. Again, that's the beauty of this system. Now go eat a dick, douchebag.

[Nitro Express]

I want to be like Timothy Gietner. He gets caught for not paying taxes and he doesn't get in trouble. I guess when you are Secretary of the Treasury Dept. you can get away with it since you are over the IRS.

[sadaist]

Why do so many people claim capitalism (and, by extension, the US) is the greatest system known to civilization,

Why do so many socialists refuse to admit that they are socialists? Like it's a bad word. If that's what you support, just say it. They want the country to become more socialist, but not call it that.

[GAR]

And now for the real story, not the spin from Steve Forbes, tax dodging billionaire.......

bluh bluh bluh

FUCK OFF, PAKI~!! Think anyone reads all that shit past your judgemental setup?

[standin]

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