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Thread: Buy a $15,000 Policy or Go to Jail

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    Buy a $15,000 Policy or Go to Jail

    JCT Confirms Failure to Comply with Democrats’ Mandate Can Lead to 5 Years in Jail

    November 06, 2009



    Today, Ranking Member of the House Ways and Means Committee Dave Camp (R-MI) released a letter from the non-partisan Joint Committee on Taxation (JCT) confirming that the failure to comply with the individual mandate to buy health insurance contained in the Pelosi health care bill (H.R. 3962, as amended) could land people in jail. The JCT letter makes clear that Americans who do not maintain “acceptable health insurance coverage” and who choose not to pay the bill’s new individual mandate tax (generally 2.5% of income), are subject to numerous civil and criminal penalties, including criminal fines of up to $250,000 and imprisonment of up to five years.

    In response to the JCT letter, Camp said: “This is the ultimate example of the Democrats’ command-and-control style of governing – buy what we tell you or go to jail. It is outrageous and it should be stopped immediately.”

    Key excerpts from the JCT letter appear below:

    “H.R. 3962 provides that an individual (or a husband and wife in the case of a joint return) who does not, at any time during the taxable year, maintain acceptable health insurance coverage for himself or herself and each of his or her qualifying children is subject to an additional tax.” [page 1]

    - - - - - - - - - -

    “If the government determines that the taxpayer’s unpaid tax liability results from willful behavior, the following penalties could apply…” [page 2]

    - - - - - - - - - -


    “Criminal penalties

    Prosecution is authorized under the Code for a variety of offenses. Depending on the level of the noncompliance, the following penalties could apply to an individual:

    • Section 7203 – misdemeanor willful failure to pay is punishable by a fine of up to $25,000 and/or imprisonment of up to one year.

    • Section 7201 – felony willful evasion is punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment of up to five years.” [page 3]

    When confronted with this same issue during its consideration of a similar individual mandate tax, the Senate Finance Committee worked on a bipartisan basis to include language in its bill that shielded Americans from civil and criminal penalties. The Pelosi bill, however, contains no similar language protecting American citizens from civil and criminal tax penalties that could include a $250,000 fine and five years in jail.

    “The Senate Finance Committee had the good sense to eliminate the extreme penalty of incarceration. Speaker Pelosi’s decision to leave in the jail time provision is a threat to every family who cannot afford the $15,000 premium her plan creates. Fortunately, Republicans have an alternative that will lower health insurance costs without raising taxes or cutting Medicare,” said Camp.

    According to the Congressional Budget Office the lowest cost family non-group plan under the Speaker’s bill would cost $15,000 in 2016.


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    LOL Elvis is now been reduced to posting GOP congressman fuckwit press releases as "information."

    Gee, but, what about the "Public Option?" You can actually have health insurance for little or no money. So why the fuck would one go to jail for not buying an artificially inflated policy from one of the insurance companies donating big money to 'Member who is Rank, Dave Camp' charge $15K when you can get it for almost nothing?
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    What are you rambling about ??

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    I do NOT endorse any bill with mandatory corporate insurance in it.

    That said, it apparently just passed the house.
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    Looks like it did, FORD.....not a big fan of any type of mandatory but will what and see what really becomes of this.
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    Let's hope the senate votes it down.
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    I was gonna vote on a bill, but then I got high.....

    <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/McG5qPl0Imc&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/McG5qPl0Imc&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

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    Stuff like that is just bad PR , especially in a recession. Someone will be threatened with jail time, or be sentenced and someone like Hannity will be there to run with it for weeks. She keeps this shit up, goodbye majority.
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    Except this is yet another example of Elvis posting official site suck dick data of a politician...

    When you're done blowing bribe taking politicians by posting their propaganda, let us know...
    Last edited by Nickdfresh; 11-08-2009 at 08:22 PM.

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    Not really, it is in the bill no?

    There are significant grounds there for a legal challenge, as never before has anyone been required to buy something as a condition of being a citizen. That's a fundamental operating change in our society.

    The counter argument of "well you have to buy car ins." doesn't really hold, since that is not a fundamental right to drive. To be required to buy something to be a citizen in good standing is entirely new.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Train View Post
    Not really, it is in the bill no?

    There are significant grounds there for a legal challenge, as never before has anyone been required to buy something as a condition of being a citizen. That's a fundamental operating change in our society.

    The counter argument of "well you have to buy car ins." doesn't really hold, since that is not a fundamental right to drive. To be required to buy something to be a citizen in good standing is entirely new.
    Basically the gun to our heads is the government and what we are forced to buy is the corporation. This should raise a red flag as you said.

    What we really need is price caps of catastrophic care. Simplify medical billing (Medicare is a major culpret in these costs). Have a loser pays policy regarding law suits. This needs to be done intelligently and systematically. We don't need to turn the whole system over to the government and special corporate interests.

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    No, you don't have to drive, but try getting around without it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by hideyoursheep View Post
    No, you don't have to drive, but try getting around without it.
    I didn't have a car when I lived in New York City or Hong Kong. I got around fine. Hell, I could get around Hong Kong faster than I can in Seattle stuck in a traffic jam.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickdfresh View Post
    Except this is yet another example of Elvis posting official site suck dick data of a politician...

