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Thread: Are Iran Nuke Claims Alarmist Like the WMDs Fiasco?

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    Are Iran Nuke Claims Alarmist Like the WMDs Fiasco?

    NYT: Iran nukes claim compared with Iraq
    Nuclear claim has profound differences from 2002 WMD charge

    By Scott Shane
    The New York Times
    updated 12:17 a.m. ET, Wed., Sept . 30, 2009

    WASHINGTON - To many Americans, Secretary of State Colin L. Powell’s February 2003 speech to the United Nations on Iraq’s unconventional weapons was powerfully persuasive. It was a dazzling performance, featuring satellite images and intercepts of Iraqi communications, delivered by one of the most trusted figures in public life.

    Then a long and costly war began, and the country discovered that the assertions that Iraq possessed illicit weapons had been completely unfounded.

    Now the United States’ confrontation with Iran over its nuclear program is heating up, with the disclosure last week that the Iranian government is building a second uranium enrichment complex it had not previously acknowledged.

    The question is inevitable: Is the uproar over the secret plant near Qum another rush to judgment, based on ambiguous evidence, spurred on by a desire to appear tough toward a loathed regime? In other words, is the United States repeating the mistakes of 2002?

    Antiwar activists, with a fool-me-once skepticism, watch the dispute over the Qum plant with an alarmed sense of déjà vu. And some specialists on arms control and Iran are asking for more evidence and warning against hasty conclusions.

    But while the similarities between 2002, when the faulty intelligence estimates were produced, and 2009 are unmistakable, the differences are profound.

    This time, by all accounts, there is no White House-led march toward war. Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates has said that military action would merely delay Iranian nuclear weapons for one to three years, and there is no evidence that President Obama wants to add a third war to his responsibilities.

    This time, too, the dispute over facts is narrower. Iran has admitted the existence of nuclear enrichment facilities, and on Tuesday it acknowledged that it was building the plant underground, next to a military base, for its protection. Still, Iran disputes claims that the plant is part of a weapons program.

    American intelligence officials say that they learned a traumatic lesson from the Iraqi weapons debacle, and that assessments of Iran’s nuclear program are hedged and not influenced by political or policy considerations.

    “We’d let the country down, and we wanted to make sure it would never happen again,” said Thomas Fingar, who before the Iraq war led the State Department’s intelligence bureau, which dissented from the inaccurate claims about Iraq’s nuclear program. Dissent from majority views in intelligence assessments is now encouraged, and assumptions are spelled out, said Mr. Fingar, who is now at Stanford University. “Now, it’s much more of a transparent tussle of ideas,” he said.

    That tussle produced a surprising conclusion in a 2007 national intelligence assessment on Iran’s nuclear program: that Tehran’s work on designing a warhead was halted in 2003. Today, the American view is that the design work has still not resumed, a more conservative stance than that of some close allies, who say they believe the work has resumed or never stopped at all, including Germany, Israel and, according to a report Tuesday by The Financial Times, Britain.

    In assessing the construction near Qum, the Central Intelligence Agency “formed its conclusions carefully and patiently over time, weighing and testing each piece of information that came in,” said Paul Gimigliano, an agency spokesman. “This was a major intelligence success.” Not all are persuaded. Glenn Greenwald, an author and a left-leaning blogger for the online magazine Salon, called the parallels with the charges that Iraq had so-called weapons of mass destruction in 2002 “substantial and disturbing.”

    “The administration is making inflammatory claims about another country’s W.M.D. program and intentions without providing any evidence,” he said.

    Gary Sick, an expert on Iran at Columbia University, said that ever since 1992, American officials had claimed that Iran was just a few years away from a nuclear bomb. Like Saddam Hussein, the clerical government in Iran is “despised,” he said, leading to worst-case assumptions.

    “In 2002, it seemed utterly naïve to believe Saddam didn’t have a program,” Mr. Sick said. Now, the notion that Iran is not racing to build a bomb is similarly excluded from serious discussion, he said.

    Mr. Sick, like some in the intelligence community, said he believed that Iran might intend to stop short of building a weapon while creating “breakout capability” — the ability to make a bomb in a matter of months in the future. That chain of events might allow room for later intervention.


    Without actually constructing a bomb, Iran could gain the influence of being an almost nuclear power, without facing the repercussions that would ensue if it finished the job.

    Greg Thielmann, an intelligence analyst in the State Department before the Iraq war, said he believed that the Iran intelligence assessments were far more balanced, in part because there was not the urgent pressure from the White House to reach a particular conclusion, as there was in 2002. But he said he was bothered by what he said was an exaggerated sense of crisis over the Iranian nuclear issue.

    “Some people are saying time’s running out and we have to act by the end of the year,” said Mr. Thielmann, now a senior fellow at the Arms Control Association. “I’ve been arguing that we have years, not months. The facts argue for a calmer approach.”

    David Albright, a former nuclear arms inspector who is now the president of the Institute for Science and International Security, said Iran’s “well-documented history of undeclared nuclear programs” lent credibility to American suspicions.