    When you're done blowing bribe taking politicians by posting their propaganda, let us know...
    The guy has been bought by the health insurance industry.

    Dave Camp - Metavid

    Who matters most him, the guys that give him hundreds of thousands every year or the person who can't get medical insurance?

    His top 3 donators


    Health Professionals $371,791
    Insurance $313,279
    Pharmaceuticals/Health Products $235,295

    And that was before the recent 100s of millions in bribes that have been offered.
    Last edited by Seshmeister; 11-09-2009 at 07:16 AM.
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    Yeah!

    The system is screwed before it can begin...

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    It's pretty sick if you think about it.

    The health care companies pay the politicians to do what they want and then pass the bill on to the US people. All these millions being used to pay off the politicians is money that's come from your premiums.


    The premiums will now go up to cover all the increased lobbying over the last year.

    Game set and match!

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    While I am certain our healthcare system sucks fucking ass (Americans pay twice as much for healthcare as any other country on Earth), I think the idiot that came up with the notion that people who do not sign up for health insurance should be jailed should be shot.

    Did the cocksuckers that came up with that idea grow up in Communist-era Soviet Union?

    IF such a thing becomes law, that is almost enough to make me shut off my health insurance, then proclaim publicly that I refuse to pay for insurance, just so the fuckasses will arrest me.

    I predict someone will do that (again, if it becomes law), and upon having their day in court, I would bet that part of the law would be found unconstitutional somehow.

    You CANNOT FORCE someone to buy health insurance if they do not want it!

    PERIOD! END OF FUCKING STORY!
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    Unreal....

    Insurance companies win again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardrock69 View Post
    While I am certain our healthcare system sucks fucking ass (Americans pay twice as much for healthcare as any other country on Earth), I think the idiot that came up with the notion that people who do not sign up for health insurance should be jailed should be shot.
    I agree.

    They could only get the insurance corporation owned votes by wetting their beaks with this compulsory bullshit.

    No one would ever come up with this system from scratch.

    The sensible obvious option would be to extend medicare to everyone and if people wanted something better they would be free to keep their insurance but the people that own your politicians can't allow that to happen.
    Last edited by Seshmeister; 11-09-2009 at 01:04 PM.

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    With a public option for people who can't afford one of the plans, why wouldn't someone sign up?

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    There is no real public option in the house bill. Jellyfish Pelosi and Steny WHORE let them strip it out. Instead, they have some weak piece of shit (probably controlled by the insurance nazis, so it's not even public) that maybe 2&#37; of the uninsured MIGHT be able to get around 2015 or so.

    And the Senate bill is even worse. The House bill was supposed to be the better of the two.

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    Sesh...

    The voice of reason...



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    Quote Originally Posted by Seshmeister View Post
    .

    The sensible obvious option would be to extend medicare to everyone and if people wanted something better they would be free to keep their insurance but the people that own your politicians can't allow that to happen.
    Dennis Kucinich floated that idea years ago...

    Medicare Part E [everyone]

    It's a no-brainer, which means even ELVIS should understand the merits....
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    Looking at his Wikki page Kucinich looks as though he's been right about a lot of stuff.

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    It cracks me up that people think the US Government can actually provide decent healthcare. The US Government is broke thanks to the Federal Reserve enabling the politicians to spend, spend, spend. The rich bankers get bailed out and the working class gets screwed. They have outsourced the real production economy and have used monitary manipulation to keep the financial economy going. The US could get real sloppy due to the dollar being the world's reserve currency but that game is up. The rest of the world no longer trusts the dollar.

    Once that gig is up the US government can't provide shit including healthcare. Meanwhile the bankers who fucked us Bernie Madoff style want a marxist styled government because once they steal all the real assets that's what they historically bring in. I trust healthcare from the US government as much as I trust it from some Bannana Republic dictator.

    What's the next scheme? We are going to buy a GM car?

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    Most Americans are owned by the bank. Their homes are owned by the bank. Their cars are owned by the bank. They owe on credit cards big time. The banks also own the government now and they own where most people work. Get it? Now the paper money that empowers the banks is becoming worthless and they are losing their paper power. They know this so now they have to grab REAL power. Political power. Which it doesn't matter if the state owns everything Marxists style because as long as they are in control who gives a fuck? One reason China has always given David Rockefeller a hard on. As George Carlin pointed out. We have owners. They own our ass. Unless you have equity, you don't have shit.

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    So actually none of the good sounding legislation is going to do a thing for you. Your healthcare costs won't change but it empowers the government to come after you if you don't play their game. So actually you lose freedom of choice based on a false promise. You doctor loses the freedom to provide free healthcare out of the goodness of his heart because that will be against the law. You will be forced to pay for your healthcare on their terms or go to jail. Nice. I can't believe people want this shit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FORD View Post
    There is no real public option in the house bill. Jellyfish Pelosi and Steny WHORE let them strip it out. Instead, they have some weak piece of shit (probably controlled by the insurance nazis, so it's not even public) that maybe 2% of the uninsured MIGHT be able to get around 2015 or so.

    And the Senate bill is even worse. The House bill was supposed to be the better of the two.
    I'm glad you see the truth. These people can't be trusted. Of course the current pricing in the system is obscene but is consolidating control of it over to a bunch of crooks the answer? Basically the economy is shot, the dollar is doomed, and all we have left is our Constitutional Rights. We sell those out in these desperate times we have NOTHING. We need to turn on the bankers, run them out, arrest them for fraud, and take our government back. Then we can work on the long process of rebuilding the US economy but if we get duped by these assholes, we lose EVERYTHING.

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    When Obama talked in Montana about healthcare he actually said the insurance companies were all for it. What popped into my head is the guy just showed us his hand. I mean Obama or Pelosi are both such lying corporate whores. They will thank you for your vote by stabbing you in the back. With Obama we are getting McCain styled foreign policy and forced big pharma/big insurance health care. It's actually the biggest Republican nightmare a real "for the people" Democrat could think of.

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    Interview with the President: Jail Time for Those without Health Care Insurance? - Political Punch

    I mean wow...no hesitation on the "everyone has to buy ins" BS...

    During an exclusive interview with ABC News’ Jake Tapper today, President Obama said that penalties are appropriate for people who try to “free ride” the health care system but stopped short of endorsing the threat of jail time for those who refuse to pay a fine for not having insurance.

    “What I think is appropriate is that in the same way that everybody has to get auto insurance and if you don't, you're subject to some penalty, that in this situation, if you have the ability to buy insurance, it's affordable and you choose not to do so, forcing you and me and everybody else to subsidize you, you know, there's a thousand dollar hidden tax that families all across America are -- are burdened by because of the fact that people don't have health insurance, you know, there's nothing wrong with a penalty.”

    Under the House bill those who can afford to buy insurance and don’t’ pay a fine. If the refuse to pay that fine there’s a threat – as with a lot of tax fines – of jail time. The Senate removed that provision in the Senate Finance Committee.

    Mr. Obama said penalties have to be high enough for people to not game the system, but it’s also important to not be “so punitive” that people who are having a hard time find themselves suddenly worse off, thus why hardship exemptions have been built in the legislation.

    “I think the general broad principle is simply that people who are paying for their health insurance aren't subsidizing folks who simply choose not to until they get sick and then suddenly they expect free health insurance. That's -- that's basic concept of responsibility that I think most Americans abide by,” Mr. Obama said, “penalties are appropriate for people who try to free ride the system and force others to pay for their health insurance.”

    The President said that he didn’t think the question over the appropriateness of possible jail time is the “biggest question” the House and Senate are facing right now.

  37. #31
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    And. So?

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    You'd think he would have a more well thought out position (provided by Axelrod) on this legally dicey and electorate angering point.

    But yea, so what...

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    The only way for a mandate to be fair is if they expand Medicare (i.e. a single payer system) and all the money paid in is going to that system itself, not to shareholders and CEOs.

    Some piece of shit who makes $57,000 a fucking HOUR doesn't need my money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Train View Post
    You'd think he would have a more well thought out position (provided by Axelrod) on this legally dicey and electorate angering point.

    But yea, so what...

    I'll let you know mine when you let us know what yours is...

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    OK Axelrod,

    Mine is that it is not an enforceable provision and would be challenged in court and thrown out. And it is bad PR.

    And yours?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Train View Post
    OK Axelrod,

    Mine is that it is not an enforceable provision and would be challenged in court and thrown out. And it is bad PR.

    And yours?
    Who the fuck is "Axelrod?" David Axelrod?"

    How has it worked in Mass?

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    Do you read the posts prior to the current one, or do you just freak the fuck out, completely unaware of what was said before?

    How has it worked in Mass. Mixed results at best and Romney was an idiot for going in that direction.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Train View Post
    Do you read the posts prior to the current one, or do you just freak the fuck out, completely unaware of what was said before?
    I'm pretty clearly not the the one "freak(ing) the fuck out" here, Nancy...

    That would involve projection....

    How has it worked in Mass. Mixed results at best and Romney was an idiot for going in that direction.
    Mixed results, maybe. But Mittens was your best GOP candidate last election cycle, and mixed results is still better than the status quo fail....

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    Read from post 32 on...we can wait. Your freakout was "Who the fuck, David Axelrod".

    And for the record, I'm not republican. Something I've mentioned to you (and yea it's not your problem to remember) countless times , so you might want to stop projecting so much yourself champ.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Train View Post
    Read from post 32 on...we can wait. Your freakout was "Who the fuck, David Axelrod".
    I asked a simple fucking question. Am I David Fucking Axelrod or not?

    I think you're the one "freaking out," Sarah...

    And for the record, I'm not republican. Something I've mentioned to you (and yea it's not your problem to remember) countless times , so you might want to stop projecting so much yourself champ.
    Oh, oh-kay. Will do! Yet you still voted for Bush.

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