    Still, Mr. Albright said, the government must provide more information to back up its charges. On the Qum plant, for example, he asked, do intelligence agencies have evidence that it was intended to produce weapons-grade uranium, or merely that it could accommodate the equipment for such a purpose?

    “They have to show their hand,” he said of American intelligence agencies. “Or we don’t have to believe them.”

    In many dissections of the blunders before the Iraq war, the news media, including The New York Times, came in for a share of the criticism, for repeating Bush administration claims about Iraq without sufficient scrutiny or skepticism.

    Mr. Greenwald, the Salon blogger, said he found in the coverage about the Qum plant little improvement in the performance of the press. “There is virtually no questioning of whether this facility could be used for civilian purposes, or whether Iran’s reporting it more than a year before operability demonstrates its good faith,” he said.

    Greg Mitchell, whose 2008 book “So Wrong for So Long” analyzed the media’s failures on Iraq, said he would give the Iran coverage better marks. “I don’t see the same level of blindly accepting what the hawks are saying,” said Mr. Mitchell, editor of the trade publication Editor & Publisher. “I think the press has learned some lessons.”

    This article, "In dispute with Iran, path to Iraq is in spotlight," first appeared in The New York Times.

    Copyright © 2009 The New York Times
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    The whole thing is a con I fear to ramp up tension to keep the populations onside and the war economy functioning.

    Iran hasn't broken any rules at all and is in fact many months ahead of schedule in inviting in the inspectors. Yet Obama talked about obeying the rules like everybody else. Who is everyone else? Who punished Pakistan for getting nukes? What sanctions have been imposed on India?

    When exactly are the weapons inspectors going into Israel?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshmeister View Post
    The whole thing is a con I fear to ramp up tension to keep the populations onside and the war economy functioning.

    Iran hasn't broken any rules at all and is in fact many months ahead of schedule in inviting in the inspectors. Yet Obama talked about obeying the rules like everybody else. Who is everyone else? Who punished Pakistan for getting nukes? What sanctions have been imposed on India?

    When exactly are the weapons inspectors going into Israel?
    It's not so cut and dry. Iran wants nukes. Can you blame them? Pakistahn, India, and Israel have them. Then you have NATO invading and taking over their neighbors on both sides.

    Then you have the Zionist Jews which pretty much run the European Union and The United States. Why should they trust Obama when his White House staff is full of Zionists?
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    the toothless "Sanctions"

    apparently sanctions mean nothing to many...
    [2001] ...according to Press Trust of India, Indian Finance Minister Yashwant Sinha welcomed the sanctions’ waiver but said, “As far as the Indian economy itself was concerned, except for certain defense supplies, sanctions had no meaning.”


    Bush Waives Nuclear-Related Sanctions on India, Pakistan | Arms Control Association
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    It's all about keeping the military industrial complex chugging and grabbing the oil fields and pipelines. This whole process has destabalized the world geopolitical situation. Now you have India, China, and Russia talking about having a joint currency between them. I see large chunks of the world consolidating and where is this all going to go? Another world war? How will this one be fought and who's crazy enough to inflame it? As Israel and NATO continue their stupidity the rest of the world is consolidating and hating us.

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    It seems that NATO think they can take over the world with technology. Europe and North America are no longer the manufacturing centers they once were. The powers that be have something that is making them cocky and confident. All I know is the poker game is a dangerous one and I wonder what's up NATO's sleeve?

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    before US invaded Iraq, Saddam wanted it to appear to Iran as if they had a program for WMD's to deter attack. at the same time, Saddam was telling US that Iraq did not have a WMD program. this strategy can explain Iran's ambiguity, if there is any. otherwise, Iran is telling the truth... they want Israel wiped out and they don't have a nuclear weapons program.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mushroom View Post
    before US invaded Iraq, Saddam wanted it to appear to Iran as if they had a program for WMD's to deter attack. at the same time, Saddam was telling US that Iraq did not have a WMD program. this strategy can explain Iran's ambiguity, if there is any. otherwise, Iran is telling the truth... they want Israel wiped out and they don't have a nuclear weapons program.
    If you can't afford nukes, you go the biological and chemical weapons route. This is what Saddam did. Saddam knew if he dabbled in nukes he would never get the system built and it would also give the US an excuse to bomb and invade him. He thought if he stayed away from nukes he would be safe from US invasion, little did he know...

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    Saddam did make an attempt at waging an economic war. He knew if Opec started trading oil in Euros this would hurt the US badly. Ironically the middle east oil producing countries know they can bring the US to an economic standstill by spiking the price of oil but ironically we are open to this blackmail because the power players make their money keeping us on oil and the military contracts to police the middle east. So these assholes walk a fine line to make money; even if it endangers the whole world to do so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nitro Express View Post
    It seems that NATO think they can take over the world with technology. Europe and North America are no longer the manufacturing centers they once were. The powers that be have something that is making them cocky and confident. All I know is the poker game is a dangerous one and I wonder what's up NATO's sleeve?

    Dude, WTF are you reading? NATO doesn't even want to control Afghanistan...

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    Last edited by Nickdfresh; 09-30-2009 at 10:29 PM.
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